Here's some more information I have on what is working for me. Using stainless 308 tig rod (weldrod) and the black flux by staysilv and a more powerful butane torch more testing has been completed.
The silver bearing solder wire is approximately 46% silver and quite stiff.
The little butane torch is very powerful, and adjustable flaming, butt he low setting is enough heat for this wire and cantor the wire red quite easily.
This torch can be purchased on Amazon w. Free shipping. It's the 💣 bomb for small yet powerful.
The stainless rings and a few brass rings were soldered and tested. The sst. Rings I couldn't break by pulling by hand using a spring scale in between. 100# plus is ok with me as I generally use 80# spectra.
The brass rings broke at about 60-80# as shown. I now think the brass rings may need a different flux, or silver wire as previous testing seemed to prove a higher test was achievable.
The new torch has the heat capacity at least, so more is planned.
This is possibly helpful to someone, probably boring to the experts. >:(
Good looking soldering, the flux and silver solder you now have should work on brass but I would recommend using only SS rings.
ROSCO butt rings are a tougher SS than the TIG rod. Here is the test I finally did this morning, 175# and no deformation. I guess I don't have to worry about my rings. BTW I randomly picked a ring out of a bunch of them. Excuse the fuzzy photo of the ring, my wife left my camera on the seat of her car last week and did not lock it, I guess someone else needed it more than I did.
I will test some smaller rings when I finish the current job and have time.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/1583_28_12_19_9_35_12.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/1583_28_12_19_9_34_31.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/1583_28_12_19_9_35_40.jpeg)
Lee - THAT is one heck of a stress test. Given how that ring looks at 175# I suspect the crimps would fail before the ring would. And that butane torch looks like a good investment. I have a standard "Bernzomatic" that I have been using for a long time but this one looks more versatile and I suspect MAPP Gas would have an adverse affect on Crème Brulee. - john
I need a bigger scale so I can do a destructive test but I would bet they hold well over 200#.
awesome work Gary and Lee. I feel like I can do this if I can ever get my workbench and tools back. I think they are all quarantined for another 4-5 days. happens every year at the holiday time, My garage gets turned into the family room and all my tools get wrapped up in wrapping paper and look like giant presents and my workbench becomes a Christmas tree stand and O guage train track. I fought to keep them this year, it was a valiant battle and lasted several weeks but in the end I was overwhelmed by the enemy and forced to surrender upon somewhat agreeable terms. 10 days! I had to submit to losing all my things for 10 days. I consider it a partial victory at least, in the past it has been 19-21 days! so I did manage to get my sentence cut in half but it is still painful, having time off work and not being able to even get my hands on any of my fishing projects. Now I have to add train repair to the list of projects. I suppose if I can service a Daiwa or a Shimano I can probably repair a train engine, but I digress.
I am happy to see that a well brazed stainless steel ring can secure two trucks, it should be able to hold a 200lb tuna. Keep the work coming boys its lonely and cold in my garage.
Great work guys. I've been working with silver solder for decades and never would have imagined it works on stainless steel. Thank you for adding another tool to my arsenal.
-Mike
Thanks for the info and photo of your test equipment Lee. Someone stole your phone? Crazy. ??? Incidentally my shop doors are 10 feet wide and I use the posts of a pole barn construction for the sturdy connections and a similar ratcheting hand winch (come along slang?) and a spring dairy scale 240# capacity. If used this for spectra knot testing with friends and my personal stuff.
Butt i,m not home butt in Oregon for the holidays so living with some limitations is both a handicap and challenge. We generally travel with a baggage scale ant it was handy in this application. I,m doing what i can do within reason. As for Dave! :-[
Dave H. you are still a lucky guy to set down your toys for a couple of weeks and eat drink and enjoy life at home. At least your home and thats the best place to be most of the time. You are all lucky to be here on the Tani forum. Thanks again everybody for their help.
I agree there is no reason to continue with the brass rings. My little flame seemed like that was the place to start. Butt now with the new flame with the turbocharger sst heats cherry red quite quickly. My little Merry Christmas to myself gift was worth waiting for. :'(
And Happy New Year to all. :-*
I tested a smaller ring and it deformed, the soldered joint held.
