A topic on Bloodydecks now. How should you clean a reel after a 3 or 4 day trip. A avet guy is adamant that it's fine to drop your reels into a bucket to remove the salt. Than wipe dry.
What do you guys think ? Without breaking your reels down what do you experts do ?
Not the best advice considering after the submersion the reel will have to be completely taken apart and thoroughly cleaned, dried, and new oil/grease applied. Depending on how much the reel was used the drags will need to be inspected and cleaned/replaced depending on the wear.
After my long range trips my rods and reels are going to be rinsed off with fresh water then toweled off. This all you need to do to eliminate salt. As a note before rinsing tighten the drag settings to full, and after dried off back the drags all the way off. Any rods with roller guides will need some light lubricant sprayed ( Corrosion X) on the rollers and spun to insure penetration.
I would never submerge a reel in water! Making sure your drags on your reels are set or tightened, not loose. Lightly rinse your reels off with freshwater in spray bottle then turn handles ,oh say 30 to 40 revolutions to remove loose water on spools, then wipe dry with soft cloth such as microfiber. Then I let them air dry in garage, next day turn handles on reels to get everything moving and loose, now you can back off drags and wipe them down with a dry soft rag with some T9 Boeshield applied, let sit out another day or so to make sure everything is nice and dry then repeat turning handle and moving lever function, now you can store away. This method is recommended by one of the top reel repair service centers in San Diego county. Hope this helps.
And Avet wonders why the have corrosion and bearing issues? I just don't get it. Well they have their feelings about this, but most in the know and on this site would never dunk their reels, that is unless they have to.
Avet also says to run their drags dry, without drag grease. Some people need to be dragged into the 21st century.
Some people need to be dragged into the 21st century.
Thats a good one Mark....lol,,,pun intended i hope..
Brett
Sorry to disagree, in fact, when I lived in an apartment and came back from fishing, the first thing I did was to put the rods and reels in the swimming pool while I unloaded the boat. When finished with the boat, I would swish the rods around, especially the tips and take them into the apt. to dry. After multiple years of this, the reels were torn down and found to be in perfect shape, no corrosion, no lube issues, etc. Think about it. How will water hurt waterproof grease? This isn't exactly rocket science.
This is my take.
Rinse your reels every day in fresh water after fishing.
If you feel you need to drop them in the pool, that is OK, but something I would never do.
Proper reel care and maintenance will never replace putting your reels underwater.
I rinse them and dry them every day, then service them completely when the trip is over.
No Guesswork, just take care of them the way they were meant to.
When I grab it again, I know it is ready from the inside out, not the outside in. ;)
If my reels went swimming in the salt I give them a good whirl in a bucket of fresh water, sometimes with a drop of dish washing liquid and I just leave them to dry, no opening or servicing and they have no corrosion. My own rule is if a reel or any other fishing tackle can't even handle fresh water it fails the test and goes to the bin.
Not a bad rule Leon, especially if you want to keep on fishing, but some salt water could still be trapped in there.
So, I always take the reel completely apart when I get home, after it has been dunked in saltwater.
It really doesn't take long and it's a small price to pay.
Just my opinion of course.
Sal
I used to do that and have found that I just open my reels for no reason and if I don't have time to close them up it increases the risk of my sons finding the box of parts while I am at work and using them as star wars or toy gun props. I don't have corrosion in any of my reels, not since I have started following the AT method. Sometimes they get a spray with tackle guard. At first I would open them often if they went for a swim and then realised they still look the same. The saltwater proof drill rig grease and reel x I use seems to do the trick.
I soak my reels in freshwater and have been doing it for years. All of my drag washers are greased. Freshwater in a reel is not the problem, salt is. I also tale the side plates off often. Forcing salt further into a reel by blasting them with water is not good, gently misting them is better.
I spray my reels with freshwater most days while on long range trips. On the ride home on long range trips, I dunk my reels in a bucket of freshwater, crank the handle a few times and then let them air dry. A few days after I get home, I do a complete service on my reels. This works for me. I'm not sure I'd recommend dunking for reels that aren't going to have a complete service shortly thereafter.
When fishing at home in Alaska, I spray my reels with freshwater after every trip and do a complete service at the end of the season.
My reels are **always** in better shape than the reels in get in the shop for service.
Quote from: akfish on May 21, 2019, 02:59:03 PM
My reels are **always** in better shape than the reels in get in the shop for service.
