Wow! What a fun resto! I chose this reel out of several similar models to use as a pier reel, it actually beat out some stiff competition. This reel will fish for years and years, and in the long run, be much less expensive that buying a brand new "throw away" reel every season. Working on this reel has been a pleasure...one of the few times I ran into no hiccups. Sure, I started with a reel in fantastic shape, but I've learned that is key to ending up with something top shelf. "Ya can't make silk from a sow's ear"...never were truer words spoken. ;)
This first pic is an eBay photo of the reel I started with. It sure looked unused, but after receiving it I'd say it was just very well cared for.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/843/43073330401_3587e6273a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28Cf5tB)
Upon opening it up, I found out why it was so stiff. Although in this photo it appears to have fresh grease, it was actually so sticky I could lift gears of their posts simply by touching a tool to them. That grease was like glue! The colored arrows show the only three flaws on the reel. The blue arrow points to a busted side plate screw, the red arrow indicates that the anti-reverse lever is backwards, and the green arrow shows that the little red plastic cap is missing from line roller lock nut.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1786/43073999551_33fdeb5c42_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28CivoF)
Here's the body all cleaned up. No shims anywhere, every gear rides directly on a post, and it's smooth as any reel from it's era. Not a single ball bearing either. It has excellent bronze bushings. It took fine craftsmanship to press fit all this to be dead on, some great work here. This reel was built in a time when a pressman did his job with pride.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1785/43073329891_c8ee27f550_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28Cf5jP)
Ready to reassemble, all parts are clean and dry. The gearing is a combination of steel, bronze, and aluminum. This reel has one plastic part...the drag knob. I really like that dealer sticker from the local sporting goods. I bought reels from places like that when I was kid. They're all gone now...we have Lowe's and Wally's...I hate change.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/837/43073329351_1bb8023ffd_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28Cf5av)
To get a free feeling action I used CorrosionX HD on the gear posts, and Super Lube clear on the gear teeth. It's hard to see, but I also brushed the whole inside with Super Lube since I'll be using this reel in saltwater. I cut a screw to replace the busted one, and I slapped a dab of red plastic bait paint on that line roller lock nut
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1803/29200478308_7f1b272a74_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Lum5Sy)
I had intended to replace the leather drags with Penn #6-155s...but after thinking a bit more...I decided to use the leather. I oiled the leather drags like I've heard guys in the know say to do. The drag is very smooth, and I don't know how long that will last, but it will be no trouble to correct. I have a hunch it will be just fine.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/918/29200479548_d9e28a70d0_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Lum6eW)
The end product is one sweet little reel. A fine piece of machinery. I spooled it with 30lb. braid in the hope that wind knots would be less of an event than if I used 20lb. It cast a one ounce weight 100yds., only leaving about 50yds. on the spool...I need the deep spool! This reel has the shallow spool...I may have to go to 20lb. braid to get a few more yards to work with. Can't wait to fish this ol' girl! 8)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/917/42170935755_5e6af347ca_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27fv4Ze)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1770/43075930391_7265945479_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28Ctpn2)
Nice walk through & comments, Mike. Glad you like it. I see NOS spools for those every now & then on da Bay so you should be able to find one.
Looks great sir...
Some of the older reels just dont work well with braid. I hope this ones is fine.
The sticker makes the reel!!
Nice looking reel 8) I never seen a gear arrangement like that
Marc..
Shakespeare sure made some good reels back then. Don't think I've ever seen one of those, must have been made in the late 1950s or early 1960s. Great job! I remember seeing that reel on ebay because of the Shield's sticker.
Are those about the same size as a 2062?
Quote from: festus on June 29, 2018, 02:31:37 AM
Are those about the same size as a 2062?
Yes...they are the same size as the 2062. While I'm thinking about it, does anyone know if the spools will interchange on these two models?
Nice Mo. I really like that vintage sticker on the rotor. That was back in the day when guys probably didn't mind somethin like that on their new reel. I gotta say though, pretty blatant ploy at advertising their store. I put stickers on my reels with line types, sometimes upgrades and dates.
Quote from: mo65 on June 29, 2018, 11:14:40 AM
Quote from: festus on June 29, 2018, 02:31:37 AM
Are those about the same size as a 2062?
