Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Spinning Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Zangi => Topic started by: Fishgolfman on December 18, 2022, 02:07:58 PM

Title: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on December 18, 2022, 02:07:58 PM
I got two Delfino that are just tanks for fishing. Both loaded solid with grease. After lots of penetrating oil. Freed up internals only to find I can't remove rotor. The rotor nut size is unusual and clearance for a socket limited. There a trick or two? I need to access the bail stop plunger that engages bail. Totally gummed up. I have tried external plunger access with lots of penetrating oils to free up.
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: foakes on December 18, 2022, 03:48:45 PM
Tom, MidwayTommy, is our expert on these —-

He will likely be along shortly with vast knowledge of this reel.

2 things —-

On the socket size —- sometimes the right socket size needs to be located —- then grind down the outside of the socket to make it thinner-walled.

Also, some of the European reels from that vintage had reverse (counter-clockwise threads on the pinion that the rotor nut attaches to).

Make sure that you are turning it in the proper direction.

Best, Fred
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on December 18, 2022, 03:58:56 PM
Thanks Fred. Not a Dam Quick or Penn question which you are recognized expert,just a thoughtful answer and solution .
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on December 18, 2022, 05:00:26 PM
Discovered there are thin wall sockets! Will have to buy a set.
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Midway Tommy on December 18, 2022, 05:03:20 PM
Fred's right on the money with his advice. The pinion and nut are reverse thread. The nut is 17mm and you'll have to grind the socket wall down so it's thin walled to fit in the groove. I ground down my regular Craftsman 3/8 drive 17mm, used a short extension and replaced the socket in my set with a new one. Take care with those brass nuts as they break or crack very easily. Don't torque them much.

The tutorial takes you through the assembly process step by step. Disassembly is just the opposite. Most everything you need to know is there.
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on December 18, 2022, 05:32:42 PM
Thanks Tommy. I will try buying a thin wall metric socket set first before grinding. The 17mm number is critical as well as torque direction. Cant
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: PacRat on December 18, 2022, 06:54:48 PM
I have modified a lot of sockets and wrenches to fit specific needs (mostly for my vehicles). In most cases the socket will still work on anything else you work on. From the photo it looks like you can just bevel the edge enough to allow the socket to grip without the need to thin the wall. Over a lifetime your tools become personalized for your needs and your jobs become easier without the struggles of an il-fitting tool.

If I were doing this I would first grind the open face at 90 degrees (maybe remove 0.02") so that the points are crisp at the edge. Then bevel (or chamfer) the edge at 45 degrees to fit. Just remove a little at a time until the fit is optimal.
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: alantani on December 18, 2022, 07:09:35 PM
yup, you may have to make a thin walled socket.   :-\
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Midway Tommy on December 19, 2022, 04:04:38 AM
Quote from: PacRat on December 18, 2022, 06:54:48 PMI have modified a lot of sockets and wrenches to fit specific needs (mostly for my vehicles). In most cases the socket will still work on anything else you work on. From the photo it looks like you can just bevel the edge enough to allow the socket to grip without the need to thin the wall. Over a lifetime your tools become personalized for your needs and your jobs become easier without the struggles of an il-fitting tool.

If I were doing this I would first grind the open face at 90 degrees (maybe remove 0.02") so that the points are crisp at the edge. Then bevel (or chamfer) the edge at 45 degrees to fit. Just remove a little at a time until the fit is optimal.


One thing for sure, the rounded outside edge needs to be filed down to a flat hex face because those Italian brass nuts are not very thick/high. That's why I chose my Craftsman 17mm, the face has minimal rounding and the wall was already fairly thin. I only had to taper it the first 1/4". I had plenty of choices to choose from in my arsenal, Snap-On, SK, Craftsman & some Asian metrics. The Craftsman came the closest and took the least grinding. It only took about 10 minutes and I was on to disassembling the two reels I was working on. Plus, replacing that socket, which I really didn't have to do, was way cheaper than buying a full thin wall set and I didn't have to wait until I got the new set. I picked up the replacement 17mm Craftsman socket later at the Pawn Shop for $1 one day when I was looking for other stuff.  ;D     
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on December 26, 2022, 12:21:00 AM
Thin wall set arrived... still too thick. Plan b dremeling a 17mm socket. Somebody said to me get mitchell tools. Different sizes which one would work?
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: alantani on December 26, 2022, 05:57:22 PM
you may have to grind it down thinner.   :-\
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: foakes on December 26, 2022, 06:59:57 PM
You can Chuck the socket in a drill press using an extension or a drill in a vise —- and just use a file to thin out the side about 1/4" up —- this is all you need.

Then just replace the socket in your toolbox with a new one, later on. Just like Tommy & Alan sez.

Now you have a good reel tool.

Best, Fred
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on January 02, 2023, 12:37:10 AM
As suggested i got a 17mm craftsman socket. Ground down to fit with dremel tool. Will not turn in counter clockwise easily. Suggestions? I soaked area with liquid wrench. Does heating help?
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: foakes on January 02, 2023, 02:17:58 AM
It is reverse thread —- which means to remove the rotor nut requires the nut to come off "clockwise".

