Please post your questions about the chronological history of this reel, or your reel, in this post.
I am missing something here. What is an 85 Delmar?
I think that the "2" went missing in "285" .
Oh, OK. ???
Quote from: Superhook on April 14, 2016, 01:10:53 AM
I think that the "2" went missing in "285" .
Nah, just me not knowing what I'm writing about... The similarities between the 85 and 285 made me think that they were in the same family (they are) with the same name (they are not) with a different number. I'll correct the heading. Thanks for pointing that out...
Sid
;D
I bought this Delmar 285 just to get the power handle. I never even knew it had mottled side plates 'til it arrived in the mail...eBay pic was notoriously poor...looked black as pitch! I yanked the power handle off, cleaned her up and lubed the internals, and added the correct handle. I bet Penn sold a blue million of these...that was one badass lookin' reel for their asking price! 8)
Stippled tail plate even. Love that red handle. Nice reel!
Basto
I have seen those handles sell for $30+ not long ago. Nice!
QuoteI bought this Delmar 285 just to get the power handle. I never even knew it had mottled side plates 'til it arrived in the mail...eBay pic was notoriously poor...looked black as pitch! I yanked the power handle off, cleaned her up and lubed the internals, and added the correct handle. I bet Penn sold a blue million of these...that was one badass lookin' reel for their asking price! Cool
This is the most enjoyable part of collecting. making a simple buy for a particular part and finding a treasure attached to that part. The red power handle is a great find; but, the mottled reel is the real treasure of the buy. The degree of mottling is what makes them more or less desirable. I suspect yours, presented properly in an online auction would bring a very good price.
I don't know how I'm ending up with these Delmars...I'm not even a big fan of the reel...but I had another unique one fall in my lap. I spent the day looking around for any like this one, couldn't find any info, but I'm sure I've seen these colored plates before. The metal parts on this reel are beyond "geuine character"...it's more like completely shot! :D I'm considering doing a frankenreel with these plates. Like a Delmar 286 type thing...widening with Longbeach 65 parts. 8)
QuoteI'm considering doing a frankenreel with these plates. Like a Delmar 286 type thing...widening with Longbeach 65 parts. Cool
You can easily do that; but, the end result is an easy reel to see as a modified, rather than true model. To have a true Model 286 Delmar, the number in the molded in logo must be 286.
Quote from: Penn Chronology on July 25, 2016, 06:26:10 AM
You can easily do that; but, the end result is an easy reel to see as a modified, rather than true model. To have a true Model 286 Delmar, the number in the molded in logo must be 286.
I was just doing the widening thing so my two Delmars would be different. I guess it all depends on how rare/collectible the multi-colored plates are. Do you think these plates are too unique to "hot rod"?
Quote from: Penn Chronology on July 25, 2016, 06:26:10 AM
QuoteI'm considering doing a frankenreel with these plates. Like a Delmar 286 type thing...widening with Longbeach 65 parts. Cool
You can easily do that; but, the end result is an easy reel to see as a modified, rather than true model. To have a true Model 286 Delmar, the number in the molded in logo must be 286.
[/quote
This brings to mind a 501 I bought that had a 500 head plate on it. The number on the plate was not shown on the photos in the advert. I was very disappointed.
Bsto
QuoteI was just doing the widening thing so my two Delmars would be different. I guess it all depends on how rare/collectible the multi-colored plates are. Do you think these plates are too unique to "hot rod"?
Making it wider is no problem, you could always bring it back. I would save the old parts and play with the plates.
Quote from: Penn Chronology on July 26, 2016, 04:48:15 AM
Making it wider is no problem, you could always bring it back. I would save the old parts and play with the plates.
Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking, the modifications I'm considering can be reversed with a simple screwdriver! :D I held a stainless Longbeach 65 spool beside this reel and little wheels in my dome started turning. :D
QuoteI held a stainless Longbeach 65 spool beside this reel and little wheels in my dome started turning. Cheesy
That is when you have to be really careful. When those wheels start turning! ;D
Just an odd observation, I've been looking for a tail plate to replace a broken one, and all I can find on the auction site is head plates and complete reels and other reels with broken tail plates. I can buy a complete reel and use it for parts, but that still leaves me with a broken tail plate. Are the tail plates fragile on the 285, or are they just getting hard to find? Bill
Quote from: TARFU on September 17, 2016, 05:15:49 PM
Just an odd observation, I've been looking for a tail plate to replace a broken one, and all I can find on the auction site is head plates and complete reels and other reels with broken tail plates. I can buy a complete reel and use it for parts, but that still leaves me with a broken tail plate. Are the tail plates fragile on the 285, or are they just getting hard to find? Bill
PM your address and I'll send you one, I have several sitting here. Let me know if it is smooth or textured sideplate.
