All of the comments that I received on my Avet 50EXW modification thread (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6601.0) inspired me to modify my Makaira 50W. Although in its factory state, the Makaira 50W can put out more drag than I'll ever use or could possibly handle, I wanted this to be more of an experimental and exploratory modification which I want to eventually replicate for smaller reels that have serious handle binding issues even at low drag.
As most lever drag owners know, the biggest problem is the axial load (side load) on two bearings. The pinion bearing (right side plate bearing) and the left spool bearing (the left side plate bearing if you have a "push" design drag like the EXW). The Makairas have a "pull design" drag so the left spool bearing shares the axial load with the pinion bearing.
Although deep groove radial ball bearings can handle some axial load, they weren't designed for heavy axial loads. Also, if the radial bearings are small like in the small Avets, the amount of axial load capacity is pitiful and causes handle binding. The easy solution is to use a much larger radial bearing. Since most of us don't have CNC mills to machine new right side plates with larger slots for large radial bearings, we'll need to get a different type of bearing, one that can handle some radial load, and lots of axial load. The 3 types of bearings that I found during my research are:
- Tapered roller bearings
- Spherical roller thrust bearings
- Angular contact bearings
Of these 3, only angular contact bearings are available off-the-shelf with inner diameters (ie bore) of less than 15mm. The world has "metricated" (ie moved to the metric system), so it's very difficult and expensive to find inch/imperial bearings. I haven't been able to find inch angular contact bearings for my EXW50 so I've put that project on ice.
For small R4-sized bearings (0.25x0.625x0.196 inch) used in the small Avet SX, MX and JX's, angular contact bearings are either way too expensive at $125+ or need to be custom made at quantities over 500 pieces. If I can get 100 people to commit to purchasing 2 pieces each, then I'll commit the capital and take inventory risk. From my chats with a few bearing manufacturers, the best choice for our application would actually be tapered roller bearings, but they are much more difficult (ie expensive) to produce in small sizes.
Luckily, the Makaira is all metric and correctly-sized off-the-shelf angular contact bearings can be found.
Through a contact of mine in the machine parts business, I was able to squeeze in an order for some SKF 71900-sized angular contact bearings to replace the pinion bearing (10x22x6mm). For some reason, I didn't properly measure the left spool bearing when I serviced my reel a few months back. I figured that I'd just look at Alan's 50-Regular rebuild thread for the bearing size, 10x22x6. Nice, the same as the 71900. It turns that out the 50W's left spool bearing is 608-sized (8x22x7mm). I didn't realize this until I removed the left spool bearing and noticed that that the size wasn't right......
So...I was only able to mount the 71900 to the right side plate. I just happened to have some full silicon nitride (Si3N4) bearings in 608 size left over from another project so I mounted one to the left side of the spool. I'm not sure what to expect from the Si3N4 bearing. The radial load rating is much higher than with 52100 bearing steel and 440C stainless steel, but I'm not sure how it would perform with axial load. Axial load rating of radial ball bearings is theoretically about 25% of static radial load, but I'm not sure if the Si3N4 balls are too brittle and will get crushed by the axial forces. I'll be doing some torture test and will let everyone know how this Si3N4 bearing holds up. I'll try to get a proper angular contact bearing for this soon.
I haven't had time to do any pull tests with a scale, but my initial feel is that the handle is still very free-turning with the preset cranked down ridiculously and lever thrown to full.
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000401-600_zpsb2e0bfbe.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000418-600_zps751ed5f9.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000428-600_zps31b736ff.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000430-600_zps6780bbb2.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000426-600_zpsf8eb005a.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000431-600_zpsdd756c0f.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000140-600_zps9c39985a.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000440-600_zps0997518f.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/ball-angular-contact-sr-std_zpsc2f3a594.jpg)
nice work. i forwarded this on to john bretza at okuma usa.
I'm still waiting to get some 608-sized (8*22*7mm) angular contact bearings for the left spool.
Even with just the pinion bearing replaced, I feel so little cranking resistance even with the drag ridiculously cranked down.
I don't think I'll be able to test this to the limit as it would involve bolting down the reel to concrete/steel and using a car to pull the scale and line.
