I know I have posted about this in the past,but it still irks me. The latest reels I have serviced,were ones with brass gears,conventionals. For whatever reason,they seem to push the grease out to the edge of the gear when I put new grease,,Yamalube cut with Corrosion X. The gear appears to hold such a fine coat of grease it's almost not visible. The first few reels I tried to service had cast zinc type gears,well the main was anyway. Point is,the cast gear seemed to hold on to the grease much better. I thought that maybe it was the mineral spirits I was using to degrease was causing it not to stick as well,so I tried GUNK brake cleaner this time,,and a follow up with hot soapy water and dawn. The results seem to be the same,looks like it just pushes the grease out to the edge,leaving what appears to be nothing in the mid section of the gear. Any thoughts on this?
Imo, there's no need to excessively pack each tooth with grease to the point you can't visually make out the tooth depth. It only migrates away when forced to mate with the pinion gear. I often see bands of excessive grease thrown within the drives side plate masking drainage holes so if water ever intruded inside, it cannot seep out, e.g...
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/2907_22_05_18_3_57_49_24526411.jpeg)
I personally like to brush a thin film of m/grease in between all gear teeth with a designated brush to both main and pinion gear. I do like to keep the inner bore of the p/gear grease free and lightly oiled to help retain good free spool qualities to fixed axle spools...
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/2907_22_05_18_3_53_35_245241862.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/2907_22_05_18_3_53_35_245241712.jpeg)
HTH, Steve
Quote from: Fish-aholic on May 22, 2018, 11:14:24 PM
Imo, there's no need to excessively pack each tooth with grease to the point you can't visually make out the tooth depth. It only migrates away when forced to mate with the pinion gear. I often see bands of excessive grease thrown within the drives side plate masking drainage holes so if water ever intruded inside, it cannot seep out, e.g...
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/2907_22_05_18_3_57_49_24526411.jpeg)
I personally like to brush a thin film of m/grease in between all gear teeth with a designated brush to both main and pinion gear. I do like to keep the inner bore of the p/gear grease free and lightly oiled to help retain good free spool qualities to fixed axle spools...
In my
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/2907_22_05_18_3_53_35_245241862.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/2907_22_05_18_3_53_35_245241712.jpeg)
HTH, Steve
Well I definitely do not overgrease,,,anymore. When I first came on the board I definitely put too much,but quickly realized it didn't pay for more than one reason. I do apply it just as you described,,and I use TSI321 inside the pinion gear. I guess it just bothers me that I can't see it well. Thanks Steve
I'm still learning about these things, so here are my novice thoughts: I particularly noticed how Yamaha grease gets pushed aside by the gear mesh, leaving at least, I assume, an invisible microscopic coating --but smoother when mixed it with CorrosionX. When I started mixing TSI321 with Yamaha and applying less, it worked well, but the TSI seemed to liquefy the Yamaha grease. After reading more about TSI I started using pure TSI321 on gear teeth and so far like it the best of anything I've tried. I apply modest amount TSI with a small soft artists brush into the gear teeth and any other moving parts or surfaces that need lubing or protection. I guess time (and/or failure :() will tell how well it works, but the dozen or so reels I've gone back and relubed with it are super smooth.
There is some good info on the TSI website about this. It certainly sounded impressive and convincing to me:
TSI321: http://www.tsi301.com/tsi321moreinfo.htm
TSI301: http://www.tsi301.com/main.htm
My name is Wayne,
And I am an over-greaser!
Quote from: wfjord on May 22, 2018, 11:57:25 PM
I'm still learning about these things, so here are my novice thoughts: I particularly noticed how Yamaha grease gets pushed aside by the gear mesh, leaving at least, I assume, an invisible microscopic coating --but smoother when mixed it with CorrosionX. When I started mixing TSI321 with Yamaha and applying less, it worked well, but the TSI seemed to liquefy the Yamaha grease. After reading more about TSI I started using pure TSI321 on gear teeth and so far like it the best of anything I've tried. I apply modest amount TSI with a small soft artists brush into the gear teeth and any other moving parts or surfaces that need lubing or protection. I guess time (and/or failure :() will tell how well it works, but the dozen or so reels I've gone back and relubed with it are super smooth.
