OK, I'm aware it's not the best idea to cast any knotted connection for braid to mono through your guides. All knots I've tried that Ive used for repeated casting need to be checked frequently.
Does any one know of a knot that passes through guides smoothly with out causing the spool to blow up ?
I'm really needing this for my short leaders because of frequent snags along with the ability to use less weight with more braid in the current than mono....Jeff
A uni to uni has always seemed the smoothest for me on the cast. Depending on the size of the mono it can get a little bumpy on the retrieve.
Dave
I like the albright knot best.
Collins or albright for me, but checking them often is important.
I, a long with quite a few others fishing salt water, have started using the FG to connect mono top shots to braid line. It looks difficult at first but once you learn it, it is about the slimmest knot you can tie. Do a search on line. There are videos on youtube showing different methods of tying it.
Loup to loup.
As Swami805 said, John Collins/RP knot. I cast it on 15lb braid to 12lb mono top shot to a 1/2 oz - 1 oz Kastmaster or Kroc during every session at San Diego Bay, and I average a session every other two to three weekends annually. Have use it for spinner casting up to 100lb braid to 100lb top shot with poppers though with increasing line weight, the knot smacking on the tip as it exits also grows more profound.
A hollow core serve is a better connection for the heavier lines but it is also a jump in complexity.
FG
For solid core braids PE2 and up to PE8 (ie 20-80lb) its FG or PR knot for me. Plenty of options to tie either knot, and plenty of how-to's on youtube.
FG. Hate to tie them but love to cast them.
-steve
For tying a mono leader to braided dacron backing on casting reels I use a uni to uni with no problems.
For the newer generation braids to mono leader on a spinning reel I tie a triple surgeons knot on a doubled braided line and tie the doubled braid to the mono leader with a uni to uni. The triple surgeons knot on a doubled braid line is a quick, easy tie and works well on light & med-light lines.
Quote from: oc1 on May 25, 2017, 12:07:44 PM
FG. Hate to tie them but love to cast them.
-steve
hey steve, is the fg knot that much better than the slim beauty knot?
It might help to smooth out the knot passin(bumpin) through the guides if ya doubled up the braid to get it closer in thickness to the mono. I's thinkin to try somethin like contact cement(kinda rubbery after it dries) to smooth the knot "ridges" out a-little.
Gfish
It depends how thick your mono leader is. If it is very thick e.g. close to 1mm or even more then you can look at making a Wind - on with a bimini in the braid, otherwise it is hard to beat the FG. Are you using a multiplier? Sounds like it? You can then use th Bob Sands as well, very good knot and nice and small. If it is a spinning reel and you want to wind the leader onto the pool, FG again works very well. Look on youtube, there are numerous tying tricks for the FG.
PR Knot for sure
I've seen the FG and intend to try it but never tied it. It seems pretty similar to the Alberto knot which I like for surfcasting on a conventional setup, for attaching shock leader to main line (mono or braid) or main line to leader. The thinner line gets wrapped around the thicker one. It goes through guides just fine, and I have yet to break one.
The advantage of the FG knot is that there is only one thickness of the leader material so it is the slimmest knot possible. Anytime the mono doubles back on itself or crosses itself you double the thickness. The trouble with the FG is that tying to a piece of mono that does not cross or double back on itself to the connection is sort of precarious. I've had them start to unravel.
-steve
A drop of superglue stops a knot from starting to unravel.
The best knot for casting is one that never goes through your guides. I only use a few feet of mono or fluoro and use spectra for the rest.
If you're using anything thats doubles the mono/fluoro then you're losing out compared to the FG or PR.
They do take some getting used to and learning to tie but considering their strength and smoothness exceed that of all the traditional knots they are well worth learning.
EDIT: IMO the FG is the better casting knot; the PR can be a little bit rigid although I do give it the edge in terms of robustness and strength.
Quote from: MarkT on May 25, 2017, 09:39:38 PM
A drop of superglue stops a knot from starting to unravel.
