Well boyos, Penn has lit the forums on fire with the reintroduction of the 704/706Z thrilling old school fans of ultimate reliability and generating naysayers both. Some are looking for an "updated" version from Penn or a variety of modifications that the community has produced over the years.
To be honest I had never used a 704/6Z despite its fame for decades of reliable use in the harshest of fishing reel environments, the surf...so when I get curious I want to tear one down and see what all the "hub-bub" is about. Off I went to the flea-bay to get a beater which usually exposes the flaws in the reel and can serve as an example of what we can expect over time.
Disclaimer: Needless to say, I cannot comment from years of experience servicing this reel to really know it's service idiosyncrasies from decades of use in the surf like some. So, please take with a grain of salt any prognostications I may have and apply your better judgment (and maybe share with us your wisdom) if I lead the gentle reader astray :).
The one I found I got for about $50 and to be honest, it looked better in the photos the seller had posted! I will not offer much of a guess as to how old this model is and I am no expert on the 704Z lineage to sleuth out its age, but it certainly was well used:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_50_174031880.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17404)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_50_174021258.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17403)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_50_174031880.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17404)
:) So, as you can see this one was no display case queen :).
But what immediately impressed me was how smooth it remained with no roughness in the gears or wobble in the spool. The patient looked a little the worse for wear but a strong heart remained :D.
Like most reels it breaks down into 3 or more parts for working on in turn so we'll start by pulling off the spool so that we can get to the Spool Shaft (39) which is the key to removing the Rotor Cup (27) from the Housing with Bushing (1).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_2_15_25_174451412.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17446)
Hmm, looking good...but to remove the Spool Shaft we have to crack the body via the Housing Plate (45) and it's 3 Housing Plate Screws (46):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_2_15_26_174461157.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17447)
Inside we see a familiar appearance if you have ever opened up an old reel: old grease and Stainless and Marine Bronze/Hardened Brass in a bit of a messy state:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_2_15_26_174471421.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17448)
Then, the Spool Shaft disconnects from the Crosswind Arm (43) via the Crosswind Arm Screw (44):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_2_15_27_17448910.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17449)
Letting us slip out the Spool Shaft:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_2_15_27_17449938.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17450)
Which gives us access to the Rotor Cup Nut (38) with the Rotor Cup Washer (37) underneath:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_2_15_28_174511861.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17452)
And we now have our 3 separate components, body, rotor and spool, that we will work on in turn:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_2_15_27_17450955.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17451)
Let's start with the Rotor Cup. Needless to say this is an older design that predates carbon fiber rotors and skirted spools. We can start with the Bail Assembly by servicing the Bail Arm (34) by removing the Bail Arm Screw (31):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_53_174111710.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17412)
Finding the Bail Spring (32) below. Usually you will find that the Spring will come off with the Arm and with one of its ends in the tiny hole in the Arm, but I show the Spring in its proper position for your reference:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_58_17427103.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17428)
The slot for the spring seems to be a good schmutz collector so I'll clean it out:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_54_17414693.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17415)
Beneath the foam "q-tip" is the Bumper (33) and its cup. If yours is beat up it simply pokes out from the other side with a probe then can be replaced (this one I did):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_53_174101365.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17411)
The Line Roller (35) is simplicity itself, removed via the Bail Lock Nut (36) finding the tiny Roller Sleeve (35A) inside:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_55_174171938.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17418)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_56_174202416.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17421)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_53_174121746.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17413)
I go into gory detail here as line rollers are such a common problem area. This is a VERY simple design and regular, liberal use of Corrosion-X on all surfaces will keep it free spinning:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_57_174221968.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17423)
The other end of the Bail Arm is straightforward and similar to replace. Both have to have their springs compressed to allow replacement of their Bail Arm Screw. It's really the only "fiddly" bit on the whole reel. I found it slightly easier if you remove the Bail Release Arm (28) first and the whole removed assembly is shown for your reference. The Arm itself sits in the Bail Release Saddle (28A), pivoting on the Bail Release Pin (29) with the action provided by the Bail Release Spring (30):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_59_17429970.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17430)
Once you remove the Release Arm you'll find a natural spot to collect dirt and sand. Note the little post in the Rotor Cup that supports the Bail Release Spring when you re-assemble:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_57_174242362.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17425)
A thumb is handy to press it against the Spring when it's time to go back after cleaning and lube:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_59_17430154.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17431)
Ok, that's it for the Rotor Cup, let's tear into the Housing :).
