I've been doing this the past couple of seasons and I just don't want to fish rockfish any other way anymore. Between the fidgety method of presentation, and the fight on light rods, to the direct connection to the fish without a heavy sinker in the way, there's no turning back for me.
Went out of Half Moon Bay and it was quick and easy limits of big Coppers & Vermilions, too quick & easy, and were twice the size of the other anglers using conventional RF methods. Most of my limit was in the 4-5lb range. Good day on the water, just too short cause we limited so fast.
(https://i.imgur.com/OGFEC3L.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NgwpyRT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jcGWbT7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HZefCUj.jpg)
Gear:
Shimano Grappler slow J rod
Accurate Valiant 300
Nice catch !
Nice going Proteus!
"NINJA",
I had similar experience here on the East Coast fishing for Black Sea Bass. Difference is that I tied my leader to the lure where the hook meets the lure (the ring attached to the hook) which translate to the opposite end of where yours is tied in the picture. Same size and shape lure as yours, only different in coloring. This was my first year trying this method and I was somewhat reluctant to switch away from FRESH Bait, but the results were amazing!!!! You could say I put on a clinic for those around me (which is unusual). The lure got slammed on EVERY drop, and as you stated, by the Larger fish of the school, while those around me did not fare that well with their Baited hooks. I limited out, and they went home with fillet! And an OLD DOG can learn new tricks! :)
Rockfish, i am interested in slow pitch fishing. What lures do you recommend and do you tie directly to braid?
What's the difference between slow pitch jigging for rockfish and fishing a fig for rockfish? The last several years I've been using 3-5 oz maga baits, a calcutta 300 with 20lb braid and a 9' cousins 908xf. I usually don't used any bait. I went yesterday and did pretty good. Pretty much the same thing isn't it?
Nice fish. Please excuse the ignorance of a foreigner, but what is a "rf" and what is a "fig"? Also, is a rf or a fig more likely to snag? I know what slow pitch jigging looks like from the videos, but I don't know what it feels like. Is it just bumping?
-steve
Sabaman1 - I use fluoro topshot, the connection is to a solid ring attached to the split ring. It's a bit involved, look up "Japanese Angler Secrets" for setups & info, or just web search Slow pitch jigging. As for what jigs?.... Welcome to the rabbit hole.
https://www.okhaen.net/the-100-best-vertical-jigs
Swami805 - I've no idea what a maga bait is & figs=jigs? All I can say is the slow pitch rod is pretty unique in being really light & really powerful for what it looks like, but the most important thing is that the design of the blank makes this type of jigging action easier to perform.
oc1 - RF=Rockfish, Figs are a great fruit so ??? I fished all day and didn't lose a single jig, as soon as I hit bottom I start the slow pitch. If I feel I've gotten out of the strike zone I'll re-drop or re-cast but I was hitting them 10-20 cranks up and in mid water.
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 01, 2020, 12:22:33 AM
I've been doing this the past couple of seasons and I just don't want to fish rockfish any other way anymore. Between the fidgety method of presentation, and the fight on light rods, to the direct connection to the fish without a heavy sinker in the way, there's no turning back for me...
WOW, I see what you mean -- THAT'S INSANE!!!
specifically, the "rod-to-lure ratio" :o
those are heavy deep-water jigs up to 5 oz. -- correct?
are the the rods strictly vertical drop-n-jig, or can you also cast 3+ oz.?
Quote from: philaroman on November 01, 2020, 06:34:30 AM
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 01, 2020, 12:22:33 AM
I've been doing this the past couple of seasons and I just don't want to fish rockfish any other way anymore. Between the fidgety method of presentation, and the fight on light rods, to the direct connection to the fish without a heavy sinker in the way, there's no turning back for me...
WOW, I see what you mean -- THAT'S INSANE!!!
specifically, the "rod-to-lure ratio" :o
those are heavy deep-water jigs up to 5 oz. -- correct?
are the the rods strictly vertical drop-n-jig, or can you also cast 3+ oz.?
Designed for jigging, I underhand cast due to party boat regs. As for weight, because all this mostly comes out of Asia it makes you work & think metric so I'm losing my oz thing. These jigs range all the way up to 400gr or more, good to have a conversion chart bookmarked on your computer.
The easy part is getting the right jig for the right depth, the equation is grams=feet so being a pest to the captain at how deep you are is crucial.
-"How deep are we now skipper?"
- ..... "I just told you a few minutes ago ...... grrr .... wknd warriors."
misspent youth... easy ballpark oz=>g conversion :o
love the idea of slow pitch, but can't justify expense for rare use
need alternative almost-vertical land-based applications
I grasp the basics -- let's say I get ML for well under 300'/300g
could I also use the rod to cast 50-100g a reasonable distance?
nothing too snappy or aggressive -- just a respectable overhead load/unload
Quote from: philaroman on November 01, 2020, 05:45:41 PM
misspent youth... easy ballpark oz=>g conversion :o
love the idea of slow pitch, but can't justify expense for rare use
need alternative almost-vertical land-based applications
I grasp the basics -- let's say I get ML for well under 300'/300g
could I also use the rod to cast 50-100g a reasonable distance?
nothing too snappy or aggressive -- just a respectable overhead load/unload
C'mon, with all the $$ we spend on gear? One more rod isn't gonna kill you....... ;D
It's a tool, with a specific job, presentation. Trying to make it do more than it was designed isn't a wise approach IMHO, and it's
NOT for land based anything, a pure boat rod.