There is some good info on the TSI website about this. It certainly sounded impressive and convincing to me:
TSI321: http://www.tsi301.com/tsi321moreinfo.htm
TSI301: http://www.tsi301.com/main.htm
Who knows,maybe I need to try a different grease,maybe I'll buy a small tube of the Penn Precision Lube.
The cast metal gears are rough and hold grease better. All you need for grease is a thin film.
Quote from: wfjord on May 22, 2018, 11:57:25 PM
I'm still learning about these things, so here are my novice thoughts: I particularly noticed how Yamaha grease gets pushed aside by the gear mesh, leaving at least, I assume, an invisible microscopic coating --but smoother when mixed it with CorrosionX. When I started mixing TSI321 with Yamaha and applying less, it worked well, but the TSI seemed to liquefy the Yamaha grease. After reading more about TSI I started using pure TSI321 on gear teeth and so far like it the best of anything I've tried. I apply modest amount TSI with a small soft artists brush into the gear teeth and any other moving parts or surfaces that need lubing or protection. I guess time (and/or failure :() will tell how well it works, but the dozen or so reels I've gone back and relubed with it are super smooth.
There is some good info on the TSI website about this. It certainly sounded impressive and convincing to me:
TSI321: http://www.tsi301.com/tsi321moreinfo.htm
TSI301: http://www.tsi301.com/main.htm
Just TSI alone huh? Keep us informed on this,love to see the results.
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on May 23, 2018, 05:54:36 PM
Quote from: wfjord on May 22, 2018, 11:57:25 PM
I'm still learning about these things, so here are my novice thoughts: I particularly noticed how Yamaha grease gets pushed aside by the gear mesh, leaving at least, I assume, an invisible microscopic coating --but smoother when mixed it with CorrosionX. When I started mixing TSI321 with Yamaha and applying less, it worked well, but the TSI seemed to liquefy the Yamaha grease. After reading more about TSI I started using pure TSI321 on gear teeth and so far like it the best of anything I've tried. I apply modest amount TSI with a small soft artists brush into the gear teeth and any other moving parts or surfaces that need lubing or protection. I guess time (and/or failure :() will tell how well it works, but the dozen or so reels I've gone back and relubed with it are super smooth.
There is some good info on the TSI website about this. It certainly sounded impressive and convincing to me:
TSI321: http://www.tsi301.com/tsi321moreinfo.htm
TSI301: http://www.tsi301.com/main.htm
Just TSI alone huh? Keep us informed on this,love to see the results.
Thus far I've got it on about eight of my baitcasters, a Penn mag 10, a squidder, two old 109s, and several old spinfishers. Also lubed any contact areas on the spool & spool shaft on the baitcasters & conventionals, and all critical areas of the levelwind assembly. So far no gear noise and the revolving spool reels are casting & cranking better than ever.
Quote from: wfjord on May 23, 2018, 06:53:57 PM
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on May 23, 2018, 05:54:36 PM
Quote from: wfjord on May 22, 2018, 11:57:25 PM
I'm still learning about these things, so here are my novice thoughts: I particularly noticed how Yamaha grease gets pushed aside by the gear mesh, leaving at least, I assume, an invisible microscopic coating --but smoother when mixed it with CorrosionX. When I started mixing TSI321 with Yamaha and applying less, it worked well, but the TSI seemed to liquefy the Yamaha grease. After reading more about TSI I started using pure TSI321 on gear teeth and so far like it the best of anything I've tried. I apply modest amount TSI with a small soft artists brush into the gear teeth and any other moving parts or surfaces that need lubing or protection. I guess time (and/or failure :() will tell how well it works, but the dozen or so reels I've gone back and relubed with it are super smooth.
