Hey all,
I 'm finding this to be a good time to be focusing on upgrading my reel collection and I have a question before I order some parts for a 501 jigmaster.
It has a steel main gear already, it is an older model 501 with course threaded gear sleeve and star. I have a newer 500 with fine threaded star and bronze sleeve. I like the fine tuning of the drag the fine threaded gear sleeve gives compared to the coarse sleeves.
Question #1: I am planning to buy a stainless steel gear sleeve for this reel. What are the pros and cons of coarse and fine threaded sleeves and stars in your opinions?
I am also wondering whether I should do an ultimate upgrade 5 + 1 drag stack or just stick with the three stack of carbon fiber drags in it already.
Question #2: I don't plan to upgrade to an aluminum frame for this 501. It is the old post frame model. With the 20 pounds of drag possible with the
5 + 1 drag stack will my frame become the weak link?
Questions #3: Now that I think about it why don't we/reel makers use a sort of flywheel key in reels so we don't shred expensive gears, frames, dogs, etc??
Thanks for any input everyone, Chip
Hey Chip!
Q.1) Much better range of fine tune drag adjustibility with the 98-505/10-505 sleeve & star. 10-505 star bigger with longer star-points. Unknowen advantage to 98-60/10-60 system, 'cept maybe faster ramp-up/down of drag adjustment, if needed.
Q.2) Yes. Will give you higher drag friction(12-18lbs.?) and less wear on each drag disc. Yes, that's alota pressure on even a narrow 501 post frame.
Q.3) Sorry, answering a Q. With a Q.; What's a flywheel key?
The only reason why I know what a flywheel key is is because I am a cheapskate who has to fix his own mowers.
When you run over a root with your push mower and it won't start up again but was running perfectly before - it is possibly your flywheel key got sheared in two. It's to prevent further damage to your mower when you abuse it. You have to get another "key" - actually a little aluminum? metal small little quarter inch rod that fits in somehow to flywheel of motor to perform its magic. Kind of a sacrificial part to protect the expensive stuff.
We need a sacrificial part that shears off at a set pressure to protect all our expensive stainless steel upgrades is my point.
Chip
Gfish,
Also thanks for reply!
That all makes sense. Yeah, think I will go with fine threaded gear sleeve and star. I will mull over a half tiburon frame for this 501 if putting it at risk with higher drag without it. I have an itch to semi tank out this reel.
Thanks again. I appreciate the knowledge.
Chip
I doubt you'll ever see that happen with SS gears.
Aluminum, pot metal, and brass, yes.
But that's why we upgrade to steel or SS. No worries of them stripping :)
Thanks Chad, Chip
The proper term would be sheer pin.
Actually the proper term is flywheel key. Both the shear pin and the flywheel key serve a similar function but implement differently. The key is inserted in a groove longitudinal to the shaft, the pin is inserted through a hole perpendicular to the shaft.
Lawnmower flywheel key, snow blower shear pin.
Quote from: Wilmar on March 17, 2020, 11:29:26 PM
We need a sacrificial part that shears off at a set pressure to protect all our expensive stainless steel upgrades is my point.
No room for a fly wheel. The drag protects the other components.
-steve
No need for sacrificial parts, shear pins, keys, flywheels, etc. Line breaks, problem solved. Rudy
Quote from: RowdyW on March 18, 2020, 09:26:48 AM
No need for sacrificial parts, shear pins, keys, flywheels, etc. Line breaks, problem solved. Rudy
Yup!
I want to mention that there is are many grade of Stainless Steel, some softer than brass.
I have seen some earlier SS gear sleeve bend pretty bad.
ProChallenge uses 410 heat treated extremely tough and I believe so does Tom (Cortez Conversations)
There are some that don't like those for some reason or another, but the proof is in the pudding... as always.
Sal
Whenever I go through old tackle boxes from estates, etc, it tells me a lot about the previous owner when I find a handful of shear pins in one of the slots. Spinnerbaits and shear pins? Guess this guy used to like fishing flooded timber...
Got it, 'cept for the flywheel key on a reel. Got a shear pin on my elec. motor propeller and a vertical(longitudinal) plastic shaft on my kayak rudder that will(did once) shear under too much pressure.
Would the flywheel key be between the main gear and gear sleeve?