The real Japanese rods are very expensive, but there are cheaper alternatives on the market from China & Korea, and both Penn & Daiwa offer newly released affordable SPJ rods.
Steve & Swami:
Check this out for an explanation that should fill in some gaps:
http://www.anglers-secrets.com/slow-pitch-jigging/ (http://www.anglers-secrets.com/slow-pitch-jigging/)
----------------
My (slightly contrarian) take:
Basically a style of vertical (drop and retrieve) jig design that optimizes the action for both the drop and a pump and wind retrieve. Slow pitch is a bit of a misnomer, Maybe a translation issue?
----------------
Rods
The extra bendy rods enable the lure lifting motion to last longer while the rod unloads. Folks that are really into this focus on creating a magic combination mixing lift, unload, and winding.
Rod makers are heavily promoting slow pitch, and will try to convince you that you need a special reel and lots of different rods for different sized jigs and actions. I have just one jigging rod that I cannot stand using. I agree with Tony: these are specialized tools. I find that this style of rod sucks for casting, fighting fish, shaking a jig off a snag and so on. But us haters are definitely in the minority, so don't listen to me if this is something that you want to try. :)
The deeper you are fishing and the stronger the current, the less a bendy rod can affect jig action. You bend the rod, and the friction/bow on the line eats it all up before the jig moves. Also if you are fishing with very slow drop flutter jigs that get bitten on the drop, the rod action does not come into play. All those bluefin guys that are dropping those butterfly (flatfall) jigs are not using a slow pitch rod, and would regret it if they did. So you don't need a slow pitch rod to fish a slow pitch jig. In some cases, a standard casting or rail rod might be a disadvantage to working the jig, but not all. I would like to see an underwater video of an expert working a slow pitch jig on different rods, and see how much the action actually changed.
---------
Jigs
I am a big believer in the jigs. But one thing to remember: There is no free lunch. The more wobble or flutter on the drop, the slower the drop. And wobble and flutter on the retrieve will cause the lure to carry and lift faster in the current, making bounce jigging more difficult.
The jigs can roughly be broken down into how fast they fall. The flutter (AKA flatfall) jigs are at the very slow end, and those long knife jigs are at the very fast drop end. I kind of like the middle range. All of the jigs that I have seen have roughly the same density. A large/heavier jig will sink faster, but it is the action that most influences the drop rate.
I have been messing with this jig style a bit. I have designed and tested three so far. Ther are so many different jigs available that there are not many niches to fill, but I still find it worthwhile from a learning perspective.
Flatfall jigs work really well closer to the surface, spending more time falling at any depth, but they do their work and get bit mostly on the drop which is a bit passive for my taste.
The flatfalls work just as well near the bottom, IF you can reach it. And since they drop slowly, they have a nice combination of lots of flutter and slow movement, which means a rockfish/lingcod can run them down. I am not sure that I would want to be elbow to elbow on a partyboat with everyone deep dropping flat falls.
Many of the slow pitch jigs can be worked horizontally as a cast and retrieve lure, especially if you are wiling to work them like a lead head (wind a bit, let it drop a bit, repeat). The flatfalls work nice this way for ambush predators that do not want to leave structure. If you prefer a lure that works like a classic SoCal iron that keeps moving, my experience has been that the classic SoCal irons or something like a waxwing that was designed for for constant wind tend to work better.
RANT: I cannot stand those stylized eyes on slow pitch jigs. If the eyes do any good to get a lure bit, they need to look like eye that can be discerned easily by a fish that doesn't read a lot of Japanese comic books.
The best 100 vertical jig article is a nice read with good photos, and some classification. I personally would not put much weight in the ranking and observations. 500 lures over 2500 hours comes out to an average of 5 hours per lure. That five hours is supposedly includes testing in multiple environments, time of day, season, etc. Not enough time. Now toss in confirmation bias (reaching for a favorite in favorable circumstances). I have found that when testing lures or flies, if you don't rigorously rotate through a small set of options at fixed short intervals, you end up fooling yourself pretty quickly by falling in love with the one that happened to get bit first.
-J
I object: the "RANT" was way too short
Anime Anchovy & Hentai Herring deserve more comment
Quote from: philaroman on November 01, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
I object: the "RANT" was way too short
Anime Anchovy & Hentai Herring deserve more comment
Ask and ye shall receive.
New species: Clupea hentaius
Say what you will about big Hentai eyes but my jigs with big eye dots get bit the most over the ones without. Just my observation over the past 2 seasons.
I don't think the action is any different, it's just easier to do with SPJ rods, more efficient, less fatigue, etc.
As for getting hits on the fall, I hear a lot of people using them say that but yesterday my whole limit was bit during the pitch.
I understand being contrarian, that's my mindset most of the time, this technique & system has completely changed the game for me.
