I just installed a delrin washer for under the gear and one on top of the drag stack.(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/upgrades%20for%20others/008_zpsec8ea468.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/upgrades%20for%20others/008_zpsec8ea468.jpg.html)
The hex gear is not as I got it from Alan, I made the corners sharpen and it wasn't easy.
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/upgrades%20for%20others/006_zps19e0dc05.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/upgrades%20for%20others/006_zps19e0dc05.jpg.html)
The metal keyed are 1.60mm, the laminated hex shape carbon fiber washers are 1.25mm and the delrin .84mm
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/upgrades%20for%20others/014_zpsc47c5bf7.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/upgrades%20for%20others/014_zpsc47c5bf7.jpg.html)
This reel is very smooth and produces lots of drag. Even though it only has 4 carbon fiber washers, 7 surfaces are working with this combination.
Give it a shot, you might like it, the delrin washers on top and under the gear will also work on standard gears.
Looks Good Sal! ;) I have a wide I need to work on with those same gears. I will try the double up on it.
That is an interesting set up.
Very interesting, what is the longevity of Delrin? I have had 3x carbon fiber washers below the main gear flatten out, most likely from me cranking the drag down too hard, but if this does not happen with Delrin it may be worth a try?
Why do you prefer Delrin over the washer that Penn provides?
Quote from: CapeFish on August 19, 2014, 06:53:43 AM
Very interesting, what is the longevity of Delrin? I have had 3x carbon fiber washers below the main gear flatten out, most likely from me cranking the drag down too hard, but if this does not happen with Delrin it may be worth a try?
I don't know, but I would tell you that it will definitely last longer than a carbon fiber washer.
Here is some info on Delrin:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#8574kac/=tcgvpp
My main reason for using this product is smoothness, I believe the washer for under the main gear should act as a bearing instead of creating additional friction.
Quote from: VW on August 19, 2014, 08:25:45 AM
Why do you prefer Delrin over the washer that Penn provides?
Smoothness and toughness. Penn might be using the same, but I'm not sure, the black plastic washers that I've tested from them snap when folded. I did run into a reel or two with a plastic washer that didn't do that, but not sure if it was Delrin.
If you are comparing the Delrin to their red fiber washers, the Delrin are much tougher and smoother.
I can vouh for certain that delrin on top of the stack makes the star wheel crank in sooo muh smoother, especially when you start getting some real pressure on the stack. Under the gear seems to make the operation a tad smoother, but any time there is any spike in drag, the line could snap, so while it may not increase max drag, it will add to longevity.
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 19, 2014, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: VW on August 19, 2014, 08:25:45 AM
Why do you prefer Delrin over the washer that Penn provides?
Smoothness and toughness. Penn might be using the same, but I'm not sure, the black plastic washers that I've tested from them snap when folded. I did run into a reel or two with a plastic washer that didn't do that, but not sure if it was Delrin.
If you are comparing the Delrin to their red fiber washers, the Delrin are much tougher and smoother.
Do you use Teflon grease also?
This is hard to get in New Zealand Too!!
I am going to get some stuff shipped from The USA soon
Be sending You"s a list
Cheers Jon
Is Delrin similar to rulon? Also what will happen if all the washers were delrin?
Is that rod clamp Home made?
Quote from: CapeFish on August 21, 2014, 06:50:50 AM
Is Delrin similar to rulon? Also what will happen if all the washers were delrin?
I had to look that one up, I had no idea of how many combination of plastics are available:
http://www.emcoplastics.com/materials/
To me Rulon appears to have the same characteristics as Delrin. If you check under coefficient of friction, this material has very low numbers under stress, that would make it the perfect material to use as a bearing for under the gear, it would help the drags work smoother when under tension. I'm also liking putting one above the stack.
We are all well aware that as of now, greased carbon fiber washers are the best material you could use for drags, I'm not changing that idea, I'm simply don't believe that the washer for under the gear should be a carbon fiber washer, it should act as a bearing.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on August 21, 2014, 01:42:35 PM
Is that rod clamp Home made?
