What exactly are the symptoms?
Sounds like?
Feels like?
Looks like?
When I put one of my 501's under load by applying pressure to the spool while reeling, its got a very noticeable rumbling sound and I can clearly feel something is not right.
Thanks for the help!
Andy
Mostly feels like.
It sure sounds like that's what you need.
Keith
I go by how they feel and look, from what I've seen and in general:
Rough under load or at all times--possibly worn or damaged.
Smooth under load but otherwise slightly rough--possibly deformed teeth (these will still work but eventually need replacing).
Worn gears don't always look the part, the key is to carefully examine their teeth.
New gears are clean, crisp, and their edges sharp;
Worn gears have a duller, flatter look. They may appear distorted or exhibit a definite pattern of wear.
Chad
Rumbling under load may also be a symptom of used gears that are correct, but mis-matched.
i.e. A pinion from one reel and main gear from another--their wear rates/patterns are so drastically different as to cause rumbling.
Chad
(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag355/photoHumboldt/IMG_0093_zpsznjaormj.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/photoHumboldt/media/IMG_0093_zpsznjaormj.jpg.html)(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag355/photoHumboldt/IMG_0092_zps7k7qhy7o.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/photoHumboldt/media/IMG_0092_zps7k7qhy7o.jpg.html)(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag355/photoHumboldt/IMG_0095_zpssaolepkr.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/photoHumboldt/media/IMG_0095_zpssaolepkr.jpg.html)
Looks rounded to me. So the edges of the pinion should be sharp too? Pinion looks bad too I guess...
Andy yes, good gears will have fairly crisp-looking edges--both main and pinion.
The first photo Steve posted is an example of damage to otherwise good-looking gears.
The pinion shot you posted looks quite worn--rounded as you noted.
Chad
Andy,
How much pressure did you apply to your reel?...and how did you apply it?
I do two things when I suspect gear problems. 1) Remove and clean both gears. First wipe the grease with white paper towels and check for bits of metal or other foreign objects that don't belong in your gears. Metal shards will tell you which gear needs a closer look if they are different materials such as a brass main and stainless pinion. Next use a brush and solvent to get the gear teeth spotless for closer inspection. Use a magnifying glass if necessary. 2) Substitute a known good gear set and give the reel a whirl. This will let you know if your bridge or spool shaft are out of spec. A bent spool shaft can cause havoc on your gears. When a shaft flexes it allows gear teeth to contact at angles that can and will damage them.
All these trick parts at our disposal can cause a person to get too brave about applying a lot of force to these reels. In my opinion you should only apply max drag up to the actual line strength you plan to fish...unless you're Sal and you're maxing these components out to test actual max strength. This is what you would call 'destructive testing' and it has a place in developing these parts but we don't all need to break our reels in the process. Sal has been very generous in sharing his data with us. After that we just need to trust Sal and the manufacturers then set our drags and fish our reels in realistic ranges (which are quite improved over the original design parameters). I believe in our current state of affairs the spool shafts may now be the weakest link.
-Mike
You will run into different situations, there are many things that come to play, we just try to get close.
On the Jigmaster's original gears, I was able to hold 26lb of dead weight. You wouldn't be able to do it with a stock gear set, I had custom washers installed.
The notch on the pinion failed when I added a little more weight, all teeth were fine.
In the beginning, while testing Alan C. gears, they failed at around 10lb, this was done by simply holding the spool and turning the handle.
When I examined the gears, the very edge on the teeth were shiny, still not damaged, but shiny with minor scrapes. This told me that the gears were not meshing correctly.
They made adjustments with the pinion and the gears did good afterwards.
At times you will feel as the reel is working great, but when you gradually apply drag, it will feel as it's going into freespool, that's usually related to meshing.
Other times you will feel a faint bump at the same revolution with the handle, this one could drive you crazy, because everything looks normal with the naked eye. But, as Mike has mentioned, a magnifying glass will usually reveal the problem.
On other situations, the handle will freeze, making it impossible to turn, that's when you really did a good job on your gears and probably other parts as well.
