I just got done doing the complete tear down on my new mak 50w. (Thank you Alan for the awesome teardown tutorial) Everything went pretty smoothly except the reel seat screws were all corroded. Thing had never been fished. They were super hard to even get out and one snapped upon removal. Luckily enough the rest of the screw was exposed to grab it with pliers and get the rest of it out. I email okuma and they are sending me 4 new screws but were alarmed that I was taking it apart in the first place and advised I don't do it. They said they had numerous issues with screws breaking off in the real seat holes. Anyone else have the same issue? My brother got a brand new mak 50w but I'm hesitant to remove those screws if they are vulnerable to snap. (Idk why they weren't stainless steel in the first place) Thoughts?
yeah, seen that with andros reels. i think it's something they need to work on....... :-\
Is it corrosion or dried cutting fluid/coolent?
Undoubtably corrosion..
That's very disturbing for a brand new reel to be corroded.....Bill
Pics or it did not happen! ;D
Sweat from the assembly person's forehead? I wonder what it could have caused it.
I don't have much experience with reels but I have seen corrosion in my savage rifles, screws in the action and barrel nuts. I saw it only after I took off the factory barrels of the actions.
This is common, my buddy's Andros had a broken screw. It was replaced at no cost.
Shows the importance of -- at the very least, a pre-service examination, before fishing -- even if brand new.
These reels may need nothing -- but you never know for sure unless you have eyes on.
We are taught here on the Alan Tani site to discover, learn, and understand how a reel can work to its maximum -- and even better.
A fishing pre-service is not only recommended, I consider it essential -- at least for the folks on our site, and our clients who depend on us.
Why trust your next $3000 long range trip and maybe the fish of a lifetime -- to anyone but yourself and your experienced knowledge?
You did good by breaking it down Noahg.
If me, I would look for SS replacement screws, then replace them just slightly marine greased to prevent corrosion -- and more importantly, to be able to remove them for restoration and service down the road.
Okuma is comparable or equal to the best High Performance Salt reels in the world currently.
And Okuma is a solid company, and will take care of any issues promptly.
However, you should still inspect your weapons before going into battle.
No excuses or shortcuts for preparation.
Just my opinions.
Best,
Fred
Question...Where do you think the best place would be to look for stainless steel strews in the same demensions? If I found one with the same thread and head size could I cut it to the appropriate length?
Call Okuma, they have the correct screw.
If you are near Ontario, CA....take a drive. If you are not, call them up and they will send you a replacement.
hmm per Alantani post on another thread saying the makaira model SEa didnt needed pre-service, I never did one to my mk-15Sea, but now that you found that on yours, I better take the reel seat screws out and grease them with yamaha grease just to be sure they can be removed down the road.
The worst thing a reel manufacturer could do is to try pinching pennies on quality of screws. Anyway, i am gonna oil all my screws once a month. Do you think that is enough considering i fish saltwater 1-2 times a week? Or should i oil them after every session?
Quote from: Reel Beaker on January 17, 2018, 02:33:53 AM
The worst thing a reel manufacturer could do is to try pinching pennies on quality of screws. Anyway, i am gonna oil all my screws once a month. Do you think that is enough considering i fish saltwater 1-2 times a week? Or should i oil them after every session?
So just a little drop on the screw base will do it? wick effect will cause the oil to though the threads?
Quote from: Reel Beaker on January 17, 2018, 02:33:53 AM
The worst thing a reel manufacturer could do is to try pinching pennies on quality of screws. Anyway, i am gonna oil all my screws once a month. Do you think that is enough considering i fish saltwater 1-2 times a week? Or should i oil them after every session?
Highly recommend TSI321. It is an excellent corrosion inhibitor.
Quote from: Gobi King on January 17, 2018, 02:48:14 PM
So just a little drop on the screw base will do it? wick effect will cause the oil to though the threads?