Great job,,,,,, :D jigging is a little more difficult,,,,but it you got it down pat,,,,,,,,, ;D
love BIG EYES... I (prob. Dave, too) pref. realistic over stylized
unless you say, from experience, that painted-on splotches work as well...
whatever eye is bigger, rather what looks more real
Quote from: philaroman on November 02, 2020, 02:25:18 AM
love BIG EYES... I (prob. Dave, too) pref. realistic over stylized
unless you say, from experience, that painted-on splotches work as well...
whatever eye is bigger, rather what looks more real
I was in that camp for a long time until one year the stripers came in the bay really thick. My friends would go for all the realistic looking swimbaits, while I gave them a run for the money using a Kastmaser with a bucktail all year. Not very realistic looking and it slightly edged them out, it was all about the movement.
I believe when it comes to SPJ it's all about the flutter movement & glow pattern, when the thing is flashing in front of them and they see something that resembles an eye they go for it. I have several jigs with bite marks mostly around the eye.
There's an outfit in Florida that makes a realistic slow jig but it's not very popular, mostly the wierd looking stuff is what works & sells I guess.
I only meant realistic eyes, but I see your point
plenty species have plain 'ole big dark spot/halo on the tail,
to fool predators into not going for the head
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 02, 2020, 02:50:09 AM
Quote from: philaroman on November 02, 2020, 02:25:18 AM
love BIG EYES... I (prob. Dave, too) pref. realistic over stylized
unless you say, from experience, that painted-on splotches work as well...
whatever eye is bigger, rather what looks more real
I was in that camp for a long time until one year the stripers came in the bay really thick. My friends would go for all the realistic looking swimbaits, while I gave them a run for the money using a Kastmaser with a bucktail all year. Not very realistic looking and it slightly edged them out, it was all about the movement.
I believe when it comes to SPJ it's all about the flutter movement & glow pattern, when the thing is flashing in front of them and they see something that resembles an eye they go for it. I have several jigs with bite marks mostly around the eye.
There's an outfit in Florida that makes a realistic slow jig but it's not very popular, mostly the wierd looking stuff is what works & sells I guess.
Agree on "realism" not mattering. It is really hard to override our bias favoring what looks good to humans. Visual acuity in rockfish is not very good, not that great for stripers either, plus you have to think about the water clarity and available light. Having high acuity is actually a trade off, giving up some sensitivity. Realism and fancy paint jobs is mostly for catching humans in tackle shops. Profile, size and and contrast matters. My theory is to focus on what the fish can see.
The wiggle can be felt by the lateral line somewhere around 6 foot distance, plus the varying profile and flash from a wiggle might be a clue for the fish that it is seeing distressed prey and not just a drifting chunk of seaweed. Only the first fish to the prey gets to eat, so anything that signals an easy meal is worth trying in my book.
Regarding eyes: The prevailing wisdom is that locating the eye helps the predator tell one end of the prey from the other. If the prey item is a fish, it will go forward to escape. Most fish don't do reverse very well. So a predator will attack toward the head, and the black pupil is the cue for which side is the head. So if a predator knows where the head is, the target might be more attractive. Nobody knows for sure what a fish is thinking, but there are some clues in nature. Some more sedentary species will have false eye spots toward the tail, often a bit bigger than the real pupil (e.g. redfish).
Schooling baitfish often have the spot just back of the head. The theory is that in a tight packed school, all the eye dots make it hard to single out a target. Two "eyes" nearby are more confusing than one at each end in this situation.
So on a lure, a black spot might help, especially in terms of directing the bite towards one end of the lure. A real iris does not glow but is more reflective than the rest of the fish, so a glow iris on the eye might provide some contrast to better define the pupil.
I tend to go a bit big on the pupils in my designs, without going overboard. I don't like super reflective irises on my flies, but care less on lures. I am not big on lots of glow on lures, but that is mostly because most bait species don't glow like a flashlight. YMMV
Tons of good papers on fish vision and a some on hearing, lateral line and smell. Unfortunately most journals trap the research behind a paywall. >:(
Not all slow pitch jigs get bit mostly on the drop. but the flatter the fall, the more likely a drop bite. I have witnessed this over and over again. The first couple winds can still be a drop bite by the way. But it does make sense that rockfish will bite on the wind on a flatfall, especially if you are bouncing bottom a bit. I don't fish flatfalls for rockfish, so now I am kind of intrigued by your observation.
Thanks for starting this thread. Hopefully some of the folks that fish flatfalls for tuna can add their thoughts as well. They do some interesting rigging, like bridle rigging a big circle hook above a flatfall. This could be interesting to try in other situations.
-J.
I don't know man. I'm ready to call it bunk. I don't know the first thing about rockfish, but have some acquaintance with the black sea bass/snapper/grouper complex in the Gulf and S. Atlantic. They and rockfish seem to fill a similar niche.
Anyway, people have been vertical jigging with Kastmasters, Hopkins spoon, diamond jigs and ther such metal for about a century. Albeit, the spoon or jig is likely to be tipped with a strip bait teaser., but it's not high-speed jigging. Like Sheridan says, you see soft baits doing the same thing now days.
Perhaps slow pitch jigging is not a new invention but a fad. Perhaps it's nothing more than a renewed appreciation of good presentation.
The use of an assist hook is something new though. It is new in jigging and it's new in plugging, live lining and other techniques.
I guess another new thing is fighting fish with a grossly under-powered rod. In the the link above, the guy is pointing the rod at the fish and pulling up with the reel. Might be new. but it's also stupid.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on November 02, 2020, 06:07:56 AM
I don't know man. I'm ready to call it bunk. I don't know the first thing about rockfish, but have some acquaintance with the black sea bass/snapper/grouper complex in the Gulf and S. Atlantic. They and rockfish seem to fill a similar niche.