The best knot for casting is one that never goes through your guides.
Mark that is in fact the ultimate truth of this. Also some type of glue gives a huge benefit when doing it....Jeff
Guys I did forget to mention that I'm using 80 hollow & 60 copolymer lines.
The issue is frequent snags. With this level of line it's not the best idea to attempt breaking off when snagged from a canoe or small boat.
A 2 - 8 oz sinker propelled by the energy of stretched line from shallow water could be lethal. So I am frequently cutting my line when snagged.
The FG along with the use of glue does seem at this point to be the best option.
With loop to loop being the best by running the mono leader into a length of hollow & splicing the loop.
However this can be time consuming & not as easy as tying a knot in the canoe or small boat....Jeff
If you're getting snagged and cutting off a fair bit I wouldn't even bother with the glue. Just keep an eye on your knot, tie your FG with a few extra half-hitches down the mono and the braid and make sure you pull the knot HARD before clipping the mono, should stop the coils coming off the mono... at which point the knot is toast and needs cutting off and re-tieing.
Slim beauty works great and is slim
Quote from: Rivverrat on May 25, 2017, 10:29:52 PM
Guys I did forget to mention that I'm using 80 hollow & 60 copolymer lines.
Hollow makes this easy. Stick the mono/fluro/copolemer 3'-4' into the hollow and serve the conection, you will barely feel the splice going through you guides.
For L2L I pre rig several topshots and put them on spools. Tie your favorit loop knot, I use a surgon loop with 3 tucks, then attach your spooled topshot. It does not take much time on the water.
One thought, can you loose the "mono" and tie directly to your Spectra?
Quote from: Rivverrat on May 25, 2017, 10:29:52 PM
...A 2 - 8 oz sinker propelled by the energy of stretched line from shallow water could be lethal...
X2 ...no, wait X1000!!!
did exactly that w/ 20#braid/10#fluoro & got popped right between the eyes w/ 1/2 oz. egg sinker
:o :'( :'( :'(
I can only imagine what an 8 oz. pyramid could do after an 80/60# release
vehemently NOT RECOMMENDED!!!Quote from: Rivverrat on May 25, 2017, 10:29:52 PM...So I am frequently cutting my line when snagged...
needless to say, I am now also much less reluctant to loose a few dozen yards to a shallow snag
[
where's the lightbulb-over-head emogi ??? methinks that's a must for a tinkerers' Forum]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjzUb5QRKuk
Thats how I tie mine. Not a bad knot to tie. Actually easier tyen a Bimini twist, whi h I have been tying for years.
Thanks for sharing Sid!
John
Whats the heaviest line & drag some of you are using with the FG Knot ?
I am fishing 100lb solid core to 100lb mono with 22lbs drag at strike.
Alot of the Ulua shorefishermen here are using thus knot to fish heavy mono leaders and higher drags. The used to use uni to uni knots, now many are prefering the chain.
John
Thanks for that answer John....Jeff
Quote from: Keta on May 26, 2017, 03:43:05 PM
Quote from: Rivverrat on May 25, 2017, 10:29:52 PM
Guys I did forget to mention that I'm using 80 hollow & 60 copolymer lines.
One thought, can you loose the "mono" and tie directly to your Spectra?
Lee, with the amount of rocks, logs & assorted other hard abrasive stuff in the river, that would be a hard thingto do. What I've found is some braid is very resistant to cuts & abrasion. Maybe more than mono or polymer lines when its going straight across. Its when braid goes across sideways on a rock, log or what ever is when it comes undone pretty quick.
Most of the time I'm fishing reels loaded with a topshot a little longer than my best cast with bait. The type of set up that I'm talking about here would be for throwing across the current. It's really suprising how much less weight it takes with braid to park a bait in the current. I want to have have one reel set up for fishing crossways in the current.