I'm getting close to finalizing negotiations with a manufacturer to produce some R4-sized angular contact bearings for me. These would fit the small Avets, which need this modification much more than any Makaira or EXW.
I've found three major manufacturers of Angular Contact R4s. Awaiting more info on supply & cost. We'll see what they say.
QuoteThe Makairas have a "pull design" drag so the left spool bearing shares the axial load with the pinion bearing.
Actually, they've (Okuma) been very careful to do all they can to direct load into their proprietary bearing arrangement on the right; somewhat different from the usual drawbar thang. See diagram. I'm not sure really if anything can be gained by using an ac bearing in the left of the spool in this case.
But what the heck; try it anyway, just for fun.
(http://www.google.com/patents?id=Fe-tAAAAEBAJ&hl=sv&hl=sv&pg=PA4&img=1&zoom=4&sig=ACfU3U2hJlZC_a7b46w5l3ZVXCCjZi0ECg&ci=396%2C349%2C269%2C666&edge=0)
I looked through the patent again and it still seems to me that the displacement of the shaft requires axial force to be placed on both the left and right spool bearings.
Second to last page
http://www.google.com/patents/US7278599
".......when the shaft 16 is driven by the spanner 18 (comment:ie drag lever) to move rightward to the second position, as shown in FIGS. 5 and 6, the shaft 16 forces the spool 20 to move rightward by means of the retaining ring 55, the spring washers 56 and the left bearing 54 (comment : the left-most E-Clip is used to push the bearing into the left side of the spool), keeping the brake pad 30 in contact with the first disk 44. At the same time, the shaft 16 forces the second 40 disk 48 (comment : the brake disk closer to the spool) to move rightward by means of the retaining ring 58, the spring washers 59, the right bearing 57 (comment : the E-Clip on the right side of the shaft is used to push the right spool bearing into the thrust bearing) and the thrust bearing 60, keeping the second disk 48 in close contact with the brake pad 30. Thus, the shaft 16 exerts a pressure to both of the spool 20 and the second disk 48 through the support set 52 (comment : there are two sets of "support sets", left and right side of spool).........."
It seems like the force on the left E-Clip is used to push the left bearing into the spool. This then moves the spool to the right thereby engaging the right-most brake plate to engage the carbon washer. The E-Clip near the right spool bearing is used to push the other brake plate rightward to engage the carbon washer.
The axial load exerted on the right spool bearing is neutralized by the thrust bearing. However, I still see axial load on the left spool bearing that isn't neutralized.
Please let me know if I'm missing something.
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/02_zps85ebf55e.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/1_16_02_10_10_40_17_3_zpsa0c2df72.jpg)
All I can say is that there is a lot of talent on this site. Keep up the good work guys, and yes, if you can figure out a way to improve the Avets, that would be a Godsend. Thanks.
Hmm yeah, lookit that... My bad; brain fart. Funny y'know, after reading and analyzing hundreds of patents to death for years and years, i gotta admit i seldom read the darn things anymore- just look at the diagrams.
.
Quick update
I finally received a correctly-sized angular contact bearing for the left spool.
I've only been able to test drag up to 70lbs. Beyond that, I would need to secure the reel to something solid and use a car to pull the line.
At 70lbs, I still have free spool and there was no resistance whatsoever when turning the handle. This was only with the lever pushed up to the number "5" setting.
At the "6" setting, there is still no resistance when turning the handle in high gear. In "Full" setting, I was finally beginning to feel a slight bit of resistance in high gear. In Low gear, the handle was still able to "fall" on its own weight.
It's safe to say that I am getting over 70lbs of drag with free spool and no handle resistance.
Total cost of the 2 bearings, around $30
Metric angular contact bearings are much easier to find and are much cheaper. It's the very small inch ones that are troublesome.
I actually never tested the drag, free spool and turning resistance with stock bearings. For people who have the 50W, what kind of numbers are you getting?
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/pork190/P1000567-2.jpg) (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/pork190/media/P1000567-2.jpg.html)
(http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/pork190/P1000566-2.jpg) (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/pork190/media/P1000566-2.jpg.html)
This is awesome. For the price of a Makaira, I'd say it's money well worth spent. Can you imagine if the guys on Wicked Tuna could lock down the drag on 400# braid and leader to 70# and still crank in the fish in low gear. It's stop that tuna in it's tracks. Not sure how the boat gunnels will hold up though.