With the Rotor Cup removed we see that this one has been neglected. The rubber Rotor Brake (21B) comes up (gently so you don't tear it):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_57_1742575.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17426)
Revealing the pinion Bearing Retainer (21A):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_58_17426267.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17427)
And a very rusty Pinion Bearing (20) :(:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_59_17428986.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17429)
A washer for the 3/8" diameter pinion and replacing the Rotor Cup Nut helped me get a grip on it as it was frozen in its receptacle:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_50_00_174321743.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17433)
The inner race was frozen and the bearing destroyed, but I was curious so I pulled the shield:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_50_17404682.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17405)
This image is after attempts at reconditioning it. No go for sure, frozen with rust. It is worth noting that the pinion itself still turned smoothly with the bearing acting more like a bushing:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_20_31.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17502)
Ok, what to do...what to do? Surfed over to Boca Bearings looking for a 0.3750 x 0.8750 x 0.2812 inch bearing and found a Ceramic one on sale for $11.95 shipped (SR6C-2YS/C3 NB2). A previous user left a review that it worked great in his 704Z so I ordered one.
It came "greased" which means it was incompletely greased on one side and dry on the other :( :(:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_51_174061171.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17407)
So I repacked it properly. Ceramic balls will not rust, but we want to protect the stainless races/cage and not create a path for saltwater to flow into the body.
Popped it into the cup and got a perfect fit :D:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_52_174082384.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17409)
Then replaced the Retainer and Brake. This did not photograph well with a flash but the retainer is well cleaned up with Brasso and a tooth brush and very superficial tarnish remains. It was all replaced well greased:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_50_00_174331923.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17434)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_50_03_174371328.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17438)
On the other side We can easily pull out the Main Gear (8), Ratchet (10) and Main Gear Thrust Washer:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_59_17431801.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17432)
Which after removing the old grease did not show the slightest sign of wear after who knows how long without a single service:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_50_02_17436289.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17437)
This is the Housing with the old grease cleaned out showing the Eccentric (21) assembly. It was in perfect working condition so did not remove it and all it got was a scrubbing with a toothbrush saturated with Corrosion-X. This image is all you should need for assembly. From L to R we have the Eccentric Spring (6D) in proper position leading to the Eccentric (21) with its Eccentric Liner (6D, underneath), the Eccentric acts on the Dog (4) which rests on its Dog Spring (5):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_50_01_174351531.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17436)
To the right of all of that above is one of the brass Bushings (2) that support the handle shaft which had not the slightest wear. I believe these are pressed in the Housing and should rarely need anything more than lube.
Ok, let's put it together starting with a nice coat of grease on the Crosswind Arm (43) making sure to get some on the (rails) that ride against the Housing Plate (45).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_50_03_17438851.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17439)
The Central Grove fits over the Crosswind Roller (14):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_50_01_17434823.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17435)
Like so, all lubed up and ready to close:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_50_03_17439402.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17440)
It really is a marvel of simplicity and gets my vote as the "Penn Senator of Spinning Reels" :D. Other than the Eccentric assembly and some pressed in bushings there are only 6 parts. :D
On the outside we have the Eccentric Lever (21) and Eccentric Screw (22) which just gets a cleaning and lube as needed (best to disassemble with the Housing Plate off, complete removal not shown).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_33_07.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17503)
The grease fitting on the handle stem. Firmly depress the "stopper" and give a little squirt. I prefer a light oil.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_50_04_174402443.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17441)
The handle needs a little (very little) attention. Just make sure that the Handle Washer (17) and threads on the end of the shaft connecting to the Main Gear get some marine grease, the threads and articulating surfaces of the Handle (14) get Corrosion-X.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_35_49.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17504)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_41_31.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17506)
And there is a grease fitting on the knob too:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_40_54.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17505)
Lastly, we have the Spool (47) with the drag stack removed. This was cleaned then re-lubed with Cal's Drag Grease:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_52_17409332.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17410)
Underneath, the Click Tongue (48) and the rest of its assembly, cleaned and lubed as needed:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_54_174131128.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17414)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_54_174151357.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17416)
Nothing to take apart in this older style nob. A touch of oil for corrosion resistance is all that is needed. I believe that the newest style has increased water resistance to keep the stack dry:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_1_49_51_17407330.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17408)
And that's it!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, I have to admit that the Penn Senator is what first got me into servicing my own reels and an appreciation for simple ruggedness and ease of maintenance has persisted.