Yes...they are the same size as the 2062. While I'm thinking about it, does anyone know if the spools will interchange on these two models?
Yes...........but actually....... NO, Mike, they won't interchange. Same diameter so it will go on the shaft but different height so line won't lay right. The 2065 spool is taller. Here's a couple comparison photos, 2065 (left) & 2062 (right) & one showing the bottom of a deep 2065 spool & the #4827, although that's not the actual number a Shakespeare part box indicates. I don't have a NIB 2065 deep spool so I'm not sure what they used for that part #. A 2070 and 2071 spool will interchange, though, with the 2064 & 2065 reels. They are all exactly the same and have the 4827 # on the bottom of them. I have all those reels I just mentioned and checked all for interchangeability. The last photo shows a 2065 (left) & 2071 (right) for your reference.
Thanks again Tommy...great info...this gives me a few more options for finding a deep spool. 8)
When I first unboxed my 2071 I thought this is an unusually large reel for such a small spool. Then I compared it to a 2062 and noticed the spool was much deeper, but same diameter.
BTW, yesterday I got 4 rough 2062 in the mail mostly for parts, I'm going to build 2 complete reels and save the others for parts as needed.
Mo: Are you the reel service & Repair guy for the area? If not you should be!
Joe
Really nice reel & work.
Frank
Before you pull the trigger and buy a spool, Mike —
Let me look through the old bins of spools.
Recently found a stash of new still in plastic bags and boxes of Shakespeare spools — might be what you need in there.
Tomorrow is an acre or two of weed eating starting early with the DR & Stihl. Then a couple of honey-dos for Sue like digging holes for trees and such.
Might have time to search tomorrow PM or Sunday PM after Church.
Will advise if successful or not on the spools.
Best,
Fred
Just beautiful Mo. If I was an old reel, I would wish to end up at your place.
cheers
Basto
Quote from: Reel 224 on June 29, 2018, 08:58:19 PM
Mo: Are you the reel service & Repair guy for the area? If not you should be!
Hee hee...nope Joe...I'm just a guy who likes to work on his reels.
Quote from: foakes on June 30, 2018, 01:36:22 AM
Before you pull the trigger and buy a spool, Mike -
Let me look through the old bins of spools.
Recently found a stash of new still in plastic bags and boxes of Shakespeare spools — might be what you need in there.
That would be fantastic Fred, as I'm having absolutely no luck finding one. Just let me know how much you want for it.
I'd like to thank everyone for their interest and kind words...all the support keeps me inspired. 8)
Found what you needed in an old bin of Shakes spools, stashed years ago in the storage container, Mike.
PM me your address, and I will drop it in the mail tomorrow.
N/C.
Best Always,
Fred
Good for you, Mike......Well done, Fred! 8)
Quote from: mo65 on June 30, 2018, 01:44:44 PM
Quote from: Reel 224 on June 29, 2018, 08:58:19 PM
Mo: Are you the reel service & Repair guy for the area? If not you should be!
Hee hee...nope Joe...I'm just a guy who likes to work on his reels.
Quote from: foakes on June 30, 2018, 01:36:22 AM
Before you pull the trigger and buy a spool, Mike -
Let me look through the old bins of spools.
Recently found a stash of new still in plastic bags and boxes of Shakespeare spools — might be what you need in there.
Mike: A lot of people are missing out on you talent.
Joe
That would be fantastic Fred, as I'm having absolutely no luck finding one. Just let me know how much you want for it.
I'd like to thank everyone for their interest and kind words...all the support keeps me inspired. 8)
Deep spool on the way tomorrow, Mike —
Splitting timber rounds and piling bark today — at least until noon. After that it will be too hot to work outside doing that kind of chore.
Started early today.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: foakes on July 02, 2018, 03:53:40 PM
Deep spool on the way tomorrow, Mike —
How many times has Fred came to the rescue when I needed a part? I've lost count! Boy I sure hope it's not as hot out there as it is here...too hot to be splitting wood...you are a trooper brother! Just came in from tending a little garden out back, and a few flower beds around the house, I was dripping in 15 minutes. Gonna grab a cold beer and slice this nice home grown tomato. 8)
Nice assist, Fred.
