I had some time so I drew up a hex adapter for Jigmaster drag stacks and they were cut today.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/bd464f09-616b-451f-ba94-17def9050912_zps24af88a8.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/bd464f09-616b-451f-ba94-17def9050912_zps24af88a8.jpg.html)
How Much?!!
Really, really cool.
Ron
I have to see if they will work first. I have one drawn for 5-60 gears too. For some reason when I made a suggested change to octogon my change didn't save, the 5-60 and 5-500 drawings now are octogon.
Lee, that insert looks great. Are you planning to do one for the 113h? Bob
Lee, freaking awesome!!! Can we order? I know you need to test...but if it's a go, how much? And how soon? That is a thing of beauty.
Bob
Quote from: BMITCH on April 12, 2013, 12:47:15 AM
Lee, freaking awesome!!! Can we order? I know you need to test...but if it's a go, how much? And how soon? That is a thing of beauty.
Bob
They take up more material than the dogs and I'll have to price it before I set the price. I'll try to get them moving as fast as possable.
Quote from: Cone on April 12, 2013, 12:39:47 AM
Lee, that insert looks great. Are you planning to do one for the 113h? Bob
Yes, I did the first one to use in my 112HN but I plan on making them for 5-113H 5-349, 5-349H and 5-60 gears. I want them in my Surfmasters next.
Thanks lee, please keep us updated. Looks really nice. Great work.
Bob
I see 5-60 in a grouper special real soon.
I am looking at this trying to figure a few things out.
In the original, the keyed METAL washer would engage in the main gear for pressure against the drag washers.
If I am right, the main gear would be pressuring against the hexagonal shape of the FIBER washers.
How does this design increase drag performance?
and
How much additional drag pressure can be applied over the original drag set up?
I have to say that this is really nice machining work though.
Quote from: jigmaster501 on April 12, 2013, 04:03:50 PM
I am looking at this trying to figure a few things out.
In the original, the keyed METAL washer would engage in the main gear for pressure against the drag washers.
If I am right, the main gear would be pressuring against the hexagonal shape of the FIBER washers.
How does this design increase drag performance?
and
How much additional drag pressure can be applied over the original drag set up?
I have to say that this is really nice machining work though.
With the original drag stack the CF washer floats but only 1 metal washer "works" or 1/2 of each if CF washer is turning. The hex holds the CF washer and the metal washers all work. All metal washers are keyed and move with the gear sleeve, all CF washers move with the gear.
Very nice Lee
Nice work Lee. Looking forward to the test results.
John
Sal suggested thinning it down and I talked to the cutter, they said no problem. A octogon with thinner walls has been drawn.
The octagon is better? Not sure why. This looks like a NICE upgrade. I'm going to order flat carbon sheets from dawn. Do you know which ones? Any help would be great.
Bob
Bob, we are at the beginning with this, we need to do so tests and see if it will work.
To me the octagonal shape seems to be a better choice than the hexagonal and we already know that it is working nicely in the SS spinners.
With the octagonal shape, we would gain more surface area for the drags. The down side is that the angle is not as sharp as the hexagonal shape....small price to pay for gaining two additional angles. We'll see how that goes :-\
Here is an idea on what I'm talking about. this is not scale, just an idea to visualize
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/002-18.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/002-18.jpg.html)
Sal
Quote from: Keta on April 11, 2013, 10:34:51 PM
I had some time so I drew up a hex adapter for Jigmaster drag stacks and they were cut today.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/bd464f09-616b-451f-ba94-17def9050912_zps24af88a8.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/bd464f09-616b-451f-ba94-17def9050912_zps24af88a8.jpg.html)
That cutter does do a great job, Lee ;)
Is that aluminum or stainless?
Sal, so the thought is that the oct. shape will have a larger surface area = more drag. This may or may not be a problem as far as rounding off of the CF washer??
I'd recommend using thicker CF washers, the .020 stuff I've been using to get 7+1 in 349s will probably not take the force.
So lee, what is the stack then? 5+1? In theory 25# of drag?
I need to get some CF to see. I'd be happy with 15lbs for any reel that uses the 5-500 gear.
