Hey All,
I like to fish with ultra light reels. Would an ultra light reel benefit from carbon fiber drag washers too, or is that not really needed or isn't worth the investment?
If ultra light reels, would benefit, are there any types that would not be compatible (ie. plastic spool, if that even matters?
Thanks,
Matt
Yes they absolutely benefit from it. Smoothness is worth it at any size.
Yes they do! Especially the light reels like Shimano Sustain 2500 and the twin power 2500.
Those are my go to reels for Speckled Sea Trout in saltwater
how ultra is your light? ;D ;D ;D
if you like pushing tiny reels w/ 8-15# braid @ 3-5# drag, DEFINITELY get CF
conversely, if you do micro/XUL @ ludicrously low drag settings well under 1 lb,
felt will last years & adjustability may rely on how compressible the drag material is
Thank you Gentlemen,
My smallest reels which I was talking about are inexpensive Daiwa Laguna-500s and a Shimano AXUL S 500, which is my best garage sale find for $5.
Interestingly, the Daiwa appears to use dark colored teflon washers.
Presumably, these can all be replaced if they fit inside the spool and around the main shaft?
I'm just curious if smoother (or really light drags) help with keeping more fish on the hook?
Thanks,
Matt
The issue of what is and isn't worth I with fishing becomes entirely indefensible, speaking purely logically. It very rapidly devolves to what the individual angler prefers. You can catch a fish just fine on a direct drive reel with no drag or anti reverse at all. Or on line wrapped around a coke bottle. Or with a spear. If you are skilled enough. There's also "noodling" which requires no equipment. Or just go to the walmart frozen section and buy fish sticks.
Philosophy aside A smoother drag may or may not keep fish on hooks. But it certainly seems to keep hooks on lines. Sometimes with fish attached.
As a drag material, plain Teflon (if not deformed) should have a lower difference between static and kinetic coefficient of friction than CF - I.e., smoother less sticky. Also does not absorb water or collect crud.
Teflon will deform at clamping pressure required for higher drags in bigger reels, but should be fine for your ultralight. There is also Rulon, which is Teflon with a carbon fiber filler, allowing for greater clamping load, but still so smooth that it is tough to get enough drag for bigger reels.
I would be inclined to go with stock Teflon and metal washers, cleaned and replaced as necessary, unless the Teflon has a tendency to deform, but greased CF in place of Teflon would be fine too.
-J
Drag in ultralight or Microlite reels is over-rated —- and if fishing a quality spinning reel —- factory is more than we will ever need.
Exceptions would be when hot-rodding an ultralight spinner for salt or surf fishing.
For most freshwater —- factory stock works very capably.
More important than drag numbers is proper rod handling with a good quality rod matched to the reel. More resistance will be transferred to the fish with gaining a "feel" for the rod action primarily —- and the drag second.
Like Dave sez —- most quality Ultralites will have a good quality Teflon disc/discs —- coupled with a same sized metal disc, and drag spring.
I would be more concerned with the rod than the drag on an ultralite combo.
Best, Fred
I don't disagree with anything Fred or Dave said. But I would like to clarify that I never once mentioned max drag. I talked about smoothness. Max drag isnt usually a consideration to me with an UL because drag disk size is gonna generally limit that. I'm far more interested in the number of turns between zero and my ideal max for that setup. That can be adjusted with bellevilles etc. it is my opinion that the best drag is a lightly greased multi disk carbon drag with polished metal disks is just about the best drag option out there right now. I've never heard that teflon worked better at very low settings but I'm open to the idea.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 16, 2023, 01:05:30 AMI don't disagree with anything Fred or Dave said. But I would like to clarify that I never once mentioned max drag. I talked about smoothness. Max drag isnt usually a consideration to me with an UL because drag disk size is gonna generally limit that. I'm far more interested in the number of turns between zero and my ideal max for that setup. That can be adjusted with bellevilles etc. it is my opinion that the best drag is a lightly greased multi disk carbon drag with polished metal disks is just about the best drag option out there right now. I've never heard that teflon worked better at very low settings but I'm open to the idea.
The closer the COFs, the smoother the drag. Teflon/Rulon is as good as it gets in this regard. Plus nothing sticks to it and it doesn't absorb water, so it will tend to stay at peak performance. The only issue is that the pressure/velocity combo can be a bit low for stronger drags. Having said that, not sure if I would be able to tell the difference if you handed me two of the same ultralights, one with Teflon's, and one with freshly greased CF. Probably about the same. Fred would know.
A lot of time here, we tend to give advice based on what we know works, which is as it should be. We just have to avoid the bias of assuming it is the best option.
And if you want to have some fun, check out compatibility of synthetic oil based greases and plastics often used on older reels (ABS, polycarbonate). Nylon(including so-called "graphite") parts are usually OK. I might consider going to silicone grease if it was an older reel with plastic internals that I intended to preserve.
Learning new stuff every day, I am :)
-J
Thank you Dave and Fred,
I appreciate the knowledge and advice from your posts.
Matt
Another important e
When I lived on the Intercoastal Highway in Gulf Breeze I've had numerous Captain's come on my dock into my shop to get Carbontex sets for their Shimano Stradics. The felt washers, especially the bottom one, had worn down so much that the first metal washer has dug in the spool. You could see the scratches from that metal washer the stock felt washers in Shimano reels are crap
I run pflueger patriarch 3500 and 2500,,,,, ;) but when both needed to be serviced,,,,I got a cheap okuma 2500 the drag was jerky and alan sent me some carbon fiber one's and it made a big difference with a little 2 speed cals grease,,,,, ;D
I know a couple of fairly accomplished light tackle anglers that swear by felt. They fish a maximum of about 1lb of drag though, from reels that are capable of much more.
Interesting...
If the clamping pressure is very low, I could see how compressible felt would handle uneven pressure better than a hard material. So maybe it could be a better choice for very light drag if everything is not exactly flat and parallel? And it would be more difficult to press everything nice and flat under very light clamping load.
Sort of a small window though. Too much load for too long, and you will get the sort of problems that Keith noted.
Quote from: jurelometer on February 17, 2023, 01:53:35 AMInteresting...
If the clamping pressure is very low, I could see how compressible felt would handle uneven pressure better than a hard material. So maybe it could be a better choice for very light drag if everything is not exactly flat and parallel? And it would be more difficult to press everything nice and flat under very light clamping load.
Sort of a small window though. Too much load for too long, and you will get the sort of problems that Keith noted.
not only that, but many(most?) Shimanos have a calibrated/incremental drag knob
a little spring-loaded post pops in/out of divots -- you can't set the drag "between clicks"
w/ bigger reels and/or higher settings, I actually love this feature for repeatability precision
HOWEVER, the oldest & smallest knob of that type has TOO FEW STOP-POITS/DIVOTS (10-12?)
[1000/2000-size of 90's models cheaper than Sustain & older than Stradic FH... some later cheaper models, too]
at lightest settings, w/ non-compressible material (even, old crushed felt)
one click can be too drastic of an adjustment -- you can't have the EXACT drag you want
just have to choose between hair over & hair under & compensate w/ rod-handling
not a huge deal, but NOT ideal function either
old-style tiny boxy 500's don't use that knob (know nothing about sleek modern 500/750-size)
the drag sucks regardless of drag material (Rulon?), because it's a tiny 2-stack... microscopic OD :(
needs bigger metal discs, for which there's plenty of room in the drag well
sure they will. a smooth drag is more important in a small light reel as you will be using very fine line right down to 1.5-2lb BS. The slightes judder could result in the line snapping