Anyway, people have been vertical jigging with Kastmasters, Hopkins spoon, diamond jigs and ther such metal for about a century. Albeit, the spoon or jig is likely to be tipped with a strip bait teaser., but it's not high-speed jigging. Like Sheridan says, you see soft baits doing the same thing now days.
Perhaps slow pitch jigging is not a new invention but a fad. Perhaps it's nothing more than a renewed appreciation of good presentation.
The use of an assist hook is something new though. It is new in jigging and it's new in plugging, live lining and other techniques.
I guess another new thing is fighting fish with a grossly under-powered rod. In the the link above, the guy is pointing the rod at the fish and pulling up with the reel. Might be new. but it's also stupid.
-steve
There is definitely a ridiculous amount of hype involved, even by fishing tackle standards. The whole jigging system with specialized reels,rods, hats and underwear is definitely overkill. But there are things that you can do with these jigs that you cannot do with a diamond jig, Kastmaster, Hopkins, or Salas.
I was just about to agree with you on the rod, but then remembered that open water fly fishing (which I lurve) also falls into the "grossly underpowered rod" category. Glass houses, you know.
-J
Quote from: oc1 on November 02, 2020, 06:07:56 AM
I don't know man. I'm ready to call it bunk. I don't know the first thing about rockfish, but have some acquaintance with the black sea bass/snapper/grouper complex in the Gulf and S. Atlantic. They and rockfish seem to fill a similar niche.
Anyway, people have been vertical jigging with Kastmasters, Hopkins spoon, diamond jigs and ther such metal for about a century. Albeit, the spoon or jig is likely to be tipped with a strip bait teaser., but it's not high-speed jigging. Like Sheridan says, you see soft baits doing the same thing now days.
Perhaps slow pitch jigging is not a new invention but a fad. Perhaps it's nothing more than a renewed appreciation of good presentation.
The use of an assist hook is something new though. It is new in jigging and it's new in plugging, live lining and other techniques.
I guess another new thing is fighting fish with a grossly under-powered rod. In the the link above, the guy is pointing the rod at the fish and pulling up with the reel. Might be new. but it's also stupid.
-steve
Oh quite the contrary my friend, cranking them up with a top notch jigging reel is by far so much more efficient than lift & crank fighting. Watching & feeling the rod dance with the head shakes while you bring it to the boat is great.
Like I said before, I'm a skeptic by nature, old school in a lot of angling, but this is a lock for me and no way a "fad".
Here's some vids out of Japan & Florida that display the techniques & results, you be the judge if it's innovation, old hat, or just some way to sell more fishing gear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMUH4nxc_2k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xchA7sobfME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db3xy6RmInY
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 02, 2020, 07:58:36 AM
Oh quite the contrary my friend, cranking them up with a top notch jigging reel is by far so much more efficient than lift & crank fighting. Watching & feeling the rod dance with the head shakes while you bring it to the boat is great.
I think that maybe that jigging setup came with a package of Koolaid ;D
A jigging reel is just a normal conventional reel on the narrow side. And take it from someone who has pulled on big fish with a bendy rod, it is not more efficient than a standard rod by any stretch of the imagination.
Now, you might find that it is more fun (and that is the best argument in favor of any style of fishing) but it is not more mechanically efficient. The bend in the rod stores and then release your effort to lift the fish without doing any lifting That is pretty much the definition of wasted effort If you see videos of large powerful fish on jigging rods (not groupers that float up once the swim bladder starts expanding, you will see that they use a point and wind technique, complimented with pulling the reel toward the body to gain line for winding (arm pumping).
If the fish is too big to wind directly in, you have to do some sort of pumping. If the fish is straight down, you have to lean over the rail and lift vertically, which is hardly ergonomic or mechanically efficient (ask me how I know). Once you get the fish near the boat, having a stiffer rod to guide the fish in for landing is essential. If you short stroke a stiffer rod on the pump, you don't have to deal much with the negatives of leverage. At higher drag settings, there is plenty of spring still available in the rod, which really wears down a fish and minimizes the risk of breaking off or opening up the hook hole.
It won't matter so much for winding in a 3 lb Copper rockfish that does not put up much of a fight, but try a 30 lb yellowtail of a 50 lb yellowfin on the same rod.
I am with you on the jigs, but the rods are a compromise, giving up many useful aspects in order to provide that slow soft bend that will in theory help the jigging action. Plus the extra fun that some folks get by putting a big bend in the rod from a smaller fish.
My theory is that part of the allure of this style of fishing is that the rod makes a small fish feel like a big fish, which can be a popular antribute in one of the many depleted fisheries on this planet.
So what was the jig that you were using, or is that a secret ? :)
-J.
I can't help but think of our photo of the month. Lee trying to pull a tuna out of the mouth of a shark with a slow pitch rod.
This is actually all good news for me. On my way to a productive flat I routinely pass over a ledge but it's only fifty feet. The rig in hand is a 10-11 ft fly rod blank built for baitcasting. If you want a rod that loads easily and takes some time to rebound, then this is it. I'm sure to try slow pitching a small jig next time.