The Penn 704Z is the embodiment of the Senator in a Spinning Reel.
This is both good and bad :).
It is not the fastest, lightest or most powerful. The 704Z probably makes ~12lbs of drag hammered down (tests tomorrow) just like an un-modded Senator does. Go much higher than that and you probably run into trouble with the Housing plate (plastic) flexing when you try and crank against too much load just like a Senator frame flexes under higher drag causing binding and wear.
So this will never be the reel for duking it out with real big 'uns offshore or in the tropics.
But what it is, is an indestructible tank when fished within its limits or one very economical to keep alive over time.
The current "game" when engineering virtually every other reel these days seems to be "planned failure" where cheaper parts last only as long as it takes for the consumer to get bored and want to go shopping again. A 704/706Z is built to last a lifetime at it's modest drag settings with a top quality stainless and marine bronze drivetrain that simply refuses to wear out.
If your drag needs (~12lbs max) are met by this reel it remains the toughest spinning reel made for the surf or kayak use and will last in those environments longer than anything else for the dollar.
What would I change in the reel (this topic has been hotly discussed given the upcoming re-introduction)? Virtually nothing with a couple of exceptions. Penn has said that there are no planned changes so that there will be complete interchangeability with previous versions. That still gives us some (small) latitude.
1. Drill the Rotor Cup to allow drainage. It lightens something that is quite beefy and let's air dry inevitable collection of water and sand in those pie slices.
2. Seal for the Pinion Bearing. The Pinion is perfectly round here and 1/16" seal could really add protection just put it under the Pinion Retainer, either that or make the bearing a sealed ceramic bearing standard. Or all you have to do is offer one or the other as an accessory (they will not be $11.95 forever at Boca Bearings, word to the wise).
3. OK, ready for pie in the sky dreaming :)? There have been numerous calls for IAR. Well, that would require significant modification...Or would it? What Penn could do (and this really is a revolutionary idea :)), is simply drill out the handle for a larger bushing size. The Housing is sold with the Bushings pressed in. Keep the identical ID so that it is totally compatible with previous versions, but the OD would be one that would easily accept an AR bearing. The modders could then pull the bushing and press in an IAR (or have a shop do it) and everyone would be happy :). Not much if any additional cost to Penn, and the most challenging part of the mod (accurate machining for the bearing) is done for anyone that really wants an IAR.
One can dream can't they :D
best regards
stickied! ;D
John,
Great tutorial as usual! That looks like a good specimen to do some upgrades on. You know... drilling, polishing...
;) ;) ;) ;D
John, always a nice and detailed tutorial. Thank you for all your hard work, Sal
I can see the design similarities between this reel and my Arges 3. As always nice tutorial.
Thx for all the nice words guys! ;D
Quote from: Kyle K on April 12, 2013, 06:34:42 PM
John,
Great tutorial as usual! That looks like a good specimen to do some upgrades on. You know... drilling, polishing...
yea, I think I really don't have a home for this one due to it's size and may do that with a 710. Now that this one is in perfect running order it would make a good project for someone to do the refinishing of the rough cosmetics.
best
John
Leave the reel a little beat up. This way no one will borrow it.
As I tell my wife - Thieves never steal the dirty dishes - just the clean ones.
Mike
You hit another one out of the park Doc! Great tutorial and commentary. Thanks for taking the time.
Great tutorial! Thats a lot of hard work you put in making that. Bob
Great job, I have several of these reels, Sometimes i give them a dunk in the ocean surf to rinse the sand out,when the fish pulls it out of the sand spike.
Hose them off in freshwater & wd40 when i get home.I take them apart yearly to clean & change the blue grease.
One of my favorites I bought in the 80's. only parts that I replaced was the springs, upgrade drags & bearing
thanks to you guys I learned how to open bearings up & clean regrease there too.[no more need to replace them ]I use 3 113 ht-100 instead of the 60s drag washers gave it a little more pressure.
Looks like Penn are bringing this reel back, http://www.stripersonline.com/t/887553/return-of-the/90
Old shool reliable reels!
These reels are twin-similar and probably based on old DAM Quick 550 reels - both were constructed in pre-disposable reels era.
Too bad Penn didn't try to modify some parts to make them even more efficient, at least line roller imo.