Yep!
Thanks Alto, really appreciate all the effort you guys put into research and new tweeks.
Quote from: crackerman on August 19, 2014, 06:54:35 PM
I can vouh for certain that delrin on top of the stack makes the star wheel crank in sooo muh smoother, especially when you start getting some real pressure on the stack. Under the gear seems to make the operation a tad smoother, but any time there is any spike in drag, the line could snap, so while it may not increase max drag, it will add to longevity.
I find this very interesting and may try it. I can't do the bottom delrin due to 4 stack Newell drags but the top is an option.
For those of you struggling to find a source for Delrin - try searching for Acetal.
"Delrin is DuPont's trade name for acetal homopolymer. Acetal is the name generally used in the plastics industry to refer to acetal copolymer. Both are known as POMs.
Homopolymers are polymers that contain only a single type of subunit in their chain and copolymers are polymers containing a mixture of more than one type of subunit in their chain.
They each have their advantages and disadvantages." But the differences are small.
For use in a fishing reel I don't think we would find any difference between them.
In the UK thin delrin sheet is hard to find. Acetal is plentiful :)
I just opened the reel back up to make sure the delrin was doing good under stress at high drag setting. Prior to the test, I placed the delring right under the Belleville and one under the gear.
The reel was very smooth, I pushed it to 48lbs and the line snapped twice on me by the knot, at the same setting, that was good enough for me, so I stopped.
I was amazed to see how softly and smoothly the reel got from 0 to 25lbs with no effort turning the star. The rest of the way the reel remained smooth, obviously harder to turn the star, but still very manageable.
The delrin didn't show any mars at all, we will still need to see how it holds up on the long run, but I personally don't have any doubts.
There has been some talks on the size of the delrin for under the gear, I wish I knew how to take a short video to let you guys hear and see how these dogs are engaging
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/002_zps5e8e2e9e.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/002_zps5e8e2e9e.jpg.html)
As I previously mentioned, a larger washer, approximately 1/8" from the gear teeth would be best for most reels, the dogs like it very much.
We've created a nice reel here, taking everything in consideration, this one will be hard to beat with hat's available today.
I love my older Penn reels, but this one is one of my favorite...enjoy it!
Sal
Sal
My only comment on the size of the Delrin washer is that when I cut one too small on the OD it would crack. When I increased the OD no more cracks. I have settled on a size just smaller than a Newell 300 drag washer which works great for me.
Dwight
I haven't experienced cracking yet, but I punch mine out as a solid washer and cut the ID using a dremel.
I cut the larger washers with scissors, I will then drill a center hole with the dremel and while the bit is stock in it, I spin it on high speed on a stone. They come out nice and round.
I believe I mentioned this earlier on another post, the delrin material was recommended to me by Aaron ( Reelspeed).
We were having a conversation a while back on what type of bearing to use for under the gear. I tried a roller bearing and it did a good job as well, but the prep to install it and maintenance would have been too much. As for a delrin washer, you set it in place and forget about it, no need for grease, but if you get some on, it'll be just fine.
You know I punch both OD and ID at one time and that causes the crack on one side when making them too small. No need to make them small anyway.
I had problems with acetal and carbon fibre washers cracking when I punched them. It only happened with small washers (as you said). I was using a leather punch set and nylon cutting board for support. Punching the od first then the id would crack 50% of washers (very wasteful) :(. Punching the id first then the od was much more successful (10% failure rate on small washers - just more difficult to centre the od punch). Swapping the nylon board for an end grain chopping board virtually cured the problem (BUT you wouldn't want to prepare food on it after cutting cf) ;) I guess the wood is more supportive - less flexing.
I could have these waterjet cut to any size fairly cheaply, if there is enough interest.
We are working on it.
As Newell Nut mentioned and as you would see from my post above, there is no need for you to make them small .A sharp tool and how you do it has a lot to do with the results, I could dish out a few dozen in a couple of minutes using my punch, but as I mentioned, mine are solid.