Very interesting.
There is some good info on the TSI website about this. It certainly sounded impressive and convincing to me:
TSI321: http://www.tsi301.com/tsi321moreinfo.htm
TSI301: http://www.tsi301.com/main.htm
Just TSI alone huh? Keep us informed on this,love to see the results.
Thus far I've got it on about eight of my baitcasters, a Penn mag 10, a squidder, two old 109s, and several old spinfishers. Also lubed any contact areas on the spool & spool shaft on the baitcasters & conventionals, and all critical areas of the levelwind assembly. So far no gear noise and the revolving spool reels are casting & cranking better than ever.
To remove the cleaning fluid I use I just wash the parts in hot water and a blow dry. A 15 second job. The parts are in a SS colander and the hot water is in a Tupperware bowl in my mop sink. Drop the colander in and shake it about :D
If you take apart any type of reel the grease will look gone on the gears. I do not cut the Yamaha grease with anything using it on conventional reels.
Excessive grease was about the only reason why I ever experienced an AR dog not engaging immediately.
It's a horrible feeling when you pull a fish, retrieve line and then the AR dog does not engage as it should and the reel goes into free spool for a few seconds.
You guys have caused me to try and think. Always trouble. So, what are we trying to accomplish when we grease gears? I know we use grease generally to protect surfaces from water,and a lubricant of some sort to reduce friction in bearings.But the actual meshing surfaces of the teeth transmit power. As noted, grease is squeezed out-rejected- by the mating surfaces,but I'm wondering if any kind of slippery in the teeth is a bad thing,causing sliding forces where they shouldn't be. Which is worse-friction from dry tooth surfaces with full power transmission or the friction from slippery tooth surfaces as a result of the power transmission? In other words,what's most sensible-grease all surfaces and let the teeth decide how much grease to keep? Grease all but the teeth,and film them with a liquid/spray like corrosion-x? Or -can't be right- run 'em with dry teeth? Or does any of it make a difference? Who thinks what?
I grease the gear teeth like shown above. It works fine for me and can reduce gear noise especially with stainless gears.
Quote from: fogbound on June 02, 2018, 05:06:25 PM
You guys have caused me to try and think. Always trouble. So, what are we trying to accomplish when we grease gears? I know we use grease generally to protect surfaces from water,and a lubricant of some sort to reduce friction in bearings.But the actual meshing surfaces of the teeth transmit power. As noted, grease is squeezed out-rejected- by the mating surfaces,but I'm wondering if any kind of slippery in the teeth is a bad thing,causing sliding forces where they shouldn't be. Which is worse-friction from dry tooth surfaces with full power transmission or the friction from slippery tooth surfaces as a result of the power transmission? In other words,what's most sensible-grease all surfaces and let the teeth decide how much grease to keep? Grease all but the teeth,and film them with a liquid/spray like corrosion-x? Or -can't be right- run 'em with dry teeth? Or does any of it make a difference? Who thinks what?
Would you drain the oil from a transfer case on a truck axle and run it dry? No. A fishing reel does not have a case to hold the oil or lubricant around the gears, grease/oil/lubricant does more than just corrosion control. It also aids the smooth contact of metal surfaces as they mate reducing metal on metal wear reducing excess friction and reducing excess temperatures.
Quote from: rippin_lips on June 04, 2018, 05:19:55 PM
Quote from: fogbound on June 02, 2018, 05:06:25 PM
You guys have caused me to try and think. Always trouble. So, what are we trying to accomplish when we grease gears? I know we use grease generally to protect surfaces from water,and a lubricant of some sort to reduce friction in bearings.But the actual meshing surfaces of the teeth transmit power. As noted, grease is squeezed out-rejected- by the mating surfaces,but I'm wondering if any kind of slippery in the teeth is a bad thing,causing sliding forces where they shouldn't be. Which is worse-friction from dry tooth surfaces with full power transmission or the friction from slippery tooth surfaces as a result of the power transmission? In other words,what's most sensible-grease all surfaces and let the teeth decide how much grease to keep? Grease all but the teeth,and film them with a liquid/spray like corrosion-x? Or -can't be right- run 'em with dry teeth? Or does any of it make a difference? Who thinks what?