Great tutorial John.
did penn ever come out with the new versions of the 704 and 706 reels
Quote from: txangler81 on August 08, 2014, 04:38:47 AM
did penn ever come out with the new versions of the 704 and 706 reels
Well, they brought back the 704 and 706 as advertized. Terrific reliable reels.
Thanks John! I have a 710 and 710z and am thrilled with them. I think the Greenie will become a project reel, found a gentleman online who will drill/slot the rotor and do custom paint. I know they are not 704's, but extremely similar. Thanks again!
Thanks John, that was very thorough and informative. Great job.
I would like to hear more about using 3 113 drag washers instead of the 60's. Has anyone found a fix for the sloppy back play in the handle?
Quote from: Fishit 2 on May 28, 2015, 01:14:16 AM
I would like to hear more about using 3 113 drag washers instead of the 60's. Has anyone found a fix for the sloppy back play in the handle?
So, there is the Marcq post that you have seen that when the extra dog is placed can reduce the back play when they are "synced" to be alternating...then if you search for threads on stripersonine.com there is a variety of ways to install instant AR bearings. One guy did it on the handle side (removed bushing and drilled out receptacle. Another guy did it on the base of the pinion. Again, needed to pull that bushing and enlarge the frame for it.
best
I remember that thread on SOL but unfortunately I can't search that forum - I was asked to leave and never post there again(banned for life) so I can't even use their search feature.
Quote from: Fishit 2 on May 29, 2015, 02:26:38 PM
I remember that thread on SOL but unfortunately I can't search that forum - I was asked to leave and never post there again(banned for life) so I can't even use their search feature.
You probably saw this
https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrTcX8QpWhVVCcA1UKJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIyOHNmNnJqBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM0MjdiNDNjMGMwYTQxODA4ODBiN2FjNzc4NDA0M2Q0MwRncG9zAzUEaXQDYmluZw--?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3DPenn%2B704%2BAr%2BBearing%26fr%3Dmcafee%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D5&w=518&h=389&imgurl=i809.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz16%2Fj3plugs%2FPenn%2520704%2FDSC02685.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stripersonline.com%2Ft%2F761649%2Fheavily-modded-penn-704&size=42.8KB&name=Heavily+Modded+%3Cb%3EPenn%3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb%3E704%3C%2Fb%3E&p=Penn+704+Ar+Bearing&oid=427b43c0c0a4180880b7ac7784043d43&fr2=&fr=mcafee&tt=Heavily+Modded+%3Cb%3EPenn%3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb%3E704%3C%2Fb%3E&b=0&ni=480&no=5&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11uj04rrs&sigb=12uk6rfes&sigi=1209sbpmi&sigt=115jlkemp&sign=115jlkemp&.crumb=EAJMC578wq9&fr=mcafee
Marc..
Guys,
Here is this EXCELLENT Tutorial in PDF format for EASY DOWNLOAD . . . ENJOY ! ! !
There was also on SOL (stripersonline.com) soem discussions of making an 'S' crosswind - giving one a better line lay and stroke.
Is anyone producing these for the 704s ???
And thanks Alan for another great real look at reels ...
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 12, 2013, 05:19:07 AMThe 704Z probably makes ~12lbs of drag hammered down (tests tomorrow) just like an un-modded Senator does. Go much higher than that and you probably run into trouble with the Housing plate (plastic) flexing when you try and crank against too much load just like a Senator frame flexes under higher drag causing binding and wear.
So this will never be the reel for duking it out with real big 'uns offshore or in the tropics.
Yes, and pushing it beyond can strip the gears too since the A/R dog works off of the main gear.
Quote from: nelz on August 10, 2015, 04:02:42 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 12, 2013, 05:19:07 AMThe 704Z probably makes ~12lbs of drag hammered down (tests tomorrow) just like an un-modded Senator does. Go much higher than that and you probably run into trouble with the Housing plate (plastic) flexing when you try and crank against too much load just like a Senator frame flexes under higher drag causing binding and wear.
So this will never be the reel for duking it out with real big 'uns offshore or in the tropics.
Yes, and pushing it beyond can strip the gears too since the A/R dog works off of the main gear.
Absolutely correct.
The incredible longevity of the 704Z and all of it's siblings in the "Z" lineage is due to a balance of the drag's modest ability with the strength of the gear train and rest of the reel. The drag is relatively weak and should be upgraded with care. The rest of the reel is bombproof for years because the stock drag can't easily hurt it.
