Makaira 50W angular contact bearing mod

Started by limitdown, March 26, 2013, 02:33:49 PM

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madday

very nice works LimitDown,

i wonder if this type of modification could be applicable for makaira 20-30 size...???  ???
can't imagine using PE 10 (140 lbs) with 60 lbs of drag.... no chance for the fish....  ;D

jonathan.han

Unfortunately, you can still pull hooks.
raw instinct

Ron Jones

Quote from: Robert Janssen on May 21, 2013, 10:48:58 PM
Oh yes this reminds me yet again about the AC R4 bearings for the Avets... I'll get back later on that Avet  thread, but the short story is that i found three suppliers in the USA who had them, but was met with such incredible idiocy- absolute, utter, complete moronica- by some of the bearing suppliers and retailers that i just could in fact not contend with such simpletons and let it be for the time being.

Anyway, glad to see metric AC bearings are available all over the place and being put to good use.

.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who can't stand stupid and expresses it as such.
Ron
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"

mohamedhashem21

briliiant work limitdown :)

can you please tell me at what preset knob position you can get 60 lbs of drag at strike???

Bunnlevel Sharker

Quote from: mohamedhashem21 on July 15, 2013, 01:42:16 PM
briliiant work limitdown :)

can you please tell me at what preset knob position you can get 60 lbs of drag at strike???

That's stock for it. I've pulled 50 with another guy pullin with no harness and it wasn't fun. Harness and spotters are strongly recomended
Grayson Lanier

Tightlines667

This is good stuff!
So it's sounding like the bearing upgrade will put this 50W class reel in a drag class similar to the T-Rex?  Are there any conceivable long-term use/wear issues possible with all that force comming from one side of the spool (I.e. gears, dogs, spool or spool shaft bending/warping to potentially be concerned about?  Would heat also be a potential issue on the floating drag?  I mean don't other reels (i.e. T-Rex) designed to work under these kind of loads utilize seperate drag discs (as well as the plates), and redistribute the working load and drag-generated heat over 2 seperate (and balanced?) regions.  Just wondering if these reels can actually handle drag loads in this category without actually having been designed for this purpose.  Is there anything else which might possibly require upgrading/modification to ensure longevity and effective use of these high drag settings.  Field testing might be best here?

Just a few thoughts.
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B

i think this applies to all types of reels, within it's limits or specified specs.  ;) ;D

limitdown

After 9 months and 5 fishing trips of actual use in blue water, I'm very happy to report that the reel has performed very well.
With 50lbs of drag, the handle easily falls on its own weight (ie zero handle bind). At that kind of drag level, the rod stays in the rod holder when fighting as I'm unable to hang on. I've caught plenty of 200lb+ tuna, 120lb+ sailfish and 80lb wahoo.

Regarding the pressure on the reel, I'm using it well within the reel's original spec of 85lb max drag. The biggest difference is that I don't get any handle bind, even at 70lb+ drag. AC bearings will also last longer than standard radial bearings for those 2 spots. Regular radial bearings are made to take radial load (spinning) and not much axial load (lateral/side load). If too much axial load is applied, the inner races and/or balls will be damaged (ie in small Avet reels).

Regarding the issue pointed out above by TightLines666 with the Makaira's use of a brake mechanism on only one side. I also have my concerns regarding this. Imagine a car with only brakes on the right side. This wouldn't be much of a problem if stopping from low speeds, but if stopping from high speeds, this would cause serious problems. Likewise, at low drag pressures, the one-sided drag system should be fine, but at high drags, this could potentially cause problems in the long-run. One problem I see is torque'ing of the shaft and frame, potentially causing gear mis-alignment and the resulting problems.

I'm not sure why Okuma went with a one-sided braking system. Possibly to avoid lawsuits from Accurate (like what happened with Jigging Master)?

The ideal layout would be to have 2 sets of double-disked brakes, like in the TRX. The TRX has its own problem though. The spool-side drag plates apply axial pressure to the spool bearings. The radial bearing used in the pinion is still a problem. Okuma would have been better off had they used 2 sets of single-disked brakes on each side of the spool.