I cut the ID afterward, using a dremel, the reason I cut my own is because I do a lot of experimenting with sizes.
Lee mentioned that these could be cut with a water cutter, another member mentioned that he's cutting his with a laser, but he's always too busy, so I doubt he'll be cutting for others.
Also, Dawn mentioned that she has these already cut in stock at a reasonable price.
I don't have any issues cutting them as I do, but if Dawn would offer these in odd size that I'm looking for, I would go that way.
I like mine oversized, to me it's helping the dogs as well.
No rules here, use whatever works best for you.
Sal
Sorry guys, we replied at the same time. It doesn't matter who cuts them or offers them, as long as we get them. We're in it together ;).
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 01, 2014, 04:17:24 PM
Also, Dawn mentioned that she has these already cut in stock at a reasonable price.
That's great, I'd like to buy some, but I just checked her site and I don't see them listed... ???
~
A~
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 01, 2014, 04:17:24 PM.....Also, Dawn mentioned that she has these already cut in stock at a reasonable price.
This makes it a lot easier.
I think Dawn has these available -- just not on the website yet --
Toll Free: (888) 206-4656
Email us at: info@smoothdrag.com
When I have a moment I'll post all the measurement of what I've got.
Dawn
I just finished punching a bunch of Delron washers for 9/0s, and 12/0s. No problems with cracking either way so far. My tools are sharp but I'm punching OD then punching ID.
Looking forward to getting my hands on some delrin stock large enough to cut them on a lathe.
Either way, thanks for doing the groundwork on this Sal. Can't wait to get these into my build.
Hey Sal, I was waiting for you to notice the typo in the subject line. Dominick
I wonder if solid Delron top hats would be a good option...just a thought. Might be better to 'keep it simple stupid'?
Ha ha! Ok I'll change the e to an a, how's that? ;)
It appears that it didn't confuse many, and that's a good thing.
Hey, I speak a little Spanish, I know how to break reels and I'm fluent in Italian. How much more do I need to know, I should be able to get away with a misspelled word every now and then.
Thanks for pointing that out comba', I appreciate it.
By the way, I'm sending you a piece of delrin, do you need me to make the washers or are you able to cut your own? Just in case I need to make them, let me know for which reel.
I told you I need top and bottom for the tank. You remember the tank I hope. If not go here http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.0 ;D ;D ;D Dominick
DuPont manufactures more than thirty grades of Delrin.
Which one du u use for washers?
Here you go:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#2638T24
haha
if not go here haha
good one dom! ;D
Quote from: wallacewt on September 02, 2014, 11:21:44 PM
haha
if not go here haha
good one dom! ;D
Wallace, I am glad you enjoyed that. It's good to see my humor (humour) :D appreciated. Dominick
Alright,
I'm probably going to regret this, but I don't get it? ???
Also, what is the typo? I don't get that either. Easy on the Big Words Dominick. :D
QuoteIt's good to see my humor (humour) :D appreciated.
Your excellent spelling is also appreciated Dominick ;) ;D
Daron
Delrin
Derlin
Darlin
Jaws anniversary Today Mr Shark
DA DA DA DA DA DA DA DA :o :o
:D
Have found a source for 1.0mm sheet here in New Zealand will this be ok or too thick?
hi jonnou
look for tight weave and laminated
easiest answer is to measure the thickness of the ones you are replacing
thats the safest way,but not necessarly the best
depends on the reel
cheers
Stock Penn HT-100's are around 1.30. I use 1.20 in all my reels, including the 114H. You could probably get away with using 1.0, but you are going to have to take up that extra space. A Six stack maybe.
Quote from: jonnou on September 04, 2014, 08:39:34 AM
Have found a source for 1.0mm sheet here in New Zealand will this be ok or too thick?
Delrin? 1.0mm=.039", that will work for under washers.