Best, Fred
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on January 02, 2023, 02:01:34 PM
THANKS. ROTOR NUT OFF EASILY. NOW THE PLUNGER ,SPRING AND SMALL SET SCREW. PLUNGER AND SPRING FROZEN. SET SCREW OFF WITH LIGUID WRENCH. THIS IS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE!!
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: alantani on January 02, 2023, 05:56:41 PM
i'm glad that you guys knew.  i had no idea!
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Midway Tommy on January 02, 2023, 06:00:19 PM
You just need to be patient and persistent and use the right tools for each process. Once you get the brass screw out of the plunger the plunger and spring will slide right out, but be careful not to lose or break that little screw or you'll be up poop creek without a paddle. Use the right size screwdriver and work it back and forth until it breaks loose. You'll probably have to make a tool with a split in the center to remove the off side bail nut. I made one a long time ago out of a cheap screw driver. I flattened the first inch and a half on an anvil (tapered) and filed a slot up the middle about a half inch or so and touched up the tip so it had no taper. I use it a lot on those types of nuts, they're usually not very tight.

Making tools when working on old reels is common practice, especially on European made reels. I had to make one yesterday to remove a rotor nut on a Cargem 23 Lancer (more on that in an upcoming tutorial).

Good luck, it's all doable.
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on January 02, 2023, 07:25:44 PM
Both you and Fred have the best advice! Many thanks.
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on January 02, 2023, 09:56:28 PM
Will have to soak the plunger in rotor with liquid wrench. Screw is out but still won't budge even with gentle nudging!
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on January 02, 2023, 10:02:58 PM
The plunger still will not move after brass screw removal. I will have to soak for a long period of time with liquid wrench. I have tried gentle nudging of plunger from back and front. At least i know it is just held by spring and plunger and gunk.
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Midway Tommy on January 02, 2023, 11:19:18 PM
If you have something like a 90 degree dental pick (or make something out of a paper clip) and try to push it out from the back side.

I doubt that liquid wrench will do what you need, it's more than likely dried grease, not rust. Try warming it up with a hair dryer to soften the grease and pushing it from the back side. You might also try standing it on edge with the outside plunger hole down and putting a very little solvent (mineral spirits, naphtha,lighter fluid, etc.) in the upper hole & let it soak down to soften the grease. Make sure it's up off your platform so the solvent drips away.
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on January 03, 2023, 12:14:57 AM
I have xylene which is a degreaser. Have the rotor area soaking then the other side where the hole is.will keep at it!!
 A simple project gone awry! Made a new tool and making a forked screw driver.  I certainly appreciate the Zangi reels. Can't wait to get more of them!!
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on January 03, 2023, 03:00:09 PM
The xylene may have helped overnight! Still it was immovable! So i dug out the heat gun and voila it freed up. Great suggestion by Tommy. Also enclosed are the pictures of rotor and plunger system, note that the spring is still in rotor.. if ain't broke don't try to fix. The plunger works great after 4/0 steel wool buffing. Now to finish it off , then the next delfino that has bail problem as well but untouched , to have a "visual schematic".
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on January 03, 2023, 03:06:14 PM
Oops. Pictures. Note plunger extends into rotor center. It was not obvious from prior pictures. Spring is stuck but functional!!F44B4D7B-A0BB-4320-8480-59787011DD43.jpeg4C54E053-822F-4F0F-86A7-3C4388149337.jpegD61B4ED2-6F90-48A8-A35A-8E0C19B78DD9.jpeg   
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Midway Tommy on January 03, 2023, 05:15:43 PM
Glad you got it out, but you really should remove that spring and clean it and the tube up or you'll have a similar issue down the line. Try to find something the same size as the hole and work that spring back and forth until it breaks loose. Add some more solvent if you need to. You worked hard to get to this point so don't quit halfway through. That thing looks like it had a pretty tough life with a negligent owner or two. Those are well made reels so, unless you have a broken and unreplaceable part you should be able to bring it back to full life. Take it through the entire restoration process and you'll end up being one proud guy.  ;) 
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: foakes on January 03, 2023, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on January 03, 2023, 05:15:43 PMGlad you got it out, but you really should remove that spring and clean it and the tube up or you'll have a similar issue down the line. Try to find something the same size as the hole and work that spring back and forth until it breaks loose. Add some more solvent if you need to. You worked hard to get to this point so don't quit halfway through. That thing looks like it had a pretty tough life with a negligent owner or two. Those are well made reels so, unless you have a broken and unreplaceable part you should be able to bring it back to full life. Take it through the entire restoration process and you'll end up being one proud guy.  ;) 

Yes!

Best, Fred
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Gfish on January 03, 2023, 06:05:22 PM
Good job!
What kind of a pinion turns the rotor?
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Midway Tommy on January 03, 2023, 07:38:18 PM
Quote from: Gfish on January 03, 2023, 06:05:22 PMGood job!
What kind of a pinion turns the rotor?

Steel pinion with a brass main gear, Greg. You can see what all the parts look like in the tutorial
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on January 04, 2023, 12:01:51 AM
Agree with you both. I made a pick to extract the spring. It feels great spinning without lubricant.. the gears are unbelievable!!
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on January 09, 2023, 12:56:22 AM
At the insistence of two reel masters. Fred and Tommy the Zangi rotor plunger spring was retrieved using a modified fishing hook. This Delfino reel was a real learning experience and the marvel of old type engineering and manufacturing.
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: foakes on January 09, 2023, 12:59:46 AM
You are becoming quite the "Reelsmith", Dr.!!

Best, Fred
Title: Re: Help on zangi delfino. Rotor removal
Post by: Fishgolfman on January 09, 2023, 02:57:48 AM
Finished product! Still needs internal lubrication of light grease. It reels so smoothly Without grease.  This is going to surf fishing spring 2023.  Thanks Fred and Tommy. I am going to tackle all Zangi reels i can get my hands on! See my most recent New Zangi thread.