Can any reel with a chrome over brass spool be used for wireline? Would an older jigmaster be a good choice? I know a lot of people like the 113h for wire. Anyone else try a different reel?
The chrome spools, if I recall correctly are 3-piece. I would not recommend it. I also think that the jigmaster would be too small for wirelining...but I have never done that type of fishing, so cannot comment positively. Just seems like you'll be outgunned.
Thanks Bryan, I don't have much experience with wireline either. I've used it about a dozen times on my friends boat and I want to try it on mine now. It's a pretty cool technique. It mimics a lobster in the sand.
Hi fatstriper --
You could consider a Penn 349 Master Mariner --
These are designed for wire trolling, lead core, or Dacron line.
Comes with a narrow, high, one piece spool.
Larger drags, either 2.5 or 3.25 to 1 gears, engaged reverse gear lever to prevent stripping of gears when letting heavy wire tackle out, double rings, harness lugs, heavier bridge.
These can be picked up fairly reasonably, and if one desires, there are some great upgrades that you would not spend too much for (cf & SS drag stack, greased), etc.
The 349 is a cut above the 149 and 49 -- just like a Senator is a cut above a Long Beach.
Best,
Fred
Sounds like a good winter project ;D. I saw a guy selling one on Ebay a little ways back. Does the narrow spool help with the wire?
Yes,
The narrow spool (1 5/8" wide) handles the wire much better since the weight of the wire is piled up higher in a straighter line. And the weight of the wire helps with the rotation of the spool.
A wider spool would have more retrieve issues to deal with. Narrow is much better and stronger with the right one-piece spool.
If you go this route -- show us some photos.
Best,
Fred
Hey fatstriper, it's Richy from New Jersey. Been fishing wire line up here in Raritan Bay for Blues and Stipers all my life. I have 3 Master Mariner 349's set up with wire and a spare 113H also. Mostly do trolling in the spring and fall for those big Bass with this setup. I run 150' of 30lb. Monel Wire backed up with 30lb. mono. It's great for getting Bunker Spoons or Rigs down about 20'-30'. Has never failed me yet. MOST IMPORTANT is to remember to spool it with your thumb when reeling in and don't give it slack or you're gonna get a bad KINK and it will snap. TRUST ME I know from experience !!! LOL. Love the way the big side plates on the 349's lay right against your arm for great control of the reel when reeling in those 30lb. BASS. Enjoy.
Hey guys, thanks for the tips. I will post up a picture of my setups when I get them.
Richy, it sounds like you have your striper fishing all figured out. I'm just started to get into some new techniques. Not many guys up here troll with bunker spoons or parachutes. I found some good areas where I want to try it out.
I haven't tried the monel wire yet but it seems worth the extra money. I read that it's softer and has less memory.
Do you use the outrodders for your bunker spoon setups?
Hey fatstriper, yes I do use outrodders. Have a guy in our boatyard that's a welder and made some laydown holders that a great for trolling. Gets the lines way out from the boat with my 9' custom trolling poles so I can troll a center pole out the back if I want to without getting tangled. There is a guy from up here that makes and sells a nice set called Tony Maja Outrodders. He's on the web under that name. They fit in your poleholder and lay flat down and tilt up to remove the pole. As for the Monel, it costs a little more but way better than the Stainless wire. A lot less memory and doesn't kink as easy. I also use a 25' leader 60-80lb. mono at the end of the wire with snap swivel. Some guys up here use 300' of wire to get deeper but it's a waste of wire. I use a 2-6oz. beaded drail weight btwn the wire and leader to get down deep, you just have to hand line the leader and fish in. Next time down the boat will take some pics. and post. Good luck fishin.
Hey fatstriper just had another thought for you. If you are gonna go wire line make sure you poles have either Aluminum Oxide or Carbaloy guides on them. Anything else won't last. The wire will cut a grove in the tips on plain stainless or ceramic guides. My first trolling poles were Shakespear model no. BWB 1120 80. They are 8' with aluminum oxide gudies. Fished them for 20+yrs. and still in great shape plus they still sell them for about $75 if you don't want the expense of custom rods. Just an FYI. Richy PS: here's a pic of the rod with a 349 reel. Not the greatest but you get the idea.