Projects like this is one big part of why I love this site. The other part is all you guys who start up project like this and share the your knowledge, talent and results for us other guys who only want to walk in your footsteps.
Peace and respect!
/Karl
Oh yes this reminds me yet again about the AC R4 bearings for the Avets... I'll get back later on that Avet thread, but the short story is that i found three suppliers in the USA who had them, but was met with such incredible idiocy- absolute, utter, complete moronica- by some of the bearing suppliers and retailers that i just could in fact not contend with such simpletons and let it be for the time being.
Anyway, glad to see metric AC bearings are available all over the place and being put to good use.
.
this is the only site in the world where intelligent folk
share their knowliege for free
also,there are no ratbags.
except thee and me ;)
Quotealso,there are no ratbags.
except thee and me ;)
:D ;D
with all that has been going on at home, i've been walking around with those bearings in my computer bag for who knows how long! would you like me to forward them to okuma? that would seem like the best place for them. actually, avets need them more. :-\
Quote from: alantani on May 22, 2013, 04:44:04 AM
with all that has been going on at home, i've been walking around with those bearings in my computer bag for who knows how long! would you like me to forward them to okuma? that would seem like the best place for them. actually, avets need them more. :-\
As a background.
I actually sent some AC bearings to Alan in hopes that he would slap them into his 50 II and post up some numbers!
I sent out a 10x22x6 and an 8x22x7 AC bearing. But looking back at your old post on the 50 II, it looks like the 50 II and 50W have different sized left spool bearings, so the 8x22x7 might not work. You might need 2 pieces of the 10x22x6's
Perhaps Alan can send them to another member who has a 50W and has the time to do full tests. Or send them to Okuma if they promise to give you full results.
very nice works LimitDown,
i wonder if this type of modification could be applicable for makaira 20-30 size...??? ???
can't imagine using PE 10 (140 lbs) with 60 lbs of drag.... no chance for the fish.... ;D
Unfortunately, you can still pull hooks.
Quote from: Robert Janssen on May 21, 2013, 10:48:58 PM
Oh yes this reminds me yet again about the AC R4 bearings for the Avets... I'll get back later on that Avet thread, but the short story is that i found three suppliers in the USA who had them, but was met with such incredible idiocy- absolute, utter, complete moronica- by some of the bearing suppliers and retailers that i just could in fact not contend with such simpletons and let it be for the time being.
Anyway, glad to see metric AC bearings are available all over the place and being put to good use.
.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who can't stand stupid and expresses it as such.
Ron
briliiant work limitdown :)
can you please tell me at what preset knob position you can get 60 lbs of drag at strike???
Quote from: mohamedhashem21 on July 15, 2013, 01:42:16 PM
briliiant work limitdown :)
can you please tell me at what preset knob position you can get 60 lbs of drag at strike???
That's stock for it. I've pulled 50 with another guy pullin with no harness and it wasn't fun. Harness and spotters are strongly recomended
This is good stuff!
So it's sounding like the bearing upgrade will put this 50W class reel in a drag class similar to the T-Rex? Are there any conceivable long-term use/wear issues possible with all that force comming from one side of the spool (I.e. gears, dogs, spool or spool shaft bending/warping to potentially be concerned about? Would heat also be a potential issue on the floating drag? I mean don't other reels (i.e. T-Rex) designed to work under these kind of loads utilize seperate drag discs (as well as the plates), and redistribute the working load and drag-generated heat over 2 seperate (and balanced?) regions. Just wondering if these reels can actually handle drag loads in this category without actually having been designed for this purpose. Is there anything else which might possibly require upgrading/modification to ensure longevity and effective use of these high drag settings. Field testing might be best here?
Just a few thoughts.
i think this applies to all types of reels, within it's limits or specified specs. ;) ;D
After 9 months and 5 fishing trips of actual use in blue water, I'm very happy to report that the reel has performed very well.
With 50lbs of drag, the handle easily falls on its own weight (ie zero handle bind). At that kind of drag level, the rod stays in the rod holder when fighting as I'm unable to hang on. I've caught plenty of 200lb+ tuna, 120lb+ sailfish and 80lb wahoo.