Longer rods are also a big benefit. They keep a lot of line up out of the current. However the longest rods I use most of the time are 8'. Any thing longer is to big a hemerrhoid to pack aroud as much as I fish...Jeff
Quote from: Dave Bentley on May 25, 2017, 03:10:52 PM
PR Knot for sure
RP knot is the same as the Tom Collins knot.
Hollow to mono/fluoro go knotless like Keta said with a L2L or a in line connection.
This is why I like longer toppers, longer than my casts or short toppers where the mono/fluoro to braid connection is outside of the rods guides before I cast. Short are like 6-7 foot, and long can be anywhere of about 50 to 100 yards depending on how I use the reel and rod.
Quote from: Rivverrat on May 27, 2017, 03:50:05 AM
It's really surprising how much less weight it takes with braid to park a bait in the current.
That's a fact Jeff...since the braid sinks it sure does anchor easier. My brother has been experimenting with braid for catfishing...and he's been using the good ol' uni to uni knot. We've used it for years in bass fishing without any trouble and it seems to be working fine for catfishing too. One thing I've noticed...is with time super glue always works off the knot leaving the end exposed to unravel. I've found a much more reliable way to keep the braid end sealed...burn it. Berkley makes a braid burner, but most times I just use a cigarette, just be careful not to hit the knot. 8)
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Berkley-Hot-Line-Cutter/33607316?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227022628751&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=40971756752&wl4=pla-78914848712&wl5=9015859&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=33607316&wl13=&veh=sem
Quote from: Keta on May 26, 2017, 03:43:05 PM
One thought, can you loose the "mono" and tie directly to your Spectra?
As Jeff said the abrasion of rocks is a problem...but also...that mono has enough stretch to cushion a big cat's head shakes. I've noticed braid's lack of stretch helps them throw the hook. ;)
SoCal, all my river irgs are set up the way you describe. However this is a bit different than how I fish most times. As I'm sure you know a short mono/coploymer leader has for less resistance to current than the two prior mentioned lines. Ive decided on 2 options.
Mo, I really like the uni knot. It's a very versatile knot that every fisherman should know. I dont really like it so much for short leaders with the uni passing through the guides. Though many people do. That line burner is new one for me. Never seen it before....Jeff
100% of my reels are filled with Spectra, including my kokanee reels. I feel it is a good choice for all of my uses, includind steelhead around rock and large woody debris. For steelhead I use a 3'-4' topshot. I also sell JB Spectra but at a price that is only a few $ above my cost so there is no financial gain for me in pimping it. Let me clear up a few misconceptions in this thread. Spectra is not cheep but it lasts for years.
Spectra floats.
Uncoated spectra is best for some applications, coated for some. Coated tends to resist abrasion far better than uncoated.
The low stretch can cause problems but if you drop down in rod power and let the rod work for you pull outs are drasticly reduced. Low stretch and senitivty the reason I use Spectra.
The thin diameter of Sectra has less resistance to current so you can keep on the bottom with less weight, fishing with 64oz sinkers sucks, 48oz does too. We fish 600' and deeper and if we used mono feeling a bite is tough, hook set is not good either.
Quote from: mo65 on May 27, 2017, 11:49:58 AM
Quote from: Rivverrat on May 27, 2017, 03:50:05 AM
It's really surprising how much less weight it takes with braid to park a bait in the current.
That's a fact Jeff...since the braid sinks it sure does anchor easier. My brother has been experimenting with braid for catfishing...and he's been using the good ol' uni to uni knot. We've used it for years in bass fishing without any trouble and it seems to be working fine for catfishing too. One thing I've noticed...is with time super glue always works off the knot leaving the end exposed to unravel. I've found a much more reliable way to keep the braid end sealed...burn it. Berkley makes a braid burner, but most times I just use a cigarette, just be careful not to hit the knot. 8)
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Berkley-Hot-Line-Cutter/33607316?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227022628751&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=40971756752&wl4=pla-78914848712&wl5=9015859&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=33607316&wl13=&veh=sem
Quote from: Keta on May 26, 2017, 03:43:05 PM
One thought, can you loose the "mono" and tie directly to your Spectra?