Comparatively other modern spinning reels have amazing drags, but real damage to the gear train is definitely possible if the angler is not careful.
The good news is that these modern reels have instant ARB that protect the gear train, unless the unaware try to crank against the load. Then you can rapidly come to grief.
Not disagreeing with anyone this is only my opinion on these reels. I know what they could do, I have many of them. The Z series could easily handle double the numbers that they were meant to. Gear train in those is much stronger than the cast aluminum that you will usually see in newer reels of today.
The latest Spinner,Penn Clash looks very nice though, no cast aluminum gears and its priced right., Penn should do really good with those.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 10, 2015, 09:19:00 PM
Not disagreeing with anyone this is only my opinion on these reels. I know what they could do, I have many of them. The Z series could easily handle double the numbers that they were meant to. Gear train in those is much stronger than the cast aluminum that you will usually see in newer reels of today.
The latest Spinner,Penn Clash looks very nice though, no cast aluminum gears and its priced right., Penn should do really good with those.
Sal
They are Sal and I have one on order at Scott's just to see one. I surely don't need it.
love my 704z Cobia killer. I push way more thane 12#s of drag 8)
HERE is the 704 / 706 Anti-Reverse Modification Thread from SOL . . . PDF Format below - ENJOY ! ! !
Quote from: Fishit 2 on May 29, 2015, 02:26:38 PM
I remember that thread on SOL but unfortunately I can't search that forum - I was asked to leave and never post there again(banned for life) so I can't even use their search feature.
There MAY be a way AROUND that . . .
How To Create a New "DYNAMIC IP ADDRESS" . . .
(1) Unplug your DSL Modem, both from it's Power Supply and the cable to your computer for TWO HOURS.
(2) Turn off your computer and unplug it for a couple of minutes.
(3) AFTER TWO HOURS, re-plug in your DSL Modem and connect it back to your computer.
(4) Turn on your computer and go online.
(5) Create a "Dummy" E-Mail account, just to supply Forum(s) with and receive Activation E-Mails, etc.
(6) Sign on to SOL or any other Forum . . . Create a NEW ACCOUNT . . . Supply them with the "Dummy" E-Mail address, and make up different Personal Info about yourself, including Location, etc.
PRESTO ! ! !
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 10, 2015, 09:19:00 PM
Not disagreeing with anyone this is only my opinion on these reels. I know what they could do, I have many of them. The Z series could easily handle double the numbers that they were meant to. Gear train in those is much stronger than the cast aluminum that you will usually see in newer reels of today.
The latest Spinner,Penn Clash looks very nice though, no cast aluminum gears and its priced right., Penn should do really good with those.
Sal
This thread got me to thinking about the Conflict 8000 that I modified so I took my 706Z and tightened the drag down all the way. I could grab the spool in my palm and turn it. Pulled the spool off and found something similar to the conflict. I could see a big space under the spring retainer. In the Conflict I had plenty of drag but added a delrin on top in that space and go some extra smoothness.
Before adding a delrin in the 706 I turned the spool over and all the drag disc stacked nicely on my bench. What I saw first was and hex or oct (did not count) and then a white (maybe delrin) washer, keyed and CF and keyed and CF and keyed. They were all dry as well.
Got out the Cal's and started reassembly. I checked my longbeach 65 CFs and sure enough they were the exact same size so I put one in the place of the white washer so now I have 3 CFs instead of 2 and I put the white washer on the very top due to the big gap under the retaining spring.
Tightened the drag and WOW what an instant major increase.
Sorry no pics. Kind of late to be tinkering in the shop anyway.
Quote from: Newell Nut on August 12, 2015, 12:56:43 AMWhat I saw first was and hex or oct (did not count) and then a white (maybe delrin) washer, keyed and CF and keyed and CF and keyed.
"Back in the day", Penn used Teflon discs in some of their drags. That's probably what the White washer is.
I wanted to say thank you to John for posting this tutorial. Your pictures were fantastic and really helped when I couldn't visualize how it went back together. ;D
Quote from: Army_of_One on March 24, 2016, 01:26:30 AM
I wanted to say thank you to John for posting this tutorial. Your pictures were fantastic and really helped when I couldn't visualize how it went back together. ;D
Glad to help!