DOH! :-\ I thought he was talking Drags. :D
thanks lee
Daron and Wallace Already got the Cf washers sorted but interested in thicker / lamanated have been using .76 and .50
from downriggers in Australia
Have to cut one for a triton 50w
You have thicker ones Wallace?
how much did you need
i could send you a bit of mind for free if you
only had 1 reel to do
For larger delrin washers I was using scissors to cut them and sand the rough spots down, I did not have a large enough bit to punch them out.
I then thought about using one of my diamond dust coated hole saw and sure enough it did a great job.
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/003_zps9c9884cb.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/custom%20parts%20for%20fishing%20reel/003_zps9c9884cb.jpg.html)
The stock 4-117/118 is 1 3/8" fiber washer, the 4-116 is 1 1/4". The ones that I made are 1 1/2" and should work on the larger reels, from the 10/0 to 16/0.
Diamond Dust, Huh? I'm Impressed! ;)
Diamond cutters are for hard material, and will clog quickly with plastic. You'll be better off with a Home Depot hole saw than those bits in delrin.
Plastic is soft, but it takes exceptionally sharp tools to cut cleanly. You don't need super hard abrasives like carbide or diamond, you just need quality steel with a sharp edge.
Quote from: Three se7ens on September 07, 2014, 04:46:54 AM
Diamond cutters are for hard material, and will clog quickly with plastic. You'll be better off with a Home Depot hole saw than those bits in delrin.
Plastic is soft, but it takes exceptionally sharp tools to cut cleanly. You don't need super hard abrasives like carbide or diamond, you just need quality steel with a sharp edge.
Yes Adam, I know what to use Diamond coated bits for, I've been doing masonry and carpentry for over 40 years ;D.
As stated above, I was cutting the larger washers with scissors, I knew I had these bits in the truck so I decided to give it a go. As you could see from the pics, they did a good job, no melting of the material or clogging anywhere. The bits are coated with fine diamond dust, I use those on ceramic tiles and have never chipped a tile, but had helpers do so. I tell them all the time, make the tool do the cutting, but you do need to know how to handle this one, it doesn't have a starting bit.
I know I've already showed this, here is what they recommend for machining delrin, HSS bits:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#8574kac/=tm7lm5
I'm not telling anyone to go out and purchase a diamond coated bit for cutting plastic, will I still use one? absolutely. ;D
I wouldn't need many of these large size washers, I made a dozen and that should be enough for now. Anything under 1 1/4", I have bits for that I could just punch out.
The rough edge you see on the washers is just saw dust, it comes right off.
Again, Dawn has these already cut, but you might not be able to find the washer for the top of the stack, I like mine to be just a little smaller than the metal keyed washer, maybe 1/16".
I will always use what I have till I get what I need and try not to stuff it
Couldnt change if I tried ;) ;)
A knowledgeable member here is thinking that maybe Delrin might not hold up, due to the heat build up, generated from long fish runs with the drags set tight.
He believes that Rulon might be a better choice, from reading about it, I also believe the same. Unfortunately for us, Rulon is just too expensive.
Delrin max operating temp is 180 degrees F, and melts at 350. Rulon max operating temp 500-600.
I did a little test on my own using MAP gas and a temperature gun, sent to me by Bob (Cone), thanks again Bob, that gun is coming handy ;). The Delrin stayed intact at up to 200 degree and started to get soft and shiny at 240 degree, but still holding shape. At 340 degree it got really soft and lost its shape. My tests are not accurate as the tests they do in the lob, but surprisingly, my numbers were very close to theirs.
I personally believe that the Delrin would do fine, but it needs to be tested on the water or on the beach from Daron ;). I don't believe the smaller reels would need to be tested, maybe from the 4/0 and up, so we could find out for sure.
This is all new, time will tell.
I do know for sure that Delrin makes the reel much smoother, a smoother reel generates less heat... we'll see.
Sal
Teflon is rated at up to 500 degrees, and has very low friction.
Just finished reading a bunch about the different Rulon types. The lowest coefficient of friction is the Type J.