Into hot, humid weather in Minn. too; mowed the lawn this AM & tried to get done early, but got sidetracked. Now, I'm just tuckered out.
Frank
Man, Fred is like the real life reel parts Santa Claus, what a champion :)
Alright Fred!
One great thing bout this time a year is home-growen fruit n vegies. Had onea my wifes tomatoes the other day and it tasted soooo good. Just like when I's a kid.
I put the 2065 on an 8ft. medium action, fast tip Daiwa Emcast surf rod. Probably couldn't assemble a better combo for the price...lotsa "bang for the buck" here. I'll use it to cast plugs and spoons while fishing a hi-low bait rig on the ol' 2091A. 8)
Got the spool from Fred, it's a real nice spool. It had an unused set of stock leather drags in it. I'm going to set those back and put a carbon fiber set greased with Cal's in there. I also swapped out the leather undergear washer for a delrin. It will keep that spool spinning smoothly if a lunker grabs my bait. Thanks a ton Fred, now I have a surf/pier deep spool and a creek/lake shallow spool. 8)
Hi Mo
Not to confuse things, but I just thought it was interesting that Shakespeare kept the word "wonder" for their later made in Japan 2400 series.
I have an old Ambidex reel that was made in England and the company was related to Shakespeare later on and I have seen the 2400 series called "ambidex" also.
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/2400%20shakespeare_zpspuwvovug.png)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/P1050406_zpshpajizzn.jpg)
Yes Basto, they made a lot of "wonder" reels over the years. Sorta reminds one of the "oreno" line from South Bend...Bass-Oreno lures and Cast-Oreno reels. 8)
Wonder Reels Wonderods, Wonderline, Wonder Lures, all in every shape and size.
-steve
Sounds wonderful!
I have this sudden urge to create the ultimate frankenreel...the "Wond-Oreno"...HA! :D ;D 8)
;D ;D ;D
Great post Mike, you have that reel looking great now, you will have to call it a Ohana, shakespear, now, cheers Don.
Quote from: Donnyboat on July 28, 2018, 05:05:40 PM
Great post Mike, you have that reel looking great now, you will have to call it a Ohana, shakespear, now, cheers Don.
Pretty easy to do, Mike, since most SB reels of that time frame were made by Shakespeare. Maybe you could try for an OK-Oreno or True-Oreno-Art automatic fly reel? :)
Opinions?
Just rebuilt another maroon series 2062(EB issue). Heck ofa time with the bail spring and the ar dog installation. Removed the glued grease, added 2 shims. Some use wear on this puppy, but good ta go now!
Which do you like? 2065 or 2062?
Most of the stuff in these 2 seems to be diffrent in design( good pictures Mo).
The 2-2062's I done are my brothers. I really like these old Shaky spinners, would you buy a 2062 ora 2065?
Quote from: Gfish on July 28, 2018, 06:58:05 PM
Which do you like? 2065 or 2062?
I really like these old Shaky spinners, would you buy a 2062 or a 2065?
I like 'em both G...but the 2062 is probably the more fail proof design...just by the fact that it has less going on inside. I doubt either one would fail unless abused. I would buy which ever one presented the best deal. Ah hell...just buy both! 8)
I installed a new EVA knob on this reel's handle...man oh man...best $5 I've ever spent! 8)
I've been waiting patiently going on a year and finally found a deal good enough to pounce on. This one should be here late in the week. Looks to be good shape and has both the low and higher capacity spool. From Mo's pics, these look unique, a design not seen every day.
You'll love it Chester!
I got my 2065 in the mail today and now understand why everyone says they're one of Shakespeare's best. It only weighs 11.3 oz but has the spool capacity of the bigger Royal Maroon 2071.
Got a problem. This oscillating plate doesn't want to come off. I removed the c-clips and tried prying it off with a screwdriver, also tried lifting it off with pliers, but it won't budge. Is there a trick I don't know about to remove it? Looks like there is still something holding it here where I've pointed the arrow.
Looking at Michael's pics at the beginning of this thread, there should be no obstructions. Stubbornest thing I've seen to date. I've already scratched it a couple times and afraid if I keep forcing it, it will bend. ???