-steve
Quote from: jurelometer on November 03, 2020, 04:36:53 AM
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 02, 2020, 07:58:36 AM
Oh quite the contrary my friend, cranking them up with a top notch jigging reel is by far so much more efficient than lift & crank fighting. Watching & feeling the rod dance with the head shakes while you bring it to the boat is great.
I think that maybe that jigging setup came with a package of Koolaid ;D
A jigging reel is just a normal conventional reel on the narrow side. And take it from someone who has pulled on big fish with a bendy rod, it is not more efficient than a standard rod by any stretch of the imagination.
Now, you might find that it is more fun (and that is the best argument in favor of any style of fishing) but it is not more mechanically efficient. The bend in the rod stores and then release your effort to lift the fish without doing any lifting That is pretty much the definition of wasted effort If you see videos of large powerful fish on jigging rods (not groupers that float up once the swim bladder starts expanding, you will see that they use a point and wind technique, complimented with pulling the reel toward the body to gain line for winding (arm pumping).
If the fish is too big to wind directly in, you have to do some sort of pumping. If the fish is straight down, you have to lean over the rail and lift vertically, which is hardly ergonomic or mechanically efficient (ask me how I know). Once you get the fish near the boat, having a stiffer rod to guide the fish in for landing is essential. If you short stroke a stiffer rod on the pump, you don't have to deal much with the negatives of leverage. At higher drag settings, there is plenty of spring still available in the rod, which really wears down a fish and minimizes the risk of breaking off or opening up the hook hole.
It won't matter so much for winding in a 3 lb Copper rockfish that does not put up much of a fight, but try a 30 lb yellowtail of a 50 lb yellowfin on the same rod.
I am with you on the jigs, but the rods are a compromise, giving up many useful aspects in order to provide that slow soft bend that will in theory help the jigging action. Plus the extra fun that some folks get by putting a big bend in the rod from a smaller fish.
My theory is that part of the allure of this style of fishing is that the rod makes a small fish feel like a big fish, which can be a popular antribute in one of the many depleted fisheries on this planet.
So what was the jig that you were using, or is that a secret ? :)
-J.
It is physically easier to point & crank than it is to lift & crank, I'm old with bad discs and its obvious to me.
We don't get Yellowtail or Yellowfin up here, if you look at my report it was about rockfish, although I've pulled lingcod with this method and still didn't have to lift & pump.
I never liked Koolaid, even when I was a kid.
... and I only give out jig info to true believers. ::)
Here's some mega baits, 3.5 oz to 6 oz. pretty similar except for the shape, not as much flutter on the sink I'd imagine and a treble on the bottom. I haven't lost one for a couple trips since it's easy to tell the difference between a fish and a snag with braid. I'd say 90% of bites are on the drop
I use a 9' rod rated 12-30lb with a soft tip but plenty of backbone. The advantage of the longer rod is a higher lift for jigging and having the line a little farther away from the boat
I was fishing next to a guy a couple trips ago who was slow pitching and had all the equipment, it looked fun and we had about the same results. His rod was bend thru to the handle so he was straight grinding the fish up.
It looks like a fun way to fish for sure and your results speak for themselves. I have a couple seeker hurcules rods that are pretty parabolic, I'll have to give those a try.
Quote from: Swami805 on November 03, 2020, 12:15:58 PM
Here's some mega baits, 3.5 oz to 6 oz. pretty similar except for the shape, not as much flutter on the sink I'd imagine and a treble on the bottom. I haven't lost one for a couple trips since it's easy to tell the difference between a fish and a snag with braid. I'd say 90% of bites are on the drop
I use a 9' rod rated 12-30lb with a soft tip but plenty of backbone. The advantage of the longer rod is a higher lift for jigging and having the line a little farther away from the boat
I was fishing next to a guy a couple trips ago who was slow pitching and had all the equipment, it looked fun and we had about the same results. His rod was bend thru to the handle so he was straight grinding the fish up.
It looks like a fun way to fish for sure and your results speak for themselves. I have a couple seeker hurcules rods that are pretty parabolic, I'll have to give those a try.
Casting jigs is what they call them here, cause you can cast them from shore or boat. They do flutter, just a bit faster, I use a 40gr off a pier to work on my pitch, works on juvenile predators down at the pilings.
You can get your feet wet with any decent conventional and whatever parabolic rod you have until you decide if you want a dedicated jigging rod, but flatfalls are pretty unique. Jigging World & others have inexpensive ones that work probably as well as the overpriced stuff from Japan, (I have both) but i think that's the starting point cause they all act differently in the water.
(https://i.imgur.com/akueRVl.jpg)
Here's what I'm working with, some of it's one drop bang, some is window dressing, and 50% hasn't gotten wet yet because by the 2nd or 3rd jig I try I find the one they want and it gets pretty automatic. The double assist hook thing pretty important too, I found about 75% of my last limit hit the top hook at the eye.
(https://i.imgur.com/n01ZP7M.jpg)
bluefin killer......
this slow pith jigging is really cool, I dont have a proper setup for it but I have a trevala rod with my trinidad 16 that I use from time to time with jigs with assisted hooks, flatfalls and sometimes those megabait that Sheridad use.
a proper slowpitch rod will bend more than the trevala rod and are thinner (my trevala is 5.5ft XH model).
these are some pics of my 4 o 5oz jigs with some rockfish and a small YT
Quote from: steelfish on November 03, 2020, 05:43:39 PM
this slow pith jigging is really cool, I dont have a proper setup for it but I have a trevala rod with my trinidad 16 that I use from time to time with jigs with assisted hooks, flatfalls and sometimes those megabait that Sheridad use.
a proper slowpitch rod will bend more than the trevala rod and are thinner (my trevala is 5.5ft XH model).
these are some pics of my 4 o 5oz jigs with some rockfish and a small YT
That's exactly the rod that got me started on this. Still use it for shallow water ultra light.