Ted
Thank you so much Ted, I really owe you guys a lot.....I have some serious "paying it forward" to do, you guys Dom, Darren, Fred, Alan, and I'm sorry if I missed anyone, have been more than generous!!!! Bill
Quote from: TARFU on September 17, 2016, 06:45:02 PM
Thank you so much Ted, I really owe you guys a lot.....I have some serious "paying it forward" to do, you guys Dom, Darren, Fred, Alan, and I'm sorry if I missed anyone, have been more than generous!!!! Bill
If you did miss some, don't sweat it Bill, most don't do it for recognition. It's just the way it is over here. ;)
Sal
QuoteAre the tail plates fragile on the 285, or are they just getting hard to find? Bill
I feel tail plates are always more susceptible to damage than a head plate. When you drop a reel, if the head plate is down, there are parts that may break the fall. The handle will deflect part of the forces. Not so when the tail plate is down. The first thing that hits is the corner of the plate. Handles bend, Bakelite tail plates break............<:O(
See it all the time.
Mike, aren't the head plates also a tad thicker, and therefore stronger, too? They sure look that way to me.
Sid
QuoteMike, aren't the head plates also a tad thicker, and therefore stronger, too? They sure look that way to me.
Sure. There are probably a few models that do not fall into this norm; but, I would say that would be a "Rule of Thumb".
Here is my garden variety 285, made a little bit special by the generosity of Ted....this is my first reel in this class, 285, LB 60 etc, has steel main and pinion and still smooth after all these years....now I see why they are so popular.....oh yeah Sal if you look in the back ground the 113 with your donation is live and looking good too.....Thanks guys, You're All Cool beans in my book ;D Bill
(http://i.imgur.com/2NoZdHw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FrQKCHa.jpg)
Looking good Bill. Be careful, they will easily multiply on you. :)
I needed a bridge for a Long Beach I was working on. Scott's info indicated the 285 used a #3-66 bridge, same as a Long Beach. I had an old 285 in the donor box so I opened her up to extract that bridge. When I got the bridge out, I noticed it was numbered #3-85! Well...I scratched my head...thought a bit...and surmised that if this #3-85 bridge fit the Delmar maybe it would fit the Long Beach too...and it did! All functions work fine.
Now...my question: Did the 285 Delmar really use a #3-66 bridge or did it use the #3-85 like the one I opened? Also are the #3-85 and #3-66 bridges interchangeable? They sure seem to be as far as my Long Beach is concerned! :-\
On early models, the Delmar has a tad shorter gear sleeve. Not sure about later models
Quote from: mo65 on January 27, 2017, 03:46:45 PM
I needed a bridge for a Long Beach I was working on. Scott's info indicated the 285 used a #3-66 bridge, same as a Long Beach. I had an old 285 in the donor box so I opened her up to extract that bridge. When I got the bridge out, I noticed it was numbered #3-85! Well...I scratched my head...thought a bit...and surmised that if this #3-85 bridge fit the Delmar maybe it would fit the Long Beach too...and it did! All functions work fine.
Now...my question: Did the 285 Delmar really use a #3-66 bridge or did it use the #3-85 like the one I opened? Also are the #3-85 and #3-66 bridges interchangeable? They sure seem to be as far as my Long Beach is concerned! Undecided
Posted
]
They are all the same except they are different..........
Rule of thumb----If the screws go in smooth and easy and the bridge shaft is well centered in the plate, then it fits. The different part numbers may be because of when the parts were made, or possibly different alloys were used, even though the part works. I believe that there are probably cases where different part numbers are on identical parts. I guess over a span of 80 years, duplicate numbering is inevitable on some parts.
Penns can be rebuilt just as they were back in the day. It just requires a good donor reel....or 2 :D :D
-Ted
Brother that's well done. My favorite stock grip too.
Very Nice Ted.
I love it when a plan comes together. ;)
I'm still looking for a Star for a 612B True Temper/Ocean City.
I haven't given up hope.
That reel is Bangin'!
Nice, I like those marbled plates and look for them, too.
Ted, that tailplate is beyond repair (unless it was a collectible, it could have been repaired but it would've been more work than it was worth), but I probably could have repaired the chip in the headplate for you relatively easily.... if you weren't worried about matching color too much.... and I know you were, so just file this away for the future...