100#
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/1583_01_01_20_7_11_29.jpeg)
150#
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/1583_01_01_20_7_12_42.jpeg)
Hi Gary & Lee, the silver soldering sticks I was referring to have a yellow paint code on the end of them,, I think they are 50% silver, but maybe different country`s have different codes. cheers Don.
Somewhere in the three separate threads this topic evolved into was some valuable information on cleaning the rings prior to brazing? I've looked but can not locate it. I believe it was Steve? If anyone remembers please reference the thread for me.
They can't be too clean David and do the solder shortly after cleaning before a new layer of oxidation forms. I like using one of those really small drum sander dermel bits because they remove the surface and don't just smear it around. Plumbers emery cloth or rat-tail file works too.
When you finish there shouldn't be a bead of solder. Just a slight bulge with the solder tapering off over 1/8 to 3/32" on both sides of the joint. Solder follows heat so waving the torch back and forth will usually pull the solder out away from the joint to make that tapered bulge. Lots of flux too.
-steve
The flux cleans off oxides and if your rings are real bad muriatic acid will clean them.
Thanks for the information everyone. :) I use a simple small stainless steel wire hand brush for cleaning currently. A person might be able to use an acid like lee said if necessary. any mechanical rotory devise needs to be somewhat soft and controllable as these things seem to disappear from the holding.. Like in a welding process the parts have to be clean....
Another thing the testor may want to think about might be multiple or what i,d call chain testing, where you could test at the same time several rings, with a swivel ,or swivels, snaps, a questionable split ring, or even a fishing line knot, or like Lee pictured a crimp and get it all done at once. I think we are in general a proud lot, Butt you don,t know till you really know. ??? ???
Here is one of my disappointments, one would think a quality hook would not deform at 50#.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/1583_05_01_20_10_52_49.jpeg)
Thanks for the cleaning tips! thats what I was missing. plus my torch is not quite enough. it has a pinpoint flame but its hard to heat up more than the very tips of the ring. got a better one on order now, plus a pair of sidecutters that I can easily cut my old rings off with. my handy old craftsmen set that I love so much just wont do it.
Lee:youre gonna need a bigger hook.
Quote from: Keta on January 05, 2020, 05:54:23 PM
Here is one of my disappointments, one would think a quality hook would not deform at 50#.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/1583_05_01_20_10_52_49.jpeg)
Wow! That looks like an Owner hook...hard to believe. Dominick
Glad I got up this morning. :D Thanks Lee for making a diversion from my questions that make people uncomfortable. :)
This is what happens with inquiring minds and idle hands after the holidays. There must be a scientific explanation for the hook nearing the failure. Oar a legal one like "its not a failure as no fish was lost"........ ???
50# is a lot on a 2/0 hook and I am glad the hook failed before my ring. I plan on testing hooks in the future.
That's what I was getting at in my post re testing all of your gear in your setup. I think your rings at 80 lbs or more will not be really worth worrying about. Knots, hooks, rings, line and swivels ....... something has to break first. 50 lbs to bend out a hook you are going to be fishing on 40 or 60 lb flouro is not worth worrying about unless you are going to hand balm in a fish over the rail. Still fun to play around though. Just my thoughts. I would like to see some tests done on gear like jigs and lures and see where failures start to occur.
Cheers:
Todd
Unless I use a pulley and 2 parts of line I am limited to 175#. I am currently searching my shop for a small pulley.
Alot of the commercial longline hooks break or bend in the 350-750lb range. We have some recent testing data but it is not published publically available yet. Though I belive there is some published data available on some of these hooks. Commercial longline hook type, size, and diameters have been regulated so that the hooks are weak enough to release any incidentally hooked Pilot whales (east coast), False Killer whales (Hawaii), and Bluefin Tuna (GOM). Take reduction team reports might provide some insights.
John
Its ok for some tackle to break sometimes, butt when your in the derby and you kinda want to win.
(https://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/b36f8cf195bf24e9eee5212a15c06a80--gone-fishing-fishing-stuff_zps0n1b7lrg.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/b36f8cf195bf24e9eee5212a15c06a80--gone-fishing-fishing-stuff_zps0n1b7lrg.jpg.html)