Does anyone know of a webpage that delineates the evolution of successive Shimano models, i.e what changed from the Stradic 4000FG, FH, FI, FJ, FK?
thanks,
Rob
Maybe philaroman knows, but I don't know of a website. I still have my old ones, and an old Sustain. Never felt the need to upgrade so didn't keep up.
I can do Stradics, maybe F to FH w/ some FI verbal abuse on top
why do you ask?
if, like me, you like a nice frankenreel w/ different features yanked from different eras,
(heck, I'm not satisfied w/ my StradiSymeHara... I'm goin' cross-brand to make a ShimAbuKuma. LOL)
it might be easier to ask about specific features/characteristics
& I/others may have ideas where to look
you'd have to plow through the schematics...... :-\
I thought there might be some significant changes through the the models, better gearing, drag system, things that might make one preferable over another, especially on the "pre-fished" market.
Only 2 things I dislike on my fj's(circa 2011-2012?): two saltwater corrosion magnets; the alum. sleeve in the line roller assembly and the AR bearing on-off shaft(called by Shimano a "cam", connects to the AR on-off switch to the AR). Both have been replaced, are difficult to get to, and need to be checked every couple of uses.
The entire chain works in a lock-step progression from the top down. Same as their bicycle parts. Each time the flagship Stella steps forward, there's a trickle-down of parts and ways of assembling things. As a result the Stradic FK is quite probably on par with a pre-2008 Stella, and the current Saragosa SW is arguably not far from a post 2008 one.
Quote from: Recoil Rob on March 29, 2020, 12:16:12 AM
Does anyone know of a webpage that delineates the evolution of successive Shimano models, i.e what changed from the Stradic 4000FG, FH, FI, FJ, FK?
thanks,
Rob
Have you looked at Alan Hawk site? By trawling through the site you may find a lot of the answers you are looking for. He recently for example did a very good review of all the various versions of the Daiwa BG and related series
that's good advice: whatever high-end Shimano's AH reviews, he does a thorough discussion of individual features/systems that span many models
Quote from: boon on March 30, 2020, 01:42:16 AM
The entire chain works in a lock-step progression from the top down. Same as their bicycle parts. Each time the flagship Stella steps forward, there's a trickle-down of parts and ways of assembling things. As a result the Stradic FK is quite probably on par with a pre-2008 Stella, and the current Saragosa SW is arguably not far from a post 2008 one.
however right you may be about those particular models, "beneficial trickle-down" is NOT "in a lock-step progression from the top down." there are plenty examples of inferior systems trickling UP from older/cheaper platforms, as cost-cutting measures... you have to pore over schematics, reviews, Forums, etc. IN ADVANCE, to take full advantage of the "beneficial trickle-down" -- otherwise, you get TRICKLED ON by the marketing spin-doctors
Quote from: philaroman on March 30, 2020, 02:21:52 PM
that's good advice: whatever high-end Shimano's AH reviews, he does a thorough discussion of individual features/systems that span many models
Quote from: boon on March 30, 2020, 01:42:16 AM
The entire chain works in a lock-step progression from the top down. Same as their bicycle parts. Each time the flagship Stella steps forward, there's a trickle-down of parts and ways of assembling things. As a result the Stradic FK is quite probably on par with a pre-2008 Stella, and the current Saragosa SW is arguably not far from a post 2008 one.
however right you may be about those particular models, "beneficial trickle-down" is NOT "in a lock-step progression from the top down." there are plenty examples of inferior systems trickling UP from older/cheaper platforms, as cost-cutting measures... you have to pore over schematics, reviews, Forums, etc. IN ADVANCE, to take full advantage of the "beneficial trickle-down" -- otherwise, you get TRICKLED ON by the marketing spin-doctors
I have referenced Alan Hawke a few times but he hasn't reviewed a Stradic in a while. And Philaroman is right about so called "Improvements", the new Spheros being an example that has suffered from cost cutting.
Quote from: Recoil Rob on March 30, 2020, 03:14:56 PM
Quote from: philaroman on March 30, 2020, 02:21:52 PM
that's good advice: whatever high-end Shimano's AH reviews, he does a thorough discussion of individual features/systems that span many models
Quote from: boon on March 30, 2020, 01:42:16 AM
The entire chain works in a lock-step progression from the top down. Same as their bicycle parts. Each time the flagship Stella steps forward, there's a trickle-down of parts and ways of assembling things. As a result the Stradic FK is quite probably on par with a pre-2008 Stella, and the current Saragosa SW is arguably not far from a post 2008 one.
however right you may be about those particular models, "beneficial trickle-down" is NOT "in a lock-step progression from the top down." there are plenty examples of inferior systems trickling UP from older/cheaper platforms, as cost-cutting measures... you have to pore over schematics, reviews, Forums, etc. IN ADVANCE, to take full advantage of the "beneficial trickle-down" -- otherwise, you get TRICKLED ON by the marketing spin-doctors
I have referenced Alan Hawke a few times but he hasn't reviewed a Stradic in a while. And Philaroman is right about so called "Improvements", the later Spheros models being an example that have suffered from cost cutting.