Mornin fatstriper. Down at the boat yesterday, too windy to fish so took some pics of my trolling setup to give you an idea. The pole is not my 9' trolling pole just a spare 7' with a 4/0 on it to give you an idea. Safety line hooks to pole to take strain off the pole when trolling and unhooks when reeling in the BIG ONES ! Hope this helps you. Rgds. Richy
Why would a three piece spoil be a problem with wire?
The 3-piece spools generally will tend to spread out --
This is true with the mono lines as they are retrieved under back pressure. The mono tends to wind up very tight -- at a slightly smaller diameter when stretched. Often when the pressure is removed, the line will expand back to its original thickness -- but something has to give -- and it is generally a weaker 3-piece spool.
Sometimes it will just jam up the reel, other times it will damage the reel.
Either way, it will spoil your day.
With the retrieve pressures involved, wire will also spread out a 3-piece spool -- particularly one as narrow and tall as the Mariner series.
Best,
Fred
Fatstriper,
Been wire lining quite a bit in the past 6 years or so. I make my own umbrella rigs and customize my bunker spoons a bit as well to make them swim differently, but am by no means a pro.
When I spool up my 113h's I use 200' of 50lb hi-vis yellow dacron connected by a haywire twist to 300' of 40lb monel and make 3 breaks in the wire (using the dacron for 2' in between each 75' connected from haywire twist to albright knot) . The first at 75', next 150', and 225'. I use a sharpie to change the color of the hi vis yellow so I can tell how much line is out. Mono isn't the right backing for wire as it will eventually have the wire cut into it and it degrades much more quickly than dacron. I find the 349's to be too heavy (esp. top heavy) for our type of fishing. I wind the wire on my reel as I fight the fish so it doesn't bunch up in the center and jam you up to where you'll be hand lining the last 50' because you ran out of room on the spool. Always use the chromed over soils and never the aluminum. I haven't tried the 3-piece spools because of the chance of spreading (like Fred said.) I remove the wire and place it on a spare spool every winter to prevent excess corrosion and retie all knots and heck for kinks. If/when you lose your first cow, you'll see why I do all the extra work. ;)
Also, if you go the 113h route you'll be able to upgrade your 113h's with so many bells and whistles to pump them up to the nines to make sure you can winch in anything you get on the line. The jig master ain't gonna cut it, and either is the 112h (even with ss gears, trust me)
Stick with it! ...it's not like any other fishing out there, so be patient, you'll get the hang of it.
All the best,
Dom
PS- Do as rich said, and get a pair of outrodders and safety lines (Thanks Dominick! ;)) ...they're not optional, they're a necessity!
Do
Where do you get the tube for your umbrella rigs. I make them.
Mike
Mike,
The heavy duty stuff from reefscuba.com... everything else it's Canalrubber.com (it's 3 blocks from my job) I also have a buddy there who takes care of me. There are other sites I've from, but I stick pretty much with those. Bernie's is a bit crazy on there pricing of latex tubing.
I also get my straight wire from Brookfield wire to make the actual umbrella rigs. ;)
Dom
Dom
I just do the Tube Tails rigged with 175# Bead Chain & 7/0-8/0 Limerick Hooks that don't bend. There is about 10 colors including Black.
Mornin Guys. Just gonna put 2 more cents in. Broadway, you're right about thumbing wire back on reel, causes headaches if you don't. Should have splained better about mono to wire connection. I don't tie it direct, I use a small 40lb. Sampro ball bearing swivel btwn mono and wire, it's a lot easier then all the fancy knots for me and has never failed on me in 30+ yrs. of trolling. I also pull off about 50' of the mono at the beginning of each season and retie the barrel. So far the mono's been on for about 10+ yrs. with no signs of degrading. You're right about the 113H tho, a lot of guys up here use them exclusively for trolling they work great, however, my dad's the one that taught me using the 349M's and I guess it's just second nature to me. Cudo's on making your own umbrella rigs. Use to use them all the time when I was a lot younger. Now at 60 yrs. old don't know if I'd be able to reel in a double or triple header of 5-10lb. blues on one of those things! LOL.
