Hi all,
Just thought Id share an upgrade I did to one of my Daiwa BG spinning reels.
I really like the reels, and for the $$$, they are a great reel. Alan Hawke, Tackle Advisors , and our very own johndtuttle have done take-downs and reviews, so there is plenty of info out there. The upgrade is simple, and in the end you have a bearing supporting the spool shaft, just forward of the rotor retaining nut.
It is my understanding that this will help prevent shaft flex, under load, so as not to affect the pinion. I did one reel,and it was easy. i need to come up with a test before I do the other, so I can try some before and after pulls ;D
here it is,,
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_4_59_12.jpeg)
First remove spool, drag clicker and various washers, and your left with the rotor nut retention plate, held in by three screws
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_5_04_01.jpeg)
This is what you'll see after you remove the plate. Note the groove where I'm pointing with the pick, this needs to be cleeaned of old grease to accept on o-ring
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_5_07_33.jpeg)
Here is the kit,...retainer, sealed bearing, and o-ring
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_5_06_24.jpeg)
So, you need to now put that o-ring in the groove. I had a little difficulty making it stay put so I used a little Super Lube on it to help hold it in place.Then I put grease in the bearing retainer and pushed in bearing
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_5_08_56.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_5_09_26.jpeg)
Please take note of how the nut retainer has points that line up with the three screw holes. your rotor nut needs to be adjusted so the "points" of the nut are aligned with the holes in the reel body,or at least that's how I did it. Now just screw it on, being careful to not move o-ring.....a few shots of finished verses stock
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_5_10_02.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_5_10_34.jpeg)
This kit is designed for the 4500, and 5000 BG"s, which happened to be the two I had. To me it makes sense, and should be of benefit, your thoughts welcomed.
BTW...the reels share the same body, spools are different....I need to shim the line lay on the 5000 before i go further on it, and devise an appropriate way to test it ???
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_5_11_23.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_5_12_01.jpeg)
And, yes, I know these are not the original Daiwa BG's, and for many here there is probably only one black and gold reel ;D(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_5_13_26.jpeg)
(that was for Sal ;D)
Hope this helps. I ordered my kit from Amazon ,but have come to find out that the creator of this kit is actually a new Ohana member.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/17022_13_10_18_5_04_42.jpeg)
I'm putting this at the bottom so if it needs to be modified it can be...Although the boss already said it was okay.....
Ohana members name is Andrew, his site name is bobleflounder...
Brett
seen this on stripers.. ;)
Thanks glos....I'll have to check that out....did they put it to the test?
Brett
Very cool Brett, with some nice detailed pics...good job!
Sal
If it turns out to be a great thing I hope they'll make one to fit a BG3000.
Thanks for the walk through, great upgrade!
Nice Brett!
Update to original post....it was on Amazon.
Sorry
Brett
I love the new BG.
I mainly have 8000 models, but I do have a 5.
I will look into this upgrade.
Quote from: bhale1 on October 14, 2018, 04:43:43 PM
Thanks glos....I'll have to check that out....did they put it to the test?
Brett
not sure, but they talked about it ( or something like hat ) and shown some pics, also posted some amazon links to the product.
Looks like onea the best spinning reel upgrades I've seen to date. Does it feel smoother when you reel it? Gotta see the "load test" results when you do 'em.
brilliant, but kit should have spare O-rings...
better yet, sell the stuff separately & offer some options:
let the peepuls decide whether they want sealed/shielded/open or plain brass bush
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you guys think the mod is useful. Like I said before, I am mostly doing this to get the manufacturers attention to consider putting higher-end features that don't cost that much money to add, like a floating shaft, into their cheaper reels. I haven't been doing anything to try to get their attention lately as I've been really busy with school and finishing a fly reel design. The spinfisher 6/slammer 3 looks like it can accept a similar mod so once I finish up the 8000 version I will try to cover the Penns.
philaroman, I wish I could offer more options, but I don't sell enough/have enough time to stock all the different combinations, but I will be sure to include an extra O ring in the next ones I send out.
Gfish, It doesn't feel smoother when you reel it under no pressure but under load, the difference is pretty dramatic. If I ever get time I will try to put out a video.
bhale, if you want to test it out remove the spool and tie on a piece of 50lb mono to the end of the main shaft and get a friend to pull down while you try to crank in, and compare with and without the mod. I would definitely not do it on a rod, at least indoors. I did that and it did not go well....
