Hi every one, the boat motor cut out out at sea, yesterday, I have a water separating unit, between the fuel tank & the motor, the unit had a bit of sludge in it but nothing major, then there is another filter just before the electric pump, that filter looked a bit black, so I change both of the filters, we turnt the motor over for some time, with know luck of starting.
So we took the electric pump apart, there was a fair bit of water in it, & the filter between the two pistons had a heap of crap around it, we removed that, but we did not have any fuel to test the pump with, so we used water, & it was pushing the water very quick, so after getting all the water out, we place ed the pump together, & tried to start the motor again, with know luck, could it be possible that the, water cooling unit around the pump has rusted through, & the sea water is entering the pump throu there, its a 305, 5 ltr motor, with fuel injection, we had to get sea rescue to take us about 30 Kms back to port, doe anyone have any experience, with these pumps, cheers Don.
ouch, not nice to get towed back over that distance.
Beyond sympathising with what happened I can't help on the motor, sorry mate.
Good luck with locating the problem, may take till next year! ;D
Good thanks Cor, I will be right onto it as soon as I can clear jobs of the work bench, I don`t like the thought of water siting in the injecters any longer than possible, happy new year every one, cheers Don.
I understand the Water seperator concept however your water cooled Fuel pump throws me .Never seen a rig like that ?
Send me some pics if you can of the hook up .
IF you have a fuel pump with water hooked to it for cooling then depending on the internals it could conceivably corrode through similarly like a transmission cooler in a automobiles radiator .
First and Foremost is to purge the injectors somehow and there are different types of those as in opening pressures ,fuel distribution manifolds etc. Water in any amount will damage the entire fuel distribution system and ENGINE more especially SALT WATER
What I do on injection systems is to either remove them and clean them with my pressure tester and then remove the spark plugs and spin the engine over to get any water out of the cylinders then before hooking the fuel line back up ensure only good clean fuel is coming to it
I can not CAUTION you enough on the mishaps of doing this in a scenario you most likely have with a boat engine in an enclosure such as you probably have to deal with .
......BAD BAD Bad.....
I also highly recommend to clean the supply source you are pumping the Fuel From . Which would be another s.tory
Yer I don`t recall a water cool fuel pump . Maybe this will help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-wSaeLUOcE
Thanks for all the warnings billy, I watched a u tube on the fuel injection set up, the carbie had a lot of water in it, with a bloked jet in it, the bloke painstakingly stripped the carbie, blue all the jets out before it would start, they did not mention about taking the spark plugs out, but would be a good idea, I will do that, thanks Billy. check the u tube that Joe posted, looks the same set up as ours,
Thank you joe, we did not know there was a filter below the filter in that area, it looks to be the same sett up that is in my motor,or should I say Pats motor concidering, its not starting, ha haa, I collected up a big heep of gerry cans, to drain the fuel tank early this morning, thankfully, they are forcasting a cool day, for working in the boat, cheers all, thanks Don.
Yepper that u-tube is REELY GOOD thanks to Joe for a good idea of your system .
How is 2022 Down there .
We got JUST under 11 more hours before we can join ya in Texas .
Not REEL sure I wanna.......................lol
Thanks Billy, I had a big day yesterday, went to sleep infront of the TV about 10:30 Pm, woke up about 1:15 Am. I said to the wife this morning, why did`nt you wake me @ midnight, she said she went to bed @ 10 Pm her self, it is now 7:35 Am here it forcast for a nice cool 29 C today. your not sounding very possitive Billy, hope every thing is okay in your world.
Yes many thanks to Joe for your u-tube on the motor, I did not know the was a filter under the filter near the electric pump, so that is a great help, thanks again Joe.
Glad it worked out , I was not sure if you had a low pressure or high pressure fuel system . Happy New Year ....