furthermore, the "beneficial trickle-down" applies to design... execution & materials -- not so much :(
the Japanese bronze main gear has not trickled anywhere out of the $500+/reel ballpark :'( :'( :'(
Rob,
I think I know what info would be useful to you from "my older era":
StradicFH/FI(CuradoG) are Shimano's BAD YEARS: instead of raising prices, they downgraded bread-n-butter models
crappy handles are easy to swap, but a rollback to an older, cheaper, inferior bail return mechanism is significant
if you close the bail by cranking the handle -- STAY AWAY!!! go w/ older Japanese, or later Malaysian starting w/ FJ
if you close the bail manually, for better braid line-lay -- it doesn't matter as much... might actually be an opportunity for bargains
personally, I would avoid FI gearbox, or any "Malaysian first" (in this case, 1st spinner w/ worm oscillation)
FH, on the other hand, is VERY interesting: last & arguably best Japan-made body/gearbox + good spools/drag
atrocious handle is easily upgraded from MANY later models & there's an endless source of identical downgraded rotors
w/ fully compatible spools/knobs from less-desirable, cheaper Stradic FI; concurrent Symetre(FJ?); concurrent Sahara(FD?);
and other later cheap models (w/ ST-2500FH, all later 3000-size stuff ALSO fits -- higher capacity / smaller drag)
the trick is to find replacement FH main gears (or baby the one you have)
My Stradic 4000 is an FI model and has given me no problems over the years. But then I only paid $60 for it new so I couldn't complain even if there was something to complain about!
I have four StradicFE and (2)FA. Lie to me Roman and say they were the best models, lol.
Like Mark, I don't have any problems with them at all. But I always baby my tools.
Quote from: philaroman on March 30, 2020, 02:21:52 PM
that's good advice: whatever high-end Shimano's AH reviews, he does a thorough discussion of individual features/systems that span many models
Quote from: boon on March 30, 2020, 01:42:16 AM
The entire chain works in a lock-step progression from the top down. Same as their bicycle parts. Each time the flagship Stella steps forward, there's a trickle-down of parts and ways of assembling things. As a result the Stradic FK is quite probably on par with a pre-2008 Stella, and the current Saragosa SW is arguably not far from a post 2008 one.
however right you may be about those particular models, "beneficial trickle-down" is NOT "in a lock-step progression from the top down." there are plenty examples of inferior systems trickling UP from older/cheaper platforms, as cost-cutting measures... you have to pore over schematics, reviews, Forums, etc. IN ADVANCE, to take full advantage of the "beneficial trickle-down" -- otherwise, you get TRICKLED ON by the marketing spin-doctors
Sadly very true, rather sad that the basic Shimano one-way assembly has "trickled up" all the way to the Stella. Is it still very effective? Sure. But the Stella has, for the last couple of generations, had a bespoke anti-reverse, so it feels like a step backwards to me.
As you say, poring over the schematics to find those reels that have either inherited parts/design, or even share identical parts with much higher-end reels, can pay dividends.
Quote from: Rancanfish on March 30, 2020, 09:05:59 PM
I have four StradicFE and (2)FA. Lie to me Roman and say they were the best models, lol.
Like Mark, I don't have any problems with them at all. But I always baby my tools.
just so happens, I'm debating between FB & FE 4000 for a "Dunkin' Stradic"
(one bearing on the pinion & brass bushings everywhere else)
maybe not the best, but I can't point to anything & say,
"Hey, that's blatantly cheaper/worse than previous Stradic models!!!"
Thanks. Upon reading my response I realized how lazy I am. I have the schematics for all of them.
Absolutely what I am looking for, thank you!
Quote from: philaroman on March 30, 2020, 07:01:02 PM
Rob,
I think I know what info would be useful to you from "my older era":
StradicFH/FI(CuradoG) are Shimano's BAD YEARS: instead of raising prices, they downgraded bread-n-butter models
crappy handles are easy to swap, but a rollback to an older, cheaper, inferior bail return mechanism is significant
if you close the bail by cranking the handle -- STAY AWAY!!! go w/ older Japanese, or later Malaysian starting w/ FJ
if you close the bail manually, for better braid line-lay -- it doesn't matter as much... might actually be an opportunity for bargains
personally, I would avoid FI gearbox, or any "Malaysian first" (in this case, 1st spinner w/ worm oscillation)
FH, on the other hand, is VERY interesting: last & arguably best Japan-made body/gearbox + good spools/drag
atrocious handle is easily upgraded from MANY later models & there's an endless source of identical downgraded rotors
w/ fully compatible spools/knobs from less-desirable, cheaper Stradic FI; concurrent Symetre(FJ?); concurrent Sahara(FD?);
and other later cheap models (w/ ST-2500FH, all later 3000-size stuff ALSO fits -- higher capacity / smaller drag)
the trick is to find replacement FH main gears (or baby the one you have)