I do have an odd ball thing that is showing up on Ambassaduer 6500C3 reels of which I have done tons--that have the anti-reverse bearing. These reels have been fished hard down on the coast and out in blue water on bigger fish, top and bottom fish. They are using 50 lb braid with a top shot or straight.
So maybe you've seen this before??? All three reels are doing this....
If I turn the handle fast, like lets say I was cranking in a fish with the drag at a reasonable setting so the spool turns easy, if I turn that handle and then stop and hold it (handle), the reel spool makes a clacking noise and slightly free spools back wards in the direction the spool normally goes when your reeling in?? So this spool should just stop dead, but it is not. All three reels have this same problem, I looked at every scenario, and what got me to think it was the ant-reverse bearing, is I had an old 6500C reel that had a regular little dog, and no anti-reverse bearing. This reel did the same thing, and had a similar sound, I just got up and running with Garcia and ordered parts including a few goods and specifically one dog for this one. I put in the dog and bingo I couldn't make the reel do that any more. So that got me to thinking that this problem is indeed the anti-reverse bearing on all three reels are shot. They engage when your turning the handle slowly but if you turn it hard and stop it the spool clacks and keeps going. I say the spool but it is actually the bearing, it sounds like the spool, I even thought it was the pinion, but changed the pinion between all of them and that did not change it from doing that. What do you think? Have you ever seen this before, and would you think my diagnostic is correct?
The guy that has me cleaning these says that these were hard fished on big fish with heavy braid on the reel. So they have been hard fished, and so this "wear" is unusual and you probably normally don't see this in most reels of this type that you clean.....
I have done reels that make that noise, its 2 pieces of sprung metal under the main gear as I recall.
that's actually normal. the spool can keep moving because of the way that the pinion gear is cut. take a look and you will see the angle.
x2 on Ron and Alan's posts.
Found the same thing meself...
I replaced the mechanical dog on an old 6500C and that stopped it dead. These new ones have the anti-reverse bearing, and while I did observe the cut backwards on the pinion, I just am a little confused because my son does reel repair as well on the West Coast and he has never seen this before. He couldn't get his to do this, yet I have three that all do it? So I thought it might be the anti-reverse--if this is normal great! I just am concerned that my client is going to get on a big fish and the bearing go out. I wonder if anyone on the forum has a newer reel and can make theres do this or not? It would be interesting.
There's such variety among Abus, even within particular model lines.
For example, there are 21 (slightly) different configurations of the 6500C3 here: http://www.abugarcia.com/support/reel-schematics?field_schem_numb_value=6500c3 (http://www.abugarcia.com/support/reel-schematics?field_schem_numb_value=6500c3).
I did a 6500C3 a couple o' days ago that had the 'tabbed' spring washer (as described by Ron), which locks against the ratchet gear and engages the drag.
This produces the clicking sound when spun backwards (as you describe), or by thumbing the spool and winding.
Effectively, the spool (in the former) and the gear (in the latter) is spinning without the ratchet gear, so the anti-reverse dog has no reason to engage.
I did another 6500C3 last week that had an anti-reverse bearing and no 'tabbed' spring washer and, thus, no click.
Hope that's of some assistance - unfortunately I don't have any on hand to photograph.
All the best, Justin
Ok. even now more of a quandary. Agreed there are so many versions. So after I posted here, I went back into my repair office and begun looking at the rees again for the 15th time. I only assumed that the issue was the anti-reverse bearing because they were so hardly fished. Well here is what happened, as I examined the right side spool bearing there is a washer of brass shaped like a little cone. The cone was upside down, so I turned it back facing up, and put it all together, and guess what--you got it; the clacking noise stopped and no matter how hard I spin the handle and stop the handle, the spool stops immediately with no clack and no back spin as I previously made mention. The only thing I can think of, is the bearing now pushes out the spindle enough that it engages the pinion and that is my only thought. However as I mentioned before, I put a new dog in an older 6500C standard and that stopped it from clacking. So it looks like there are multiple issues with this. Depending on the reel. Now it just happened that two of these reels are the 6500C 3 and are the same, after changing the washer in the second to face up also stopped it, and I can't make it clack anymore.
So I believe that this clacking sound is not normal, but I could be wrong. If it starts back-up for any reason I will immediately re-post. But now the third reel is called the "Original", its blue in color. It also has a anti-reverse bearing, the sound in this one is very prominent, and I have tried several things including the washer and it did not help at all---go figure. So I am stumped.... I shall play around more with it. Anyone have any more ideas?
I'm thinking it is normal,, but, I can't replicate the symptom you describe with an empty spool,,However, with a mono filled spool, I can crank the handle and stop,, and the spool will continue a bit,, with the clicking..I agree it's the pinion overiding the pins on the brake carrier.
If you crank the handle vigorously, then it is stopped suddenly,, and there is some drag set,, the main and pinion wouldn't be turning,, so, noise from the anti-reverse "dog" wouldn't be an issue, nor would the flimsy spring on the back of some main gears be moving to create it's noise...
Also, I've had the same with the 7000 C3's,, and, definitely with higher gear ratios..