:)
Here's a very cool thread about a mod to convert your 704Z to bail-less and handle braid better. See the linked thread for discussion and source:
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/670063-penn-704z-bailess-problem/
Put my 704z in the ultrasonic cleaner filled with Simple Green and the paint unexpectedly came off. Plan on repainting with either powder or auto paint --- haven't decided yet. I have a few questions about a complete disassembly though.
1) Is the pivot post for the gear dog pressed or screwed into the housing?
2) Does anyone have any tips for pressing out the handle bushings?
3) Tips for pressing out handle grease fitting?
4) Best paint? The powder paint guy says he's not sure how much coverage he can get inside the rotor cup.
Thanks everybody,
Robby in NC
Quote from: robbyr on January 13, 2017, 12:57:03 AM
Put my 704z in the ultrasonic cleaner filled with Simple Green and the paint unexpectedly came off. Plan on repainting with either powder or auto paint --- haven't decided yet. I have a few questions about a complete disassembly though.
1) Is the pivot post for the gear dog pressed or screwed into the housing?
2) Does anyone have any tips for pressing out the handle bushings?
3) Tips for pressing out handle grease fitting?
4) Best paint? The powder paint guy says he's not sure how much coverage he can get inside the rotor cup.
Thanks everybody,
Robby in NC
Hey Robby,
Gotta say I don't know! ???
I have never taken a 704z down to bare bones for a repainting but others have. They probably "masked" over those areas as removing the grease fitting would probably destroy it. The pivot point for the dog is molded in the ones I have seen IIRC, the bushing is pressed and may be able to be removed with the right size sockets, but may be another case of letting sleeping dogs lie as any paint my mess with the tolerance getting it back in.
My best advice is to refer you to Stripers Online where there are countless guys that have repainted their Zs and drilled them out, removed the handle bushing for an AR bearing etc and generally very helpful. Post in the reel maintenance forum there and you'll get all the low-down on repainting your reel.
Sorry to hear about the simple green. However, some guys strip the paint and then polish the aluminum with beautiful results, something to consider.
best
Thanks, John!
Robby the pin for the dog comes right out. It needs to be in if you want the frame to be all black. The pin goes all the way through the body. Just paint is covering the end.
Thanks Handi2!
Screw or press?
The dog pin is just sitting in there but cannot come out once the main gear is in place. I would not take the bushing or grease fittings out unless they are going to be replaced with new ones. The old ones may not be secure when replaced and there's a good chance they will be buggered up in the process. I wouldn't paint it either regardless of how bad the finish is. Ones that are painted always look like an old Spinfisher that someone painted.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on January 18, 2017, 10:05:43 AMI wouldn't paint it either regardless of how bad the finish is. Ones that are painted always look like an old Spinfisher that someone painted.
-steve
Agreed . . . POLISH it !!!
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/581974-penn-spinfisher-greenie-to-shiny-metallic/ (http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/581974-penn-spinfisher-greenie-to-shiny-metallic/)Tight Lines !
An interesting thread on customizing Penn 704's . . .
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/353752-drilled-penn-reels-random-pictures/ (http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/353752-drilled-penn-reels-random-pictures/)
Tight Lines !
Doesn't that shiny finish start to tarnish with the salt water? Is it coated with something?
I read that you keep a coating of wax on it, but I am curious about the cover plate, mine is plastic, were some aluminum? Or did they just paint the cover plate?
Nick
The dog pin/post on mine is firmly attached. It's either pressed in, screwed in, or molded in place --- I'm just trying to figure out which one. I've included a version of one of John's great photos to show the pivot pin I'm talking about, just in case I'm calling it by the wrong name:
That shiny 704z sure is pretty, but I'm afraid my buddies might laugh me off the beach if I showed up with something that fancy.
Quote from: ReelFishingProblems on January 18, 2017, 08:07:28 PM
I read that you keep a coating of wax on it, but I am curious about the cover plate, mine is plastic, were some aluminum? Or did they just paint the cover plate?
Nick
Nick,
I think the early 704's had a metal sideplate, later changed to plastic.
www.ebay.com/itm/PENN-REELS-PENN-704-SPINFISHER-GOOD-SHAPE-/351957226864 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/PENN-REELS-PENN-704-SPINFISHER-GOOD-SHAPE-/351957226864)http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Penn-704-Spinning-Reel-Greenie-USA-/152398209097 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Penn-704-Spinning-Reel-Greenie-USA-/152398209097)http://www.ebay.com/itm/penn-704-/152376099691 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/penn-704-/152376099691)Tight Lines !