This is mostly true for me too however one friend's reels are always a joy to work on. The last batch of "reels from hell" had to be taken apart by prying and hammering due to massive corrosion. I think they were soaked in saltwater then tossed aside for a few years.
Quote from: day0ne on May 21, 2019, 05:11:08 AM
Sorry to disagree, in fact, when I lived in an apartment and came back from fishing, the first thing I did was to put the rods and reels in the swimming pool while I unloaded the boat. When finished with the boat, I would swish the rods around, especially the tips and take them into the apt. to dry. After multiple years of this, the reels were torn down and found to be in perfect shape, no corrosion, no lube issues, etc. Think about it. How will water hurt waterproof grease? This isn't exactly rocket science.
I will admit that 6-7 years ago, while vacationing in the outer banks, after returning from a day of surf fishing I would toss my rods and reels in the swimming pool while I cleaned out my truck and put other things away. I still use these reels and they work fine. Daiwa Saltist BG30H
Would I do this again? No
Quote from: akfish on May 21, 2019, 02:59:03 PM
I spray my reels with freshwater most days while on long range trips. On the ride home on long range trips, I dunk my reels in a bucket of freshwater, crank the handle a few times and then let them air dry. A few days after I get home, I do a complete service on my reels. This works for me. I'm not sure I'd recommend dunking for reels that aren't going to have a complete service shortly thereafter.
When fishing at home in Alaska, I spray my reels with freshwater after every trip and do a complete service at the end of the season.
This is a good question — and an easy one to overthink for us reel mechanics who are capable of completely tearing apart and lubricating a reel in short order.
I look at quality reels as tools — not Holy Grails to be pulled out once a year just to worship and look at.
A quality reel was made to work in water environments.
For me, nothing wrong with dunking a salt used reel in a bucket of fresh water for 15 or 20 minutes — I do close the drags down. If my reel can't take that treatment, after I have properly prepped, serviced, and spooled it — it is not the reel for me.
Now, if I know I will be able to do a proper service in a day, or so — it just gets a light spray or rinse of fresh water — drags stay tightened down.
30 years ago, Carl Newell recommended that this be done when on long range trips with his reels. Of course, his reels were mostly SS with dry drags. With the Marine grade Yamalube, or Penn grease we use today — coupled with CF Cal's grease coated drags — it is even easier to dunk a reel for 15 minutes.
Proper prep, grease, and common sense experience are key, IMO.
The worst reels I get across the bench are ones used in the salt — Then just stored in a garage for a couple of years.
Thinking ahead, timing, trip duration, an when planned service is scheduled — are all useful when keeping your gear in top shape and always operational.
Many of the old timers have a lot of horse sense. Many things that are useful and smart are also counter-intuitive to our more modern upbringing. As an example, many experienced woodsmen who work the timber for a living — always store their axes in a bucket of water. The heads may get rusty — but they will always be tight and capable when needed.
Just my opinions...
Best,
Fred
I still dunk or swamp my reels in fresh water with the drags tight. Note that all of my reels are pre-serviced. After dunking/swamping the reels, I spin and shake my reels so that most of the water is out of the reel and bearings. If I dunk them in a bucket, then I repeat it a few times in a fresh bucket of water as I don't want any salt brine in the water.
my reels are also pre-serviced, so i can run them under water from a sink to rinse them off. then i will dry them and, if i have time, spray them with a little corrosion x and wipe them down again.
I service my reels each season. So when I get back from fishing I take the rod and reel in the shower. I tighten the drags first then loosen and put over the heater vent or in the sun. The reels with drain holes are pointed up to let the water vapor out. When I service them I don't see any adverse effects from this procedure. I suppose all the procedures mentioned will work. I just go for easy. Dominick
I've been spraying some salt away on my reels and then rinsing them thoroughly with the hose or in the sink. Whenever I do get around to opening them up, the insides all appear good to go. The outsides, though, seem to get much cleaner after. Dang things darn near sparkle!
Several threads on this topic. I think it boils down to understanding what materials you are working with, and what you you are trying to prevent.
1. In reels designed to be used in saltwater, all the components are typically highly resistant to freshwater corrosion, but some of the components are not highly resistant to chlorides. Dissimilar metals in contact in a chloride solution creates the equivalent of a battery- leading to galvanic corrosion of the less noble metal (typically aluminum in these scenarios. Galvanic corrosion is the nightmare scenario where significant corrosion happens the fastest. keeping moisture out (hard to do -marine air is pretty humid), or providing a barrier between the dissimilar metals (like grease, or products designed to prevent galvanic corrosion) is the ticket to minimizing galvanic corrosion. a single metal can still corrode in saltwater, but usually not as quickly as the galvanic corrosion situation.