Regarding the pressure on the reel, I'm using it well within the reel's original spec of 85lb max drag. The biggest difference is that I don't get any handle bind, even at 70lb+ drag. AC bearings will also last longer than standard radial bearings for those 2 spots. Regular radial bearings are made to take radial load (spinning) and not much axial load (lateral/side load). If too much axial load is applied, the inner races and/or balls will be damaged (ie in small Avet reels).
Regarding the issue pointed out above by TightLines666 with the Makaira's use of a brake mechanism on only one side. I also have my concerns regarding this. Imagine a car with only brakes on the right side. This wouldn't be much of a problem if stopping from low speeds, but if stopping from high speeds, this would cause serious problems. Likewise, at low drag pressures, the one-sided drag system should be fine, but at high drags, this could potentially cause problems in the long-run. One problem I see is torque'ing of the shaft and frame, potentially causing gear mis-alignment and the resulting problems.
I'm not sure why Okuma went with a one-sided braking system. Possibly to avoid lawsuits from Accurate (like what happened with Jigging Master)?
The ideal layout would be to have 2 sets of double-disked brakes, like in the TRX. The TRX has its own problem though. The spool-side drag plates apply axial pressure to the spool bearings. The radial bearing used in the pinion is still a problem. Okuma would have been better off had they used 2 sets of single-disked brakes on each side of the spool.
Regarding heat, I haven't experienced any problems, even with 120lb+ sailfish ripping off 300yds of line at 60mph in one go. The double drag plates seem to handle heat quite well. However, I do think that having 2 sets of double-disks would spread out the heat even better.
The more I looked at my Makaira's insides and the more I studied the patent application, I realized that the factory thrust bearing served a purpose that is very different from what I originally thought. The sole purpose is to keep the spool-side metal drag plate from sticking onto the spool. The thrust bearing does NOT alleviate axial load to the pinion bearing nor the left spool bearing.
In the next Makaira, I'd like to see
- 2 sets of double-disked brakes on each side. Even 2 sets of single-disked brakes would be great.
- Incorporate a thrust bearing + radial bearing for the pinion. Also a thrust+radial bearing for the left spool bearing. This would almost completely eliminate potential damage to radial bearings from axial load.
With all that said though, I still think that the Makairas are among the best big game reels in the market. Every reel has its strengths and weaknesses. It's always great to discuss ways to improve.
If it ain't broke, IMPROVE it!
Limit down... i wonder y in the blue hell i keep thinking u r in au. Hahaha... affinty i shld say... they work in a queer manner.. very nice meeting u today and thank for the wonderful job of cracking open the 50 w ii... hope the fishes give me a chance to try out the new mod on my reel. Thumb up for the kind gesture!!!
there is some great work here :) well done:)
of course having drag desks on both side will be nicer but i think it's not critical we can't take the car brakes as an example since both of car wheels are on the ground and not co-axial , the drag force on the spool is different since the spool is considered a one wheel car (fat wheel on this case :) ) and that wheel is not touching the ground only the force of the engine applies on it :)
i don't know if i'm right or wrong. you are the expert here :)
I've ordered a cheap $12 angular bearing from Amazon to replace the left side spool bearing on my Mak 30 SEa reel.
It doesn't look like the pinion bearing has a lot of angular load, so I think this is the only one you really need.
I'll post a follow-up once I get it installed.
Quote from: mikx on April 24, 2014, 02:55:47 AM
I've ordered a cheap $12 angular bearing from Amazon to replace the left side spool bearing on my Mak 30 SEa reel.
It doesn't look like the pinion bearing has a lot of angular load, so I think this is the only one you really need.
I'll post a follow-up once I get it installed.
nice... please keep us posted....
anybody know what is the right side plate and left spool bearing dimension for mak 30?
thxu... :)
So, I got a $12 left side spool bearing from Amazon and $9 pinion bearing from online bike shop (see pic attached).
The dimensions for 30 SEa are:
left side spool bearing -- 8x22x7
pinion bearing -- 10x22x6
Did complete rebuild, lubed everything inside and installed new bearings.
At #50 direct pull (no rod) the handle resistance was barely noticeable.
