I'm doing one of my favorite charter captains reels again this month. This one must have had a screaming run of a fish.
The under gear Delrin got very hot and distorted. It's a first on any Penn reel I've done.
Wow! it looks like a delrin blob. Dominick
Still doesn't look that bad to me.
That reel must have been screaming for a while.
Thanks for sharing Keith, I call one out of thousands within the past 5+ years of usage a good thing!
Sal
I actually don't think it looks that bad either!
That thing took a LOT of heat, and still did it's job ;D
Hang that one on the wall!
Thanks for the pic Keith, what was the original thickness of it any idea, keep well cheers Don.
I posted A picture a while back after a Bahia de los Angeles Yellowtail trip.
Pro Gear CS 501 under gear washer. I posted it under smooth drag Delrin washer. I can't move the picture to this thread but if anyone wants to see a bad one there you go.
Tight lines, Brendan.
Melt Quality
Delrin® is stable in well maintained and properly set injection units and hot runner systems. If a small amount of melt degradation does occur, it will not lower molecular weight or cause brittleness (which is the case with almost all other polymers).
[/i]
https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-and-resins/thermoplastics/documents/Delrin/Delrin%C2%AE%20%20Acetal%20Homopolymer%20Resin%20%E2%80%93%20Molding%20Tips.pdf (https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-and-resins/thermoplastics/documents/Delrin/Delrin%C2%AE%20%20Acetal%20Homopolymer%20Resin%20%E2%80%93%20Molding%20Tips.pdf)
I don't know what that means, but it sounds awesome.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on January 14, 2020, 05:49:14 AM
Melt Quality
Delrin® is stable in well maintained and properly set injection units and hot runner systems. If a small amount of melt degradation does occur, it will not lower molecular weight or cause brittleness (which is the case with almost all other polymers).
[/i]
https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-and-resins/thermoplastics/documents/Delrin/Delrin%C2%AE%20%20Acetal%20Homopolymer%20Resin%20%E2%80%93%20Molding%20Tips.pdf (https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-and-resins/thermoplastics/documents/Delrin/Delrin%C2%AE%20%20Acetal%20Homopolymer%20Resin%20%E2%80%93%20Molding%20Tips.pdf)
I don't know what that means, but it sounds awesome.
-steve
I think you know exactly what that means🙂.
Sal
Quote from: Brendan on January 14, 2020, 05:10:30 AM
I posted A picture a while back after a Bahia de los Angeles Yellowtail trip.
Pro Gear CS 501 under gear washer. I posted it under smooth drag Delrin washer. I can't move the picture to this thread but if anyone wants to see a bad one there you go.
Tight lines, Brendan.
I think this is kind of normal, it is a fishing reel after all.
I have seen some pretty bag carbon fiber washers, used under the gear as well.
It might also be related to your fishing style at times.
Sal
It was a great trip, and we had no failures as a group equipment wise. SAL I am still a believer and replaced it with another Delrin.
Tight lines, Brendan.
Quote from: Brendan on January 14, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
It was a great trip, and we had no failures as a group equipment wise. SAL I am still a believer and replaced it with another Delrin.
Tight lines, Brendan.
I'm glad you had a great trip Brendan!
I'm also glad you are still using the Delrin for under the gear, it is doing very good on my personal gear.
I wasn't arguing with anyone, your input and everyone else is always very much appreciated.
Sal
Quote from: Brendan on January 14, 2020, 05:10:30 AM
I posted A picture a while back after a Bahia de los Angeles Yellowtail trip.
Pro Gear CS 501 under gear washer. I posted it under smooth drag Delrin washer. I can't move the picture to this thread but if anyone wants to see a bad one there you go.
Tight lines, Brendan.
This one?
https://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13421.0;attach=72224;image (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13421.0;attach=72224;image)
(https://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13421.0;attach=72224;image)
As stated in several other posts, Delrin will be within it's operating specs up to 180F or so. It gets pretty squishy around 250F. Although the washer may get reshaped, the mechanical properties after cooling will not change. This would require temps past the point where Delrin becomes a liquid.