2. Saltwater is a chloride solution. Swimming pool water is also (to a varying degree - depends on the pool). Tap water is usually OK.
3. Ball bearings and one-way bearings are almost always made with a 400 series stainless steel alloy containing carbon (carbon allows the alloy to be hardened). These alloys are reasonably freshwater corrosion resistant, but much less resistant to saltwater/chloride corrosion.
4. Fresh water is a very good solvent for salt. Combining fresh with salt water dilutes the salt content very quickly. Water temperature does not change the solvency of salt [clarification-water temperature does not significantly change the amount of salt (NaCl) that can be dissolved, but warmer water will dissolve salt crystals a bit faster]. Adding soap does not improve the salt solvency (but is more likely to degrade the grease and other lubricants).
5. A far as I can tell, "salt-away" type products do not increase the salt solvency of the water it is mixed with. What these products appear to do is increase the surface tension of water beads, so the water "sheets" and stays in contact with vertical surface longer, giving the water more time to dissolve salt crystals. At least some of the products leave a coating behind that also works as a barrier to salt corrosion. (if there is an expert on this stuff out there, feel free to correct me).
6. So called "sealed" reels that are sort of "waterproof" might not benefit from a soak, as the extended immersion might let water into the sealed area, where it would not wash out. The freshwater dissolving action works by the contact of moving molecules, and the fresh water will either be excluded, or will slowly seep in and become trapped.
7. Soaking is not a replacement for routine maintenance. A pre-service adding a light coating of grease on internal metal surfaces and screw holes prevents salt from getting a foothold. Once pitting starts, salt crystals become more "embedded" and will be more difficult to dissolve in fresh water.
In summary, soaking in fresh water is a good way to dissolve and remove salts from a reel with the possible exception of "sealed" reels . A reel that uses components that cannot get wet is already useless, and I don't think that many exist. Salt is what we need to worry about, not water. Soap will not help dissolve salt, but could degrade lubricants. Also warm soapy water may carry dissolved lubricants where you don't want them. Ensuring that the reel dries out after soaking means that any salt left behind will be in crystals, which is less corrosive than in solution. Less moisture will usually help lubricants last longer. Routine maintenance, especially a pre-service before the reel is ever used, ensures that vulnerable parts have a protective barrier.
I soak my reels for 20-30 minutes at least weekly when using them daily. If there is a half teaspoon of saltwater in my reel, a gallon of fresh water will dilute by 1/1500 - no need to change the water and re-dunk. Full breakdown and re-lube once a year. Works for me. It is tough to soak the salt out of braid. Still working on that.
And lots of folks here disagree with me on this topic. I do my best to keep an open mind :)
-J
Very interesting rationale that you have presented above - thank you Jurelometer.
As I read, the 20-30min weekly dunking is a strategy to deal with salt in the reel, and an annual breakdown once a year works out fine for you.
Over time, do you not get displaced lubricant or a sticky drag?
"...it boils down to understanding what materials you are working with, and what you you are trying to prevent".
"Soaking is not a replacement for routine maintenance".
I would love to find a similar solution that works for our application. A full breakdown after every 2 - 3 sessions is a requirement! Heavy reel use (multipliers), together with all pervasive salt (especially when using braid that has lost its "slick" coating and carries water) - to the point that on a hot and windy day, the salt is visibly apparrent, encrusted on the rod guides. Our heavy use requires proper lubrication, hence my question.
I don't mind the maintenance so much, nothing like starting a session with the smell and feel of a prepped and tuned reel. Of the worries in my life, reel failure when on and properly tight with a fish is right up there!
Quote from: Leerie18 on May 22, 2019, 07:12:35 AM
Very interesting rationale that you have presented above - thank you Jurelometer.
As I read, the 20-30min weekly dunking is a strategy to deal with salt in the reel, and an annual breakdown once a year works out fine for you.
Over time, do you not get displaced lubricant or a sticky drag?
"...it boils down to understanding what materials you are working with, and what you you are trying to prevent".
"Soaking is not a replacement for routine maintenance".