Quote from: Donnyboat on December 31, 2021, 11:40:42 PM
Thanks Billy, I had a big day yesterday, went to sleep infront of the TV about 10:30 Pm, woke up about 1:15 Am. I said to the wife this morning, why did`nt you wake me @ midnight, she said she went to bed @ 10 Pm her self, it is now 7:35 Am here it forcast for a nice cool 29 C today. your not sounding very possitive Billy, hope every thing is okay in your world.
Yes many thanks to Joe for your u-tube on the motor, I did not know the was a filter under the filter near the electric pump, so that is a great help, thanks again Joe.
EVERYTHING is DIDGERY DOO here Mate ;D
I don't want another year like the last 2 is what I meant to Convey .
I promised my self to do MORE FISHUN in 2022 .
2 hours and about 40 minutes to NEW YEAR HERE .
Thanks Billy & Joe, as fore casted, we have had a nice cool 27C here most of the day, apprentice Patricia & I, siphoned, the fuel out of the tank today, we had 6, 20 ltr container almost full, before the hose stopped siphoning, then I managed to get my granddaughters partner Ben, to give me a hand, to lift the tank out then prop it up, with the filling hose inlet pointing upwards, then I managed to cable tye the hose to an old peice of fishing rod, then we place it into the bottom corner of the tank, with the other end of the hose out throu the bilge bung hole, so the hose was not to high, then I blue into the hose & almost sucked my eye balls out, we managed to get about 3 cups full of fuel & water out of the tank, mostly water, so apprentice Patty done a good job this morning, & I did not have to call her Patrishit once, what a great new year we are having, I hope it will continue,?.
then we managed to clean any corrosion up with a wire brush, then sprayed it with, Dilux metalic shield, bright zinc paint, including the hose, inlet spout & the breather spout, gave it about an hour to dry, then coated it with Yamaha marine grease, & placed the tank back into it original position. cheers Don.
Good for you and your Helpers . Thats the way to do it !!!
At this point I would see if I could rig a bottle or can to hook up to the inlet side of pump and put some fuel conditioner in it then with the spark plugs removed put some towels around the heads and spin the engine through to spit out all the crap in the injectors and cylinders .Won't hurt at all to mix some automatic trans fluid or BEST is to get some Marvel Mystery Oil to the solution .
Put everything back together add GOOD Fuel ,purge the air out and go for a Boat Ride.
that looks like a good idea Billy, should be didgery doo Mate, your starting to sound like an Aussie, you know the reason why we call each other Mate, its because were to dense to remember a persons name, ha haa, I will follow your last suggestion, I want to take the fuel pump out first, as my friend Rick, when we were out @ sea, took the internals of the fuel pump out, maybe I should replace the rubber casket in it, as the first move, & if I can get the carbie out, & remove the sludge from it, & maybe clean the jets out, cheer for now Don.
Quote from: Donnyboat on January 01, 2022, 04:26:01 PM
that looks like a good idea Billy, should be didgery doo Mate, your starting to sound like an Aussie, you know the reason why we call each other Mate, its because were to dense to remember a persons name, ha haa, I will follow your last suggestion, I want to take the fuel pump out first, as my friend Rick, when we were out @ sea, took the internals of the fuel pump out, maybe I should replace the rubber casket in it, as the first move, & if I can get the carbie out, & remove the sludge from it, & maybe clean the jets out, cheer for now Don.
If it is Fuel Injected it doesn't have a Carbie and depending on what year you have it can have a variety of Fuel Distribution options .
If you can shoot us a pic of the top of the engine it would help to determine just what you have.
e-mail the pic and I will post it if you need to
Donny, does your area put ethanol in the gasoline? If so that could be your problem. Google "phase separation." Dominick
Okay Billy I will try to get some pictures today, Dom I am not sure how they formulate the fuel, but I would think there using ethanol, cheers Don.
Quote from: Donnyboat on January 01, 2022, 10:57:10 PM
Okay Billy I will try to get some pictures today, Dom I am not sure how they formulate the fuel, but I would think there using ethanol, cheers Don.
Ethanol SUCKS and condenses /collects moisture BIG TIME! IF you HAVE to use that CRAP you need to keep the tank FULL and use a Fuel additive that will get rid of water .