Regarding heat, I haven't experienced any problems, even with 120lb+ sailfish ripping off 300yds of line at 60mph in one go. The double drag plates seem to handle heat quite well. However, I do think that having 2 sets of double-disks would spread out the heat even better.

The more I looked at my Makaira's insides and the more I studied the patent application, I realized that the factory thrust bearing served a purpose that is very different from what I originally thought. The sole purpose is to keep the spool-side metal drag plate from sticking onto the spool. The thrust bearing does NOT alleviate axial load to the pinion bearing nor the left spool bearing.

In the next Makaira, I'd like to see
-   2 sets of double-disked brakes on each side. Even 2 sets of single-disked brakes would be great.
-   Incorporate a thrust bearing + radial bearing for the pinion. Also a thrust+radial bearing for the left spool bearing. This would almost completely eliminate potential damage to radial bearings from axial load.

With all that said though, I still think that the Makairas are among the best big game reels in the market. Every reel has its strengths and weaknesses. It's always great to discuss ways to improve.

If it ain't broke, IMPROVE it!

Projectd

Limit down... i wonder y in the blue hell i keep thinking u r in au. Hahaha... affinty i shld say... they work in a queer manner.. very nice meeting u today and thank for the wonderful job of cracking open the 50 w ii... hope the fishes give me a chance to try out the new mod on my reel. Thumb up for the kind gesture!!!

mohamedhashem21

there is some great work here :) well done:)
of course having drag desks on both side will be nicer but i think it's not critical we can't take the car brakes as an example since both of car wheels are on the ground and not co-axial , the drag force on the spool is different since the spool is considered a one wheel car (fat wheel on this case :) ) and that wheel is not touching the ground only the force of the engine applies on it :)
i don't know if i'm right or wrong. you are the expert here :)

mikx

I've ordered a cheap $12 angular bearing from Amazon to replace the left side spool bearing on my Mak 30 SEa reel.
It doesn't look like the pinion bearing has a lot of angular load, so I think this is the only one you really need.
I'll post a follow-up once I get it installed.

madday

Quote from: mikx on April 24, 2014, 02:55:47 AM
I've ordered a cheap $12 angular bearing from Amazon to replace the left side spool bearing on my Mak 30 SEa reel.
It doesn't look like the pinion bearing has a lot of angular load, so I think this is the only one you really need.
I'll post a follow-up once I get it installed.

nice... please keep us posted....

anybody know what is the right side plate and left spool bearing dimension for mak 30?
thxu... :)

mikx


So, I got a $12 left side spool bearing from Amazon and $9 pinion bearing from online bike shop (see pic attached).

The dimensions for 30 SEa are:
left side spool bearing -- 8x22x7
pinion bearing -- 10x22x6

Did complete rebuild, lubed everything inside and installed new bearings.
At #50 direct pull (no rod) the handle resistance was barely noticeable.
Tightened the drag to #70 at strike, the handle still spins easy and comfortable in high gear.
Decided to call it a success, next step is field tests :-)

Thanks to the original poster Limitdown and everyone else for this great discussion!






madday

Quote from: mikx on April 29, 2014, 01:41:23 AM

So, I got a $12 left side spool bearing from Amazon and $9 pinion bearing from online bike shop (see pic attached).

The dimensions for 30 SEa are:
left side spool bearing -- 8x22x7
pinion bearing -- 10x22x6

Did complete rebuild, lubed everything inside and installed new bearings.
At #50 direct pull (no rod) the handle resistance was barely noticeable.
Tightened the drag to #70 at strike, the handle still spins easy and comfortable in high gear.
Decided to call it a success, next step is field tests :-)

Thanks to the original poster Limitdown and everyone else for this great discussion!



now its time for another project for on my makairas 30.....  big THANKS MikX....  ;D ;D ;D

wirbelwind

has anyone tried applying the angular contact bearing mod to the mak 10? been reading from a couple of places that the thrust bearing in the mak is installed at the wrong place.