RULON J is an all-polymeric reinforced
PTFE compound that operates
satisfactorily against soft mating
surfaces such as 316 stainless, aluminum,
mild steel, and frequently, other plastics.
The unique "shaft kindliness" of RULON J
is in addition to the expected attributes
of low friction and wear, self-lubrication
and long life.
In fact, RULON J has the lowest
coefficient of friction of any available
reinforced PTFE. This makes it ideally
suited for start/stop applications where
stick-slip must be eliminated.
Adam, I was using virgin Teflon before I came to this site and was told that it wasn't good. I can't recall the reason :-\.
Map gas gets really hot, I tried to burn a Teflon washer this evening and couldn't do it. I got the heat up to 400 degree and still wasn't able. that washer had no effect to heat, it would turn clear, but always go back to white. It might be good for heat resistance, but might not be as good as a delrin when really squeezed down. a delrin washer will still rotate under lots of pressure.
Keep in mind, we don't know that the delrin might not work, lets find out first. I already know that it's making the drags really smooth. I already caught fish with them, but as I mentioned above, we need a big fish to take it for a ride.
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 15, 2014, 02:36:20 AM
Adam, I was using virgin Teflon before I came to this site and was told that it wasn't good. I can't recall the reason :-\.
Map gas gets really hot, I tried to burn a Teflon washer this evening and couldn't do it. I got the heat up to 400 degree and still wasn't able. that washer had no effect to heat, it would turn clear, but always go back to white. It might be good for heat resistance, but might not be as good as a delrin when really squeezed down. a delrin washer will still rotate under lots of pressure.
Keep in mind, we don't know that the delrin might not work, lets find out first. I already know that it's making the drags really smooth. I already caught fish with them, but as I mentioned above, we need a big fish to take it for a ride.
Teflon can cold flow under pressure, so I think the real question is whether the heat or the pressure is the bigger issue here. That being said, I think either would work in all but extreme circumstances
Quote from: Newell Nut on September 15, 2014, 02:31:37 AM
Just finished reading a bunch about the different Rulon types. The lowest coefficient of friction is the Type J.
RULON J is an all-polymeric reinforced
PTFE compound that operates
satisfactorily against soft mating
surfaces such as 316 stainless, aluminum,
mild steel, and frequently, other plastics.
The unique "shaft kindliness" of RULON J
is in addition to the expected attributes
of low friction and wear, self-lubrication
and long life.
In fact, RULON J has the lowest
coefficient of friction of any available
reinforced PTFE. This makes it ideally
suited for start/stop applications where
stick-slip must be eliminated.
Dwight, too bad it's so darn expensive :-\
The same member that mentioned Rulon to me has caught many fish, he has those for drag and require very little to none for maintenance.
Where can you buy it in small quantities? What is the price?
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-ptfe-sheets/=tq70sg
Check out the glass filled Teflon. It's comparable to rulon AR
Let's give Delrin a chance, if Penn uses it in their reels, it has to be good. I'm sure they sell hundreds of reel daily :-\.
To me, up to this point, Delrin has been impressive and I'm not ready to give up on it just. Let's fish with it and take it from there.
I'm trying to confirm that the washer that Penn uses for under the gear is indeed Delrin.
I contacted a few people and they were all very kind, but didn't have my answer.
They directed me to Pure Fishing Service Manager Tom Blecker, I contacted Mr. Blecker about two weeks ago, but have not received an answer as of yet.
I'm sure at Pure Fishing they're aware that if a customer requests some information on material used on their fishing reels, they would need to answer.
I believe Mr. Blecker might just be too busy at the moment :-\.
Again, all I'm trying to find out is if the washer that Penn uses for under to gear is Delrin.
If anyone could help out with this needed information, please do so.
Thanks!