Sid
So it was you who bought those hippie tie~dye Delmars? Hee hee...I should have known. I saw both of them listed, I keep tabs on these since I have one. Definitely one of my favorite Penns. I often wonder why Penn didn't put multi color plates on more models. She looks fantastic Ted! 8)
Sometimes shipping($12) costs more than the reel($10), but this 285 looks to be 100% correct pre war era, so I figured it was worth the $22.....plus I love that leather thumb drag assist, hex clicker button, wood knob, and the 300yds stamped under the seat......all of which are era correct
Ted
Nice find !
Quote from: Maxed Out on December 15, 2017, 07:16:41 PM
I love that leather thumb drag assist, hex clicker button, wood knob, and the 300yds. stamped under the seat.
This is either another one of Ted's trick posts...or that's a 286. The 285 is a 250yd. reel, same as the LB 60. 8)
QuoteThis is either another one of Ted's trick posts...or that's a 286. The 285 is a 250yd. reel, same as the LB 60. Cool
Yup, this is a tricky post. A 300 yard Delmar is a 286, not a 285. Or is it???
Logo says 285 and I'm 99% certain this is how it left the factory as a 300yd 285
That's a 286 with a 285 head plate. I have one like that also.
$22 Score!!!!!
Nice find Ted,
Dom
Did the older Long Beach 65's have a 300-YD stamp on the foot? I don't think I've ever seen one, but it seems they should exist.... if so, couldn't anyone make a 286 with 285 plates? Am I missing something here? Wouldn't the stock LB 65 be of greater value?
Sid
Sid,
Yes the early 65 LB's were stamped 300 YDS. on the stand, but I'm not sure they would be interchangeable as the LB has inner rings and the delmar is ring-less not to mention if the whole pattern matches up.
Yes, to your last question... typically an LB fetches more money than a delmar for many reasons unless it's a special delmar like a 286 or colored delmar, etc.
As with most Penn reels we can make a bunch of different reels with the same parts, but each reel often has its little tell tales for the most part. That's why using period correct parts aren't enough when restoring these reels. If I used a pre-war delmar non handle side bushing cup on a pre-war Long Beach it would fit and operate properly, but they are not the same when looking closely, as you know. The shape, knurling, finish, size, etc. may be a hair different so to me it wouldn't be considered factory/era correct. We also know Penn used up there parts so what I just said really goes out the window, so who the heck really knows. Lots of variables! Ted may be a whiz with Penn's interchangeable parts, but his magic wasn't put on this one or any of his pre-war reels for that matter.
Dom
Quote from: sdlehr on December 17, 2017, 01:41:16 AM
Did the older Long Beach 65's have a 300-YD stamp on the foot? I don't think I've ever seen one, but it seems they should exist.... if so, couldn't anyone make a 286 with 285 plates? Am I missing something here? Wouldn't the stock LB 65 be of greater value?
Sid
Good question Sid.....here is my short answer ;D ;D....yes to all the above, BUT the 286 sports a plastic 65 spool..... where are you gonna find a 65 plastic spool that was only made for less than a year ?? You'd have to sacrifice a long beach 65LS which is ultra rare. Either way, try to build a pre war 286 out of a 285 would not be easy if you had all the correct components, a few of which are rare as hens teeth....and as Dom pointed out it is nearly impossible to match patina and plating when you start swapping parts to try and build a 1941 reel from several donors, and to build a nice reel you need nice donors, and it would be a sin to use nice condition pre war reels for donors.
....oh and I sold my last 286 for around $150, so it's doubtful a lb65 from same era would fetch same amount as a 286
Ted
Quote from: broadway on December 17, 2017, 04:41:41 AM
Sid,
Yes the early 65 LB's were stamped 300 YDS. on the stand, but I'm not sure they would be interchangeable as the LB has inner rings and the delmar is ring-less not to mention if the whole pattern matches up.
If the posts and spools are interchangeable (they are) then the stands are also the same width. One can use LB posts on a Delmar and vice versa. I believe the hole patterns are also the same, but I'm not home to be able to prove it. I'm quite sure the LB and Delmar plates have the same hole pattern, in fact, many of Penn's reels have that exact same hole pattern - all the LB look-alikes do. The #15 and #80 also have the same hole pattern, as well as others. I think Penn saved on tooling making so many things of the same dimensions between different reels - only one jig was needed to bend a whole bunch of different model stands, for instance. They used the same jigs to drill holes in different model's rings and plates. The Delmar plates must be built up with more Bakelite the same amount as the LB plates are with the trim rings so the posts and stands are interchangeable.
Based on this, I would say that it would be pretty easy to take an early LB65 and put a 285 head plate on it (and tail plate as well) and call it a 286 with a 285 head plate. That doesn't make it a 286, nor does it make it as valuable as a 286... and that also doesn't mean Ted's reel didn't leave the factory as we see it above.... Penn made the rules as they went along, as you mentioned.