Tony, nice work on the pigs! I'm thinking to build a lite jigging rod, maybe not full slow action, but similar weight, to use with my Cortez Squidders where I'm using 30lb PP and 30-40 leader. I have Torium on a heavy ST Croix I built that I use, and also 9500SS on the heavy Trevala butterfly jig rod, but these are overkill on bass and snappas. I want something lighter in hand for 50-120 G jigs.
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 03, 2020, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: steelfish on November 03, 2020, 05:43:39 PM
this slow pith jigging is really cool, I dont have a proper setup for it but I have a trevala rod with my trinidad 16 that I use from time to time with jigs with assisted hooks, flatfalls and sometimes those megabait that Sheridad use.
a proper slowpitch rod will bend more than the trevala rod and are thinner (my trevala is 5.5ft XH model).
these are some pics of my 4 o 5oz jigs with some rockfish and a small YT
That's exactly the rod that got me started on this. Still use it for shallow water ultra light.
trevala 5.8 HX as ultralight rod? dang!
your Shimano Grappler slow J rod looks pretty thin, what are the specs?
I must admit I use my trevala on shallow waters too, kind of heavy for light fish, in the late years I've been downsizing my gear and I have plans (but no time) to build me a light knife jiggin rod and use it with a slow profile reel or my saltist 20h to enjoy more when fishing for 3# - 4# rock fish, what have stoped me abit is that in my local waters there are tons of Sea Lions that go after your fish on every hookup, so the faster your have the fish on the boat the better.
Alex, that's what i want to do with the CC Squidders, which to me is low profile, lol. 3-4 lb fish in 120 feet or less.
i have that same pink jig you have :)
Quote from: steelfish on November 03, 2020, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 03, 2020, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: steelfish on November 03, 2020, 05:43:39 PM
this slow pith jigging is really cool, I dont have a proper setup for it but I have a trevala rod with my trinidad 16 that I use from time to time with jigs with assisted hooks, flatfalls and sometimes those megabait that Sheridad use.
a proper slowpitch rod will bend more than the trevala rod and are thinner (my trevala is 5.5ft XH model).
these are some pics of my 4 o 5oz jigs with some rockfish and a small YT
That's exactly the rod that got me started on this. Still use it for shallow water ultra light.
trevala 5.8 HX as ultralight rod? dang!
your Shimano Grappler slow J rod looks pretty thin, what are the specs?
I must admit I use my trevala on shallow waters too, kind of heavy for light fish, in the late years I've been downsizing my gear and I have plans (but no time) to build me a light knife jiggin rod and use it with a slow profile reel or my saltist 20h to enjoy more when fishing for 3# - 4# rock fish, what have stoped me abit is that in my local waters there are tons of Sea Lions that go after your fish on every hookup, so the faster your have the fish on the boat the better.
Maybe we have different Trevalas, I have the Trevala 'S' which looks like a slow pitch rod, not the one with full handles. It's rated for 168gr jigs *average*, while the Grappler is rated differently with *max* jig weight of 330gr. (Some mfgs use average wt jig ratings, some use max wt jig ratings, makes it hard to figure out what to order sometimes.)
Using the grams=feet depth calculation, I fish the Trevala up to 150ft, and the Shimano for anything beyond that. The sweet spot or best average wt jigs for the Grappler is about 180-260gr from what I feel.
I've heard thru the grapevine that DFG CA may extend the depth for rockfish out to 300ft or more in 2021. I don't want a heavier SPJ rod but using my rod at max jig wt probably won't be much fun or very effective. I'll wait & see B4 I start buying 300 plus gram jigs though.
Quote from: thorhammer on November 03, 2020, 10:00:22 PM
Alex, that's what i want to do with the CC Squidders, which to me is low profile, lol. 3-4 lb fish in 120 feet or less.
i have that same pink jig you have :)
Are the pink ones good on miss hatteras,,,,,,, ;)
Quote from: thorhammer on November 03, 2020, 08:53:09 PM
Tony, nice work on the pigs! I'm thinking to build a lite jigging rod, maybe not full slow action, but similar weight, to use with my Cortez Squidders where I'm using 30lb PP and 30-40 leader. I have Torium on a heavy ST Croix I built that I use, and also 9500SS on the heavy Trevala butterfly jig rod, but these are overkill on bass and snappas. I want something lighter in hand for 50-120 G jigs.
Bass rods are good for that, they just don't have a long butt section to tuck under your elbow to jig properly. If you're building one, you can design it any way you want just using a bass rod blank. More cost effective too, SPJ blanks are stupid pricey and not worth the price being asked, it's because slow jig is a new thing.
We all know when it comes to tech items, a year later everybody & his brother comes out with a cheap version. I think this will be the same.
