Folks,
Thinking about getting a 100# bait rig and would appreciate opinions and advice. The setup would probably also see limited use with a heavy flat fall or similar artificial.
I discovered Alan's post (below) from heavy searching. He's using the UC VIPER with Mak 20. This is surely a great setup but don't know if this was before or after he had a chance to look at the Penn VISX reels.
What are some pro's/con's of the 7'0 vs 7'6 VIPER? I can't recall all the details, but I remember reading post saying one of the models were totally different between 7'0 and 7'6 versions. Think it was the Predator or Raptor.
Also, size 16 or 20 if going with the VISX instead of the Mak?
Thanks!
Quote from: alantani on November 21, 2017, 05:05:56 PM
my personal reel/rod set ups are as follows:
30# bait - penn torque 15 two speed and phenix black diamond hybrid 838mh
40# bait - penn torque 25N two speed and phenix black diamond hybrid 760H
50# bait - penn torque 30 two speed and phenix black diamond hybrid 700xh
60# jig - penn torque 40N and phenix black diamond hybrid 869xh cut down to 8 feet
60# bait - penn 12 vsx and united composites raptor
80# bait - makaira 16 and united composites centaur
100# bait - makaira 20 and united composites viper
130# bait - makaira 50 and united composites invictus
you didn't mention rods, but they are 50% of the equation, both in terms of performance and price. as a general rule, i would expect to spend as much on the rod as the reel. yes, these rod/reel combos average $1000 each. still, matching a new reel with an old school rod would be, well, less than optimal. good luck! alan
I have the Mak 20 SEa on the Viper 76 for 100# and the Mak 16 SEa for 80#.
The VISX are getting good reviews too and I don't think you can go wrong with either the Mak or the VISX. The VISX are a little lighter and some like the higher gear ratios.
there's an 8 foot viper out there now, right? don't be afraid of the extra length. i think it's the 30 visx that is the same size as the mak 20. either one of those would be fine!
There's now an 8' Raptor but not a Viper... so far. I'd go with the 7'6" Viper. It has a lighter tip yet more power than the 7'er. Just lay it on the rail and turn the handle, hey, it works for me!
Quote from: MarkT on June 24, 2018, 10:49:52 PM
hey, it works for me!
oh, yeah, i was there!!!!
Quote from: alantani on June 24, 2018, 10:59:58 PM
Quote from: MarkT on June 24, 2018, 10:49:52 PM
hey, it works for me!
oh, yeah, i was there!!!!
So was I. I would normally have said "me too" but that might not be PC anymore.
Peaches
Quote from: Wally15 on June 25, 2018, 10:16:54 AM
Quote from: alantani on June 24, 2018, 10:59:58 PM
Quote from: MarkT on June 24, 2018, 10:49:52 PM
hey, it works for me!
oh, yeah, i was there!!!!
So was I. I would normally have said "me too" but that might not be PC anymore.
Peaches
Peaches might not be PC anymore either Honey! ;D ;D ;D
Ditto
Thanks for the input, gentlemen. The VIPER76 looks to be the pick. As for the reel, it still looks like a toss-up.
Am I correct the Mak 20 uses a thrust bearing, while the VISX 30 does not? Is the absence of this feature even noticeable? Surprising as the Torque 2spds have em.
you'll do fine with either reel!
Quote from: swill88 on June 25, 2018, 02:17:00 PM
Quote from: Wally15 on June 25, 2018, 10:16:54 AM
Quote from: alantani on June 24, 2018, 10:59:58 PM
Quote from: MarkT on June 24, 2018, 10:49:52 PM
hey, it works for me!
oh, yeah, i was there!!!!
So was I. I would normally have said "me too" but that might not be PC anymore.
Peaches
Peaches might not be PC anymore either Honey! ;D ;D ;D
I resemble that remark ;D
100 degree Peaches (it's not the heat, it's the humanity)
Quote from: alantani on June 25, 2018, 05:23:15 PM
you'll do fine with either reel!
Just ordered a Viper76. Thanks for the input!
