Can someone check my math for calculating line capacity? I'm not looking for a chart, but rather a way of calculating it myself.
For example, Scott's state on their Jigmaster specs page that a 500 hold 275 yds. of 30 lb monofilament. I assume that spec came from Penn. Surfing the Internet I find that 30lb mono has a diameter of about 0.55mm. I guess the best way to calculate capacities of other lines for the 500 would be as a ratio. An example:
- If with 0.55 mm line I can fit 275 yds, then how much line that is 0.41mm (65lb PowerPro) would fit the same spool?
- 0.55/0.41=1.34 So, there would be a 34% capacity gain from the 30lb mono to 65lb braid.
- 1.34x275=368.5 So, about 368 yds of 65lb braid would fit a Jigmaster 500 spool.
Does this seem correct?
Not sure where 0.016 came from?
As an oversimplification; it would be about the cross-sectional area of the line.
Area = pi x radius^2
0.55 mono, area =~0.24
0.41 braid, area = ~0.13
0.24/0.13 = ~1.8
So I would expect you to get roughly 1.8 times as much line on; a pinch under 500 yards.
But then you have to factor in that small circles tesselate with less waste than larger ones, so you will fit slightly extra due to less wasted space, and the fact that braid deforms better to fill gaps.
This is loosely confirmed by the numbers on Okuma's site, for example a Mak16 will hold 500yd of 0.55 and 870yd of 0.42
It is tricky to figure accurately. When you consider monofilament is basically round, the larger the line gets, the more wasted space there is between coils and layers of line. Braid is better about laying flat and nesting tightly, but published diameter numbers are rarely accurate.
The math to do it accurately is an equation way beyond me. Its a little easier to manage by experience when you have done a few though. I have a number of offshore spinning reels all spooled with daiwa saltiga boat braid, 55 lb. I have found that capacity nearly perfectly matches the advertised capacity of 14 lb mono on my reels. 80 lb braid is usually between 20 and 25 lb mono in my experience.
Most accurate way to tell? Have your line spooled by a shop that sells it by the yard.
I think the most accurate way is to the nearest football field or use a rangefinder at an open area... ;D JK
I think line manufacturers should provide the yards per cubic inch (or some similar units). Then you only need to figure the volume (cubic inches) of the spool (or part of a spool) that you want to fill to determine the length of line. Curved flanges make the spool volume a little tricky to calculate but you can get close without much effort.
-steve
On my home built line spooler I fitted a converted surveyors measuring wheel - dirt cheap and pretty accurate. I only really take notice of it if I'm spooling for someone else.
I kind of ignore it for my own uses :-\
Quote from: boon on July 27, 2017, 10:41:32 PM
Not sure where 0.016 came from?
As an oversimplification; it would be about the cross-sectional area of the line.
Area = pi x radius^2
0.55 mono, area =~0.24
0.41 braid, area = ~0.13
0.24/0.13 = ~1.8
So I would expect you to get roughly 1.8 times as much line on; a pinch under 500 yards.
But then you have to factor in that small circles tesselate with less waste than larger ones, so you will fit slightly extra due to less wasted space, and the fact that braid deforms better to fill gaps.
This is loosely confirmed by the numbers on Okuma's site, for example a Mak16 will hold 500yd of 0.55 and 870yd of 0.42
Hats off to you, Boon, for this explanation! The "0.016" was a typo;corrected.
Never came across the word "tesselate" before. A good word for the digital age. Hope I get to use it in Scrabble someday ;)
If I could get close to 500 yds of 65lb braid on Jigmaster, that would be great.
Thanks again for your insight!
What got me thinking about this is that many of the upgrades done on this site (sleeve, drags, frame, etc.) are increasing the strength of the reel, but the other aspect is line capacity. If a spool can hold double the length of braid as of mono, then that seems to indicate that smaller, hot-rodded reels can move up to the next class. Couldn't a beefed-up vintage Jiggy with braid do the work of a Senator 4/0 of the same era? It's probably obvious to a lot of the guys on this site, but I've just begun to process this ::)
Quote from: oc1 on July 28, 2017, 10:39:20 AM
I think line manufacturers should provide the yards per cubic inch (or some similar units). Then you only need to figure the volume (cubic inches) of the spool (or part of a spool) that you want to fill to determine the length of line. Curved flanges make the spool volume a little tricky to calculate but you can get close without much effort.
-steve
I have a crazy suggestion for calculating spool volume.
- Get a can or two of Playdoh
- make a cubic inch of Playdoh, and weigh it.
- Fill the spool with Playdoh to simulate a spool full of line.
- Remove the Playdoh from the spool and weigh it.