I would love to find a similar solution that works for our application. A full breakdown after every 2 - 3 sessions is a requirement! Heavy reel use (multipliers), together with all pervasive salt (especially when using braid that has lost its "slick" coating and carries water) - to the point that on a hot and windy day, the salt is visibly apparrent, encrusted on the rod guides. Our heavy use requires proper lubrication, hence my question.
I don't mind the maintenance so much, nothing like starting a session with the smell and feel of a prepped and tuned reel. Of the worries in my life, reel failure when on and properly tight with a fish is right up there!
Soaking in room temperature tap water should not displace marine grease.
Carbon fiber washers are pretty absorbent in their original state. Whatever gets on the washers first will probably stick to it. If the stuff ends up creating a larger difference between static and dynamic coefficients of friction, you end up with a more sticky drag. This is why the majority of reel repair experts here recommend a drag grease (not just any grease) on carbon fiber washers. Once coated, it is much harder to contaminate with something else, and the difference between static and dynamic coefficient of friction with drag grease is less than dry washers. Cal's Universal and Shimano drag grease are popular. I only have experience with Cal's.
The downside to greased drag washers is that greater clamping pressure is required to achieve the same drag setting, and the coefficient of friction can decrease as the drag heats up (drag gets lighter). This is why a few holdout manufacturers still don't like lubed drags. but the rest of us think that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
The risk for salt in the braid is primarily spool corrosion.
If properly serviced, you shouldn't have to take the reel apart after every couple of sessions for maintenance unless sand is getting into the reel, or you are using very light oil on the bearings to improve casting distance with lighter weights. Marine grease is your friend. It stay tends to stay where it is put, and provides a protective barrier to corrosion. Grease should go everywhere you can get away with it, which usually means everything but levelwind mechanisms and possibly spool ball bearings involved in casting. I grease my spool ball bearings as well. A slight drop in casting distance on my reels doesn't bother me much.
If your reel has a fiber filled nylon frame (AKA "graphite"), taking it apart frequently will weaken the female threads in the nylon. Self tapping or thread forming screws for plastics are used, and these type of threaded connections are not designed for frequent re-assembly. You don't want to take these type of reels apart on a regular basis if it can be avoided.
Hope this helps,
-J
Fresh water is your friend what ever your method may be. Works great for me for many years.
Dwight
Quote from: alantani on May 21, 2019, 04:24:19 PM
my reels are also pre-serviced, so i can run them under water from a sink to rinse them off. then i will dry them and, if i have time, spray them with a little corrosion x and wipe them down again.
IMO we have the best rational here.
Swim with your reels, I bet chlorine is great, a bucket wash is a no brainier I'm sure, force salt deeper into a reel than it has it ever has been before. All of this sounds like the right move to me. Just think about what you are doing before you actually do it.
I'm sure several things will be fine, BUT it is your reel so how do you want to take care of it?
And yes the dragged commit way was a pun...good catch bhale1
Newell's goal was a corrosion proof reel (he never got there) and recommended dunking them in a bucket of water. Avet seems to be following along that same line. Keep in mind that Avet is still not greasing their drags so take their advice with a large grain of salt! If dunking lubricated devices exposed to salt water is a good idea then you should drive your car into a swimming pool if exposed to salt on the roads in the winter. Bad idea? Yeah, that's what I thought for reels too!
The greases we use are very water resistant and soaking in fresh water has little to no effect on them, driving your car into the water is foolish.
High pressure spray forces salt into a reel, especially a loose tolerance reel like Avets. Gental misting is far better.
Soaking desolves or dilutes the salt and it flushes out. If soaking a reel is so bad my close to 20 year old Avets would be scrap metal. Note, my drags are all greased.
Maybe a fully pre-fished cleaning/lubed reel as suggested here would be dunkable. I doubt an out of the box reel from the factory is in any condition to be dunked. But if you want to dunk then dunk... it's your reel but I won't be following your lead.
Like I said, close to 20 years soaking, not dunking, on my Avets and they still fish. They might melt the next time. It's far worse to blast them with high pressure forcing salt into them.
I rinse all my reels with warm water (not hot) after every trip. Never had any issues and my reels are maintained 2-3 times during the season.
I just realized that I was being imprecise in using dunk (possibly just a quick dip) and soak (immersed for at least several minutes) interchangeably. I am a proponent of soaking. Maybe dunking might be an option for "sealed" reels, but I don't intend to own any. Sorry for any confusion.