My guess is that the top of the drag stack will get hot faster than the undergear washer, so a Delrin top washer might be at a greater risk.
The next step up for folks that feel the need, is fiber filled PTFE (trade name Rulon), which has a lower coefficient of friction than Delrin, good resistance to compression/creep, and max operating temps approaching 500F. It is more expensive than Delrin, and I don't know how easy it would be to cut down washers to size, or to punch out of a sheet. For use as an undergear washer, I would not expect that the specific flavor of Rulon would be very important.
Finding a Rulon washer of the correct thickness and diameter may be difficult and/or expensive, unless there is an off the shelf washer available somewhere. Delrin might still be a reasonable compromise.
-J
I had one melt on me. I noticed it when performing my end of season service. Pretty sure it was the top washer on a 14/0 with Adam's drag insert and the reel had caught multiple 100lb+ Yelliwfin Tuna that year. I think I posted the photo when I discovered it. I am still using the inserts and delron washers on my 12/0 and 14/0 reels.
John
Thanks for all your input.
I want to mention that I've punched a few resulting with splits, there is always a chance that one or two might get away from inspection,
Also, if the hole is not cut perfectly, by using a sharp cutter or punch and having some ridges, this could happen.
Not saying it didn't happen during a fishing trip, just mentioning my findings.
Sal
Quote from: oc1 on January 14, 2020, 05:49:14 AM
Melt Quality
Delrin® is stable in well maintained and properly set injection units and hot runner systems. If a small amount of melt degradation does occur, it will not lower molecular weight or cause brittleness (which is the case with almost all other polymers).
[/i]
https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-and-resins/thermoplastics/documents/Delrin/Delrin%C2%AE%20%20Acetal%20Homopolymer%20Resin%20%E2%80%93%20Molding%20Tips.pdf (https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-and-resins/thermoplastics/documents/Delrin/Delrin%C2%AE%20%20Acetal%20Homopolymer%20Resin%20%E2%80%93%20Molding%20Tips.pdf)
I don't know what that means, but it sounds awesome.
-steve
So, based on that information, it appears white would always be the best option?
Quote from: Midway Tommy on January 15, 2020, 04:27:00 AM
Quote from: oc1 on January 14, 2020, 05:49:14 AM
Melt Quality
Delrin® is stable in well maintained and properly set injection units and hot runner systems. If a small amount of melt degradation does occur, it will not lower molecular weight or cause brittleness (which is the case with almost all other polymers).
[/i]
https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-and-resins/thermoplastics/documents/Delrin/Delrin%C2%AE%20%20Acetal%20Homopolymer%20Resin%20%E2%80%93%20Molding%20Tips.pdf (https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-and-resins/thermoplastics/documents/Delrin/Delrin%C2%AE%20%20Acetal%20Homopolymer%20Resin%20%E2%80%93%20Molding%20Tips.pdf)
I don't know what that means, but it sounds awesome.
-steve
So, based on that information, it appears white would always be the best option?
That document is discussing injection molding of Delrin. That means the material has been heated to the point of liquification before these changes occur.
Delrin liquifies at around 350F, but needs to get up closer to 400 for ideal temp for injection molding. You can only keep it at 400 for a limited amount of time before it starts degrading.
If a Delrin undergear washer reached a temp where degradation is a problem, then it has melted into a little pool on the bottom of your reel and the crystalline structure upon cooling will not be the issue. White blob, red blob, black blob. Doesn't really matter.
-J
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 13, 2020, 11:36:26 PM
Still doesn't look that bad to me.
That reel must have been screaming for a while.
Thanks for sharing Keith, I call one out of thousands within the past 5+ years of usage a good thing!
Sal
Your right on Sal on the Delrin washers. The Carbontex washers have 4 years on them. Out of 25 reels only 2 needed new ones. He has the handles in the speed position so the reels don't get the torque of being in the power position.
For me it was 1 out of ~20 reels (1of~40 total washers) needed replacing.
John