I'm a strong believer that increasing the drags on a reel will actually help the gears. Let me try to explain.
A stock 4/0 will start to feel rough at aroung 24lb, that would be with the star cranked all the way.
If adding all the parts available today on that same reel, It makes it possible to stretch the drags to 50lb ( testing pupose only ).
Now, when I set it back to 24lb, that reel will feel as smooth as silk.
Smooth reels don't fail as easy as rough ones.
I want to mention that in my workshop I have a flourescent light, somehow that soft light helps quite a bit with examining gears and everything else.
We came a long way., with his latest, I believe Alan C. has the best gears on the market today for these reels mentioned above, but you'll be the judge.
The only problem I see with those, he will knock himself out of business ;D...just kidding Alan, keep coming with those, you're doing good ;)
Sal
The Newell 3.6 gear sets that Alan made with 416 hardened SS performed perfectly after a year of hard fishing. Made them perfect first time around after a lot of test sets on the jigmasters for R&D.
Im going to try and post a video of the what I am talking about. I am not putting too much load on the spool while cranking. Just my thumb. Very noticalble grinding and vibration occurs.
Jigmaster gears are not hard to find, change them.
To properly inspect a gear it needs to be clean and grease free. With my failing eyes I use a magnifier to closely inspect the gears, look for pitting, spalling, sharp teeth and other signs of metal deforming.
I always replace gears once I start to hear and feel them. You shouldn't be able to feel individual teeth when cranking; it should be smooth. That happens frequently on Jigmasters because, compared to may reels, the individual teeth are small; this is especially true of the high speed Jigmasters (505 and 506). When you do replace the gears it's usually wise to replace the pinion yoke as well because one side is frequently worn by the time you replace the gears.
http://youtu.be/ethIc1w72pk
Listen here...
Took them out cleaned them inspected them I could only find one little nick in the gear. It has to be something else. Perhaps the gear and the pinion not lining up properly? Going to swap out none good gear next...
Are the gears stainless?
Have you tried the gears without the dogs in place?
They make a noise like that when in need of some 'shaving'?
steve
I've found that jigmaster gears make noise in general. The gears will always be a bit louder under load. I've seen different types of gears in them too. The old steel main or the brass main. The brass will have a softer feel.
I just put a few brand new sets of gears in jigmasters and 112Hs. They make a little bit of a rumble.
One thing I've found that can influence gear noise in a worn yolk. I'd start with a new one if you haven't already.
Shot gears will vibrate and have a whirring sound. Sometimes it doesn't take much wear to give the gears a different feel. When I first started doing this I couldn't tell just from looking at a gear. Now I can notice imperfections in the gears. Take a look at the teeth with a magnifying glass. Sometimes it pays to have a new gear on hand just to compare them. I mainly judge it by feel and sound though.
In you video it sounded to me like the tape was hitting against the frame. Might be more going on but I'd start with reapplying the tape.
I here a rough spot in there, I think its your main gear where I can see the rounding over of the teeth particularly in one spot.
Id try another gear in there and see if it feels better or worse.
My jigmasters commonly feel and sound like that my gears are either steel or stainless steel. Alan frequently tells me to replace the gears but I'm cheap and the gears still work so I fish the like it sounds. Customers reels on the other hand, I switch them out. I do not like my customers to have Reels that feel rough.
Quote from: steelhead_killer on February 09, 2016, 09:02:13 PM
Took them out cleaned them inspected them I could only find one little nick in the gear. It has to be something else. Perhaps the gear and the pinion not lining up properly? Going to swap out none good gear next...
if handled and opened 95 percent yes
I opened 3 new ones several times, took apart and assembeled, and it rumbles and ticks , all 3 now do that
Happy to say after servicing the JigMaster that I have there is no growl sounds, I spin the handles and let them free spin for maybe 6-8 turns. It is very smooth, If it weren't I would further inspect the mesh of the main and Pinion gears, then the clutch. If they are SS gears then you cant get those gears to be noise free.
Joe