ok, guys, Im totally set on doing my first rod "build" but this will be partial job, I just want to change all guides from my musky rod, nothing wrong with the stock guides this is simply for cosmetic reasons and want to do this job before jumping into make a complete custom rod.
this rod is a factory made for Gander Mtn Pro-select musky rod 7.6ft Heavy Im not sure the quality of the guides but they seem to be aluminium oxide, but they are pretty small and made from thin wire, I want something bit more rough and I will making it on Acid wrap, money IT is an objet right now so, no fancy guides for this job since I might do a butchery and ugly job.
Currently I have set my mind on this three models.
ALPS XXNLG oxide, looks pretty good, eyelets are Hard alluminium oxide (which suposedly its better than simple allum oxide)
http://www.getbitoutdoors.com/components/guides/alps-guides/alps-xn-casting-guides/xbytlg-spinning-guides-7948.html
Fuji MNOG concept "O", its the same style model than MNAG used on trevala rods but the high end models use MNAG Alconice and lower models use Hardloy guides, this is the Concept O guides which are pretty cheap and according to fuji Concept O is one level up from previuos allum oxide almost as good as Hardloy and some parts they say its even better than Hardloy.
http://www.getbitoutdoors.com/components/guides/fuji-guides/concept-o/blnag-10416.html
Fuji NLG Hardloy guides, this dont have a modern look but looks nice and are pretty cheap, are the cheapest from these 3 options, and as you know Hardloy guides dont have any problem when used on any fishing line.
http://www.getbitoutdoors.com/components/guides/fuji-guides/hardloy-guides/bsvlg-double-foot-spin-cast-guides-8288.html
the estimated guide cost of a complete set for my job are:
ALPS XXNLG $ 36.00 H Oxide
Fuji MNAG $ 28.00 Concept "O" oxide
Fuji NLG $ 25.00 Hardloy
of course, with $15-25 more I can get same models with Zirconia guides or Alconite, and these ones will be my choice when making from the scratch a complete rod, my plan its to use a Rainshadow composite blank
Fuji NLG Hardloy guides, this dont have a modern look but looks nice and are pretty cheap, are the cheapest from these 3 options, and as you know Hardloy guides dont have any problem when used on any fishing line.
any recommentation or comment on why going with any of those guide models, specially if you have any experience with budget guides.
Hardloy would be just fine.
Any of those would work but the alps is beefier if your hard on your gear. I have 2 seeker uluas and a 100mag calstar up next in the rack and using alps.
Hey Alex my go to for general casting rod applications up to 30lb test is bnlg hardloy and have caught many large king mackerel and mahi with long runs both on my own builds and penn pc3811's and pc3821's. I use hardloy also on spinners and jigging rods with braid no issues.
John
Hello, I've built on all three choices, but would go with MNOG's for the type of rod you mention.
Concept "O" is the replacement for Hardloy which is being phased out by Fuji.
These new guides cast well, have a durable finish, are reasonably light, and hold up to the 20-40lb.braid that I use.
Also easy on your wallet..:)
well, after seeing your answers, checking the opinions are divided that means any of those will do the job as desired and after thinking how much I might use this rod in the future I will go with the cheapest option now, Fuji NL looks good, ceramic hold up braid (I already have 2 9ft MH surf rod with hardloys), cast really good and silence and I might be using this rod 3-4 times when chasing Sierras, medium YT or leopard grouper before it became a loaner rod for my kids or friends, with bit more experience, in my next build I will be using a better blank with ALPS zirconia or Fuji Alconite at least on any of those 3 models from my 1st post.
thanks guys.
The Alps XXNZG will perform very well for you. The Zirconium ring is very tough.
Quote from: Newell Nut on July 15, 2016, 07:08:36 PM
The Alps XXNZG will perform very well for you. The Zirconium ring is very tough.
LOL, thanks Dwaigh for put me back into thinking about it again.
Chromed Perfection rod guides don't cost much and withstand a beating.