If you use hollow Dacron or Spectra you can insert the wire into the braid 4'-5' and serve like a mono to braid connection.
Hey Dom, Thanks for that write up. I learned a lot from that post. I probably will go the 113h route; weight is a significant factor to me. I really like the look and style of the senators. Plus, I don't actually own any 113s yet. The upgrade factor is also huge. I'm going to try setting up the reels like you do.
I'm going to look into make some umbrella rigs too. I didn't know that you could make them from scratch. That should make a good project ;D.
What exactly is a three piece spool. Is that the one that comes of the older 112's?
Fatstriper,
It's my pleasure to help out on a topic that I'm pretty familiar with and have a real passion for.
The umbrella rigs are easy to make once you figure out exactly how ya want 'em. I have a scrap pile like Lee (Keta's dogs) from realizing I didn't like them the way I used to make them, so back to the drawing board. If you need any advice feel free to PM me.
The 3-piece spool isn't something you'll have to worry about with the 113h's because they never made a 3 piece spool for the high speed senators. Yes, the earlier 112's have a 3 piece spool.
The 3-piece spool (2 sides and an arbor in the middle) has a tendency to spread away from each other. I'm not a physics teacher, but I don't think the wire will make spool spread like mono, but I could be wrong there. When I wind the wire on my reel, being there is no stretch it doesn't really squeeze the spool like mono would. I'm not sure how to explain it clearly, but when you wind on your wire you'll see what I mean.
One other recommendation for wire lining is understand it and practice with knowledgable people or by yourself before you start bringing newbies out there to play with wire. It's not brain surgery, but you can have a heck of a bad day with a rookie angler.
Have fun out there,
Dom
I have a bunch of Penn 49 and 149 reels and parts if interested.
Keith
Hey Keith thanks for the offer but I think I'm going to hold off. I'm casually shopping for some graphite 113h reels with the chrome over brass spools. If you have some I might be interested.
Quote from: fatstriper on October 30, 2014, 05:16:48 AM
Hey Keith thanks for the offer but I think I'm going to hold off. I'm casually shopping for some graphite 113h reels with the chrome over brass spools. If you have some I might be interested.
I have that also. I have the reel and 4 NOS bronze/chrome spools..
I just put together the graphite half frame reel with ceramic hybrid bearings and stock drag, bronze gears etc.. The bridge and gear sleeve are new. I can do what ever you want to the reel.
Just a note that the graphite frames are known to get stripped screws going into the frame.
Keith, PM sent.
PM answered and I stripped 2 screws changing the spool..!! I will get that fixed up..
No mention of the Penn 350's.
I wouldn't be surprised if that weird levelwind bar was designed by someone who hated thumbing wire line
It's based on the 200 Surfmaster and most of the parts that Newell made for them can go on the 350.
I have this one tricked out with 100# Power Pro for bridge fishing. Casts like a bomb.
Hey Dom, how do you measure out the wire? Do you just kind of estimate it?
Also, what are you spooling it on for the winter? I was working with some wire today and ended up storing it on an old reel because it was so stiff. For my braid I use an old plastic mono spool with a wooden dowel and a drill; this technique was a pain with this wire. I think it was just regular stainless. I need to get some monel, this stuff had too much memory.
Anyone know a good place to buy some in bulk at a good price?