Quote from: festus on May 02, 2019, 04:33:31 PM
Looking at Michael's pics at the beginning of this thread, there should be no obstructions. Stubbornest thing I've seen to date. I've already scratched it a couple times and afraid if I keep forcing it, it will bend. ???
I've been staring at those pics too Chester...it's not making sense. Maybe the post has a bur or two on it? It should slide right off.
Maybe so. It's too good of a reel to booger and scratch all the innards, I'm just going to wipe it down inside and add some Superlube. Came very smooth as it was.
It needs to come "straight up", Chester.
There is nothing holding it except 50 years...
My approach on these is to just get some Baling Wire — then go under both parts of the oscillation plate — feed the wire up through a hole drilled in a piece of 1 X 2 wood that rests on the edges of the casing.
Then just use a large screwdriver to gently pry upwards the plate. It also helps to jiggle the handle as you do this operation. This relieves any angle binding.
The plate will come right off very easily.
From experience, I can attest, the worst thing to do is pry against the gears or casing with just one screwdriver. The stud will either come off, or the case will be distorted — and that does spoil your day...
Best,
Fred
Quote from: foakes on May 02, 2019, 04:45:18 PM
It needs to come "straight up", Chester.
There is nothing holding it except 50 years...
My approach on these is to just get some Baling Wire — then go under both parts of the oscillation plate — feed the wire up through a hole drilled in a piece of 1 X 2 wood that rests on the edges of the casing.
Then just use a large screwdriver to gently pry upwards the plate. It also helps to jiggle the handle as you do this operation. This relieves any angle binding.
The plate will come right off very easily.
From experience, I can attest, the worst thing to do is pry against the gears or casing with just one screwdriver. The stud will either come off, or the case will be distorted — and that does spoil your day...
Best,
Fred
Thanks, Fred, I'll remember your advice save the project for another day. Tried using two screwdriver,s at the beginning, it didn't help. Already got it back together and it's running smoother since I removed the old peanut buttery grease and gave it some new.
This reel is cleaner than any of my later Shakespeares. Runs as smooth as those made later with bearings. Not bad for 11 bucks plus shipping.
Only other thing that didn't function was the click on one of the spools. There was a spring out of place.
Chester,
Getting every part out and thoroughly cleansed is nearly a must, especially on those older innards that haven't seen the light of day for two or three decades. There are a lot of parts behind that oscillation arm that could use a little TLC. You can put a little vinegar on the post/washer connection and let it sit overnight. Vinegar is great at dissolving metal to metal corrosion. You'll be amazed at how well it works, and what seemed impossible all of a sudden becomes fairly easy.
As I was ready to spool line on this reel, it froze. Took the side plate off and this screw that holds the axle was loose. Don't know think that was causing the oscillating plate trouble, but it came right off.
Not telling you what to do, Chester —
However, there is a lot of cleaning yet to do on that great old reel —
The insides should be as clean and shine as well as the outside — and with new grease.
If it is done right — it will likely never need to be broken apart in yours or my lifetimes — except to maybe do a little touch-up service after a heavy season.
As an excellent Reelsmith, You already know all of this — this is just for others who may not realize the importance of never having to look back after restoring a solid old quality reel.
Best,
Fred
Yep, now I have that plate taken off, I can go about my business. Don't know if that loose screw was binding something, but it'll get as good a cleaning as all the others.
Quote from: festus on May 02, 2019, 05:06:27 PM
This reel runs as smooth as those made later with bearings.
Yep...possibly smoother! They must be quality oilite bearings(bushings) used in these reels. I think the pinion acts as it's
own bushing. You'll never miss the rattle cages in this reel.
I think the most amazing part about these is the silence of the drivetrain. Not silent by modern standards...but by the Mitch 300s it's built like...it's
worlds above! Turn the AR off on a 300...damn thing still buzzes like a bee. Turn the AR off on the 2065 and you'll wonder how they did this with NO shims on the gears! 8)
Mo65, got any idea where these two washers go? ??? I was very careful disassembling this reel, taking pictures of everything. When I took the rotor, main body, and side plate to the sink to give them a good scrubbing with Dawn, the two washers appeared out of thin air. :o I could have sworn David Copperfield was in the house. :-X They must have came from the main body. ???
