With all the knowledge this board posses I thought I would post this issue with the hope of some possible solutions. Yesterday I went to take my 3yr old grandson to his favorite fishing spot (under Bayway Bridge St Pete Beach) to our amazement a sign was posted no fishing on or around the bridge. The sign did not look official so I contacted the local authorities to verify. The county officer checked it out and stated the city posted the sign possibly due to a petition from local neighborhood. So I contact via websites the local papers explaining. I am in the process of starting a petition to reopen area for fishing. Any suggestions on format/wording of petition or other options. Tight lines for generations to come.
Suggest contacting the news in you area and contacting as may fishermen as possible.
Joe
A little research is necessary -- but not hard.
Instead of the he said/she said/rumors/opinions -- go to the local government jurisdiction in person.
You can in many cases determine where and how many folks were involved in this petition -- specific or big area, response by government officials, etc.
Also, a personal visit to your local Council Person, Board of Supervisors elected rep for that area, or whomever has elected responsibility for that specific area.
Check to see if any other statutes were broken by prohibiting fishing there -- such as Department of Fish and Game laws, County Laws -- if so, you may not even need a petition.
There are many "official actions" that are actually illegal -- but until someone becomes concerned about them -- they never see the light of day to be repealed.
Then with some facts -- you can go forward with either a written petition, or online -- or both.
The original petition could have been based on a public safety issue, or just a specific perceived nuisance issue, or even a private concern with clout on a local level (it is many times who one knows, not what is right or wrong).
Was it signed by 10 people, 25, 500, or more?
Was it ever publicized?
Was it in fact, legal?
Then, after determining the support you may or may not have for your position -- you can go forward, or not.
Here are examples that show how to develop a petition. And there are many more online --
http://m.wikihow.com/Write-a-Petition
Good Luck!
Best,
Fred
Interesting.
Update. After a battle with multiple departments. The DOT ordered the City Of St Pete Beach to remove the sign. The DOT stated they owned the right a way and the bridge. Took my grandson fishing there last night and he had a blast. Thanks everyone.
That's great! ;D
Great news. Glad you stood up for your right to fish.
Great! There is another board I follow, StripersOnline.com, that has posted cases like these. Without getting into details, there are laws that protect access to waterways (federal, I think) that local governments try to contradict. Happens in NJ beach communities where resort property owners don't like fisherman hanging around. It always comes down to the fisherman being respectful in terms of managing trash, keeping noise down, and parking well to keep the residents happy. The laws tend to favor access to the water, but one successful recourse that the communities have against the fisherman is to restrict parking to a point where they can't get near the spot. I have never been personally involved, but this is the overall impression I get.
This area tried the parking restrictions also. There are three options on parking: open to all; permit parking; or no parking. The area due to the need to park there own cars chose permit parking. The problem with permit parking is that it does restrict who parks there but only during the hours of 9-5. So they basically created a night time fishing area because permit parking becomes open parking at 5:01 until 8:59 am.
Good job on following through SM --
Many local government agencies try to enact these restrictions -- and if no objections, many times they become enforceable just because no one has challenged the restriction over a set period of time. It becomes an "assumed" ban -- that many times is upheld in Court.
Not everything is black and white in government -- or life.
Jack Bauer on "24" used to always say when confronted with an issue -- we can ask permission, or forgiveness...let's go with forgiveness.
Sounds like when a higher authority challenged the local ban -- they backed down, rather than admit they did not have permission or legal authority to enact the ban.
Be careful and alert -- they will be back...
Best,
Fred
Way to go brother.....glad you got it sorted out. Bill
I wasn't going to share my experience with the members here because it didn't seem to me this was the place for it, But after reading sharkman's post and reading the responses I decided to post my situation.
As some of you my know I have been fishing on a naval pier in NJ for two years as a Disabled American Vet. (DAV). In previous years I fished the same pier with a childhood friend that worked for the government on that post about 35yr's or so.
This year the post commander decided to cut the personnel to those that carry only Tslin ID (100%) Disabled for DAV status cutting all those who are not 100% DAV status out. On top of that he is only letting fisherman on the pier from Fri.-Sunday. Were in the past we could fish weekdays after 16:30 til 0600. and week ends 24 hours.
Hear is a government post excluding all but 100% DAV to fish on a pier that was granted for years. This is our government disrespecting DAV vet's.
I have contacted my local news paper and all but 1 has decided to publish. I have contacted my local Congressman to look in to the situation, but I have been told don't expect much.
I can tell you that when it comes to vets needing help it is a fight getting anyone to listen.
Joe
Good for You Sharkman! ;D
Keep the Faith Joe. Slow and steady wins the race. Don't give up.
Joe --
I would just probably go out there and fish when I wanted to -- if accessible.
Have my hat and Military service card with me -- plus my wife with a video camera, phone, or ipad -- to document them taking you off of the pier -- as this was happening, I would calmly get the exact names and ranks of the military personnel that are enforcing this new ruling -- take the time to ask the exact spelling, ranks, contact information -- as you specifically write it down while being videoed.
Nowadays, what gets attention is video documentation, and facts. When turned over to the media, and the Veterans groups get hold of it -- it will go all of the way to the Pentagon, or higher.
