Pro Challenger 5:1 gears and Bryan's drag kit
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww177/Marc1956/20140823_133024_zpsd0691d5b.jpg) (http://s717.photobucket.com/user/Marc1956/media/20140823_133024_zpsd0691d5b.jpg.html)
I had previously upgraded to Alan SS gear sleeve and Pro Challenger double dogs
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww177/Marc1956/20140823_133558_zps404ffc7b.jpg) (http://s717.photobucket.com/user/Marc1956/media/20140823_133558_zps404ffc7b.jpg.html)
Drag kit fits perfect Bryan
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww177/Marc1956/20140823_134334_zpsb38e3ae0.jpg) (http://s717.photobucket.com/user/Marc1956/media/20140823_134334_zpsb38e3ae0.jpg.html)
With room to spare
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww177/Marc1956/20140823_135021_zps1666f6f6.jpg) (http://s717.photobucket.com/user/Marc1956/media/20140823_135021_zps1666f6f6.jpg.html)
Spacing sleeve that comes with the 5:1 gear on the left, pretty beefy
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww177/Marc1956/20140823_135038_zpsbdbf5407.jpg) (http://s717.photobucket.com/user/Marc1956/media/20140823_135038_zpsbdbf5407.jpg.html)
Ready to install the transmission back in
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww177/Marc1956/20140823_135349_zpsdee0c411.jpg) (http://s717.photobucket.com/user/Marc1956/media/20140823_135349_zpsdee0c411.jpg.html)
Project completed
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww177/Marc1956/20140823_144529_zpsa249dd3c.jpg) (http://s717.photobucket.com/user/Marc1956/media/20140823_144529_zpsa249dd3c.jpg.html)
I get a maximum of 12lb drag, was hoping for more, compared to my 146 with the same kit, higher gear ratio ? Looks like I would have room for extra washer?
Gears are working great, line retrieve from 27" to 33"
Marc..
12# of drag only. I thought that Sal tested with 20# of drag. I will have to check with Sal about that.
Yeah, I've taken my 501 down numerous times, same setup, I haven't been able to hit 20lbs yet either...
Still maxing out at 12-14lbs.
I'm thinking maybe a little more leverage with a bigger star??
We just have to wait until Sal is back online to sort that out.
Use a 505 star and gear sleeve then add spacer washers to the top of the drag stack and I'll guarantee you'll be able to lock the drag solid. ;)
Regardless of the drag numbers. That looks like an awesome build. I have all the parts except for the gears. I will be happy with 14 lbs on a 5:1 Jigmaster. That's something you won't get anywhere else! ;)
You may try using a stock keyed washer for the last washer to increase the height. I got 24# from my 501. I think Sal got 28# and then Broke the pinion gear shortly thereafter.
I thought if there's still room to spare, we're not fully optimized.. but I just haven't gotten around to swapping washer thicknesses yet.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on August 24, 2014, 05:53:15 AM
Regardless of the drag numbers. That looks like an awesome build. I have all the parts except for the gears. I will be happy with 14 lbs on a 5:1 Jigmaster. That's something you won't get anywhere else! ;)
But Daron, I wanna be able to swap a spool of 65lb braid on that and be ready for the stray Dogtooth or GT ;D
Marc, are all of the washers in the same order as a 113h?
Marcq,
Let's wait until Sal is back. His gear sets are on it way to him.
Thanks,
Alan
Sal is out of town. He ask me to let you guy know that to use the PENN tension spring on the star.
Sal will be back next Tuesday.
Put that tension spring inside the reel to build the stack. I put them in the Newell's this way when height is needed in the stack. It will also give you slower ramp up on the drag.
Mike
It looks like another eared washer might fit into the gear, if so you can add 2 more drag washers in the stack. I'd also loose the wavy spring washer and replace it with a Bellville.
If you put in more washers bend the ears down on the last eared washer so it engages the slots in the gear better.