Tightened the drag to #70 at strike, the handle still spins easy and comfortable in high gear.
Decided to call it a success, next step is field tests :-)
Thanks to the original poster Limitdown and everyone else for this great discussion!
Quote from: mikx on April 29, 2014, 01:41:23 AM
So, I got a $12 left side spool bearing from Amazon and $9 pinion bearing from online bike shop (see pic attached).
The dimensions for 30 SEa are:
left side spool bearing -- 8x22x7
pinion bearing -- 10x22x6
Did complete rebuild, lubed everything inside and installed new bearings.
At #50 direct pull (no rod) the handle resistance was barely noticeable.
Tightened the drag to #70 at strike, the handle still spins easy and comfortable in high gear.
Decided to call it a success, next step is field tests :-)
Thanks to the original poster Limitdown and everyone else for this great discussion!
now its time for another project for on my makairas 30..... big THANKS MikX.... ;D ;D ;D
has anyone tried applying the angular contact bearing mod to the mak 10? been reading from a couple of places that the thrust bearing in the mak is installed at the wrong place.
Mak 10 now that get's my attentions. Making a tank more durable!
Thanks for your work and contribution to this site. I just stumbled on your post about angular bearings for the solution of the pinion bearing dragging! I,m so happy about this site. It Rocks with good friendly free information. Thanks Again. gst.
Limitdown,
Thanks for your hard work.
I'm considering this mod for my 50W
Does anybody have a good source for these angular contact bearings in the SS version (preferably 440C material or equal) ABEC rating is important but does not have to be very high ABEC 5 will be sufficient ABEC 7 is not neccessary but ok
I'm getting ridiculous prices over here locally >:( (even up to 250€, per bearing that is) The standard chromium steel is much easier to get but I prefer the SS version
I did a similar thing with an Okuma Andros - chrome steel (couldn't source SS) abec 7 AC bearings. Cost £120 :o per pair from GMN bearings.
I can get similar results (from standard bearings) by backing the drag off to 10lb at strike - 20lb full. More than enough drag for a stand-up combo.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on June 23, 2016, 08:26:15 AM
I did a similar thing with an Okuma Andros - chrome steel (couldn't source SS) abec 7 AC bearings. Cost £120 :o per pair from GMN bearings.
I can get similar results (from standard bearings) by backing the drag off to 10lb at strike - 20lb full. More than enough drag for a stand-up combo.
Yeah, i'm not using it for the average fish but i don't use a makaira 50W for the average fish either. Last fight was over 50 lb drag standup, that's why i am interested in the mod.
I noted that chromesteel bearings "might' be up to 20% stronger than 440c stainless bearings. Maybe i should reconsider my preference for stainles.
Hi guys, has anyone found a place to purchase any Angular Contact bearings for the small Avets and Accurates ? I would be willing to commit to at least 100 pieces.
Quote from: captainmmm on September 30, 2016, 12:09:57 PM
Hi guys, has anyone found a place to purchase any Angular Contact bearings for the small Avets and Accurates ? I would be willing to commit to at least 100 pieces.
A few of us have played around with A/C bearings to replace the pinion bearing in Avet reels. Myself and at least one other person on this site that I can remember found changing the pinion bearing in Avet reels alone did not help with the side load issues with the non-Raptor reels.
IMO fish the non-Raptor reels within the drag specs of the manufacture and all is well. Exceed those specs and you will have problems. If the specs don't work for you then other reels like the Raptor or other manufactures should be looked at.
A few weeks ago I caught a 75 lb blue fin on a Avet JX 6/3 with a 40 lb topper, did not exceed the drag specs and the reel handled the fish easily.
(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag355/SoCalAngler1/IMG_0666%202_zpsqqjfspqk.jpg)
Thanks SoCalAngler and totally agree with you. The issue here in our part of the world is that the local anglers don't bother with proper settings and destroy the bearings in no time. I am currently looking to replace these bearings with Angular Contact bearings so we avoid so many breakages. Any suggestion is welcomed.
Would this mod work on a Shimano Tiagra 50LRSA or 80W?
couple of question for the bearings gurus
1. for those who are not engineers (like me) can explain me whats the difference between angular contact bearings and thrust bearings?