Sorry, I messed up and lied. The 704 has a slip-in pin but the schematic on a 704Z does not show a pin.... as though it were a permanent post. The 710Z through 716Z have a screw like what Keith describes.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on January 19, 2017, 06:06:03 AM
Sorry, I messed up and lied. The 704 has a slip-in pin but the schematic on a 704Z does not show a pin.... as though it were a permanent post. The 710Z through 716Z have a screw like what Keith describes.
-steve
I wouldn't go that far :).
But yea, the 704/6z have a molded post on the ones I have seen (but have been wrong before). :)
Thank you for the information!
I've been fiddlin' around with one of these reels all week, and I though I'd share some of my results. Sal mentioned long ago in the comments that he felt the reel was capable of much higher drag numbers than stock...and I must agree after some testing...this reel left me enlightened.
I started with this modest example, she's no plinth princess, but the battle scars are only on the outside. There was no excessive wear on any parts, and this one has obviously been used a lot.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49949075932_949a4ed5df_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6Q55m)
The badge patina was a bit much for me...I couldn't read the darn thing...so I buffed up the high spots.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49948785176_561f46c20c_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6NzDj)
At first I thought this handle's chrome knob shaft had serious corrosion. It turned out to be just surface grit and grime. Hopefully the eBay pic(left) shows the "before" well enough. I though the "after"(right) was a major improvement.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49948283393_1770a78ce6_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6L1tT)(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49948785121_ebdca181f8_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6NzCn)
One of the interesting features on these reels is the rotor brake. No other reel I've opened has had this type brake...and I'm wondering why. Seems like a great brake.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49949075862_b9f081286d_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6Q549)
Want a good giggle? After all the hundreds of reels I've serviced, this is the very first bearing shield I've removed without destroying it. Have I finally graduated to "reel guru" status? :D
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49949075827_80936f3db2_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6Q53x)
There was nothing wrong with the bail...but I've always wanted a 706...and they don't come cheap often. This modified 704 will serve well enough for now.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49949075772_15a61db1da_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6Q52A)
This is one of those little things that bothers me, but most folks would never even notice. The AR ratchet just slips onto the drive gear, so it wiggles around a little. A few punches with a nail and the edge is moved out just enough to make the fitment tight. It takes the slop out of the ratchet.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49949075597_4affa8a60b_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6Q4Yz)
All cleaned up and ready to reassemble. I started with the stock drags. That consists of a white plastic washer under the spool, one white washer inside the spool, and the other two inside are a hard fiber that looks very much like the washers used in early Ambassadeurs and Cardinals. I've heard the white washers referred to as Teflon most of the time...sometimes Delrin...even Acetal. Just for simplicity I'm calling them Teflon from here on. The stock stack was surprisingly smooth...very smooth...no start up or chatter at all. It made 13 pounds fully tight. I've always heard these teflon washers were a poor choice for high power drag systems, and this is the first time I've tested them at a rating over 10-12 pounds. They handled the power very well, so I'm wondering if I've misjudged these all along. ???
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49948784976_44e092cc79_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6NzzS)
Next up was the stock configuration, but all in spool friction washers swapped out to Penn HT-100s in the #6-60 size. That produced the same fluid pull at a max of 15 pounds.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49948784936_a1904409f8_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6Nzzb)
Last but not least, I slapped in the Bryan Young 5-stack. Power jumped to a whopping 21 pounds fully tight. Impressive...and I'm still scratching my head...I've never seen 5 #6-60 size drag washers produce that much power. I've put this type 5-stack into a variety of Penn conventionals and most produce 15-17lbs. max. The best ever conventional was my River King 259 and it made 19lbs. max. Maybe it has something to do with the line being pulled off the spool different on a spinner versus the conventional? I'm not sure, but this 704 is a trooper! :o
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49949075612_d2902a9927_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6Q4YQ)
I guess she don't look so bad after the overhaul. One thing is for sure, this classic will still be haulin' in the feesh when we're all dead and gone. 8)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49948784851_1ab5929c84_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j6NzxH)
MO!!
Why a 706???
Many internal parts are interchangeable with the 704.
Greater line capacity???
Love to know,
Keep fish'n!!!!
Wayne
Quote from: El Pescador on May 29, 2020, 05:36:00 PM
MO!!
Why a 706???
Many internal parts are interchangeable with the 704.
Greater line capacity???