Quote from: SoCalAngler on July 16, 2016, 05:17:01 AM
Chromed Perfection rod guides don't cost much and withstand a beating.
As my 20+yo Seekers will attest.
if I continue reading I will never order the guides.
I just found another good budget option
PacBay DP HG guides, Hialoy ring, really like the stance of the guides and Hialoy is as good as Hardloy and cheap as chips.
$23.00 average with S&H from UTmost Ent.
desitions desitions !!
Hi Steelfish,
I see a little confusion in some of the Fuji codes that you are using. If you check out Angler's Resource web site, they have a good section on explanation of Fuji codes.
A small point. NLG guides are rapidly being discontinued, and pretty much only 'old stock' is available, and replacements will be very hard to find, should you need to replace a broken guide at any time in the future.
Look at NOG as possibly the cheapest option, a good workhorse type lined guide that will be around for many years to come. If you are looking perhaps for the next level up, then MNOG have the deep set frames, and go a long way to stopping the ceramic insert popping out.
The next levels after that are basically all the same frame, just changing the quality of the ceramic insert to Alconite or Silicone Carbine, or even Torzite. Which just about concludes the range of stainless steel framed guides. The next level up would be Titanium frames, but costs going through the roof.
I personally would stick with Fuji, as they are the most reliable product I have used in 30 years of rod building, and we have never had a problem with their product, and in all that time, the NLG series are perhaps the first meaningful discontinuance of a series.
Cheers from sunny Africa.
Jeri
Alex, I'm hucklongfin over on BloodyDecks Both my Acid wraps were done by my friend J.AkuHed who coined the term Acid wrap. They have the stripper guide offset a little to the left and it does make it easier to keep the line level on a fast wind.
thanks Jeri,
sorry for the confusion on the fuji guide codes, Im totally new on this matter, actually I dropped the NLG as option for the same reason you just said.
I read that ALPS and Pacbay are "just like" Okuma, they are bringing better quality products year after year compared to what they offered years ago, so I might give them a go over Fuji this time, specially considering this is my first job changing all the guides.
Quote from: MarkT on July 19, 2016, 06:00:03 PM
Alex, I'm hucklongfin over on BloodyDecks Both my Acid wraps were done by my friend J.AkuHed who coined the term Acid wrap. They have the stripper guide offset a little to the left and it does make it easier to keep the line level on a fast wind.
well that was odd, If I knew from the beginning I would have just called you Mark with more friendly tone LOL
but again, thanks for letting me know now, I will have this considered when I will be ready to work on the rod, I putting some notes on everytip Im finding, this is a whole new world for me know, dont want to go too deep into rod building and just build some minimalist and efective rods for my needs, I really like what Dwaight does on his rods, clean, simple and not overdone on the accesories and wrap thread patterns, not saying its a bad thing it just that I like simple things, less worry on scratchs or nicks on them with the Panga, which is not as fancy ride as the fishing sporty boats most guys use
Hi Steelfish,
I hear what you are saying about other guide companies, you just have to look at their products to see that basically they are all following where Fuji lead, you only have tp look at the number of times that Fuji have had to legally defend their patents.
We do look at alternatives to Fuji periodically, and when you check the specs and look at long term reliability - Fuji always win out, purely on quality of product. Admittedly they don't do all the fancy colours, but they offer pure technical performance.
If, I was building any casting rod, experience has taught me to stay away from the other products - Fuji only.
Cheers from sunnyAfrica,
Jeri
Quote from: Jeri on July 19, 2016, 03:24:59 AM
Hi Steelfish,
I see a little confusion in some of the Fuji codes that you are using. If you check out Angler's Resource web site, they have a good section on explanation of Fuji codes.
A small point. NLG guides are rapidly being discontinued, and pretty much only 'old stock' is available, and replacements will be very hard to find, should you need to replace a broken guide at any time in the future.