Sal
I was just thinking ???
the control for this experement needs to be the original Fibre washer
If it has a better resistance to heat and has a history of failure (due to heat) then the product is not suitable
Or if it has less resistance to heat and no history of failure(due to heat) then product is suitable at least to the previous heat tolerences of the original ect
then the same on c/f
would be sad to see it fail on a big fish :( (not that I think it will)
Suggest you hook a young boy on a Bicycle on a long street and repeat ;) :D ;D
I am not suggesting you have not thought of this
like I said Just thinking
cheers Jon
I need to put some Delrin in my 12 and 14/0 with Tom's sleeves before I head out Friday. Hopefully I can take a Big Shark for a Ride and put this Delrin to the Test. I know one descent shark that can pull the drag on a 12/0 destroys a CF undergear. It will still be there, but distorted and chewed up at full lockdown.
Have fun putting that delrin to the test with a whopper just look out for Nuke subs! ;D
Just out of curiosity, what happens to the delrin when it wears? ...does it crack/tear or same as the CF's wear?
Dom
I Dunno?
Daron
Just do what I do and tighten the drag so they can't take you for a ride. Flex those biceps on those guys and show them who's boss.
Daron
any experiment needs a control
catch a 12 footer on a Delrin
then catch a 14 footer on a CF
adjust
by
0.02 to the dozen
them we will have the answer
Good luck Bud
Jon
Quote from: broadway on September 16, 2014, 04:07:22 PM
Have fun putting that delrin to the test with a whopper just look out for Nuke subs! ;D
Just out of curiosity, what happens to the delrin when it wears? ...does it crack/tear or same as the CF's wear?
Dom
For this application (Penn drag stack thrust washers), there should not be any contact abrasive enough to cause it to grind down and throw off particles. If exposed to UV light or certain chemicals (chlorine?) for a very long time it can loose impact strength and crack. It would look like other degraded plastics that you have seen. This would be unlikely to happen inside of a reel.
The potential damage I would not expect but still look out for would be dents caused by the gear sleeve teeth digging in when the sleeve is flexed and overheating from an extended run at high drag setting causing deformation (i.e. "all squished out" :)) .
Re: Rulon or the the similar PTFE/fiber combo mentioned: It is a bit slicker and will run at a higher heat than delrin/acetal, but I would expect it to not be as hard - it is rated using a softer Rockwelll scale -I could not find a direct comparison. It would probably work better as a thrust bearing in normal circumstances, but denting/gouging may be a problem for rulon in this application if it is too soft.
Aren't the stock undergear washers pretty hard when new? Mine were all hard but also very old.
-Jurelometer
Dave,
Thanks for the explanation... makes sense.
The answer to your question about the hardness of the under gear washer is... the CF designated for under the gear isn't hard at all... they don't have the fiberglass(?) reinforcement. They're pretty much 1-ply if ya know what I mean. ;)
I'm pretty sure Sal uses the same size CF under the gear as in the stack, but I could be wrong. That one has the fiberglass sandwiched between the CF.
Thanks
Dom
Quote from: broadway on September 18, 2014, 04:40:06 AM
Dave,
Thanks for the explanation... makes sense.
The answer to your question about the hardness of the under gear washer is... the CF designated for under the gear isn't hard at all... they don't have the fiberglass(?) reinforcement. They're pretty much 1-ply if ya know what I mean. ;)
I'm pretty sure Sal uses the same size CF under the gear as in the stack, but I could be wrong. That one has the fiberglass sandwiched between the CF.
Thanks
Dom
Hi Dom,
I was referring to the stock Penn under- gear washer (part no 4-349), not the aftermarket carbon fiber drag washers used as a replacement. Are you referring to the original or aftermarket?
I was curious about how hard a fresh original one is, especially compared to delrin.
I think the old plastic type washers for under the gear are stiffer than the delrin but way more fragile.
Dom
Sal,
I've just got hold of some Delrin washers from Dawn for my 114s and 113Hs.
On the 114s I had to trim the washers down with some scissors and emery paper as they came up too big in the o/s diameter.
My 114s (old school metal bar versions) are running with a six carbon disc drag. Goes like this;
carbon 1,keyed, carbon2, eared, carbon3 ,keyed, carbon4, eared, carbon5, keyed, carbon6 , keyed.