Quote from: BMITCH on April 13, 2013, 01:18:58 PM
Sal, so the thought is that the oct. shape will have a larger surface area = more drag. This may or may not be a problem as far as rounding off of the CF washer??
Correct! I'm leaning toward not being a problem.
I've tested the smaller octagon washers to 25lb and did good.
I've also discovered something else.
When comparing the 1+5 regular HT100's drags to the 1+4 hex dags, the numbers increased by double on the hex.
What surprised me was that the reel was working much smoother with the higher setting. Maybe increasing drags doesn't necessarily mean putting additional stress on the reel :-\
Or maybe its just me not getting enough sleep ::)
Lee is right about the fiber washers, they need to be thicker and laminated.
Quote from: Keta on April 13, 2013, 02:03:41 PM
I need to get some CF to see. I'd be happy with 15lbs for any reel that uses the 5-500 gear.
X2 ;)
Very nice, Lee.
I think the amount of drag would be the same for the hex as the octagon even though one has a larger area, because the effective drag surface would be determined by the size of the keyed metal washers. (If the same size metal washer can be used in either one.) It seems like the octagon could be a better choice because the 2 extra points and less steep angles may help resist rounding off the points under high pressure. Will the factory metal washer fit inside the insert without modification or need to be ground smaller?
Quote from: doradoben on April 13, 2013, 05:19:00 PM
Very nice, Lee.
I think the amount of drag would be the same for the hex as the octagon even though one has a larger area, because the effective drag surface would be determined by the size of the keyed metal washers. (If the same size metal washer can be used in either one.) It seems like the octagon could be a better choice because the 2 extra points and less steep angles may help resist rounding off the points under high pressure. Will the factory metal washer fit inside the insert without modification or need to be ground smaller?
You are correct Doradoben, equal drag. Taking that the keyed washer would fit. Still more surface equals more strength.
Lee and myself are also working on odd numbers of sides, we believe it's a better option than the sides being parallel.
The octogon adapter ID is .050" larger than the hex ID so a larger keyed washer can be used. Octogon .837", hex .784" the 7 side is .810"
How about 12 pointed star?
You are making me work!!!
Lee, I think Bryan has something there. The drawing is very easy to do, use two hex.
Sal, do you think we will have to have special diameter keyed washers or is the size of the octagon going to use existing size washers of a max size to fit in the gear? Just trying to think of all bases to be covered. Rudy
I can cut washers to fit or stock ones can be ground down using a Bridge and gear sleeve.
Wow! Thanks Lee and Sal for your tinkering around. If this works you just improved the performance of a lot of reels . I hope the 5-60 insert works , if so all those old 1/0 senators ,surfmasters and squidders will find a new life and wider range of use. I have 10 reels that I would use them on if they become available Doug
The 12 point star is .404 OD.
Quote from: RowdyW on April 13, 2013, 09:27:05 PM
Sal, do you think we will have to have special diameter keyed washers or is the size of the octagon going to use existing size washers of a max size to fit in the gear? Just trying to think of all bases to be covered. Rudy
I can cut washers to fit or stock ones can be ground down using a Bridge and gear sleeve.
I can cut washers to fit or stock ones can be ground down using a Bridge and gear sleeve.
Lee, I think no matter what shape you chose, we will still need to cut the metal keyed washers, unless we find some that will fit from other reels. Did you see what the 7 sided looks like or should we just stick with the octagon?
The only hex gears that we would be able to use stock keyed washers would be Alan's ( Black Pearl )...if they will happen :-\.
I'm still hoping they will.
From July last year:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=4627.msg38513#msg38513
We do blame you for this! Water cutting makes the adapter easy to make.
without thinking it through,
would the round cf washers glued to
the metal washers be better?
more surface area!
no need to cut or make anything
Quote from: wallacewt on April 14, 2013, 12:31:59 AM
without thinking it through,
would the round cf washers glued to
the metal washers be better?
more surface area!
no need to cut or make anything
Page #5 Wallace:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6517.msg56009#msg56009
Quote from: Keta on April 14, 2013, 12:08:18 AM
We do blame you for this!
And thank you at the same time, Doc ;)
Yup!!!
Good, thanks.
Really i was referring to the picture of the twelve-sided washer.
Just didn't have time to write a more eloquent post about it.
.