My reply to comments from various folks:
Quote from: MarkTIf dunking lubricated devices exposed to salt water is a good idea then you should drive your car into a swimming pool if exposed to salt on the roads in the winter.
I wouldn't soak a reel if it had an unsealed electrical system, an internal combustion engine, a gasoline tank with an air vent, upholstery, etc. But last time I checked, none of my reels was also a car :) :) :)
Quote from: DominickThe reels with drain holes are pointed up to let the water vapor out.
Might be better to leave the drain holes down. Anything that drips out can carry salt. Evaporation leaves behind accumulated salt crystals, all concentrated at the lowest point.
Quote from: MarkT
Maybe a fully pre-fished cleaning/lubed reel as suggested here would be dunkable. I doubt an out of the box reel from the factory is in any condition to be dunked. But if you want to dunk then dunk... it's your reel but I won't be following your lead.
Agree that if you have a method that you are satisfied with, best to stick with it. Real world results are a compelling argument. And I understand that some folks are repelled by the very idea of soaking even though they run many of the same materials through their dishwashers :)
I am still looking for a technical reason why freshwater soaking is a bad idea. As far as I can tell, it sounds like the best anti-soaking argument is based on the idea that freshwater will dissolve the salt, and carry the dissolved salt to other parts of the reel that were not compromised.
Once salt crystals dissolve into solution, the levels of salinity across the solution equalizes immediately (for our purposes). A teaspoon of salt water diluted into a 5 gallon bucket of freshwater means a reduction of about 1/3750(0.00027 - a 99.97 percent reduction in salinity).
For this anti-soaking argument to be correct, a small amount of fresh water has to get separated from the rest of the bucket, pick up some salt inside the reel and then carry it to another part of the reel that is also isolated from the rest of the water.
It is possible that certain reel designs might be more vulnerable to this scenario (e.g. "sealed" spinning and fly reels). But I would argue that this situation is more likely to occur in most reels by spraying water on the reel or showering with it (with or without scented candles :) ), as you are introducing only a small amount of freshwater to dilute with but still risking salt migration inside the reel.
It sounds like there is general agreement that a hard spray can be the most damaging scenario.
-J
-J, I meant that I turn the vents up after they drain to fully dry out the reel. I agree that drying does leave behind salt crystals. Dominick
Fresh water is just as bad when it gets trapped in there ...and it does. Trapped water is very hard to dry on its own, unless you open the reel.
As Dave has mentioned, do what works for you best. As for my personal reels, I will always break the reel down after it has gone for a swim.
Sal
I have not had any of my current reels damaged because they are wet inside from freshwater and I won't buy a reel to fish with that corrodes so easily. I had an old Phlueger and Daiwa pack up no matter how I rinsed and lubed them but have not found any reel I bought in the last 10 years do that. If a reel, rod or any fishing tackle can't handle freshwater I won't use it, I enjoy servicing tackle but I enjoy fishing more so don't want to spend all my time drying and greasing reels.
This is the grease I use
https://finelube.co.za/products/textile-lubricants/greases/89-omega-95
It is resistant against saltwater and flushing out
Leon, I'm glad that grease is working out for you.
Me personally have no issues using what I use and really like it.
You could have the best reel, and if the parts are made from Stainless Steel, depending on the grade of that steel, it could rusted.
Does this mean the reel is junk? absolutely not.
I've opened up a few Newell reels in the past that were loaded with rust, a good cleaning and turned out as good as new.
I trust Newell and older Penn reels more than I do the new stuff.
I service my reels once a year, if they get dunked, I'll service them as soon as I get back home.
Not arguing with you or anyone else, just stating what works for me and what I like to do.
Cheers!
Sal
This is a very interesting read ! The old "whatever works for you" rule seems to apply, here, as with lots of other things ! My "typical" salt water fishing "trip" lasts about 3 months (the amount of time we spend on Dauphin Island), with fishing..of some kind..almost every day. All my "stuff" starts out , fully serviced, and gets a rinse-down, every day, when I get back....unless it takes an unexpected "dunking", or "sand bath", a good rinse seems sufficient to remove the salt, the blood, and and any sand that maye be on the outside of the reel. Once a week, I pull the spools from the spinners, clean and relube the drags, relube the shaft, and clean any sand / crud that's under the spool. All the line rollers, shaft bearings, bail joints, etc., get a drop or two of oil, every day, after I clean stuff up. The "conventionals" that I use, only get fished about once, or twice a week, normally...they get a good rinse-down, drying, and a good wipe-down with Corrosion-X, and a few drops of oil in the appropriate places ,and that's it, until the "trip" is over. When I'm "back home", everything gets a full cleaning /servicing, line comes off,...the works , so it's ready for storage, and the next "trip south" ! All that said, most all my reels are either "low buck" new purchases, or "somebody else's junk", from e-bay, so it's not like I have a lot of $ invested, but, as my dear ole' Dad always said, "If you can't afford "new", ya' better take care of the old !"