So I tried all the above advice, I'm becoming an expert at taking that thing apart
The best result I could get so far is replace the first drag washer(in the gear) with a thicker one, built the stack up with the bellville on top+ the sleeve and installing the spring washer on the exterior before the star drag. At the minimum drag setting I have a little bit of drag(like it better this way) and a bit better max drag but nowhere near 20lb
Definitely enough room on that gear to have an extra carbontex+washer. And a bigger star drag would help. I would be fine with 12lb at 3/4 drag setting
Marc..
Just realize that the gear that I have are the custom one (thanks Alan for reminding me), they are mill deeper to accommodate two extra washer DOH!!
No wonder I max out at 12lb
Marc..
I just got an email from a member about my spacing sleeve part within the kit. He told me that it seems that Alan Tani's SS sleeve (98-505AT) will not fit my spacing sleeve. He had to use a dremel and grind very slightly down on the inside. Other than that, my spacing sleeve fits all other.
Quote from: Black Pearl on August 25, 2014, 11:55:25 PM
I just got an email from a member about my spacing sleeve part within the kit. He told me that it seems that Alan Tani's SS sleeve (98-505AT) will not fit my spacing sleeve. He had to use a dremel and grind very slightly down on the inside. Other than that, my spacing sleeve fits all other.
He as the fine tooth SS sleeve
I have (98-60AT)course tooth and it fits perfect
Marc..
One of the first thing I mentioned to Alan was that you needed more washers, your picture of the main gear shows the last eared washer is sitting lower than the lip of the gear.
Let us know how much you're getting after you add more washers.
I got 24lbs with mine, but you should keep it at 20lbs or less, that's what Alan and I decided on, that's why I only mentioned 20lbs earlier.
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 26, 2014, 02:22:54 AM
One of the first thing I mentioned to Alan was that you needed more washers, your picture of the main gear shows the last eared washer is sitting lower than the lip of the gear.
Let us know how much you're getting after you add more washers.
I got 24lbs with mine, but you should keep it at 20lbs or less, that's what Alan and I decided on, that's why I only mentioned 20lbs earlier.
Yeah, like I mention earlier I had completely forgotten that I had the custom gear, will let you know how it turns out Sal
Thanks, Marc..
Quote from: erikpowell on August 23, 2014, 11:19:53 PM
Yeah, I've taken my 501 down numerous times, same setup, I haven't been able to hit 20lbs yet either...
Still maxing out at 12-14lbs.
I'm thinking maybe a little more leverage with a bigger star??
I think the star drag of a 309/49 is bigger and would fit but not sure how much bigger
Marc..
Well there you go maybe that's why I had problems with mine. I also have the 98-505 gear sleeve. Why can't the fine thread sleeve be used? What are the problems that it causes? .
Mine seemed to crank very rough with original spacer bars. But I installed a tiburon frame last night and now it seems to be good.
Quote from: garking84 on August 26, 2014, 05:54:40 PM
Well there you go maybe that's why I had problems with mine. I also have the 98-505 gear sleeve. Why can't the fine thread sleeve be used? What are the problems that it causes? .
Mine seemed to crank very rough with original spacer bars. But I installed a tiburon frame last night and now it seems to be good.
I am not saying 98-505 gear sleeve can not be fitted with my custom spacing sleeve. You will need to use a dremel and grind very slightly down on the inside of my spacing sleeve to make it fit.
I have not heard anyone has the same problem as you when the original spacers bars are used.
Thanks,
--Alan
Alan C., keep in mind that this could be just on one, those are made one at a time. I had a sleeve from Alan that didn't fit in your gear ID, I tried another of the same and it did :-\.
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 26, 2014, 09:29:50 PM
Alan C., keep in mind that this could be just on one, those are made one at a time. I had a sleeve from Alan that didn't fit in your gear ID, I tried another of the same and it did :-\.
Understandable. We should just let people aware of it. Just in case.