Best to use NON ETHANOL Fuel ,it is worth the extra cost beleive me if you can get it .
:-[ I reread the thread and had that rutt row thought .. That filter housing shares a chamber for the high pressure pump also , and has a water jacket to cool fuel . That usual is a set up with 8 fuel injectors .
You say carbie and GM did have a throttle body looking carburetor with 2 fuel injectors i believe .
I can post up a few more utubes if you need them . I will wait to see your pictures first to narrow down the rite system .
Thanks Joe, I contacted Willy today telling him that it may take a few days before I can send pictures, there is a bridge of fibre glass over that area restricting light, & I dont want to use a trouble light till I have the fuel tank seeled of, incase of sparks ignighting any fuel, thanks fore following this post for me Joe & Billy, cheers Don.
If you have the cool fuel assembly shown in the utube video posted by Joe then you have a multi port fuel injection. Depending on year and serial number there has been updated changes to that generation cool fuel. For one. The water lines heading into the back of the cool fuel unit. If they have a bracket that spans to both hoses with a nut in the middle to fasten it to the unit. BE VERY AWARE. Those ends break off Very Easily. There is a bush fix for it. Although it could possibly not work or damage the unit itself. Secondly the cap right next to the handle that houses the filters is where both low and high pumps are. Again depending on year serial # the paint on the underside of that cap as well as filter area becomes de bonded and gets pushed thru entire fuel system. Clogging fuel rail, lines, injector screens and fuel pressure regulator. The updated caps that don't have the issue are flat black where the ones that peel are gloss. Obviously water is no good. But if you're going to be pulling the pumps out might as well address other issues if you have them. If you have older style water lines. Do not touch them don't even move the hose unless you're prepared to repair/replace. Check to see if parts are available.
Best of luck,
Pete
Pete ,sounds like you been around the block on these .
I was wanting pix of his actual system to help trouble shoot his situation but sounds like you can help more than what I know on these .
Thanks for jumping in .
Hi Pete, thanks for coming into this post, I am sure its the same, model as Joe had on u-tube, but I will get some pictures soon,.
I took the tank back out today, managed to get about 4 ltr in throu the sender caverty, then tried to siphil it out but, was not getting it to siphil, so we turnt the tank over & tipped the fuel into a clear open plastic container, there was quite a bit of crap came out, so I has happy that we done that.
I have to get some gasket goo for the sender gasket, then place the hoses back on the some new filters, then I will get some picture, then you should be able to direct me on the correct protocols, cheers Don
What year is the boat engine and do you have a repair manual ?
This may help , this is the start of the fuel section https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1201866/Mercruiser-305-Cid-5-0l.html?page=396#manual
There is 4 section on the fuel systems used over the years .
Sounds like you're on the right track. If your sender gasket is not rubber don't waste your time with goop and old gasket. It's just not worth it. Sender gasket and screws are #2 culprit for water in the gas tank. Attached photo is gasket kit with new screws and sealing washers can be had for $11.
Joe thanks for all that info, our motor was fitted 2010, 5.0 MPI B 1.7R Model number 4-M420G47U U
serial Number 1A619895
Pete thanks for the info on the rubber gasket, yes I had a rubber gasket in it, that still not in bad condition, but I will try to get a new one, last time I used Permatex permashield fuel resistant gasket dressing & sealant, non hardening non setting.
I was told to use anouther product in a tin, it cost me AU$50, I brought it about 150 miles away from our place, when I got home & tried to work with it, it was set hard in the tin, I tried to mix some metho with it, but it was to far gone for that, so I had to through it. cheers Don.
Here are some pix . From Don
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/20463_04_01_22_9_55_38_360951137.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/20463_04_01_22_9_56_40_360961268.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/20463_04_01_22_9_56_43_361001600.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/20463_04_01_22_9_56_42_360991762.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/20463_04_01_22_9_56_42_360981354.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/36/20463_04_01_22_9_56_40_36096692.jpeg)
??? How are you making out with the engine , was it just filters or you still working on it ?