There are some adjustable garden hose nozzels that will give you a nice mist. I got one from Costco. That's what I use. Still though, I find little droplets of water when I open 'em up every 3rd trip, or so. Don't know if it's saltwater or tap, but I just Q-tip blot them. Once inna while I'll find a bit of rust on a frequenrtly used favorite reel.
I'm with you on that Gregg, been tightening the drags and using fine mist on my reels and rods after every trip.
I just don't dunk.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 23, 2019, 07:11:11 PM
Fresh water is just as bad when it gets trapped in there ...and it does. Trapped water is very hard to dry on its own, unless you open the reel.
As Dave has mentioned, do what works for you best. As for my personal reels, I will always break the reel down after it has gone for a swim.
Sal
Freshwater is absolutely not as bad as saltwater. All the stainless ball bearings and one-way bearings used in reels that I have seen are made from 440c stainless, which as we all know will corrode in saltwater. But 440c has roughly the same freshwater corrosion properties as 304 stainless (AKA 18-8). I have a kitchen sink made out of 304 and it is wet all the time. No problem Leave a stainless fork in a glass of water for a couple weeks. No problem. Freshwater corrosion resistance is not to hard to get in stainless, but saltwater corrosion resistance is much more difficult. Tradeoffs need to be made in hardness, machinability and ability to be tempered. This is why many stainless reel parts are not made from 316 (the most common grade of stainless with decent saltwater corrosion resistance).
The situation with brass is similar but a bit more complicated.
The plastics generally don't care. Nylon will absorb water to the point where it can affect it dimensionally, but it will dry out in the air fairly quickly.
I think if somebody wanted to, it wouldn't be too hard to take a set of clean reel components, keep them wet with freshwater for a week or two and report back. I won't bother because the corrosion properties of the materials used are already well documented.
You are right in your position regarding introducing fresh water if it is dissolving trapped salt crystals. Salt in solution is more of a corrosion issue than dried salt crystals. If you have salt trapped in a reel, adding moisture will make things worse. This is why I believe that the worst thing is introducing a little bit of freshwater. This adds moisture without the potential for dissolving, diluting and evacuating the salt. I would rather leave my reel crusted in salt than do a quick dunk or turn a sprayer on it.
If your fishing situation allows you to keep the reel mostly dry, and you service the reel when it gets saltwater in it, I won't argue that you are doing something wrong. The type and frequency of fishing that I do makes this approach impractical. Plus I have to confess that servicing my reels is more of a chore than a pleasure :)
Agree that there can be more than one "right way".
-J
How sure are we that 304 is used?
There is 303, only one number away and yet will corrode much more than 304, but it's easy to machine.
You'll often see it in nuts and bolts, gears, fittings and bushings.
304 is popular in projects where aesthetics and cleanliness are key. These include:
Architecture
Kitchens
Food processing
Sal
Before discovering this site we had a routine after fishing. My dad and I would wash the boat and my brother would take care of the rods and reels. He would take the reels off the rods and submerge them in a 5 gal. bucket of fresh water while he hosed off the rods. We only did full services if/when issues arose. The issues we were finding were corroded bearings and thrashed drag stacks.
I'm with Sal now. I tighten the drags and just rinse them with fresh water. I will just mist them when possible or a quick rinse under running water in the sink then a wipe-down. I also wipe them down with WD-40 (a whole other topic)...I started doing the WD-40 because I read it in a Shimano manual. I haven't had any issues...but since being part of this group; I also tend to do full services more often too. I've learned to use less grease in some places and more in others which helps a lot. So does tightening the drag...I wish I understood that concept sooner.
Hi Sal,
What I am trying to say is that a coating of grease and the right oil goes a long way to prevent most decent reels from corroding and being immune to freshwater dunks and being left to shelf dry. No need to open every time. I don't have enough technical background to come up with other reasons other than my own trial and error. I studied biology :) Even my old stock standard Penns were always good to go. I have now even gone so far as to coat rust spots on my pickup with grease!