I just received the gears and the new spacer, thanks Alan, that spacer looks very nice.
As previously stated, I'm not crazy about the Belleville on this reel, it does ok in my 113H and 114H, but never have luck in these, I believe its just too stiff.
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/001_zps34b5f51c.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/001_zps34b5f51c.jpg.html)
with the combination shown above, I was only getting 12lbs, a little more if I turned the star with two hands...no good, so I replaced the Belleville with the Penn tension spring and all was good from there.
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/017_zps493ca2d5.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/017_zps493ca2d5.jpg.html)
If you happen to have the deeper gears you will need (6) washers
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/022_zps770c7147.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/022_zps770c7147.jpg.html)
The deeper gear wall thickness at the base is 1.33mm and here is what works for me in those
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/029_zps2e16ce77.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/029_zps2e16ce77.jpg.html)
If you have the regular gears, the wall is 2.37mm thick and this is what works in those
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/031_zps2212b820.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/031_zps2212b820.jpg.html)
I'm still trying to figure out why the deeper gears where requested, to me they don't help much :-\.
Anyway, I tested the reel with both gears (6 washers & 5 washers) and I got 24lbs at max on both. Keep in mind, Alan Chui recommends 20lbs at full and since he's the one that made these available to us and in charge, we should follow his suggestion.
As you can see, I have a delrin sitting next to the last carbon fiber washer, that is how my reels are set up, one delrin washer under the gear and one just under the last metal washer on top, use whatever you're comfortable with.
Sal
Cool! I'm going to try it when I get my two extra washers
Thanks, Sal
Marc..
Sal, how about Jigmaster 505 or 506?
One at a time buddy ;), tough day at work and I'm tired. I will try that one tomorrow.
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 29, 2014, 12:56:05 AM
One at a time buddy ;), tough day at work and I'm tired. I will try that one tomorrow.
You are like an Iron Man to most of us.
By the way, I tried the combination with the 5 washers as I'm showing on the last pic and added the delrin washer on top, right under the tension spring, the reel feels much smoother.
I believe the delrin washer will be ok there, those are tough, just in case it would need replacement after a season it's not a big deal but I'm thinking you won't need to.
Don't worry about having enough clearance with the extra washer, there is plenty there.
I'm liking this combination best, even better than the deeper gears.
The reel feels very nice and gets to 20lbs by moving the star with my finger, but your fingers might not be as big as mine :-\ ;D... I like it!
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 29, 2014, 01:43:54 AM
but your fingers might not be as big as mine :-\ ;D... I like it!
No kidding!! Looks like you have sasquash fingers ;)
Marc..
Sal, thanks for checking that out for us pal.
If I had your hands I could probably rebuild reels in my sleep ;D ;D
Quote from: erikpowell on August 29, 2014, 06:43:49 AM
Sal, thanks for checking that out for us Sal.
If I had your hands I could probably rebuild reels in my sleep ;D ;D
;D ;D, they're not really that big, somehow they looked huge in the pic and I mentioned it as a joke ;D.
I just assembled the 505, here is what's working for me
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/002_zps4e8777b8.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/002_zps4e8777b8.jpg.html)
six washers and the main gear is a regular, not deeper
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/004_zpsb656fd30.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/004_zpsb656fd30.jpg.html)
again, I prefer to use the smaller tension spring on top, if you would like to use the heavier Belleville, go for it, you might need to remove the top washer to make it work.
I want to point out that anything above the last metal keyed washer on the stack, will only act as a spacer, you could stack metal washers on top of each other, it doesn't really matter.
Unfortunately, Alan's nice spacers will not work in this reel, the hole is too tight
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/003_zps4bba33dd.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/003_zps4bba33dd.jpg.html)
you could make it work if you wanted to, by enlarging the hole with a step drill bit, I'm leaving this one as is because it was a gift from a friend and it's the only 505 I own.
The spacer sleeve will determine how soft you would like your drag at start, I like mine soft, so I used a 10.5mm sleeve. The 11mm will also work giving just a little drag, use what you like best.