Stay calm, cool, and smart.
Don't threaten, or get rattled -- or say anything you may regret later -- which is nearly everything, as it can be used against your argument later.
Contact media, a veteran's group attorney, your State Senators, as well as others.
It must be more than you by yourself, it must be others who are concerned and do not want the pier shut down. Other veterans.
You could end up getting access 24/7 -- or at least back to what you had before.
Just some ideas...
And this is just what I might do, if there were not other convenient places to fish.
Sometimes you have to pick your battles -- not every one that comes along -- just the ones that are important to you, and others.
And some hills are just not worth dying on. Life is too short to get all bound up in what is right or wrong. So just go slow, if important to you. Planning is everything in any operation.
Best,
Fred
Sorry to hear Joe. I second the media advice.
Well gentleman, as I said I have contacted the media and so far only one responded and I have my Congressman working on it. As far as me going on base, I would not get past the first checkpoint without a pass, and I wouldn't involve Ruth in attempting that. That main checkpoint is about 3/4 mile from the second gate and security, then there is the pier. This is a Naval weapons station and pier for naval ships. It's not as though you can just drive out there and go fishing without proper ID. Of which I had up until this year, but now the post Commander changed all that because he could.
The whole Idea is to cut 80-90% of fishing privileges and that is the bottom line.
I'm not giving up but I don't know anyone who fishes there in the past that has the same situation as I do. When the article runs in the paper Friday we will see if anyone steps up, I'm hopping they will. I've spent a lot of my time doing this and I don't want it to become all consuming. I have a life other then this, don't get me wrong I love fishing as a hobby but it isn't my life. Ruth and I are strongly thinking of buying a boat as soon as our house is sold.
Joe
Please post a link to the article, Joe, if it is available online.
Quote from: Decker on March 22, 2017, 08:55:53 PM
Please post a link to the article, Joe, if it is available online.
It's not coming out till friday. The site is Asbury park press If you can't find it let me know and I'll see if I can attach it here.
Joe II
Yep, Joe --
Fishing is only a small part of what is important in my life also.
Some things are not worth the hassle.
Best,
Fred
Joe
Did you post anything on N.J. Saltwater Fishing?
Mike
Quote from: bluefish69 on March 22, 2017, 11:07:09 PM
Joe
Did you post anything on N.J. Saltwater Fishing?
Mike
No Mike I didn't. I was a member but I stopped going to that sight a while ago. I only know one member Phil Muck and haven't been in touch with him for a year or two.
Joe
Here is the entire article about fishing on the Naval pier
Joe
That's too bad Joe, I hope they change the policy and let you all fish there. I wonder what kind of "burden on security" it could possibly be?
Be nice to read a story someday titled "New area opened to Fisherman".
Here is the online link to the same article: http://www.app.com/story/sports/outdoors/fishing/hook-line-and-sinker/2017/03/23/veteran-says-fishing-rule-navy-pier-excludes-vets/99536786/
Joe; I had that site posted the other day but it has to many popups so I decided to post the actual article on site. The explanation that you read is bogus from the post security person. He stated it was a manning situation because of Ordinance being loaded on the pier, They do not load any munitions on the pier from 16:30-07:00 on weekdays and on week ends there is no loading what so ever. They also cut the fishing times to Friday-Sunday and Holidays, Monday-Thursday there is no fishing at all.
This post Commander is a jerk that wants to keep vets of the pier without due cause because he can.
Joe
And unfortunately being a military installation the laws fall under the UCMJ and under that the base commander can regulate traffic through his gates any way he wants with nobody's approval required.
Ever been on lockdown? In my brief military career of 4 URLs in the USAF alive seen a lot of things done.
Did you know writing on a desk is a federal offence? So is getting a sunburn, it's called destruction of government property.
David; You are right, when it comes to the UCMJ it's a different ball game, but that's were I draw the line. If that post commander wishes to be hard-nosed about this, I can move on because his power is only as good as that one situation and I am not in the navy and I don't have to deal with his chicken S#$%t. As far as my military career goes, I have seen a lot in the four years between 1963-1967 a president assassinated, the Viet Nam War escalate and Libya situation at Wheelus AB. So I know the military and how it worked then.
State side is a different situation all together and I spent my time overseas. Like I said before. I'm not making this my life's ambition, I just brought it up because of the situation that sharkman was posting about. Thanks for all those that were concerned.
Joe
I didn't realize this was Earle.
I spent my two weeks for reserve duty there back in 90 and 91.
My enlistment was called a 3x6.
Three Active, Two reserve and the last was inactive before my Honorable Discharge.
I missed the callback in my contract to Iraq by a few months.
The battle continues. I took grandson and daughter to the area and someone had replaced the 9am-5pm parking to anytime. I knew this was a fake for two reason all D Permit parking in our area is 9-5 and then open parking for the rest of the time also it sticker was off shade of green compared to the rest of the sign. I contacted the local authorities who reviewed sign and they contact parking enforcement. Parking enforcement removed the sticker stating it was illegally placed on the sign. Parking enforcement told the officer is it happens again they will press charges for vandalism.
That is a shame that people are so miserable that they want to spoil others enjoyment ::) :( >:(
Joe