2. on fathom reels, I have seen the thrust bearings on the left side of spool while on the right side plate (pinion) is using a normal radial bearing, how that helps to eliminate the problem on pinion bearing found on LD reels at high settings?
Hi mate, these may help...
Angular contact bearing versus normal bearing:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/3590_30_10_17_1_10_43.jpeg)
Thrust bearing:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/3590_30_10_17_1_11_18.png)
All the best, Justin
thanks
by the pictures I can say that angular bearings are not similar in any way to a Thrust bearing
well this was one informative thread, for me
As a follo up I did replace the pinion bearing with an angular contact bearing on my china 16 2-spd project reel. The posts are in past "Drag Ramps and Curves" Photo,s section. The Angular bearing made a wold of a improvement. at sunset the cranking is very smooth, even in hi gear. Well worth changing if you pull the reel down for inspection or maintenance.... Luckly the metric bearing was available on Amazon and less than 20$, I,m planning now to replace the pinion bearing as needed with these, sidethrusters ....Cheers! :)
Would a similar mod work on the Tiagra 50 or 80?
Quote from: limitdown on March 26, 2013, 02:33:49 PM
All of the comments that I received on my Avet 50EXW modification thread (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6601.0) inspired me to modify my Makaira 50W. Although in its factory state, the Makaira 50W can put out more drag than I'll ever use or could possibly handle, I wanted this to be more of an experimental and exploratory modification which I want to eventually replicate for smaller reels that have serious handle binding issues even at low drag.
As most lever drag owners know, the biggest problem is the axial load (side load) on two bearings. The pinion bearing (right side plate bearing) and the left spool bearing (the left side plate bearing if you have a "push" design drag like the EXW). The Makairas have a "pull design" drag so the left spool bearing shares the axial load with the pinion bearing.
Although deep groove radial ball bearings can handle some axial load, they weren't designed for heavy axial loads. Also, if the radial bearings are small like in the small Avets, the amount of axial load capacity is pitiful and causes handle binding. The easy solution is to use a much larger radial bearing. Since most of us don't have CNC mills to machine new right side plates with larger slots for large radial bearings, we'll need to get a different type of bearing, one that can handle some radial load, and lots of axial load. The 3 types of bearings that I found during my research are:
- Tapered roller bearings
- Spherical roller thrust bearings
- Angular contact bearings
Of these 3, only angular contact bearings are available off-the-shelf with inner diameters (ie bore) of less than 15mm. The world has "metricated" (ie moved to the metric system), so it's very difficult and expensive to find inch/imperial bearings. I haven't been able to find inch angular contact bearings for my EXW50 so I've put that project on ice.
For small R4-sized bearings (0.25x0.625x0.196 inch) used in the small Avet SX, MX and JX's, angular contact bearings are either way too expensive at $125+ or need to be custom made at quantities over 500 pieces. If I can get 100 people to commit to purchasing 2 pieces each, then I'll commit the capital and take inventory risk. From my chats with a few bearing manufacturers, the best choice for our application would actually be tapered roller bearings, but they are much more difficult (ie expensive) to produce in small sizes.
Luckily, the Makaira is all metric and correctly-sized off-the-shelf angular contact bearings can be found.
Through a contact of mine in the machine parts business, I was able to squeeze in an order for some SKF 71900-sized angular contact bearings to replace the pinion bearing (10x22x6mm). For some reason, I didn't properly measure the left spool bearing when I serviced my reel a few months back. I figured that I'd just look at Alan's 50-Regular rebuild thread for the bearing size, 10x22x6. Nice, the same as the 71900. It turns that out the 50W's left spool bearing is 608-sized (8x22x7mm). I didn't realize this until I removed the left spool bearing and noticed that that the size wasn't right......
So...I was only able to mount the 71900 to the right side plate. I just happened to have some full silicon nitride (Si3N4) bearings in 608 size left over from another project so I mounted one to the left side of the spool. I'm not sure what to expect from the Si3N4 bearing. The radial load rating is much higher than with 52100 bearing steel and 440C stainless steel, but I'm not sure how it would perform with axial load. Axial load rating of radial ball bearings is theoretically about 25% of static radial load, but I'm not sure if the Si3N4 balls are too brittle and will get crushed by the axial forces. I'll be doing some torture test and will let everyone know how this Si3N4 bearing holds up. I'll try to get a proper angular contact bearing for this soon.