I tested the gears before assembling the plate and didn't sound good, but when everything went in, the reel is working nice. I put some line on it and got 22lbs at max, I didn't want to push it further and neither should you.
btw, the kit used is from Bryan, .50mm metal washers and the carbon washers are also .50mm.
Sal
Good Job Sal! ;) That should make it Crystal Clear! with the gears. ;D
I need to get mine ordered.
Just wondering Sal, are you using fine or course tooth gear sleeve and star?
Marc..
Mark, I lost count on my Jigmasters ;D, some have the fine threads and some coarse.
The jigmaster that I'm showing has coarse threads and the 505 fine.
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 29, 2014, 08:26:35 PM
Mark, I lost count on my Jigmasters ;D, some have the fine threads and some coarse.
The jigmaster that I'm showing has coarse threads and the 505 fine.
Do you see any advantage on the two, course vs fine?
Marc..
Some claim they get more travel with the star using the fine threads, I'm ok with either one. On larger reels if the fine was available, I wouldn't be interested in it.
I don't like aluminum stars, but I see some members are still showing them on their reels, if you must go with the aluminum star, don't use fine threads stainless sleeve, the star won't last very long.
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 29, 2014, 09:59:37 PM
Some claim they get more travel with the star using the fine threads, I'm ok with either one. On larger reels if the fine was available, I wouldn't be interested in it.
I don't like aluminum stars, but I see some members are still showing them on their reels, if you must go with the aluminum star, don't use fine threads stainless sleeve, the star won't last very long.
In addition, it is very bad to have aluminum material on stainless steel material. They don't play nice to each other.
Thanks guys
Marc..
Ok, so I received my extra washer from Bryan, keyed, eared and carbontex, I used the carbontex and the keyed, as you can see my deeper gear is now pretty full
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww177/Marc1956/20141003_123743_zpsb5fb34cd.jpg) (http://s717.photobucket.com/user/Marc1956/media/20141003_123743_zpsb5fb34cd.jpg.html)
Compared to this
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww177/Marc1956/20140823_135021_zps1666f6f6.jpg) (http://s717.photobucket.com/user/Marc1956/media/20140823_135021_zps1666f6f6.jpg.html)
My max drag is now 15lb very smooth , with as much force I can put on the star, I'm ok with that. I tried the tension spring instead of the belleville but was not getting any drag at all so I put the belleville back on.
I also tried a bigger star (10-66) but it was too thick, I may shave the sleeve a bit since it is a bit taller then the original but will keep it like this for now
Marc..
Your washers are still sitting low. I bet if you add one of your original keyed washer, right under the tension spring and remove 1/16" from the spacer, you would get to 22lbs.
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 03, 2014, 10:59:51 PM
Your washers are still sitting low. I bet if you add one of your original keyed washer, right under the tension spring and remove 1/16" from the spacer, you would get to 22lbs.
SAl, too low judging from the first picture?
Marc..
I noticed the eared washer is sitting lower than the lip on the gear on both pics, that washer is usually even, followed by a carbon fiber and a keyed washer.
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 03, 2014, 11:36:40 PM
I noticed the eared washer is sitting lower than the lip on the gear on both pics, that washer is usually even, followed by a carbon fiber and a keyed washer.
Ha! I see what you mean
So starting at the gear
Carb
earded
carb
keyed
carb
eared
carb
keyed
carb
earded
carb
keyed
Yup!! fits better
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww177/Marc1956/20141003_171712_zpsd1e0929a.jpg) (http://s717.photobucket.com/user/Marc1956/media/20141003_171712_zpsd1e0929a.jpg.html)
Marc..
Well!! It worked ;D But I chickened out at 20 ::)
Thanks Sal & Bryan, the beer is on me, send me the bill 8)
Marc..
Im the same Marc
I have found testing max drag can break things
scales
rod holders.....