Hey fatstriper, Richy here. Been using Monel wire for 40+ yrs., way better than stainless. Here's a link that I use. Good price. Have bought it here many times. www.srmo.com. They sell 300 & 600 spools. Some guys up here use 300' on a reel so no measuring. I prefer 150'. Works better for me. We also have marks laid out at my boatyard on the bulkhead wall at 150', 200' and 300'. We hook one end at zero then spool out the length and spool it on the reel. I personal don't take the wire off in the winter. It's been on for about 8+ yrs. with no problem. End of season I wash the reel down good with soap, then let dry and I spray with WD40. Every two yrs. I unspool it then spool it back on the opposite way. I also cut the wraps off ( about 1 1/2" on both ends ) every year and rewrap. Just an FYI, during the season, I keep an old Penn 49 on board with some 30lb. backer on it to build up the spool and spool on two spare precut 150' lengths of 30lb. Monel hooked together with barrel swivels. This way if I loose it on my Penn 349H while trolling, I just spool a length off one to the other and back in business. Hope this helps. Richy P.S. I know I'm gonna get some pokes about leaving the wire on but it's worked for me this long so if it ain't broke I don't fix it !!!!
Fat striper,
I buy my spools at bhptackle.com (basil papas)... They're really good plastic and nice and wide to spool the wire on. I bought a tool called the line spooler from Chatham tackle to remove the wire. While I'm transferring from the reel to the spare spool I have my girl hold the wire with a paper towel drenched in fluid film or boeshield so when it transfers it also get a good cleaning/coating. One reason for removing the wire annually is because if you have trapped salt under the wire by the spool it will corrode your spool. The other reason I have my girl hold the wire with the fluid film paper towel is so she can feel for small kinks, bends, and cuts. If you don't remove the wire you would never know that. Capt rmf, does what works for him and I do what works for me, so you'll have to figure what works best for you. I do flip my wire annually which is why I mark my wire at 75, 150, and 225. I cut off 1 to 2 feet from the front and back. I check all my wire to Dacron connection because sometimes they just don't look like they did in the spring. By the way, boeshield the spool when you do your winter maintenance... A little goes a long way. Srmo is a good source, but I haven't bought it retail for a while. I bought it from a charter captain who got a good deal. I bought a 2500' spool 5 years ago for $180 but that deal is long gone.
To measure the wire I do pretty much what RMF does... I mark the dock at 0 and 75, walk it out 75', make my Dacron to wire connection, crank in the 75', walk off another 75' and repeat until the spool has 300' with a 150-200' Dacron backing. I use 100lb dacron for the backing and 50 lb. dacron for my connections so they fit through the guides better.
Best of luck bro,Dom
Thanks a lot guys.
I had to take the line off regardless but I like the idea of removing it at the end of the year. I like to know what my spool looks like and that's a good point about checking it for kinks. The thing I really like about your setup is if you have a kink you can just cut out a section and reconnect the dacron. That way you don't just waste a bunch of wire.
I found this online but I don't know much about the quality: http://www.eastcoastfishingwire.com/. I might order some and test it out. If so I'll report back.
I think that my friend had monel because his wire felt nice and soft. It definitely is worth the extra money.
Now I need to figure out what I'm going to do with all that stainless I have. Maybe I'll try turning it into bluefish leader?
Quote from: Sudsy on October 31, 2014, 11:56:12 PM
....most of the parts that Newell made for them can go on the 350.
Sudsy, did you have to do any modification to the sideplates so the Newell spacer bar would fit? I tried to fit one to my 350 and the screw holes didn't quite line up.
That's the best part... you only lose 75' instead of 300'.
I just checked out that site you posted and I have to say I'm very curious about the custom I-wire that has no memory ???
Monel is day and night better than the stainless... I hate the stainless and won't fish it any more. The only thing it has going for it is that it's easier to make a haywire twist in because it's stiffer.
Stay well and go get those stripers,
Dom
That's huge. The first time I fished wire, my buddy got a kink and junked the whole spool ???. It seemed like an incredible waste.
There is no price listed next to the I-wire. Maybe I'll shoot that guy an email and inquire about it. If I end up getting some I'll report back. Probably won't be for a while though because the stripers are long gone up here. I'm already getting ready for next year ;D.
Thanks again for the info, I learned a lot.
Looks like we're in the same boat ;)
Preparation is the key to nailing the big ones.
Dom