Hey all,
I have next to no mechanical knowledge or skill so I really don't know where a shear pin would go in a reel - I was thinking maybe pinion gear to spool shaft somehow. I think it would need to be a pretty expensive reel to justify a shear pin though. This was just a idea, and I've got a ton of ideas....
My next idea will be to dream up a way to set star drags to preset drag weights - there has got to be a way!!
Thanks guys, Chip
Quote from: Wilmar on March 18, 2020, 11:13:41 PM
My next idea will be to dream up a way to set star drags to preset drag weights - there has got to be a way!!
Get a drag spring scale
I'd think if the line wasn't the weak k link the dog or arb would fail Maybe the post holding the dog
Did many tests with the Jigmaster while custom gears were being made.
The one thing that usually failed was the tip of the pinion where it engages into the spoolshaft at around 22 -24lbs.
This was with stock gears, the custom gears held up at 25lb, I didn't want to push it farther.
One of the test was using a cinder black tied with a rope about 25' up and over a branch.
The black was around 30lb and I let it drop slow and steady while the line rode over a pulley wheel.
The reinforcing ring on the pinion didn't help much.
Sal
Sal, that's the kind of information we could only learn here. Really cool.
Chip
Sal, I've got to ask - when the pinion gear failed did it shatter into pieces or damage the spool shaft?
If only the pinion gear was damaged that would act as the sacrificial part/cheaply replacable weak link.
- Chip
Quote from: Swami805 on March 19, 2020, 01:13:15 AM
I'd think if the line wasn't the weak k link the dog or arb would fail Maybe the post holding the dog
Arb's are notorious letting go way before a mechanical dog. Who has a Jigmaster with a arb ???? ??? ::)
Nothing in a reel is a sacrificial part. Failures come from bad used part that is worn out or already broken or cracked. Parts break when pushed beyond their design limits. If you need a stronger reel, trade your Jigmaster in on a 113H, 114H, 115, etc.
Quote from: Wilmar on March 19, 2020, 03:14:47 AM
Sal, I've got to ask - when the pinion gear failed did it shatter into pieces or damage the spool shaft?
If only the pinion gear was damaged that would act as the sacrificial part/cheaply replacable weak link.
- Chip
One side of the pinion, where it slides on the spool shaft bent outwards a little and causing it to slip on the spool shaft... it doesn't take much.
The ring on top of the pinions popped right off.
Keep in mind my test was to see how far I could push it and not where it should be fished at.
Penn rates it's jigmasters st 17 lb max.
If you customize yours with all available custom parts, I see no issues using it at 22 lb max,
22 lb is a lot of drag.
If you need more, as Rudy has mentioned a 113H would fit the bill.
Sal
....or get a jigmaster with 113h gears and spool shaft. Also know as pro gear 541, or accurate magnum
Thanks everybody. I think I see the lay of the land now. Thanks Sal for taking the time to explain it clearly for me. I appreciate it fellas.
Chip
About setting drag weights to pre-set drag weights; Most would probably not do it, but I've marked some of my reels at 5 & 10 lbs. just for a reference point. Using a scale, find which drag star point is closest to, or, even with the handle arm at _lbs. on your scale. I use a white paint dot with the lb. number written inside via a sharpie, on both the star tip and the handle. Should be able to tell by finger pressure on the star when you get the right matching alignment.
This of course will change as various parts wear(drag washers) and possibly when you disassemble for service. Also you can use the inside of the star and handle if it causes you "cosmetic stress" to mark up your reel. Allen T's thread:"what's comming off the bench" features photos of some stick on markers used on lever drag reels that might work well.
I usually have the star backed all the way and use my thumb to set the hook, maybe set at 3lb.
I do not mark mine, but have talked about it here maybe 10 years ago.
I also had pics and videos of tastings until photobucket blocked them.
I had retrieving a wagon with bricks while turning the handle and dropping the weight as mentioned above.
Anyways, if you start from zero ( star backed all the way) use a scale and measure what you gain with each movement of one point on the star and you're set.
I believe you'll gain 3 lb at a time, but depends on how your drags are set up.
Sal
Thanks Gfish and Sal. Yeah, a kind of color coding with nail polishes on the star points in relation to the handle arm is what I was thinking. Gfish, that is a nice system you developed - easy to see and able to write actual numbers on each star point. Better than my color color coding idea by far!. Sal, that's good to know about 3 lbs per star point and that you looked into it too.
Thanks guys, Chip