Sid, where are you going to get the PLASTIC 65 spool ??
Do you have some secret stash from 1941 we don't know about ?? :D
Which LB65's had plastic spools? Would it have LS on the side plate? Do they have a yardage stamp on the foot? Just curious I have a few with plastic spools, is it just 1941 LB65's
Quote from: Maxed Out on December 17, 2017, 06:26:48 AM
Sid, where are you going to get the PLASTIC 65 spool ??
Do you have some secret stash from 1941 we don't know about ?? :D
No, I don't, I overlooked the spool. Otherwise the transition from LB to Delmar would be pretty straightforward. I have a 286 at home with a real 286 head plate and now I'm wondering what spool is on it. I'll check when I get back home. Thanks for pointing out the fallacy in my argument.
Question, Ted you stated "BUT the 286 sports a plastic 65 spool....." can you shed a little light how you determine it is a 65 spool..... I seems to me pre-war reels do not have part numbers, so does the shape of the spool tell us it's a 65LB spool? Thank you for any input....Bill
Bill,
There was a 65 that was made for one year that possessed a plastic spool which is an exact match for the plastic 300 yd Delmar 286 spool. It doesn't have any numbers on it as it was made prior to putting numbers on all their parts. You would pretty much have to measure or just give it a try if you did;t actually pull it off a 65LS. There is another reel's spool that will fit and thats' a Sea Gate 126, 300 yd'er. Ted is right when he says that removing a 65LS spool to put on a Delmar would be insane, unless of course, the spool was the only decent part on that 65LS.
Good to know 65 posts fit 286 Delmars.
Dom
....ok, I see I have created a bit of confusion.......let me clarify a couple things....
...we know the lb60 & 65 switched to plastic spools just prior to the war. This is the same time frame when the 286 appeared for very short time. The lb60 & 65 continued with plastic spools in '46,47, and 48....BUT those plastic spools were redesigned after the war. A correct 286 delmar would have the pre war version of the 65 plastic spool. That's what I meant by declaring the correct spool for a 286 is rare as hens teeth cause the only other reel it came on was a pre war long beach 65LS.....a rare reel by itself
Here you'll see a pre war 60 spool compared to the post war 60, and 65 comparison as well. Notice the ribbon that is where the arbor meets the flanges at point of the knife. That went away after the war for a more rounded transition from arbor to flanges
Thank you, that clears things up. Just checked my 286 and sure enough it has the ribbon at the arbor flange joint......Bill
Quote....ok, I see I have created a bit of confusion.......let me clarify a couple things....
...we know the lb60 & 65 switched to plastic spools just prior to the war. This is the same time frame when the 286 appeared for very short time. The lb60 & 65 continued with plastic spools in '46,47, and 48....BUT those plastic spools were redesigned after the war. A correct 286 delmar would have the pre war version of the 65 plastic spool. That's what I meant by declaring the correct spool for a 286 is rare as hens teeth cause the only other reel it came on was a pre war long beach 65LS.....a rare reel by itself
Here you'll see a pre war 60 spool compared to the post war 60, and 65 comparison as well. Notice the ribbon that is where the arbor meets the flanges at point of the knife. That went away after the war for a more rounded transition from arbor to flanges
Excellent point of information! Ted is 100% correct. I have a 65L.S. & a 286 Delmar. They both have the correct spool with the bump where the flange meets to arbor. Of course mine are not nearly as shinny as Ted's!........<:O)
QuoteThere is another reel's spool that will fit and thats' a Sea Gate 126, 300 yd'er. Ted is right when he says that removing a 65LS spool to put on a Delmar would be insane, unless of course, the spool was the only decent part on that 65LS... the same would go for the Sea Gate 126.
Dom, that exchange is not true. The Sea Gate 126 was only made in 1939 and had a metal spool (a relatively rare reel). After that the Sea Gate 125 stood alone with a smaller plastic spool that would not work on a LB 65 or Delmar 286. This fact makes that 65L.S. / 286 spool a bit more elusive.............<:O) Here is the only true Sea Gate 126 I have ever found and the damn thing is the wrong color.................<:O(
I'm still blown away at how much you guys know about these finite details. Flippin' awesome.
Thanks for that tid bit, Mike. I bought a 300 yd Sea Gate last year with a plastic spool with the "ribbons" on the flanges so I assumed that's how they came from Penn. Especially, due to the fact that the Sea Gate 125 was exclusively a plastic spooled reel. Thanks for the correction. That's an easy fix with an LB 65 spool, and now I will have my 2nd factory correct Delmar 286's spool that I needed to replace due to spreading.