As Jeff said the abrasion of rocks is a problem...but also...that mono has enough stretch to cushion a big cat's head shakes. I've noticed braid's lack of stretch helps them throw the hook. ;)
Hey Mo,
You hit the nail on the head in regards to using superglue (CA cement) on spectra/gel spun knots. The actual material that the line is made from is polyethylene. There are only a few two-part high tech adhesives that will stick to polyethylene, and probably nothing if the line has a coating. On top of that, the standard hardware store superglue is pretty stiff, and not super water resistant. My theory is that the glue helps by clogging up the gaps between the fibers and the wraps. There are probably better glues out there. Something that penetrates well, is very elastic , waterproof. I use Pliobond for serving fly lines to braided mono, but it is nasty stuff, and dark brown in color. Loon makes a UV cure (sunlight works) urethane for sealing and smoothing knots. Product name is Knot Sense. I have meant to try it but haven't yet.
-J
actually, I may be the guy that gave Loon the idea for Knot Sense: many, many years ago, I exchanged e-mails w/ one of their Reps about using their UV wader repair to reinforce Spectra knots (whether it was thin/penetrating enough). Loon (or, at least, that particular Rep.) knew nothing about such a possible application; really liked the idea; said he'd pass it on to R&D; and sent me head cement (polyurethane?) & UV wader repair, as freebies to play with
Quote from: Rivverrat on May 26, 2017, 10:09:11 PM
Whats the heaviest line & drag some of you are using with the FG Knot ?
105lb braid to 150lb leader, 45lb of drag.
When on land I tie a PR knot, if I break off on the boat and have to re-tie at sea it gets an FG.
Quote from: Keta on May 28, 2017, 04:10:49 PM
We fish 600' and deeper and if we used mono feeling a bite is tough, hook set is not good either.
Wow...600 feet of water! Yes, mono must be virtually worthless in that application. It would be like trying to set the hook using a slinky for your line! :D ;D 8)
Quote from: mo65 on May 29, 2017, 10:34:06 AM
Quote from: Keta on May 28, 2017, 04:10:49 PM
We fish 600' and deeper and if we used mono feeling a bite is tough, hook set is not good either.
Wow...600 feet of water! Yes, mono must be virtually worthless in that application. It would be like trying to set the hook using a slinky for your line! :D ;D 8)
You get the odd person that still tries to fish mono at these and greater depths... with over 100ft of stretch in their line and the heavy lead required to get down there it's not uncommon for them to not even know if they've got a fish on until they decide to wind up and check their bait.
Even with braid I don't bother setting the hook in depths like that; just use big circle hooks and a big sinker, let the fish set the hook itself pulling on the sinker when it swims off with the bait.
Heck I use circle hooks in 60ft of water let alone 600 :D
I to prefer circles over j hooks.
I love circle hooks. I release all of my big catfish. Circles can I think be an issue at times with large flathead. I think if this is so it may have something to do with the shape of a flatheads mouth....Jeff
Yep...we're big on circles here too. And again Jeff is right, for some reason or another, circle hooks seem to miss a lot of Flathead catfish. Flats are the only fish I don't prefer circles on, but we're working on it, looking for a way to make it work. 8)
Quote from: mo65 on June 01, 2017, 01:39:37 PM
Yep...we're big on circles here too. And again Jeff is right, for some reason or another, circle hooks seem to miss a lot of Flathead catfish. Flats are the only fish I don't prefer circles on, but we're working on it, looking for a way to make it work. 8)
Have you tried larger hooks?
Quote from: Keta on June 01, 2017, 02:18:34 PM
Have you tried larger hooks?