Looking at Michael's pic at the beginning of the thread, I do believe these are them thar warshers.
There are 4 washers, 2-X2T & 2-X2S, Chester. X2T (thrust) & 2-X2S (shim) between the rotor & body. X2T goes next to the rotor & X2S behind it against the body. There is also a X2S (shim) in front inside against the rotor, then a X2T (thrust) between the X2S & X33 bail trip plate. Then the lock washer and nut.
BTW ???, you didn't take the bail apart to clean the spring, plate & housing. ;D
Quote from: Midway Tommy on May 03, 2019, 01:05:59 AM
There are 4 washers, 2-X2T & 2-X2S, Chester. X2T (thrust) & 2-X2S (shim) between the rotor & body. X2T goes next to the rotor & X2S behind it against the body. There is also a X2S (shim) in front inside against the rotor, then a X2T (thrust) between the X2S & X33 bail trip plate. Then the lock washer and nut.
BTW ???, you didn't take the bail apart to clean the spring, plate & housing. ;D
Then this reel is missing either one washer or one shim, because there were a total of three washers/shims. I have three in place, but the reel is functioning like it should regardless.
Tommy, no joke, this reel is so clean on the outside there really isn't any point in taking the bail pieces apart. It would probably be considered NIB if it had a box.
BTW, what year did these 2065 appear on the market, in the 1950s or 1960s?
Quote from: festus on May 03, 2019, 02:07:43 AM
Then this reel is missing either one washer or one shim, because there were a total of three washers/shims. I have three in place, but the reel is functioning like it should regardless.
Tommy, no joke, this reel is so clean on the outside there really isn't any point in taking the bail pieces apart. It would probably be considered NIB if it had a box.
BTW, what year did these 2065 appear on the market, in the 1950s or 1960s?
The one missing in the rotor probably doesn't make much difference as long as the bail trips correctly.
"QL" 1960. They started manufacture in '59, introduced in '60 and were discontinued in '64.
I just returned from VA Beach and testing of this 2065 on the pier. It cast great and cranked smooth as silk, but it had no lifting power. If it had any weight at all on the end of the line, it lost all torque. I thought something was amiss, but after looking it over I'm more inclined to believe it's just the design. My brother's 2062(with a simple worm drive design) didn't suffer this problem at all. With power being transferred through so many gears, I'm wondering if that's where the problem lies? Any suggestions would be appreciated. The photo below shows what I mean by "so many gears". I should add that they are still smooth feeling under load, there is just no power. :-\
Quote from: mo65 on May 25, 2019, 09:42:17 PM
I just returned from VA Beach and testing of this 2065 on the pier. It cast great and cranked smooth as silk, but it had no lifting power. If it had any weight at all on the end of the line, it lost all torque. I thought something was amiss, but after looking it over I'm more inclined to believe it's just the design. My brother's 2062(with a simple worm drive design) didn't suffer this problem at all. I should add that they are still smooth feeling under load, there is just no power. :-\
As for power, the way the old timers overcame this was by using the strength of the rod to develop power through a pump and crank technique.
The reel was just mostly a unit to retrieve line.
However, given power vs. torque — I will go for torque all day.
That is why you will only see journeymen carpenters using worm-drive skillsaws — not Black & Deckers with no worm drive.
The physics of a worm-drive gear in a spinner — coupled to a traditional design main gear are well proven for performance and longevity.
Many Shakespeares, DAM Quicks, ABU/Zebco Cardinal's, Alcedo's, and Penn's all use a worm-drive system of gearing. It is much more efficient — as well as developing superior torque.
Good testing, Mike!
Best,
Fred
Mike, find a rod the length of your choice & line class for this reel. One thing, this is important make sure it has a very fast tip. This is hard to impossible to find on spinning rods for reels this size. What a fast taper rod will do is allow you to make the most out of the pull & reel down technique that I use & described by Fred.
I have found bass rods for bait casters re-wrapped for a spinning reel work best for this. If you decide to go this route & have a rod that you think might work but it's not built for a spinner send it to me & I'll set it up right for you. I've rods being built for Darin in Florida on my lathe now & a couple of others in line waiting. Price couldn't be beat & you'd be happy with my work. Just let me know... Jeff
Quote from: foakes on May 26, 2019, 12:36:53 AM
As for power, the way the old timers overcame this was by using the strength of the rod to develop power through a pump and crank technique.
