My friend gave me his 4/0 senator to take apart and clean up for him. I pulled it apart and it was dry and everything sticky. I separated the drag stack. Some of the washers were stuck together so badly, I had to separate them with a razor blade. They were nearly glued together. Here are a few pics I took. What kind of washers are these? They are very hard and smooth. I was going to order a sheet of 1mm carbon fiber sheet and cal grease off ebay but wanted to see some suggestions here first. I'm very capable of doing the work. I just need the knowledge from you guys what I need.
Thanks,
Monty
They look like Smoothies to me which I think were gasket material. I'd go with either ht-100 or Carbontex... both are woven carbon fiber.
Hi Monty, the 1mm carbon fibre, are the best, lightly greased with cals grease. cheers Don.
Hi Monty —
You may find it cheaper, and more efficient to order (5) CF or HT-100's from Smooth Drag, Mystic, or Bryan.
Plus (1) Delrin under gear washer that does not get greased with Cal's.
After you clean up and flat-surface those SS washers, the CF's, Cal's, and the Delrin will make it a lifetime drag — plus smooth and effective through all drag positions from the lightest to full lock-down.
No jerkiness.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: MarkT on March 18, 2019, 08:34:00 PM
They look like Smoothies to me which I think were gasket material. I'd go with either ht-100 or Carbontex... both are woven carbon fiber.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-113HSP.aspx
I too would recommend just ordering a full drag kit from Mystic Parts as Alan suggested. 1 mm thick carbontex will likely not be thick enough. I believe the Ht-100s are 1.3 mm thick.
Thanks for the responses. I'm going to go with the mystic drag kit. Yes. I measured the washers out at .052. That's approximately 1.3mm. Definitely going to go with these are they seem to be a direct replacement.
Definitely go with the suggestion of The Boss. On my personal reels I have done 2 x 113H and one 114H and really just easiest to focus on cleaning and lubing all the internals and dropping a new matched stack of CF and Stainless in.
Thanks. I picked up the recommended set and some cal grease. Now, do I grease these drags or leave dry? Reel is going to fish straight 40lb test mono if that's important.
grease them, and welcome to the dark side....... ;D
When I found this forum four years ago, I was looking for help on a Mitchell 302. Life has not been the same since lol. I have met some amazing people personally and electronically, and at the forefront Alan himself. Now i can rebuild most conventional Penns in under an hour including cleaning. When I first started, I had hot-rodded two Senators with Accurate kits 20 years ago, and bought a few Newell spacer bars for Jigmasters. I recall telling myself "YOU ARE NOT HOTRODDING ALL THOSE JIGMASTERS, SQUIDDERS, AND ASSORTED BEACH / SURF / BAYMASTERS; YOU HAVE RACKS OF LEVER DRAGS AND DON"T EVEN LIVE AT THE BEACH ANYMORE!"
Well, let's just say things didn't go as planned....the longwinded point is that the Dark Side, as Alan says, especially if you are doing multiple reels, is to do them one way: the right way, then you don't worry which one has the new drag stack when that Big Tasty bends you up. Even stuff that's on the twentieth string team gets greased carbon drags if I bother to go in there. I never know where that reel might end up and the next person who has it will not have a failure from poor service. The next guy inside it will know it was done correctly. There's enough else to worry about on a boat.
John
Thanks everyone and especially to Alantani for being generous with his knowledge and awesome forum!
So you don't grease the delron washer under the drive gear? What about other non CF washers?
I decided to start greasing underside of the gear in older Penns just to decrease the corrosion factor. The delrin down there makes a good friction reducing surface and the grease probably negatively affects this, but saltwater seems to collect there and I hate ending up with a pitted gear. A carbon fiber under-the-gear washer you definitely wanna grease.
Alla metal washers get a light coating of cal's for mine.
I use hard washers underneath, and whenever i can I use steel mains. i grease like Greg said. if I screw up and lose a fish that might be reason 23.
I grease everything - corrosion proofing.
I got my drags in the mail yesterday. It included new stainless washers. Everything went together well and is put back together. I gave all metal parts a light film of marine bearing grease and a light film on the carbon fiber discs. They drag is nice and smooth now. No jerkiness at all. Just a few questions. I followed the diagram to the letter when assembling the drag stack. The eared washer just barely fit into the gear with the ears lined into the slots. I was extremely careful to make sure the ears stayed aligned as I assembled the reel. Will the stack compress as the drags are tightened and hopefully break in? I thought about removing a washer but felt this is how it's supposed to be since I'm using factory parts. Also, the dang metal trim rings on the drive side don't want to mate properly with the side plate. The screws are in all the way and not overtight, but there's a slight gap between the plates and the trim rings on the top face of the reel where no screws are holding the plate to the frame. The trim rings aren't bent. I put them on a table and they are flat and true. I've never had an issue with this before. Any thoughts?
Oftentimes, the Bakelite sideplates swell just enough over the years to not accept the trim ring properly.
What I do is remove the crank and ring —
Then just use a flat file to run a few laps around the edge of the plate where the ring nests.
Nothing shows — and it works just fine.
Hope this helps.
Best,
Fred
Monster, a couple of things. One, you should have used Cal's grease on the drag stack. After greasing wipe off the excess. Two, I don't quite understand the ring problem. It's always best to post a photograph of the problem. If I understand correctly the chrome ring does not fit flush with the right side plate and the ring is not warped. There must be something stuck to the grease around the ring. Take the ring off and check under the ring. If it is clean then I would switch rings with the left side. Very strange? Dominick
I was typing over Fred. That is another solution. Dominick
Quote from: Monster1 on March 26, 2019, 06:51:09 PM
The eared washer just barely fit into the gear with the ears lined into the slots. I was extremely careful to make sure the ears stayed aligned as I assembled the reel. Will the stack compress as the drags are tightened and hopefully break in? I thought about removing a washer but felt this is how it's supposed to be since I'm using factory parts.
That's normal for the eared washer to be right at the edge of the top of the gear. It will compress a little with use. Just make sure when the drag is backed off all the way there isn't enough play to let that washer get over the rim. I like to set mine when fully backed off there is still just a tick of pressure on the drags. That can be accomplished with an extra metal washer on top, or a delrin on top, or even an extra spring washer. 8)
Cool. Thanks for the help. Sorry for the confusion. Yes. The trim rings on the drive side side plate don't seat completely. You can see maybe .5mm gap between the bakalite and trim rings. It's not bad and it doesn't affect the performance. Also, I only used marine grease on the metal parts. I used Cal's to lightly coat the CF discs. It's done correctly and ready to fish.
Ref the drag. Hold the spool and crank the handle tightening it down now and then until you can hardly turn the handle. You need to squeeze excess grease out.This will seat the washers.
Monster, Fred was correct about filing the face plate, but take your time, so the file does not slide over the rim, & mark the Plate, after you get it to fit, place some marine grease between the chrome ring & the plate, good luck, & we want photos of the fish you catch, nothing better than to catch a good fish on a reel you have serviced, cheers Don.