Is the size of the Mak20 in between the Penn 20 and 30? What specs should I be looking at to get a better sense of size? Had the same problem when buying my TRQ25N and 40N.
The Mak 20 if I remember correctly from the very few I've held one is closer to to Penn's 30 in size. I believe someone here has stated this also... Jeff
Ok thanks, Jeff!
Edit: Ordered the VISX30 - a deal I couldn't refuse made the decision easy. :o
Quote from: pitchinwedge on June 25, 2018, 05:08:37 PM
Thanks for the input, gentlemen. The VIPER76 looks to be the pick. As for the reel, it still looks like a toss-up.
Am I correct the Mak 20 uses a thrust bearing, while the VISX 30 does not? Is the absence of this feature even noticeable? Surprising as the Torque 2spds have em.
FWIW, I am looking into both Mak and VISX series as options as well.
Confirmed via schematic and a phone call to Penn that the
VISX does not have a thrust bearing. My surprise is the same as yours as even the Fathoms have them in their design and I consider the Internationals as their flagship series.
From what I've gathered through this site, the experts here seem to unanimously agree that a thrust bearing is critical to manage handle binding at high drags and to increase the longevity of the other parts. Angular bearings are size and cost constrained, so thrust is the best option.
What would be helpful is an explanation from Penn or some of the experts as to how the VISX design manages these issues with the existing design that lacks the thrust bearing. Perhaps I'll ask this same question in the Penn forums, which may be more closely monitored by Penn.
The Penn VISX series would not see the same benefit from thrust bearings as say the smaller Penn Torque models. Because standard bearings in the VISX being bigger they stand up well to side load. Now this isnt a free lunch. Bigger bearings in big reels just dont cast well.
What the thrust bearing does is allow higher, than in the past, drag levels with great casting in reels up to 4/0 size. Such as the Penn Torque 40.
The bigger reels will never cast as well as smaller models. Your true big game reels now days already have the drag surface area needed to make appropriate drag for their line class. With out cranking the pressure so high as to cause a side load issues with any bearings.
No need for thrust bearings... Jeff
If getting a Penn, I would send to Alan to get them pre-serviced!
Quote from: Observer on July 01, 2020, 08:50:34 PM
Quote from: pitchinwedge on June 25, 2018, 05:08:37 PM
Thanks for the input, gentlemen. The VIPER76 looks to be the pick. As for the reel, it still looks like a toss-up.
Am I correct the Mak 20 uses a thrust bearing, while the VISX 30 does not? Is the absence of this feature even noticeable? Surprising as the Torque 2spds have em.
FWIW, I am looking into both Mak and VISX series as options as well.
Confirmed via schematic and a phone call to Penn that the VISX does not have a thrust bearing. My surprise is the same as yours as even the Fathoms have them in their design and I consider the Internationals as their flagship series.
From what I've gathered through this site, the experts here seem to unanimously agree that a thrust bearing is critical to manage handle binding at high drags and to increase the longevity of the other parts. Angular bearings are size and cost constrained, so thrust is the best option.
What would be helpful is an explanation from Penn or some of the experts as to how the VISX design manages these issues with the existing design that lacks the thrust bearing. Perhaps I'll ask this same question in the Penn forums, which may be more closely monitored by Penn.
From the ENG
No thrust bearing in the VI, the same can be accomplished with the ball bearing instead, if it is sized large enough to take the force applied for a given drag. The ball bearings are sized larger in the inner drive plate and right side plate for this purpose as these are the two that transmit the force from their inner races to the outer races when drag is applied. For comparison, the ball bearing in the Okuma MAK 30 right side plate is 22mm (OD) x 10mm (ID) x 6mm (h) while the INT30VI reel has a 28.5 mm (OD) x 12.7mm (ID) x 7mm (h). In other words, the susceptibility of the reel to binding under load (handle hard to turn) is only as good as the smaller of the two bearings that are cross loaded, regardless of if one is a thrust bearing or not.
tony
Thanks Penn guy for the technical ...
Op, buy one of each and fish it and let us know you 2 salty cents.