I think the largest we've used is 8/0. Good idea Lee...maybe next time out we'll go larger. 8)
P.S. Jeff...sorry bro...didn't mean to turn your knot discussion into a hook discussion...it just sorta blossomed. :-[
Quote from: mo65 on June 01, 2017, 02:30:49 PM
Quote from: Keta on June 01, 2017, 02:18:34 PM
Have you tried larger hooks?
I think the largest we've used is 8/0. Good idea Lee...maybe next time out we'll go larger. 8)
P.S. Jeff...sorry bro...didn't mean to turn your knot discussion into a hook discussion...it just sorta blossomed. :-[
This is page 3, I think we can stray.
I used 8/0 EC circles fishing for YT at Cedros with Mackeral for bait. You can cast them just fine even with a knot going through the guides!
Quote from: Keta on June 01, 2017, 02:18:34 PM
Quote from: mo65 on June 01, 2017, 01:39:37 PM
Yep...we're big on circles here too. And again Jeff is right, for some reason or another, circle hooks seem to miss a lot of Flathead catfish. Flats are the only fish I don't prefer circles on, but we're working on it, looking for a way to make it work. 8)
Have you tried larger hooks?
This is a Triple Threat Hook next to a Gamakatsu 8/0. They were sent to me to try out. Haven't tried them yet. I've forgot them 3 times but tomorrow or Wensday I'll be using them.
They are strong. Hooked one into a tree & pulled, jerked with over 30 lbs. of drag with 5 different ones. None broke & only one was a bit misshapen.
Same treatment & I believe at least one Gamakatsu would have snapped....No worries Mo...Jeff
This Gamakatsu Big River Bait hook along with King Kahles is my favorite big Flatty hook.
Here in Kansas you can only fish 3 rods with a special permit. When using this hook I dont use it on all 3 rods. I use on the rod thats in my hands or lap. Had a few gut hooked fish with them.
A nice thing about these hooks is they don't seem to get fouled by the bait as much as circles do.
Quote from: MarkT on June 01, 2017, 02:48:00 PM
I used 8/0 EC circles fishing for YT at Cedros with Mackeral for bait. You can cast them just fine even with a knot going through the guides!
;D Mark, That made me laugh.
The Bristol knot, AKA the RP knot, AKA the No Name knot named by Mark Sosin.
what about this "blob knot" I've heard about?
Quote from: fishhead69 on June 04, 2017, 03:47:20 PM
The Bristol knot, AKA the RP knot, AKA the No Name knot named by Mark Sosin.
Though there are some similarities the Bristol & RP are 2 different knots. While they both are good knots they dont cast well, smoothly through most guides...Jeff
Blob knot is very thin. It's quick too if you carry a lighter with you. The blob clicks a bit going through the guides but I haven't used it enough pass judgment.
-steve
Quote from: fishhead69 on June 04, 2017, 03:47:20 PM
The Bristol knot, AKA the RP knot, AKA the No Name knot named by Mark Sosin.
The huge advantage of the non-doubled knots (PR, FG) is that there's no double so the end of the mono faces towards the reel, thus the line flows very easily when casting. Any knot with a double will have the tag facing the tip (or out the side) and will catch going through them.
Quote from: boon on June 06, 2017, 03:11:30 AM
Quote from: fishhead69 on June 04, 2017, 03:47:20 PM
The Bristol knot, AKA the RP knot, AKA the No Name knot named by Mark Sosin.
The huge advantage of the non-doubled knots (PR, FG) is that there's no double so the end of the mono faces towards the reel, thus the line flows very easily when casting. Any knot with a double will have the tag facing the tip (or out the side) and will catch going through them.
This is true of Albright and similar knots, and is the reason I gave them up. It is not true of the Bristol (no-name) knot. The tag, such as it is, stands out at a right angle. I say such as it is because the knot allows the tag to be trimmed really close, like a mm. For a few years I've been using a Bimini loop/Bristol knot combination to join leaders to braid, and have never had a failure.