Anyhow,,This won't happen with a fish on...
Dear snagged, glad you can replicate what is going on...so you do think this is normal. Did you try flipping the washer behind the right side spool bearing? LIke you said it may never happen with a fish on, and agreed it does seem to be a pinion thing and not as I first assumed an anti-reverse bearing issue. I appreciate your insight, certainly helps us all have a little insight into this. At a minimum I have stopped this all together in three of the four reels. If I find a "fix" for this 6500 Blue reel, I will post again. This interesting. I am buying some parts from Garcia, I might ask their reel repair guys the same question and repost of I get anything from them. I suspect you have identified the issue, and I am hoping I can come up with a fix so this doesn't happen on the last reel. It does sem to be addressable.
Good points,, and, I can't replicate it in all of the Abu 6500 and variants of 7000's.
This gives me an idea for an experiment,,, trying this using a 2 slot pinion and a 4 slot pinion.. in late model anti-reverse bearing 6500's..
and,, looking into the copper washer issue under the handle side bearing....your findings are interesting to me there.
and, slightly worn pinion slots may be a culprit...??
Otherwise,, I've already said more than I know!! :D
AAArrgghh,, I don't think any of the above in my previous post are it..
I tried 2-slot and 4-slot pinions,, and the appropriate brake carriers..
The only way I can stop it in a reel that does it,, (and I'm testing here on a 6500 Chrome CS Rocket with 6.3 gearing.. and, It's new, never fished..), is to slightly tighten the LS spool bearing cap.. which, may be a bit more than where I'd like to fish it..
After looking at some various parts,, new, out of the reel,, I'm wondering... if it could be caused by the pinion jumping laterally along the spool axle towards the handle,, at the instant of the pinion being unloaded from the main gear when the handle is stopped ..
The pinion carrier has a bit of lateral "slop" in it, in relation to the relief that is cut into the pinion, that snaps into the pinion carrier..That, and the angular cut gears,, may allow the tiniest bit of "jump" from the loaded position during cranking to an "unloaded" condition,, that may have the pinion trying to "climb" the gear angles.. (helicals)
The pinion carrier is actually somewhat flexible, and is only held in place by the "leaf springs" that actuate it in the engaged or freespool mode , so, some "bounce" could possibly occur.
All the parts I'm "testing" with are new,,
With a fish on,or other load, the spool would stop immediately or close to it, when you stopped cranking,, preventing spool rotation and the resultant symptom.
I don't know,,but, would like to hear what you may learn from the Abu fellows.
I'm calling this morning. will get back to you. Now based on what your saying it looks like Alan sort of hit it on the head out the door, that this is normal forAbu-Garcia. Especially given his observation, and you sound like your saying the same thing as well. Its amazing to me that this would happen with a brand new reel. If you tinker around with them, apparently the issue can be resolved in some but then U have the Blue 6500C4 original (0701) that I have not figured out and it actually has a very prominent clack--go figure?
Will post later today...after I order some parts.
I talked to Dale who is one of the tech specialist at Abu-Garcia. Alan is right on the money---Dale said this is normal for their reels and not to be concerned, that this will not happen when fighting a fish and is designed to over ride the pinion and spool connector (round piece on the spool held on with a c-clip) so it won't tear-up the pinion. The pinion gear is as Alan said purposely cut at that angle to do so.... So there you have-it. He was very surprised that my two reels with the cone washer postion change would affect the reel at all. So go figure, but I think this puts this to bed for me....
Hi, what's a cone washer? there is no cone shaped washer in any Abu I've ever seen. Got a part number?
In the 4-5-6 Abus, with one cast cap on the LH plate, not both, I've only seen two washers: one under the main gear on the driveshaft, and another behind the ball bearing in the spool of an ultracast model. And they are not like a cone. Do you mean the two bellevilles on top of the IAR spacer? Thanks.
Oh yeah: the noise is normal like all say, and will only occur when you force the reel to do it by quickly cranking the handle, then holding it in stall, as the inertia of the spool keeps it moving against the pinion which is also stalled.
Hey Ken,
I believe the reference of cone washer is to the copper belleville underneath the handle side spool bearing.
S2, OK, got it, thanks. RspS: Is there a format to get to speak with Dale at Purefishing? thx 2u2, kd
HA! You all got me laughing, correct, I didn't have a technical name for it, so I used the best description I could! Cheers!
It appears I misinterpreted this.
Thumbing the spool and winding under very light drag will produce a similar clicking from the tanged or tabbed spring washer on some models.
Apologies for confusing the issue.
Quote from: redsetta on December 19, 2011, 09:06:33 PM
It appears I misinterpreted this.
Thumbing the spool and winding under very light drag will produce a similar clicking from the tanged or tabbed spring washer on some models.
Apologies for confusing the issue.
Kewl. This one as far as I know, was the only click spring version in ultracast, and IAR.
http://www.mikesreelrepair.com/schematics/albums/ambassadeur/Ambassadeur_6500C3_Click_Spring_07_00_-_thx_to_KD.pdf
That's the one - thanks Ken.
Your knowledge of Abus is a reel asset... ;)