Cheers,
Leon
I think the measure of a good reel is the extent to which it doesn't matter what you do with it when you get home. I'm usually tired, hungry and craving a beer and tend to just walk away and leave the rod and reel in the rod holder on the boat.... wet with saltwater inside and out. A day to a week later when it's time to go again the reel is often crusty and crunchy. I squirt oil in each side bearing, down the gear shaft and the handle knob, make a tentative cast to spread the oil around and it should be ready to go. If it's not at peek performance after oiling then it is a maintenance hog. You don't have to put up with a maintenance hog. There are reels out there that can take the abuse.
-steve
My thinking is that when salt water gets on the reel either by misting or splashing, it has less surface tension than freshwater. It will creep into every crack and cranny and keep sleeping into the reel non stop.
Saltwater is actually sticky.
As to the way we wash our reels is up to us and our own maintenance habits.
I still dunk them into a bucket of fresh water and swish it around for a couple seconds and shake what I can out and repeat again with another fresh bucket of water and shake like crazy but hang on to it!
I then leave it out to dry under shade for a few days until I'm sure it's completely dried.
"Swish it in a bucket of water, shake it out and let it dry"
That's what Mr. Newell stated in his maintenance instructions years ago and I stuck with it ever since.
Quote from: CapeFish on May 25, 2019, 05:24:38 AM
Hi Sal,
What I am trying to say is that a coating of grease and the right oil goes a long way to prevent most decent reels from corroding and being immune to freshwater dunks and being left to shelf dry. No need to open every time. I don't have enough technical background to come up with other reasons other than my own trial and error. I studied biology :) Even my old stock standard Penns were always good to go. I have now even gone so far as to coat rust spots on my pickup with grease!
Cheers,
Leon
I hear you Leon, I have no more squeaky doors in my house, a drop of TSI 301 and it will last for years. :)
Sal
Wow... Just... Wow...
No, it's not okay. The only circumstance it would be acceptable is if the reel had been completely submerged in saltwater by accident and was dunked in freshwater several times afterwards to dilute the saltwater contained within the reel in order to minimise corrosion damage prior to a complete teardown/rebuilding
I just stumbled into a Accurate Reel article recommending misting and wiping and discouraging dunking. Soaking has worked for me and I will continue to do it. The article insinuated dunking forced salt/saltwater into a reel but the air coming out of the reel would do the opposite. The next time I soak my reels I will take one or two down after a day or so of drying and see how much water is still in the reel.
Just for the heck of it I put a new degreased bearing in a glass of freshwater and will monitor it for a few months.
Question: why does one HAVE to DUNK there reels after use???
To remove salt.
When I lived close to the coast (before the birth of internet) and fished saltwater regularly, I just rinsed my reels under a gentle stream of water from a spigot or hose after use in the salt.
That was long before the notion of disassembling my reels ever occurred to me. But since discovering alantani.com a little over two years ago, I've disassembled, cleaned & rebuilt all of my 60+ reels about twice and found my heaviest used saltwater reels all had little corrosion. Even so, now after a trip to the coast I'll still rinse them... and do a full break down if they've been excessively doused or dunked.
Even if one of my freshwater reels spends serious time under water I'll open it up and at least dry it out.
Quote from: Keta on May 25, 2019, 02:07:49 PM
Just for the heck of it I put a new degreased bearing in a glass of freshwater and will monitor it for a few months.
Try to leave it half exposed to air, fully covered will be fully protected :)
This is one of the reason I love this site, someone asks one simple question and it will usually turn into a 5-10 page thread :)
Sal
Will do.
no need to wait -- tap water is mildly corrosive
look what happens to the sacrificial anode in a water heater
Jul/Aug Philly tap water smells like a freakin' pool :( better to soak your reel in a stream, LOL
conversely, Winter tap water is fine, while urban streams/ponds get a major dose of road salt
just sayin', not all "freshwater" is created equal
quite a range between distilled & just a few ppm's below brackish
Quote from: philaroman on May 25, 2019, 07:02:03 PM
just sayin', not all "freshwater" is created equal
quite a range between distilled & just a few ppm's below brackish
True, my tap water is mineral free and is Crater Lake snow melt water filtered through 25 miles of pumice. Zinc is low on the nobility scale and it does not surprise me they go away in hard water.