Thanks Joe, still working on it, having all sorts of trouble, geting mercruiiser parts, even filters & gaskets, the parts division was open on Tuesday, they were supposed to ring me back about the availablity of part, they did not phone me, so I rang them first think on Wednesday morning, the lady tells me they are closed till next Monday, so I have ordered some filters on line, be about a week before I get them.
On the bright side, I went net fishing with my mate, using his boat, we had a net each, I caught my quota with our net, he only caught 5 fish, it was a very nice evening on the water, got back home about 12:30 am, had a sleep in this morning, not the right thing to do when there forecasting 37 C today, best to get early starts in the summer, cheers Don.
Keep in mind some of these parts can be found at the auto parts store !!
Thanks Joe & everyone, I almost took the electric pump out today, finnished up removing the altinator & the water pump, so I could get at the bolt/ crews, then it started to get hot in the shed, so I finnished a couple of jobs out side, such as cleaning the fish net, & stitching a couple of hole, we caught our quota of taylor hearing & mullet, all good, managed to get some gasket goo, for the sender, still waiting on filters, so know rush, cheers Don.
So you are going to remove the vapor separator tank . This one has a good break down of the system . This is going to be a exciser of all your patience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgXkhJnL6lI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVoRMNb5EjM
Joe thanks for the fuel system video, very handy, when we were out @ sea, my mate pulled the two electric pump cylinders out, for the want of a better word to describe them, although I only glance @ them from a distance, they looked to be reasonable cleen, compared with the two in the video, the video did not mention the little flat filter below the other crappy filter there, I imadgen it will hook out quite easy, I am having, trouble extracting the fuel line from the back side of the pump, I have removed the locking bolt, but with my bad left shoulder, I am not getting enough purchase to force it out, I think there is a o ring that it locks into, Joe I dried to down load the works manual, without any luck, I chose the 5 lt sea cor one thats the only 5 lt manual ilestated there, after I failed to down loud it, I see that they want US$ 6:+ / month then on after, the fuel pump I have has an area to place a rubber gasket into, its not flat like the one on the video, that round filter that was in the video, mercruiser charge us AU$50:00 for them. cheers Don.
OK the manual , just try hitting the blue arrows to bring you to the next page , you don`t have to down load the manual
I would try to wash the bottom strainer first , the canister filter you should be able to get at the auto parts store .
Or try ebay or other sources ., price shop
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224225718249?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D235969%26meid%3D887f6fbc39814f
Are the pumps working ?
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1201866/Mercruiser-305-Cid-5-0l.html?page=440#manual
I reposted the manual starting with the fuel injection pages 440 and on .
This is another manual that might be easier to use . http://www.atlanticmobilemarine.com/service%20manual%205&57.pdf
Thanks for every thing Joe, I have the pump out now, & it is in good condition by the looks of it, after compairing it with the pics on your u tube you posted, I will have to get back to you tomorrow, I am under the pump tonight, I have to pack the car with rods & reel, I am going to a market in the morning.
It is now 9 Pm, buy the time I pack the car, & have a shave, it will be close to 10 Pm, have to be up @ 3 Am. thanks again Joe, cheers Don.
I gave the moduals a trial out of the pump today, they are working well, still waiting for parts before I place it back together, I washed the bottom filter, flat strainer, possibly good, but I have ordered another one, now to study the works manual, then see if I can move up to the the intake & injectors, cheers Don.
Mandurah out boards, who I generally get parts through sent me a plan of the electric pump, with parts numbers, it is listed that the two rubber rings on the outlet side of the pump, are not sold seperatly, part numbers 7 & 8, also the rubber gasket that fits below the first module, part number 12 not sold seperatly, so they are trying to tell me I have to buy a new pump, just because of those three parts, thats the support you can xspect from Mercruiser, cheers Don.
:o Aren't they just o rings that you can get at a auto parts store ?