I heard down here in So Cal they're extending the depth to 600'? ouch my arm hurts just thinking about it but wouldn't mind getting an occasional cow cod
So Mr Ninja how do you like a lever drag for that type of fishing? Is it a hassle going in and out of gear with the lever? I'm liking a bait caster with a thumb bar for all the going in and out of gear to keep contact with the bottom. The shimano Calcuta 800 looks pretty good for that
Quote from: Swami805 on November 03, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
I heard down here in So Cal they're extending the depth to 600'? ouch my arm hurts just thinking about it but wouldn't mind getting an occasional cow cod
So Mr Ninja how do you like a lever drag for that type of fishing? Is it a hassle going in and out of gear with the lever? I'm liking a bait caster with a thumb bar for all the going in and out of gear to keep contact with the bottom. The shimano Calcuta 800 looks pretty good for that
Lever drag all the way. The 3 most popular reels for this is the Valiant, Shimano Ocea, & Daiwa Saltiga for their tight tolerances & lack of backplay on the handle. Makes a difference when jigging for hours.
I don't use reels with thumb press because I use my thumb a lot in casting and controlling descent. A false spool release from a slipped thumb can cost you a fish or even worse, rats nest.
It was an evolution for me, I started out with a Lexa but the casting magnets slowed down the descent and the small spool didn't give me enough torque. Went to my Avets but there's a bit of slop & play in the handle, ended up with a Valiant 300 for this. Lighter than the Saltiga & Ocea and cheaper due to sale price.
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 04, 2020, 12:06:44 AM
Lever drag all the way. The 3 most popular reels for this is the Valiant, Shimano Ocea, & Daiwa Saltiga for their tight tolerances & lack of backplay on the handle.
my poors man reels of choice:
trinidad 16 instead of Shimano Ocea
Saltist 20h instead of Saltiga
nothing on the place of Valiant reel.
2 outta 3, not bad.
Quote from: steelfish on November 04, 2020, 12:22:35 AM
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 04, 2020, 12:06:44 AM
Lever drag all the way. The 3 most popular reels for this is the Valiant, Shimano Ocea, & Daiwa Saltiga for their tight tolerances & lack of backplay on the handle.
my poors man reels of choice:
trinidad 16 instead of Shimano Ocea
Saltist 20h instead of Saltiga
nothing on the place of Valiant reel.
2 outta 3, not bad.
Whatever gear you go with, one thing is for sure, you are in the prime area for this technique, which works best in smooth seas. The Sea of Cortez has some of the calmest waters in this part of the world when it comes to waves & swell from what I see.
This thing came out of Asia, and took hold in Florida in the US first, both mostly calm water areas. Up here near SF CA the swell, waves, & wind make it challenging at times.
Keep us up to date on your jigging adventures.
Quote from: Swami805 on November 03, 2020, 11:49:25 PM
I heard down here in So Cal they're extending the depth to 600'? ouch my arm hurts just thinking about it but wouldn't mind getting an occasional cow cod
So Mr Ninja how do you like a lever drag for that type of fishing? Is it a hassle going in and out of gear with the lever? I'm liking a bait caster with a thumb bar for all the going in and out of gear to keep contact with the bottom. The shimano Calcuta 800 looks pretty good for that
600' ? Yeah, right. BUT if it happens I'm calling Hardy Boy Todd and The Boss for a Tanacom! - john
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 03, 2020, 11:30:30 PM
Bass rods are good for that, they just don't have a long butt section to tuck under your elbow to jig properly. If you're building one, you can design it any way you want just using a bass rod blank. More cost effective too, SPJ blanks are stupid pricey and not worth the price being asked, it's because slow jig is a new thing.
We all know when it comes to tech items, a year later everybody & his brother comes out with a cheap version. I think this will be the same.
I just did that with a bass rod, my idea is to use it for something more as "light shallow jigging rod" than a proper Slow Pitch rod, it will be paired with slowprofile reels like the vintage Bantam magnumlite 2000 and/or abu garcia Ultramax XL, both reels have around 9# drag
this rod had a 6" rear grip, I cut the buttcap and inserted a piece of another broken rod to make it 14" reargrip and added a new buttcap, the rod lure weight is 1/4 to 3/4oz but it cast 1oz lures to the moon with no problem, the sweet spot is around 3/4oz.
i took the cheap guides out from it and installed some ALPS double foot and fuji LDBAG 5.5 microguides on the running guides
I dont know how good this rod could be as light jigging rod because it doesnt bend to the grip as normal jigging rods/SPJ rods but wanted to try my luck with a franken-rod before getting a more proper blank for SPJ
Quote from: steelfish on November 09, 2021, 08:57:21 PM
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 03, 2020, 11:30:30 PM
Bass rods are good for that, they just don't have a long butt section to tuck under your elbow to jig properly. If you're building one, you can design it any way you want just using a bass rod blank. More cost effective too, SPJ blanks are stupid pricey and not worth the price being asked, it's because slow jig is a new thing.
We all know when it comes to tech items, a year later everybody & his brother comes out with a cheap version. I think this will be the same.