On the subject of water, I am a manager of the water treatment plant where I work supplying water for 3 facilities and about 12,000 people, our water process (ion exchange ) was so clean and pure the water was leaching the copper from our pipes and causing blow outs. Funny how transite pipes (asbestos containing) pipes were not affected after 70 years. We now are doing a phosphate injection to coat the pipes to prevent the corrosion. Bill
I saw an episode of Seinfeld that showed even Joe DiMaggio liked to dunk ;D ;D
Personally, I'm not a dunker ;)
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 24, 2019, 11:07:39 PM
How sure are we that 304 is used?
There is 303, only one number away and yet will corrode much more than 304, but it's easy to machine.
You'll often see it in nuts and bolts, gears, fittings and bushings.
304 is popular in projects where aesthetics and cleanliness are key. These include:
Architecture
Kitchens
Food processing
Sal
I was pointing out that stainless bearings are 440c stainless which has about the same corrosion properties as 304. But the less corrosion resistant the alloy, the more soaking should help.
I am not a metallurgist, but I think it works like this:
Pretty much all the grades of stainless will not corrode significantly from contact with pure water. Stainless forms a very thin self-healing layer of chromium oxide that provides corrosion protection. Exposure to harsh chemicals can penetrate this layer and form compounds on the surface that block access to oxygen, preventing chromium oxide from forming and resealing the part. The less corrosion resistant the alloy, the more important it is to remove certain corrosive compounds from the surface. Chlorine bleach will corrode 304 stainless, but sinks don't corrode from bleach because the are constantly being rinsed with fresh tap water! Cleaning is the key to preventing corrosion on stainless steel.
303 corrodes more than 304 because of the sulfur added to 303 to improve machinability. When coming in contact with harsh chemicals, sulfides will form, causing pitting. I would argue that 303 parts would actually benefit more from freshwater soaking.
Quote from: Caranx on May 25, 2019, 07:56:05 AM
My thinking is that when salt water gets on the reel either by misting or splashing, it has less surface tension than freshwater. It will creep into every crack and cranny and keep sleeping into the reel non stop.
Saltwater is actually sticky.
As to the way we wash our reels is up to us and our own maintenance habits.
I still dunk them into a bucket of fresh water and swish it around for a couple seconds and shake what I can out and repeat again with another fresh bucket of water and shake like crazy but hang on to it!
I then leave it out to dry under shade for a few days until I'm sure it's completely dried.
"Swish it in a bucket of water, shake it out and let it dry"
That's what Mr. Newell stated in his maintenance instructions years ago and I stuck with it ever since.
In addition to not being a metallurgist, I am also not a chemist, but shouldn't the whole ion attraction thing mean that saltwater has greater surface tension than freshwater?
But I think you are on the right track. The more salt (NaCl) molecules come in contact with water molecules, the more dissolving (and diluting) will occur.
Also, a salt crystal dried into a pit or crevice will have more of its surface area blocked from contact with water, making dissolving take much longer. I think this is why it is hard to soak the salt out of braided line. My hunch is that if the "don't soak/dunk" crowd turns out to have a valid argument, it will be because these trapped crystals are getting wet, but not dissolved from the soak/dunk.
Just finished a nice 30 minute soak for 6 reels, including some of my favorites. Haven't had issues with corrosion since I started this practice.
-J
Out of interest, I took one of my regularly used reels apart. It has been through a lot of saltwater dunking and subsequent freshwater dunking and I cannot remember when last I opened it for a full service let alone a bearing lube............ :-\ Maybe 18 months ago or about a year. All I do after fishing is rinse it off or if it got in the salt then I will swirl it around in a bucket of freshwater. I leave it to dry on a shelf or on the rod rack. Sometimes it gets a quick spray on the outside with tackle guard. It is a Torium 20 and it is about 14 years old. By pure chance I found some TSI321 in a small seaside town so I thought I may as well service the reel and try it and just in case see if my dunking in freshwater has caused any problems. The reel had one drop of water inside. I should have tasted it to see if it was salt but forgot. There was no sign of any salt or crusting inside and no sign of corrosion at all. Not even at the driveshaft bearing or anti-reverse bearing. There was some fine sand under the star. But no corrosion. I cleaned it all up, cleaned out the bearings and lubed them with the TSI and it is spinning very nicely now.
My pflueger patriarch's don't like water,,,, ??? if it rains to hard,,,,,sealed xt >:( ,,,,,,it doesn't matter I'm giving some wd40 just to keep fishing,,,,,,, ;D