Glos, yeah I posted a thread about it on SOL and it got taken down for a bit because of the commercial links but I worked it out with Tim and it is up again. If it is against the rule to mention commerical links/other forums here I would be happy to work out a deal with Alan for this site. I am making about $2-3 (depending on how large of a batch I make) per part because this is more of a fun project to me, and imo, the more people who know what can be done with cheaper reels, the merrier
Andrew, I'm sure Alan will get in touch with you when he returns from his fishing trip. I'm looking forward to your upgrade for the BG8000. I already ordered one for my BG4500. Rudy
I dont think the new Slammer III needs any modification.
Alan Hawk doesn't rate this reel, but It looks pretty stout to me.
A 4500 has 30lbs of drag. :o
Will this upgrade seal the gap that can allow water into the pinion assembly as mentioned by John Tuttle in his take-down post?
I was also wondering ---does this mean that without the upgrade the floating shaft is an inherent weakness in the Daiwa BGs? In any event it looks like good insurance and I hope you'll also make it to fit some of the smaller BGs.
Quote from: handi2 on October 17, 2018, 09:23:33 PM
I dont think the new Slammer III needs any modification.
I thought it didn't have a floating shaft, at least from the schematics I've seen. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong size?
Quote from: wfjord on October 18, 2018, 04:01:48 PM
Will this upgrade seal the gap that can allow water into the pinion assembly as mentioned by John Tuttle in his take-down post?
I was also wondering ---does this mean that without the upgrade the floating shaft is an inherent weakness in the Daiwa BGs? In any event it looks like good insurance and I hope you'll also make it to fit some of the smaller BGs.
No, that is under the rotor and to fix that it would require more modification than its worth. If you try to use an oring in between the underside and the rotor it results in too much resistance which negates the benefits of a floating shaft. I haven't tried using a quad seal there yet though.
Hi bobleflounder
This upgrade is a must have for me as i saltwater abuse my 2 x 5000 BGs
My problem is Amazon will not ship to Australia am i able to purchase direct from you
Regards
Mick
Quote from: bobleflounder on October 17, 2018, 02:34:45 AM
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you guys think the mod is useful. Like I said before, I am mostly doing this to get the manufacturers attention to consider putting higher-end features that don't cost that much money to add, like a floating shaft, into their cheaper reels. I haven't been doing anything to try to get their attention lately as I've been really busy with school and finishing a fly reel design. The spinfisher 6/slammer 3 looks like it can accept a similar mod so once I finish up the 8000 version I will try to cover the Penns.
philaroman, I wish I could offer more options, but I don't sell enough/have enough time to stock all the different combinations, but I will be sure to include an extra O ring in the next ones I send out.
Gfish, It doesn't feel smoother when you reel it under no pressure but under load, the difference is pretty dramatic. If I ever get time I will try to put out a video.
bhale, if you want to test it out remove the spool and tie on a piece of 50lb mono to the end of the main shaft and get a friend to pull down while you try to crank in, and compare with and without the mod. I would definitely not do it on a rod, at least indoors. I did that and it did not go well....
Glos, yeah I posted a thread about it on SOL and it got taken down for a bit because of the commercial links but I worked it out with Tim and it is up again. If it is against the rule to mention commerical links/other forums here I would be happy to work out a deal with Alan for this site. I am making about $2-3 (depending on how large of a batch I make) per part because this is more of a fun project to me, and imo, the more people who know what can be done with cheaper reels, the merrier
Any chance of doing this mod on a 4000 sized reel?
Thanks,
Jay
That is definitely having your thinking cap on! Great idea. I sometimes have these great ideas also. Only mine usually don't work out in real life. ;) Give yourself a pat on the back and if you come up with something like this for the Slammer 3 and Spinfisher vi I would definitely be interested in trying one out!
Hi bobleflounder
I would also like to purchase this Mod for my BG 5000.
Also my problem is Amazon will not ship to Australia am i able to purchase direct from you
Regards
Dave Bentley
Quote from: mickm56 on February 15, 2019, 06:24:32 AM
Hi bobleflounder
This upgrade is a must have for me as i saltwater abuse my 2 x 5000 BGs
My problem is Amazon will not ship to Australia am i able to purchase direct from you
Regards
Mick
Hi Mick,
Did you get a response to your request.
Dave Bentley
Hi Dave
No i havent received any response
Mick
Hi Bobleflounder,
wondering when I can expect a response to my request.
Just need to know if you can post it to me in an envelope if I pay you via direct deposit or paypal.