I just did that with a bass rod, my idea is to use it for something more as "light shallow jigging rod" than a proper Slow Pitch rod, it will be paired with slowprofile reels like the vintage Bantam magnumlite 2000 and/or abu garcia Ultramax XL, both reels have around 9# drag
this rod had a 6" rear grip, I cut the buttcap and inserted a piece of another broken rod to make it 14" reargrip and added a new buttcap, the rod lure weight is 1/4 to 3/4oz but it cast 1oz lures to the moon with no problem, the sweet spot is around 3/4oz.
i took the cheap guides out from it and installed some ALPS double foot and fuji LDBAG 5.5 microguides on the running guides
I dont know how good this rod could be as light jigging rod because it doesnt bend to the grip as normal jigging rods/SPJ rods but wanted to try my luck with a franken-rod before getting a more proper blank for SPJ
I always love a good home spun project, looks like it can be a nice light jigging rod, do a report when you get your first fish on it.
It might not be a legit SPJ rod like you say but a good test run from what I see. Three things I'll mention for you to consider when you find a true SPJ blank for your next project.
- SPJ rods are spec'd with lure weight ratings, (always in grams), make sure to choose the rating that will match most of the depths you'll be fishing. (*the average calculation is gram=foot in depth) Also this rating is completely different than the rating on that bass rod which is spec'd for casting thru air and not jigging thru water.
- Most SPJ rods are extremely minimal in handles & grips to keep it light so you can jig all day without a sore shoulder.
- Virtually no quality SPJ rod has spiral wrapped guides, that's an innovation brought on from the cheap Tsunami slow rods and USA mfgs, and has little benefit for SPJ as you don't lift fish with the rod as much as you crank them up with a quality *ROUND* reel.
Here's an article out of Japan about SPJ rods from the website considered the bible of SPJ.
https://www.anglers-secrets.com/rods-and-reels/
..... as for the "slowprofile" reel, you'll find out very quickly that they aren't the best for this technique. I can be done, but a round reel with better torque power and a large inch per crank rating is the premier setup for slow jigging.
Good luck on the next one and look up Rainshadow slow pitch blanks, they've recently been selling out of Charkbait at a decent price.
Quote from: the rockfish ninja on November 10, 2021, 05:16:50 PM
I always love a good home spun project, looks like it can be a nice light jigging rod, do a report when you get your first fish on it.
..... as for the "slowprofile" reel, you'll find out very quickly that they aren't the best for this technique. I can be done, but a round reel with better torque power and a large inch per crank rating is the premier setup for slow jigging.
Good luck on the next one and look up Rainshadow slow pitch blanks, they've recently been selling out of Charkbait at a decent price.
Just wanted to give that FW rod a new life, if not used much as UL jiiggin rod it will be used for casting light lures from the shore just like fishing for Bass but this time will be for Spotted Bay Bass and sea trout/Curvinas
I think I already commented this, but UC has a blank that was sold for Micro Jigging and some guys are using it for SPJ, its the UC DHX 60H 5.5 tip and 0.35 butt and $90 dlls blank, RS revelation SPJ look good but more expensive, another optios is to build the UC Zeus 1 as SPJ
1 pic UC DHX 60H as SPJ
2 pic comparing blank wall thickness of RS revelation blanks Vs UC 60H
3 pic UC Zeus 1
with my chances on going fishing on the next months Im not seeing myself into SPJ anytime soon, but its good to be well documented on it if I have the chance to pick a blank in a deep black friday discount
about Lowprofile reels, mostly the reason is my smallest casting reel is a Saltist 20h, it feels big on that FW rod but it fit on the reelseat so, who knows maybe it could be used it
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about Lowprofile reels, mostly the reason is my smallest casting reel is a Saltist 20h, it feels big on that FW rod but it fit on the reelseat so, who knows maybe it could be used it
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It took a minute to get used to a large reel on a thin rod, that's why the Valiant 300 & 500n are my go-to reels, lighter than most.
As for choosing blanks for SPJ, all I will say is that it's best to get one from a mfg that has more experience. UC, as good as they are, do not.
I've been doing some SPJ of late and trying some different rods. I built one acid wrapped off of a rain shadow blank and don't card for it much. I'm really liking the older seeker Hercules blanks, the ones made of the old green S glass. I have a 70h, 70l,70xl, 80, 90 and 90h. My favorite so far is the 80 but all of the have a nice moderate action are very thin and light weight. I recently built a seeker tak90, feels good but haven't had a chance to use it. All of them have a place depending on the depth, weight and action of the jig. Still a steep learning curve trying to figure out all the styles of jigs and best way to fish them. Got to get out a few more times this year
Cmon Sheridan, show us build pics of the Seekers!
Quote from: Swami805 on November 10, 2021, 09:50:05 PM
I've been doing some SPJ of late and trying some different rods. I built one acid wrapped off of a rain shadow blank and don't card for it much. I'm really liking the older seeker Hercules blanks, the ones made of the old green S glass. I have a 70h, 70l,70xl, 80, 90 and 90h. My favorite so far is the 80 but all of the have a nice moderate action are very thin and light weight. I recently built a seeker tak90, feels good but haven't had a chance to use it. All of them have a place depending on the depth, weight and action of the jig. Still a steep learning curve trying to figure out all the styles of jigs and best way to fish them. Got to get out a few more times this year
dang Sheridan you are like those Bass guys that have 4-6 same rods rods but with different sizes and action in L, ML, M, MH, H, XH with same reel, just to dont lose time changing the lure because one rod have deep diving lure, medium water lure, surface, worm, etc.
I think I use the same rod for jiggin, trolling, live bait and shore fishing ;D ;D