Grease works better, take out and grease one screw out at a time.
even if you can't field strip a big lever drag, you can work a screwdriver. there is still something that you should do. i can't think of a single reel where the removal of one screw disables the reel. i'd recommend removing every visible screw, one at a time. back out the screw, grease it, put it back, tighten it down a little, and then move on the to next. you should never have more than one screw out at a time. if you can't remove it by hand because it's too corroded, then add a little corrosion x around the top of the head if the screw and consider sending it in at some point.
you should be able to do this, one screw at a time, for any reel. the one exception is the screws that hold on the reel seats (bases) for the small okuma reels. they use small fine thread metric machine screws held in with loctite. it's really easy to snap these off. for the small okuma reels, just add corrosion x or grease around the head of the screw and call it done.
for the rest of the reel, manually add corrosion x with a dropper bottle to the corners and creases where corrosion happens, then wipe it down. alternatively, tape the line and spray the outside of the reel with aerosol corrosion and then wipe it down to remove the excess.
you have plenty of time, but spring will be here before you know it. ping me if there are any questions! alan
I've had this issue with one of my own Andros reels & four others I worked on. On some, based on what I was seeing it caused me to question whether or not the lock tite was causing an issue with corrosion. My procedure until Okuma finds a fix is installing helicoils & greasing the screws. TS1 is as Brian stated a very good corrosion inhibitor... Jeff
Quote from: foakes on January 15, 2018, 05:40:57 PM
...............then replace them just slightly marine greased to prevent corrosion -- and more importantly, to be able to remove them for restoration and service down the road.
Fred
Quote from: steelfish on January 16, 2018, 05:30:02 PM
hmm per Alantani post on another thread saying the makaira model SEa didnt needed pre-service, I never did one to my mk-15Sea, but now that you found that on yours, I better take the reel seat screws out and grease them with yamaha grease just to be sure they can be removed down the road.
well I was working on another reel and before going to bed I remembered this pending on my check list (with my personal reels) so, I took my mak15 to check for the reel seat screws.
good thing I was able to take all of them with some effort, as you can see there was a bit of grease on the screw threads the end of the screw was dry and with some whity dust, I dont know if this is somekind of glue or galvanic corrosion (alum and steel), I greased them one by one with plenty of Yamaha grease and crossed that line item from my check list.
Alex, you've spooled that Mak up with some rope ;D
And another one. Not my reel but I know it's never seen saltwater
Sure looks like corrosion. But I'm not so sure. Looks just the same as the others this happened with.
To be honest I've not been comfortable never checking these screws to see if this issue is present & if so taking care of it... Jeff
Thought I would add there was no pitting of the aluminum. It was just a white powder substance... Jeff
If your confident & will be keeping the reel for long. I believe it's worth the effort. A long day or two soak in penetrating oil. Freeze then heat, repeatedly if needed. Doing this prior to any attempt to loosen the screws is most times of benefit... Jeff
In order for galvanic corrosion to occur, there has to be a cathode (stainless steel in this case), anode (aluminum in the case), and an electrolyte solution. The electrolyte we are familiar with is saltwater, but in addition to various salt solutions, acids and alkalines in solution will work as well. Acids are used in the anodizing process and to passivate stainless steel parts. Cleaners and degreasers can contain acids or alkalines. We are all familiar with acid and alkaline batteries. Same chemical process.
These chemicals are probably used on the factory floor with some intentionally applied to (and hopefully removed from) reel parts. If these chemicals get into the places where the dissimilar metals contact, I would think that the galvanic process could start before the reel ever saw saltwater.
I slept through chemistry, so I am having trouble figuring out the quantity and concentration of the the various electrolytes needed to cause visible corrosion. Even though seawater can do this, I suspect that the concentration of salt in solution gets pretty high due to evaporation.