- Divide the weight of the spool-filling playdoh by the weight of the cubic inch. Would give you cubic inches of spool capacity, right?
At the end of the day I'm just a guy posting on the Internet ;D
That much I got.....makes sense to me, but hen again I didn't " stay at a holiday inn express" last night ::). Bill
Quote from: TARFU on July 31, 2017, 04:22:38 AM
That much I got.....makes sense to me, but hen again I didn't " stay at a holiday inn express" last night ::). Bill
Trying to decode this, Bill... but I suspect you're making fun of me :P That's what I get for suggesting to use playdoh for reel calculations. All I can figure out is that the "holiday inn express" is some reference to the PODUS. /Joe
Joe, the Holiday Inn Express reference is to a bunch of TV commercials in which people are able to perform beyond their pay grade and knowledge abilities after having slept in one the previous night. I think Bill was making fun of himself....
Sid
Great, I'm sold! ;D Let's move on to Internationals! ;)
Quote from: boon on July 27, 2017, 10:41:32 PM
...But then you have to factor in that small circles tesselate with less waste than larger ones, ....
Small (uniform) circles fill an area with the same efficiency as large circles. The size of the gaps may be larger with the larger circles, but there are fewer of them. And the size of the gaps relative to the size of the circles will be the same, which in fact defines the efficiency of the tesselation. Imagine looking at a bunch of circles drawn touching each other to fill a wall. Then look at the same wall using binoculars so that the circles look bigger. Then turn the binoculars around so that the circles look smaller. The efficiency of packing didn't change because of how big the circles were from your changing perspective, just because they looked bigger or smaller. In cross section they should fill the same proportion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_packing) of the available area regardless of line diameter (tightest packing would fill about 90% of the cross-sectional area of the spool).
Quote from: scrinch on July 31, 2017, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: boon on July 27, 2017, 10:41:32 PM
...But then you have to factor in that small circles tesselate with less waste than larger ones, ....
... "the efficiency of the tesselation"
Love it!
Guess the guys on that 'Forged in Fire' show were wrong when they said it would take less glue to fill the voids between many smaller pins within a pin verses a few larger pins within a pin then.
John
If the 90% packing (10% void) is always true then it should be possible to calculate line length when you know only spool volume and line diameter. I'm going to try it and see. Confounding factors would be flattening of braid and effect of the to-and-fro line leveling on packing. But, maybe there are corrections for those too.
-steve
This is GOOD. I'm just sitting back and watching :D
I just use this, of the dozen reels I've measured compared to the numbers this calculator gives me, its very close. I used it to figure how much 150# topshot would go on my 12/0 over 600 yards of 200 JBH, it was off by 10 yards 436 to 446, but I packed it to the bars under 20# or so of drag.
http://www.fishingstyles.com/forums/calc.swf
js
Quote from: js1172 on September 09, 2017, 11:22:54 AM
I just use this, of the dozen reels I've measured compared to the numbers this calculator gives me, its very close. I used it to figure how much 150# topshot would go on my 12/0 over 600 yards of 200 JBH, it was off by 10 yards 436 to 446, but I packed it to the bars under 20# or so of drag.
http://www.fishingstyles.com/forums/calc.swf
js
I've recently started under-filling my reels by a percentage; the problem being if I break off at the terminal tackle in deeper water, and I have to wind in say 100m+ of braid and 10m of heavy leader under essentially no load at all, it's very easy to suddenly have a completely full reel and line still in the water.
I'm reading everything you all wrote now I'm going to tesselate.
steve
Quote from: swill88 on September 12, 2017, 03:51:48 AM
I'm reading everything you all wrote now I'm going to tesselate.
steve
May your tesselations be true!
Quote from: swill88 on September 12, 2017, 03:51:48 AM
I'm reading everything you all wrote now I'm going to tesselate.
steve
ok somebody define "tessellate" to an unedumacated redneck!
js
Quote from: js1172 on September 12, 2017, 11:24:50 PM
Quote from: swill88 on September 12, 2017, 03:51:48 AM
I'm reading everything you all wrote now I'm going to tesselate.
steve
ok somebody define "tessellate" to an unedumacated redneck!
js
It means "fit." Fill a bucket with rocks of the same size, and shake it around and add more until the rocks fill the bucket and no more rocks fit. The rocks are tessellated in the bucket.
That illustrates the idea, but it really is a term for geometry, as I understand. Here it applies to fishing line of a uniform thickness fitting in a cross-sectional area of a spool.
Make any sense?
perfectly, just seems like a complicated word for "fit"
js
Quote from: js1172 on September 13, 2017, 10:46:57 PM
perfectly, just seems like a complicated word for "fit"
js
Yeah, I had to google it myself ;D