The reel was just mostly a unit to retrieve line.
This is true Fred, and I've always been one to remind folks of it when fighting a fish. The problem is...this pier situation...it goes against the norm. The reel is forced to wind the line
up the pier, out of the water, with
all the weight on the drive train. Large fish are brought up by a dropper net, but little roundheads and croakers are just cranked up. Even just the terminal tackle(3oz. sinker on hi/low rig) makes the 2065 grunt, while the 2062 never breaks a sweat. We fished 'em side by side. I struggled to just wind my rigging up while my brother's 2062 easily brought up doubles! As a side note, my 2091A(also worm drive) could crank a small car up the pier.
The 2065 is still a fantastic reel...just not a pier reel. I'll probably bass/crappie fish it, maybe use it for river sauger, or just retire it to the shelf, as it is in great condition. 8)
Quote from: Rivverrat on May 26, 2019, 01:01:52 AM
I have found bass rods for bait casters re-wrapped for a spinning reel work best for this. If you decide to go this route & have a rod that you think might work but it's not built for a spinner send it to me & I'll set it up right for you.
Thanks for that offer Jeff, and if I decide to go that route I'll give you a holler. 8)
Hi Fred. I enjoy reading your replies. Ever think of compiling them into a book "The Fishing Tackle Wisdom of Fred"? -Stan
Quote from: mo65 on May 26, 2019, 01:43:52 PM
Quote from: foakes on May 26, 2019, 12:36:53 AM
As for power, the way the old timers overcame this was by using the strength of the rod to develop power through a pump and crank technique.
The reel was just mostly a unit to retrieve line.
This is true Fred, and I've always been one to remind folks of it when fighting a fish. The problem is...this pier situation...it goes against the norm. The reel is forced to wind the line up the pier, out of the water, with all the weight on the drive train.
Yeah, I knew you already had this all figured out, Mike —
Just pointed it out for others who may not know the differences in reel engineering.
Pier fishing does present its challenges.
Best,
Fred
On another note I've not ever understood the dominance of the spinner on the piers. I see a lot of cases where people are using 20 line & greater. Plenty of conventional style reels will work very well for this with out over working a mechanically handicapped reel. If limited to a spinner on a pier personally I would go big & use a 270 & pack spools with different weight line & mount on a 2 pc. 9' - 10' rod.
Just speaking my thoughts out loud.... I could be wrong... Jeff
Quote from: Rivverrat on May 26, 2019, 06:50:38 PM
On another note I've not ever understood the dominance of the spinner on the piers.
I've wondered about that myself Jeff. You'll see a few guys fishing baitcasters like the Abu Ambassaduers, and even on occasion a conventional, but for the most part it is spinners. I'm sure it's just for user convenience...spinners are just easier for the masses to use. ..especially in such close proximity. I'm still undecided on which is best for me. I'm having very good success with my Penn Mag 10 so far, and I saw one ol' dude doing very well with a pair of Zebco 808s!
Interesting discussion. My wife and I always use conventional reels when on the charter boat we use, which has a relatively high rail.
One trip we decided to take a couple spin reels. This did not work and was very uncomfortable and awkward for both of us.
I realised later that the 9500ss Penn that I used actually weighs more than my 113h.
I don't have a use for very large spinners as I don't throw large poppers and the like to big fish. We just bottom fish and troll from this boat.
My biggest spinner now is a 750ss that I use for beach and rock fishing.
The charter boat has some very long handled gaffs.
A 5mt leader of 80lb can enable the use of your hands to pull up fish of about 20lbs from the surface also.
Greg
Quote from: foakes on May 26, 2019, 04:14:23 PM
Just pointed it out for others who may not know the differences in reel engineering.
I feel like I should add something here also...as I don't want folks to think we're saying the worm drive reels are the
only reels that will perform the pier task. I saw a few fishermen using Mitchell 302s and 306s. They seemed to be working very well and although they aren't a worm drive design, they are still a
simple design, just a main spinning a rotor mounted pinion. I'm thinking that's the 2065's weakness, all those gears. It's looking like simplicity is the key.