Thanks Dave Bentley
Quote from: Dave Bentley on February 16, 2019, 08:49:52 AM
Hi bobleflounder
I would also like to purchase this Mod for my BG 5000.
Also my problem is Amazon will not ship to Australia am i able to purchase direct from you
Regards
Dave Bentley
Hi, Are these kits still available and can I get one shipped to Australia.
From his profile:
Name: bobleflounder
Posts: 4 (0.009 per day)
Position: Member
Date Registered: May 19, 2018, 02:58:33 PM
Last Active: April 07, 2019, 07:41:30 AM
-steve
Dave, and Mick
check your PM inbox
Brett
mickm56,
Have you checked your message inbox?
Brett
Hey Mick
Hey Mate, just may have a kit available😁....but don't know if you know how to respond to messages? If not just let me know here....
Gooday mate...
Brett
any sources for this upgrade?
Can't find it on Amazon US.
just reached out to bob and am hoping they're still offering these for sale somewhere since they're no longer on Amazon.
Otherwise, I have a friend who could CNC a bunch of these if the CAD file is available.
If it works-out, I'm in. BG-5000.
Any of you folk have data from testing this, before and/or after?
The extra support of the main shaft on this customization is coming from transferring load from the main shaft to the pinion via the the rotor. If flex in the main shaft is binding the one way bearing or causing spool scraping on the rotor, then this type of change might help. But if pinion alignment is the weakest link... not so sure.
There should already be some main shaft support nearby from the pinion, or is there a generous clearance between the pinion and the main shaft?
I am personally a bit more comfortable on an upgrade when we can demonstrate some sort of improvement during operation. Removing the spool and testing shaft flex is not the best test.
If we can confirm a useful fix, and the original producer has moved on, it would not be to hard to do something along the same lines, maybe better. The part itself is just 3D printed.
-J
Short version:
This upgrade sort of replicates the feature available on the Saltiga that minimizes extra winding-under-load resistance caused by rubbing of the flexing shaft on the pinion hole. But the upgrade is missing a friction reducing sleeve, so some, or maybe even more resistance is introduced by the flexing shaft sliding along the new bearing race. Secondly, the gear train and anti-reverse in the BG may not be strong enough to be able to wind under loads where shaft flexing is enough of an issue.
I think that this one really should be tested a bit before we get too excited about it.
Long version:
This one bothered me a bit, so I just wasted an hour of my life looking at the Alan Hawk breakdowns and ruminating. I think I understand better now.
Here are some links to photos from Alan Hawk's site. First the BG pinion support:
(https://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/bg16/60.JPG)
Next, the bearing/rotor nut combo and plastic sleeve on the Saltiga
(https://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/sltg10/21.jpg)
Both the BG and the Saltiga have the pinion fully supported via ball bearings nesting in the main body. So the pinion is well supported in both reels.
The Saltiga has an additional ball bearing inside of the rotor nut to help prevent any flexing on the shaft from rubbing the wall of the pinion hole. Inside of that bearing is a plastic bushing/sleeve to allow the shaft to slide back and forth without rubbing on the inner bearing race. The BG does not have the bearing and sleeve. So the potential upgrade in this this thread is a similar approach, with a bearing but without the plastic sleeve.
The Saltiga has an aluminum bronze main and a stainless pinion, while the BG has zinc and brass, plus the one way bearing in the BG is muss less substantial, so you are not going to want to wind under as much load on the BG.
A small amount of extra friction when winding under load may not be ideal, but also may not be that noticeable, as you are already winding against load.
Daiwa must not have been expecting THAT much flexing load on the Saltiga shaft, as that plastic (probably nylon) bushing would have deformed from any significant load. So we are probably protecting against some rubbing, and not outright binding. Plus if there was that much rubbing against the sleeve, we would be reintroducing friction when winding, sort of negating the point of the feature.
In order for this BG upgrade to be beneficial, the reel would need to be able to support enough winding load that the spool shaft flex would be substantial, but at the same time this flex would not introduce significant new resistance as the flexing shaft rubs against the new bearing race as it oscillates.
If I am right, that would put this feature in more in the ease-of-use category, and not an upgrade that strengthens the reel. It still might be a useful feature if it makes winding the reel noticeably smoother or less effort when winding against the same load.
The main test for this upgrade would be winding against the same heavy load, before and after customization. If you can't feel much of a difference with the customization, it is not helping much.
Not saying that this customization might not end up being an improvement, just that it is not a slam dunk case.
Or at least, that is how I see it.
-J