Look at NOG as possibly the cheapest option, a good workhorse type lined guide that will be around for many years to come. If you are looking perhaps for the next level up, then MNOG have the deep set frames, and go a long way to stopping the ceramic insert popping out.
The next levels after that are basically all the same frame, just changing the quality of the ceramic insert to Alconite or Silicone Carbine, or even Torzite. Which just about concludes the range of stainless steel framed guides. The next level up would be Titanium frames, but costs going through the roof.
I personally would stick with Fuji, as they are the most reliable product I have used in 30 years of rod building, and we have never had a problem with their product, and in all that time, the NLG series are perhaps the first meaningful discontinuance of a series.
Cheers from sunny Africa.
Jeri
NOT HAPPY Hardloy is going away; I have built majority of my rods with BNLG and BSVLG guides...
Quote from: thorhammer on July 21, 2016, 05:58:29 PM
NOT HAPPY Hardloy is going away; I have built majority of my rods with BNLG and BSVLG guides...
Have you tried the new BMNOG's yet? Jim at Fuji (Angler's Resource) told me Concept "O" was developed to be an improved version of the high grade aluminum oxide known as Hardloy, while also being its replacement; it did not make sense to have a regular Al Oxide guide, along with two higher grades.
The rodbuilding market can be confusing as vendors may describe Concept "O" as simply being aluminum oxide, leading some builders to infer that it is of a lesser grade than Hardloy--which it is not. It is, however, a high grade aluminum oxide and seems to work every bit as well for me as did Hardloy.
*Edit. That should have read BMNOG's, not BNOG'S.
Hi everyone,
I would have to disagree with 'char45', as there are some errors coming about from the misuse of various Fuji 'Concept' phrases. 'Concept O' and 'Improved O' are two different issues.
In 2013, introduced a new 'improved O' series insert, which was basically brought about due to a rationalisation of all the inserts that Fuji were making and developing at that time. Both the original 'O' and 'L' series were very similar in performance, equal hardness. The 'L' series were in certain situations slightly more prone to chipping or cracking, though were slightly lower in 'thermal conductivity' than the original 'O' series. The 'L' series were also grey in colour, rather than traditional dark colours going to near black – so a small aesthetic issue.
The result of the changes were the new 'improved O' series of inserts, with the total end of production of 'L' series inserts, as the new 'improved O' series had all the benefits of both 'L' and the original 'O' series.
In 2014, the next level of development came with 'Concept O', which at that time basically takes the year old new 'O' series inserts and builds them in the flanged frames that were universal in their Alconite 'A' or Silicone Carbide 'S' series of guides. The concept change was a development/improvement of the frames, not of the inserts. At the same time they introduced 3 variants of the 'Concept O' frames, light, medium and heavy, depending on your application and usage. This new 'Concept' therefore brought about a radical improvement in the overall strength and performance of the guides, because of the flanged or recessed frames.
By way of interest – Alconite or 'A' series inserts are best described as reinforced high grade aluminium oxide; which are slightly harder than 'O', and have slightly better thermal conductivity.
The whole point of all the various grades of ceramic insert is to balance out cost against performance, and in certain situations line speed and associated friction are the critical factors. The ability of the insert to cope with the friction are associated with the properties of the insert in hardness and thermal conductivity. The ability to take the ultimate smooth polish at a microscopic level, and then dissipate the heat of any friction that occurs at the line to insert interface.
Fishing in situations where line speed across the insert are going to be higher than 50 km per hour warrant a much higher grade of insert than below – hence the onward development of inserts to Silicone Carbide and more recently Torzite; situations like high speed casting or fishing for Sailfish or Wahoo and the like.
In conclusion, ordinary 'N' series frames, with 'improved O' series inserts are now the most economic rings in the Fuji range, but for a small increase in price the use of 'LN', MN' or 'HN' frames and 'improve O' inserts is to follow the 'Concept O' development.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
wow, excellent write up Jeri.
thanks for let us and put all things more clear about the fuji budget guides.