Quote from: mo65 on May 25, 2019, 09:42:17 PM
I just returned from VA Beach and testing of this 2065 on the pier. It cast great and cranked smooth as silk, but it had no lifting power. If it had any weight at all on the end of the line, it lost all torque. I thought something was amiss, but after looking it over I'm more inclined to believe it's just the design. My brother's 2062(with a simple worm drive design) didn't suffer this problem at all. With power being transferred through so many gears, I'm wondering if that's where the problem lies? Any suggestions would be appreciated. The photo below shows what I mean by "so many gears". I should add that they are still smooth feeling under load, there is just no power. :-\
Dude, it's all in the wrist action ;) I used a 300 and 304 pier fishing for years. We would never expect the reel to be able to crank a croaker up over the rail. You had to reel the fish up alongside the pier, point the rod at the fish while leaning over the rail and taking up the slack, finger the spool to keep the drag from slipping, and sling it over the rail in one motion using the rod flex to give it that sling-shot effect. Either that or set the rod down and hand-line it up. The later would be the sign of a greenhorn or someone who really, really wants that fish. A long rod helps a lot.
-steve
Never pier fished but my imagination likens it to bridge fishing, which I avoid at all costs. ::) Heck, I'm lucky if I can hoist a fish up over the side of the 16' Lund in my avatar without it flopping off. ;D Now LMB, Green Carp as they're referred to here in Nebraska, are a completely different story. A few of us hope they flop off before ever making over the edge of the boat. :D
Quote from: mo65 on May 26, 2019, 09:07:04 PM
...I'm thinking that's the 2065's weakness, all those gears. It's looking like simplicity is the key. [/color]
in my humble, uneducated, tinkerer's opinion:
I think it's the small, thin, straight teeth on the main & 1st/top transfer gear
no significant loss of smoothness or longevity/durability, but sucks for power
there aren't really 2 transfer gears, engaged w/ each other
it's one 2-part interlocking transfer gear, that switches the type of teeth
(cost cutting and/or an inferior system for higher gear ratio)
if the transfer gear were 1-pc. & all the gears were cut the same w/ big slanted teeth,
it would have a lower ratio & same power as the normal "in-plane" worm drives, IMO
Quote from: philaroman on May 29, 2019, 03:29:29 AM
in my humble, uneducated, tinkerer's opinion:
I think it's the small, thin, straight teeth on the main & 1st/top transfer gear
no significant loss of smoothness or longevity/durability, but sucks for power
there aren't really 2 transfer gears, engaged w/ each other
it's one 2-part interlocking transfer gear, that switches the type of teeth
(cost cutting and/or an inferior system for higher gear ratio)
if the transfer gear were 1-pc. & all the gears were cut the same w/ big slanted teeth,
it would have a lower ratio & same power as the normal "in-plane" worm drives, IMO
Exactly! That's just what I was seeing, the small straight teeth on the main and the transfer gear most likely are hurting the torque. I've noticed the larger 2068 didn't use this labyrinth of gears. Probably explains why it was manufactured longer than the 2065. Probably also explains why the more simply designed 2062 showed up.
At any rate, the 2065 is a hell of a nice reel when used properly.(i.e. not cranking fish up a pier.) An interesting side note: I tested a few reels by dragging a 6oz. sinker across the lawn...looking for one that had good torque. Would you believe the winner was that Zebco 940 XL? Yeah...the one I just gave a "B" rating! Just like I said in that thread, even second string players get in the game sometimes. 8)
Just no substitute for testing.
Digressing back a little to the dominance of spinners on the piers. I'm on the west coast. I use to think it was simply because the majority of the pier fishers got their gear at Wally World...which may be partially true for many of them. I had an awakening last summer. I friend invited me to pier fish with him at night. I grabbed a couple Ambassadeurs and headed out. Everyone was casting out away from the pier and I learned I can't cast for beans at night because I can't see my rig in the dark sky. If I waited until I heard it hit the water it was too late to shut it down with my thumb. After a couple epic bird nests I just started counting to four or five then shutting it down with my thumb. It was cutting into my casting distance but I avoided the bird nests after that. I've since picked up a couple of spinners and I can just cast away and enjoy life without bird nests.