Yes Joe one O ring inside the the outlet of the pump, the other is a flatter kind of shape that fits over the outlet pipe, I think I can find them okay, it is part number 12 that will be the hardest, to find it fits under the first pump module, cheers Don.
Just to make sure , you have a transfer or some call it a lift pump between the water seperator and the Mercruiser fuel module .
I would reuse the old #12 . The pump is in fuel also in that chamber so there is no problem . The system is at 5-8 pounds pressure feeding the high pressure pump witch will go to 35-40 pounds rail pressure .
Special thank Joe for all your info Joe, I think your true AHANA man after you sending me a personal email explaining it all.
just for other members, a friend over here suggested transfering 2 stroke oil into the piston area, two help relube that area, then place the plugs back in, & it should burn quite easy.
another chap over here suggested, I use a hose out of a outboard fuel tank, with the rubber primer on it to transfer the oil into the piston area, were learning all the time, cheers Don.
Quote from: Donnyboat on January 14, 2022, 02:37:10 AM
Special thank Joe for all your info Joe, I think your true AHANA man after you sending me a personal email explaining it all.
just for other members, a friend over here suggested transfering 2 stroke oil into the piston area, two help relube that area, then place the plugs back in, & it should burn quite easy.
another chap over here suggested, I use a hose out of a outboard fuel tank, with the rubber primer on it to transfer the oil into the piston area, were learning all the time, cheers Don.
If you have the primer bulb , i would put it in line between the tank and water separator . That way when you change separator filter you can easily prime it and the rest of the system .
Another thought, going through my crazy head, as mercruiser failed to get back to me on Fri or Sat about the price of a new electric fuel pump or the availability, I am thinking maybe using an inline fuel pump, approximatly 60 PSI, & doing away with the fuel cooling set up just joining the water pipes together, any adverse suggestions with this idea, cheers Don.
I assume your pump is not working ? Is it locked up ? You might free it up by running it backwards with test leads to a battery .
The pump is just a chevy - general motors pump . auto parts store should have a match .
the fuel cooling system is there because there is no return line back to the fuel tank like you would see in a automobile !
You can blow air in to the exhaust side of the pump to blow out any trash that the pump may have picked up . It is a gerotor type pump .
I don't know what parts 7,8 &12 are off top of my head. I'll look them up on Mercury EPC tomorrow when I get to work. I'll let ya know if they're available separately or not. I may have some used ones I can mail to you (from the states) if yours are bad. I'll look tomorrow.
Pete
Thanks Pete & Joe, I have managed to get the rubber gasket, that fits under the top cap, the other rubber gasket that fits under the first pump module, is the one Mercruiser are telling us the dont supply seperatly, so they xpect you to buy a new pump, as Joe said, I could possibly use an O ring in place of Part Number 12, very poor back up by Mercruiser, one of the agents over here wants 1700 bucks for a new pump, but would not be able to get it for 4 months, & it would possibly cost another 100 buck postage. part number 7 is like a flat rubber that fits over the out let pipe, & part Number 8 is only an O ring, that should not be able to get over here, through an auto shop, thanks cheers Don.
I found a #12.
That sounds good Pete, I will send you a personal message via the forum here, cheers Don.
I have been dealing with peterocck, he it looking for parts for me, over there & has part number 12 available for me, thats the part they have been telling me is not available with out buying the full electric pump, thanks for all your trouble Pete, also i must admit that oldmanjoe & billy Wompas have also helped me a lot, Pete your true OHANA Man, cheers Don.
If this group can't solve a problem then quite possibly the problem doesn't really exist 😉. The depth of knowledge here is astounding. We have Science Fanboys, Old School Mechanics, Lightning Experts, Marine Science Biologists, Pharmacists, Unauthorized Factory Repairmen, Authors, PhD's, Marine Mechanics, Computer Science, Gunsmiths, the list goes on and I apologize for not listing you if I missed your calling. Everyone has experiences and specialties and contributes in their own way. This makes up the Ohana! A Better Bunch of Guys and Gals you will never meet. Bill
Right on Bill, cheers Don.