Would you drain the oil from a transfer case on a truck axle and run it dry? No. A fishing reel does not have a case to hold the oil or lubricant around the gears, grease/oil/lubricant does more than just corrosion control. It also aids the smooth contact of metal surfaces as they mate reducing metal on metal wear reducing excess friction and reducing excess temperatures.
^^^This!
Gear teeth have a specific curved shape (search on this site or elsewhere for involute gear) to enable a constant even transmission of power. The teeth surfaces "roll" across each other in a manner similar to plain bearings. So the reason to lubricate is the same as any other rolling surface. Think of a gear tooth as the love-child of a bearing and a lever.
As for TSI 301, the folks here that do a lot of reels really like the stuff for situations like spool bearings where the additional friction from grease viscocity would hurt casting performance. As is typical for lubricants targeting the consumer market, The TSI web site is short on technical information, providing some successful use cases (mostly guns) but no real guidance on when the product should/should not be used.
Thin-film lubricants like TSI 301 have been around for decades, but it doesn't seem that they are wiping out the market for greases. I would guess that thin film lubricants work better when the surfaces are more consistent and the load is lower. Big giant gears on heavy machinery probably need a thicker film to "level out" high spots and create a more consistent surface interface. Where fishing reel gears fit on this spectrum, I dunno. But the odds probably get better as the reels get smaller.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on June 04, 2018, 06:02:05 PM
Thin-film lubricants like TSI 301 have been around for decades, but it doesn't seem that they are wiping out the market for greases. I would guess that thin film lubricants work better when the surfaces are more consistent and the load is lower. Big giant gears on heavy machinery probably need a thicker film to "level out" high spots and create a more consistent surface interface. Where fishing reel gears fit on this spectrum, I dunno. But the odds probably get better as the reels get smaller.
-J
Good point about the odds probably getting better as the reels get smaller.
All in all, the TSI321, as mentioned, works exceptionally well as a gear lube in my baitcasters and smaller conventional reels. For my larger spinning & conventionals I think I'm contented to stay with the Yamaha blue/CorrosionX mixture, at least on the gears ---but experimentation is part of the fun!
In regards to gear teeth, apparently TSI works better or worse depending on the reel:
My old Mitchell spinners all have a small degree of audible gear noise which may be due to the three steel (or aluminum??) gears meshing in the reel --all were lubed with a Yamaha/CorrosionX mixture earlier this year. Two days ago I disassembled one of the 300s, cleaned out all the grease and relubed it completely with TSI321. The result was that the gear noise was much worse, so I cleaned all the internals again and re-lubed with Yamaha/CorrosionX to get it back to "normal."
I think of that grease that is squished out of the gear teeth as being a grease reservoir that can be pulled back into the gears when things heat up a little. Don't know how much that really happens though.
I know what you mean about TSI (and also Reel-X) oil making gear noise. Gear noise can be disconcerting, but you have to wonder if noise equals wear. If you cover up the noise, do you really reduce the wear or do you just cover up the wear?
One thing about using only oil and no grease is the reel is easier to clean. Splash a little solvent on it and the oil is gone. Grease takes longer to dissolve and scrub away. Picking the blue grease out of the corners and then slapping new blue grease on everything when finished cleaning feels like busy work. Dig a hole and then fill it back up again.
-steve
yeah, sometimes i'll clean out a "marginal" bearing, lube it with TSI 301, put it back in the reel and then have the bearing echo all through the reel. it's a great lubricant, but TSI 301 and TSI 321 will not help you hide any defects. :-\