I haven't had time to do any pull tests with a scale, but my initial feel is that the handle is still very free-turning with the preset cranked down ridiculously and lever thrown to full.
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000401-600_zpsb2e0bfbe.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000418-600_zps751ed5f9.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000428-600_zps31b736ff.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000430-600_zps6780bbb2.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000426-600_zpsf8eb005a.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000431-600_zpsdd756c0f.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000140-600_zps9c39985a.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/P1000440-600_zps0997518f.jpg)
(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/jameschan190/ball-angular-contact-sr-std_zpsc2f3a594.jpg)
Is there a design difference between Makaira 50 and 50W apart from the topless frame of 50? I was planning to get a 50II but if 50W II has better bearings, I would go for 50W II
Thanks
virtually no difference at all. the makaira 50 will hold 700 yards of 130 pound braid. if you need more line capacity that than, go for the wide version!!!! ;D
My Penn 50 SW had around 850 yd of 65# JB Solid and 350yd of 50# Ande Monster topshot with room for another 100-150yd. I guess it will fit the 50II. If I have to remove 100yd topshot, 1100 yd line is still way more I can wind in a single go (even with no fish on!)
I guess I'll stick with 50II. After all, 'Topless' sounds and looks romantic! :D
Cheers!
Hi all. I am reading a thread that is 10 years old. I have a Makaira 16 Sea. The question is - is there any practical sense in replacing the gear bearing or not? Are there cases of failure of the native bearing?
I got a replacement IJK 7900CTYNDULP4 but the price is about $90. I want to ask how rational this is.
Sorry for the language. I use a translator
sergy, welcome. with an inexpensive standard radial ball bearing, the performance of the reel should be acceptable. replacing the radial pinion bearing with an angular contact bearing should theoretically increase the drag range, but the added benefit is probably not worth the cost of the bearing.
there are a couple of issues to consider. first, the pinion bearing is always the first bearing to rust from salt water. that means that you might be replacing that horribly expensive angular contact bearing several times during the lifetime of the reel. second, the increase in drag range might not be that great before the angular contact bearing starts to bind or deform internally. the bearing will likely crush under the excess loads. you will have to use a bearing made of the softer 440 stainless steel. if you use a bearing made of the harder chrome steel, it will rust immediately.
so, short answer, i would leave it as is. :-\
Alan thanks! I fish in the sea 1-2 times a year. The road is 1500 km one way, then back. The largest theoretical load is the large halibut. I am an engineer by training and regularly clean and lubricate all my coils myself. I understand that under my conditions of fishing it does not make practical sense. Moreover, the main catch is cod and large halibut is a rarity.
Quote from: Normslanding on July 01, 2015, 04:08:44 PMMak 10 now that get's my attentions. Making a tank more durable!
did anyone ever tried this mod on the Mak 10?
i haven't. it really hadn't seemed necessary.
Quote from: alantani on March 09, 2023, 04:00:55 AMi haven't. it really hadn't seemed necessary.
somehow I was waiting that answer :P
Really interesting discussion, can the Makaira Sea series which is the newest mechanical version be upgraded with this change?
Quote from: MexicanGulf on June 03, 2023, 02:29:29 PMReally interesting discussion, can the Makaira Sea series which is the newest mechanical version be upgraded with this change?
Yes, except there's no point because they don't bind at practical levels of drag.
Hello All,
I recently bought a Mak30II SEa on eBay, which looks pristine. Last weekend I noticed that reeling in a MadMacs 160 lure with it while trolling at 9 knots required considerably more effort than it did with my Penn Fathom II 80LD. This was surprising, since I previously used a borrowed Mak 16 which worked great. From what I read, it sounds like the pinion bearing (Okuma PN 0910443?) may need replacement. I think it's a 10x22x6 mm deep groove radial ball bearing. Couple of questions:
1) Do any of you have recommendations for a good source of these? I've bought from Boca bearings in the past, and it also looks like VXB has them.
2) Is a bearing puller required to remove the bearing? I have a puller, but it won't pull a bearing this small.
Thanks,
Wes