Depending on the quantities required to cause significant galvanic reaction, it might make sense to pay attention to cleaners used during maintenance to avoid accidentally introducing an electrolyte. Any real chemists out there that care to comment?
jurelometer, As usual a good post. Please keep in mind that I'm not saying for sure this is corrosion.....I'm just not sure. It very well could be the thread lock Lock Tite doing it's job. Also I've yet to see any physical pitting or erosion in the aluminum in cases I've had with my Okuma reels & those of others... Jeff
Quote from: Gobi King on January 17, 2018, 02:48:14 PM
Quote from: Reel Beaker on January 17, 2018, 02:33:53 AM
The worst thing a reel manufacturer could do is to try pinching pennies on quality of screws. Anyway, i am gonna oil all my screws once a month. Do you think that is enough considering i fish saltwater 1-2 times a week? Or should i oil them after every session?
So just a little drop on the screw base will do it? wick effect will cause the oil to though the threads?
I have used 3 different methods for my reel bases and reel clamp screws, TSI321 like Bryan, CorrosionX and grease on different reels. All seem to work about the same. But, there were applied after the screws were removed
Now breaking a screw when taking it out of a new reel out is something the manufacture needs to address.
The only head of a screw I have ever buggered up was due to locktight.
This also could be anti gall solution used by the factory during the assembly process.
Not an electrolyte as far as I know but has that white powdery look after it dries.
Best
JT
Quote from: theswimmer on February 02, 2018, 11:40:40 PM
This also could be anti gall solution used by the factory during the assembly process.
Not an electrolyte as far as I know but has that white powdery look after it dries.
Best
JT
if you see my pics (4 posts above) that looks exactly like you described, my thoughs were it was a kind of glue.
now its all greased.
Quote from: steelfish on February 02, 2018, 11:50:26 PM
Quote from: theswimmer on February 02, 2018, 11:40:40 PM
This also could be anti gall solution used by the factory during the assembly process.
Not an electrolyte as far as I know but has that white powdery look after it dries.
Best
JT
if you see my pics (4 posts above) that looks exactly like you described, my thoughs were it was a kind of glue.
now its all greased.
This kind of stuff is very hard to track down.
We had all types of dissimilar metal to metal contact on the race boats.
Boats range from 1/4 mile drag boats to big offshore boats with multiple engines.
The gall solution was used to stop assembly problems because we were always using high speed air tools to put things together.
Most galvanic or corrosion problems were noted after a significant passage of time.
Best
JT
So about to go on a tuna trip and was curious if I was affected by these corroded screws and sure enough...I have the same issue and one even ended up snapping on me. I had an earlier issue with my dog spring, which stayed engaged and now this...
I am a bit disappointed with Okuma and have reached out, I hope they can correct these issues ASAP for such expensive reels.
it looks like they are using some sort of loctite on the screws. with the smaller metric machine screws that okuma has used on their andros reels, i have seen several reel seat screws snap off, either because of corrosion or loctite. i personally haven't see this yet with the makaira line. and yet here we are!
to remove the busted stud, just torch it for 20 seconds. it should come out easily after that. then get four new screws from okuma and grease the threads.
I never remove those screws on my reels. I just add a little Corrosion-X around the gaps and it works its way around the area protecting the base just fine. This is even more critical if the foot is riveted on of course.
I'm convinced what we are seeing here isnt corrosion of any kind. I've looked closely at the threads under magnification & their is no pitting or other things associated with corrosion... Jef
I too think that the locktite they put on the screws is the culprit.
I tried to undo the bottom screws off my MAK SEA 8II and out of 8 screws only 1 came off and the others would not even budge.
I have contacted Okuma and they are sending me new screws. They state if the stuck screw couldn't be removed...we are SOL, as warranty does not cover the frame and advised not do remove any screws.
I do not like dealing with company's that have every excuse in the book why there eqiptment is not covered for this or that, come on stop ripping off people with high prices and LOW responsibility! ??? ::) >:(...........................Joe
This one issue with some Okuma reels. The screws holding the reel foot on the Andros are some of the worse.
I remove these. Drill them out if needed & install helicoils.
In my mind this is one area that needs to be accessed for proper service & long term use in salt water.