This was a very helpful exchange,
Dom
PS- I struck my comment above and left it so people can see what we're talking about, but to let them know it's incorrect.
QuoteThanks for that tid bit, Mike. I bought a 300 yd Sea Gate last year with a plastic spool with the "ribbons" on the flanges so I assumed that's how they came from Penn. Especially, due to the fact that the Sea Gate 125 was exclusively a plastic spooled reel. Thanks for the correction. That's an easy fix with an LB 65 spool, and now I will have my 2nd factory correct Delmar 286's spool that I needed to replace due to spreading.
This was a very helpful exchange,
Dom
PS- I struck my comment above and left it so people can see what we're talking about, but to let them know it's incorrect.
These kind of facts get discovered by discussion. It is not easy to get all the little things documented. The plastic spool specifics are not documented anywhere. We can thank Ted, for that learning experience. The Sea Gate fact is documented in the catalog. Always glad when little things get removed from the "Hearsay History" category.
Is it the spool alone that differentiates a 125 from a 126? They do not have a number embossed in the head plate. Sorry, this drifting away from the Delmar.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on December 19, 2017, 07:43:55 AM
Is it the spool alone that differentiates a 125 from a 126? They do not have a number embossed in the head plate. Sorry, this drifting away from the Delmar.
Let's see if I can describe this in a manner that eliminates confusion.
The Delmar 285 and Seagate 125 are the same width as a LB60.
The Delmar 286 and Seagate 126 are the same width as a LB65.
The lowly Delmar has probably never received this much attention, it's kinda fun! 8)
Steve, Sea Gate 125- plastic spool and 250 yd reel. no numbers on the head plate.
Sea Gate 126- metal spool and 300 yd reel. no numbers on the head plate.- Much harder find!
Dom
QuoteSteve, Sea Gate 125- plastic spool and 250 yd reel. no numbers on the head plate.
Sea Gate 126- metal spool and 300 yd reel. no numbers on the head plate.- Much harder find!
Dom
Dom is 100% correct. The yardage numbers for the Sea Gate is on the bottom of the stand. Head and Tail plates are the same for both models.
The concept for the existence of the Sea Gate is lowering cost for a full featured reel in the same category as the Long Beach. Many Party (Head) Boats used Sea Gates for their rental reels. Since most Party Boats buy in quantity, the slightly reduced costs mattered to them. Sea Gates were also built different sometimes, using colored plates and hex shaped clicker buttons. I find the variant models interesting, especially the Model 126--300 yard reel.
Just want to make sure Im not loosing mind mind, but this 85 does not belong in the 285 box ???
(https://i.imgur.com/ud7LvwD.jpg)
I have no idea Bill, but there is this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX3g7YKHCqo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX3g7YKHCqo)
-steve
QuoteJust want to make sure Im not loosing mind mind, but this 85 does not belong in the 285 box Huh?
If you found an 85 in a 285 box, you either have the wrong reel in the right box or the right reel in the wrong box.
OK, so I haven't lost too many brain cells. Good thing I have a 285 on the shlf to go with the box and i won't feel bad salvaging the spool for an early 111 Senator.....Thanks guys. Bill
Well, it's a 85, not a 285, but this one looks very similar to reels posted by Mo early in this thread
She's a beauty Ted! Got any more photos?
Hi Mike, here is a shot of the tailplate
Fantastic find Ted! I've always wondered why these beautifully colored side plates were only relegated to 85s and 185s. Why didn't they turn out a few mottled Mariners or Senators? Can you imagine a 16/0 with this coloring?? :al
That's a beauty Ted
That's awesome Ted! Out of all the cool, rare, and collectible Penn's out there, the mottled and multicolored ones were always my favorite! I don't know what it is about them, but they are just so cool! 8)
Quote from: mo65 on January 26, 2023, 01:38:49 PMWhy didn't they turn out a few mottled Mariners or Senators? Can you imagine a 16/0 with this coloring?? :al
I've wondered about that, too. Also, why stop? This would have been a defining characteristic.
I don't know about making bakelite, but maybe achieving these colorations required more attention and cost.
Anyway, I'm glad to see survivors. A 16/0 with plates like that would suck the air out of a room!
Wow Ted, that is COOL :d
Here is the rest of the head plate, and the inside of the tailplate.
How in the world do you guys find those things??? Haha! :al
Thats a stunner Ted!!
Man I had an opportunity to grt one of these when it popped up locally some time back. But the pic wasnt clear, and I mistook it for being really grimy. Don't I feel smart now.
Beautiful reel Ted !!! Really vivid colors. What a great find. John Taylor