Love to know,
Keep fish'n!!!!
Wayne
Wayno...the answer is very simple grasshopper. ;D The 706 is the bailess version of the 704. As far as I know, the bail, the rotor brake, and the handle are the only differences. I still can't walk across the rice paper without tearing it though...so I could be wrong.
Dang MO!!!
Just learned something new today.
checking the Mystic Spinning reel site, and RIGHT YOU ARE, SIR!!!!
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/ReelSpecs/PennSpinfisher.aspx#specs
the 706 is bail-less. NEVER knew that until today.
Spending time on Alan's website does pay off!!!!
And in the 70's my Brother Ken and I LOVED to watch Kung fu!!!! David Carradine was just so calm & cool as be beat the crap out of those in his way.
Wayne
Those are nice reels Mo, still used by many surf fishermen here in the NE.
Love that quote about the rice paper...got to use it!🙂
Sal
Nice job on the 704, Mo! I particularly like the added touch with the nail on the ratchet. I always enjoy taking apart the 1st gens.
Quote from: El Pescador on May 29, 2020, 05:56:25 PM
The 706 is bail-less. NEVER knew that until today.
It's kinda funny Wayne, back in the day Penn offered this bailless kit to swap out a 704 for just a few bucks. It gave the fisherman a chance to try the bailless option without having to buy a whole new reel. Now...with today's bailless popularity these kits are bringing $20 or more...and it's getting to the point where just springing for a 706 is about the same price. I bought my kit a while back when they were still only $10-$12. 8)
Not only have you graduated to "reel guru", Mike, you've also morphed into an innovative design flaw technician! I like the way you tightened up that AR ratchet gear. Very creative!
Oh, BTW, nice walk through!
Wow, those are MINT Fred! :o
What a neat find!
Mo, great info and details again!
Good Day, just got one penn Black 704 Z from flee market. Penn side logo/decall and knob decals is missing.
Please let me know if anyone has extra willing to sell? Thank you
Not sure what you are describing as the knob decal —-
Is this what you need for the logo sideplate badge?
Best, Fred
Quote from: foakes on August 29, 2022, 01:18:29 AMNot sure what you are describing as the knob decal —-
Is this what you need for the logo sideplate badge?
Best, Fred
Good Day, Yes. this one is missing. how much is this decal?
Also I cant find out why some 704z have black and some have yellow sppol?
If you are in he US, figure $5 & free shipping in an envelope.
Do you mean the gold anodized spools vs, the black spools?
If that is the case, just different trim over the years.
Maybe a photo or two?
Best, Fred
Quote from: foakes on August 31, 2022, 12:09:46 AMIf you are in he US, figure $5 & free shipping in an envelope.
Do you mean the gold anodized spools vs, the black spools?
If that is the case, just different trim over the years.
Maybe a photo or two?
Best, Fred
please see photos. looklike working reel, too much grease inside
I acquired two PENN 705s (left-handed, handle on right side of reel). They were restored very nicely, but the line rollers did not spin freely, if at all, due to pitting of the bail arm beneath the roller. I thought of trying to grind or sand the surface smooth but thought that would damage the plating. So, I ordered two roller washers (part 132-750, I believe) from Mystic Reel Parts. After this installation, the rollers spin perfectly! The threaded shaft that holds the roller is now a little short, so I applied blue thread lock on the threads to prevent the nut falling off. This disadvantage could possibly be corrected by grinding the surface of the bail arm down a bit. I imagine others have dealt with the roller spinning issue with these reels already, but I thought I'd share the info in case it is of use. DSCN1110 (2).JPG
Thanks for this TW —-
Did you also replace the roller sleeve under the line roller?
Part # 35A.
Or did your reels not have this part?
Really tough and capable reels.
Best, Fred
Reels arrived with roller sleeves in very good condition. The handles showed some wear, and the new metallic paint seemed to lack primer and scratches off too easily. The line rollers just didn't roll. Thanks for your reply.
Cool!
Twagon, nice work indeed. I wish all the bail parts(except the sleeves) were made of stainless steel on these great old Spinfishers.
Thanks!
Quote from: Twagon on December 28, 2022, 01:37:30 PMReels arrived with roller sleeves in very good condition. The handles showed some wear, and the new metallic paint seemed to lack primer and scratches off too easily. The line rollers just didn't roll. Thanks for your reply.
You can't beat those line rollers. The carbon line roller liner has been made