-Mike
Quote from: PacRat on July 24, 2019, 06:07:40 AM
Digressing back a little to the dominance of spinners on the piers. I'm on the west coast. I use to think it was simply because the majority of the pier fishers got their gear at Wally World...which may be partially true for many of them. I had an awakening last summer. I friend invited me to pier fish with him at night. I grabbed a couple Ambassadeurs and headed out. Everyone was casting out away from the pier and I learned I can't cast for beans at night because I can't see my rig in the dark sky. If I waited until I heard it hit the water it was too late to shut it down with my thumb. After a couple epic bird nests I just started counting to four or five then shutting it down with my thumb. It was cutting into my casting distance but I avoided the bird nests after that. I've since picked up a couple of spinners and I can just cast away and enjoy life without bird nests.
-Mike
RIGHT!
Counting to five is a long cast for me. I'm usually a four. I don't fish at night but often fish into the glare of the sun and my eyesight is not that great. I can't usually see the lure in flight. The reels brakes (centrifugal or magnets) are set so that I couldn't backlash it if I wanted to except when casting into the wind. There is a little sliding indicator knot that should just come off the spool at the end of the cast and let me know that things are about normal. But, above all else, I think it is the growl or whirl of the reel that tells me when the cast is done.
Every once in a while I'll use a spinner just to refresh my memory. It only takes five minutes.
-steve
Really don't have anything constructive to add to this discussion.....but.....I've had this unique & neat old 2065 Salesman Sample on my "to do list" in a parts bag sitting around waiting for a handle. I finally picked up a mint broken legged parts reel a couple of weeks ago that had a nice handle so I decided to put this little gem together for display. I didn't see any use in showing all the parts or do a tutorial since Mike and Chester have already done a really good job covering that aspect. I just thought some of you might find this rare little example interesting.
Here's a couple of shots of the body & rotor without any parts and showing the viewing holes.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/17004_10_11_19_10_02_26_303041558.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/17004_10_11_19_10_02_27_30304949.jpeg)
The next photos were taken after I finished putting it together.
Here's a shot from the handle side. The opening in side of the body allows viewing the anti-reverse dog & ratchet gear and the main gear meshing with the helical pinion gear. The opening in the rotor allows viewing the bail trip action and also how the click dog interacts with the click gear on the main shaft. The spool is cut to view the drag stack so it can be seen in action. The base of the spool is notched for easier viewing of the click dog & click gear interaction. There is also an opening on the back, i.e. bottom, of the body for viewing nearly all the moving internal parts including the oscillation of the main shaft and interaction of the main drive train, i.e. the rotor pinion gear, helical gear, helical pinion gear and main drive gear.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/17004_10_11_19_10_02_32_30306769.jpeg)
Here's an angle shot that shows the bottom of the click gear.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/17004_10_11_19_10_02_32_30306627.jpeg)
Here's a shot from the opposite that shows the opening that allows viewing operation of the main gear, level wind transfer oscillation pinion, oscillation gear and oscillation arm. It shows the click gear through the opening in the rotor, too, and the drag stack in the spool cutout.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/17004_10_11_19_10_02_34_303082106.jpeg)
There aren't many of these unique salesman samples around any more. While we can all open up a reel watch different aspects of it work and imagine how all the aspects work together it's kind of neat to actually watch them all work in unison. 8)
Oh, and BTW, the handle knob is not dirty ??? , it must be photo glare because in real time it looks like brand spanking new. ;D
Edit:.... I decided I should post a shot of the opening on the back that shows most of the internal gearing, so here it is. :)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/17004_11_11_19_10_36_30_30312712.jpeg)
That's pretty neat!!
Thanks for posting this Tom, I love those ol' salesman cut away reels. This one even shows the drag stack. 8)
I decided to take a shot of the opening on the back that shows most of the internal gearing. I went ahead and added it to the original post, too.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/17004_11_11_19_10_36_30_30312712.jpeg)
That is really cool Tommy!
I love cutaways of anything mechanical!!
Agree !! That cut away is a super cool thing... well to most of us reel nerds... Jeff