Sorry I made a mistake calling Peterocck, a true OHANA, he contacted me saying he has posted the part, I was after, he said he did not send it with a tracking number as they wanted an xstra US$ 60:00 to post it with a tracking number, I dont think the USA want to deal with us Aussie down under, they must think we too downnn underrrr.
Well I contacted Peterocck, & asked him what I owe him for the parts & postage, he said dont worry about it its on him, so he is double OHANA, but I am still working on him, so I can pay.
Pete thanks for your generousity, but concidering that I could not get part 12, without buying a complete new pump, I think it is only fair that, you xsept some payment, cheers Don.
??? That is crazy money for a envelope being sent .
Good job Pete
Hi Don, I've just been reading this thread again from front to back. Its just marvellous the amount of input you've been receiving from guys on this site.
I've never undertaken serious work on a motor like that but nothing on cars, trucks motorbikes ever stood in my way and that was only with the help of experience and workshop manuals.
I know the feeling of not being able to obtain parts, I also live in the stick.
I hope this job is providing you with satisfaction and more of that when you start her up for the first time!
In the second post I said "Good luck with locating the problem, may take till next year! Grin" we are in next year but that is the way with those jobs if you do them properly and no deterrent I am sure.
Best whishes!
Thanks Cor, yes these bloke bent over backwards to help me it was very kind of Pete to find the parts post them to me, @ know cost what so ever, but dont worry I will even up with him overtime, I have paid a few things forward on this forum, but all in all, I am still on the winning end of things, great nice people on this forum ay, cheers Don.
Wellcould you believe it Pete`s mail with the gaskets have arrived, with out the tracking number, I cant believe it got here so quick, I have a parcel posted from Sydney, Australia, two weeks before, & it is still not here.
I sent Pete an email asking him to give me the price of the parts & Mail, & the igrant devil never even replied, I see by the mail stamp 2:60 US $, that would be about AU$ 4:00, generally when we post anything that size in Australia, it would cost us AU$12:00.
Anyway a special plug for Pete, if anyone needs a good reliable, job done or parts, I see Pete has a foot note here & on it is-JASPER ENGINES & TRANSMISSIONS- WWW.jasperengines.com, by the way by the postage envellope, he lives in SHELTON, CT, if that helps anyone to contact him. ever so greatful Pete.
And a special thanks from all the others that have given me good advice on this engine, cheers Don.
Quote from: Donnyboat on March 10, 2022, 12:28:00 PMWellcould you believe it Pete`s mail with the gaskets have arrived, with out the tracking number, I cant believe it got here so quick, I have a parcel posted from Sydney, Australia, two weeks before, & it is still not here.
I sent Pete an email asking him to give me the price of the parts & Mail, & the igrant devil never even replied, I see by the mail stamp 2:60 US $, that would be about AU$ 4:00, generally when we post anything that size in Australia, it would cost us AU$12:00.
Anyway a special plug for Pete, if anyone needs a good reliable, job done or parts, I see Pete has a foot note here & on it is-JASPER ENGINES & TRANSMISSIONS- WWW.jasperengines.com, by the way by the postage envellope, he lives in SHELTON, CT, if that helps anyone to contact him. ever so greatful Pete.
And a special thanks from all the others that have given me good advice on this engine, cheers Don.
Don what you experienced here is that there OHANA stuff so prevalent on this site !
And all I can say about Jasper Engines is that they are the Finest Quality in the WORLD and the machinist have to be of German Descent ! I have used them quite a bit in the past for stuff I did not do myself . Never a Problem .
Glad you received the parts . Now we can wait for the rest of the rebuild unfold .
Thanks Henry Billy Wompus, Petes buisness is worth a good honest plug Like that.
Yes good Joe I will try to keep you all posted, possibly mid next week before I can do much, as my wife is having very bad back troubles, I have to take her to another surgeon on Monday, cheers Don.