I also don't have a Belleville. On top of the last keyed washer is a top hat with a felt ring, then a spacer, thick washer, drag star, thin washer, handle.
Should the delrin washer go on top of the last eared washer? At the moment I've replaced the carbon6 with a delrin
I seem remember reading somewhere that anything above the top keyed washer doesn't increase drag???
Should I replace the top two keyed washers and last carbon disc with a simple spacer (I have plenty of thick washers from the old school drags).
Is it worth replacing the 'top hat with felt thingy' with a Belleville?? or can this be left alone? ( I secretly quite like it)
All three 114s set up as above give 22-25lb drag which is more than enough for my needs by a country mile, but I wonder if im getting the full benefit of the delrins.
That is correct Jeff, anything above the last keyed washer is just a spacer. I would replace that top hat with the felt, with the type that comes with the 114h, but you will need to remove a couple of washers. If you're happy with the way its working at the moment, let it go. The last washer under the top hat should be a delrin.
About that last comment that you made, you will need to be the judge of that, use it and let us know how its working out.
I finally got around to installing the delrin washers you (Sal) so kindly sent me to put on my narrowed 114h with a 5 stack. I also got a chance to test them out on a good sized black drum. They worked great, the drag was as smooth as a baby's butt. Now I am looking for some for my 600h and maybe even for my spinfishers if it would work on a spinner too. Thanks again, Henry
Nice fish Henry, how big was it?
I didn't weigh it but I am guessing around 40 lbs. The only problem is that they get parasites when they get this size. The best size for filets is around 10 lbs. This one took over half a spool before I got him turned the first time. Then we pulled the anchor and let him pull us around a bit before landing him. They are plentiful around the bridges here in Charlotte Harbor. We use whole blue crabs for bait.
The Delrin that we've been using has been working nicely, but like everything else, there is always room for improvements.
Here is the latest:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/002-26.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/002-26.jpg.html)
They're not cheap, but considering the quantities, it isn't bad:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#2636T23
The piece shown above was sent to me from Aaron ( Reel Speed ) he wanted me to try it out, he's been using it on all of his reels that he services and swears by them.
Do any of you recognize these custom bushings?
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/003-29.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/003-29.jpg.html)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/006-17.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/006-17.jpg.html)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/007-17.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/007-17.jpg.html)
That's right, same material used by Carl Newell .
Sal
The impact strength is rated as poor. I wonder how it will hold up?
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on December 27, 2014, 10:53:05 PM
The impact strength is rated as poor. I wonder how it will hold up?
These don't take impact force, they take sliding friction. You want a material that has high enough tensile not to squish when the drag is applied and slick enough to be a good bearing. This is why the pure teflons/rulons are not great...they tend to squish when you apply drag.
Delrin is an excellent very durable material that is pretty much gorilla proof. Great idea Alto.
Yes, sir... Looks to be the same as my long cast bushings from Newell. I haven't tried them because I use my 112h's for trolling most of the time... are they any good?
Thanks, Sal.
Dom
Quote from: broadway on December 28, 2014, 03:53:00 AM
Yes, sir... Looks to be the same as my long cast bushings from Newell. I haven't tried them because I use my 112h's for trolling most of the time... are they any good?
Thanks, Sal.
Dom
Anything he made was good ;). Yes, those are great.
You guys are skipping ::), since this post is about Delrin and 114h, do you see that golden frame in the background? ;D
Do Tell. ;)
Good to know! I just ordered up some delrin so I will wait while you handle some more R&D and report back how it goes ;D
I saw the Gold frame and was wondering what it was!
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on December 28, 2014, 06:41:41 AM
Good to know! I just ordered up some delrin so I will wait while you handle some more R&D and report back how it goes ;D
I saw the Gold frame and was wondering what it was!
There might not be a need for me to check these, he has sold hundreds of kits and not one came back.
Today I felt like a kid in the candy store, I received a couple of unexpected boxes in the mail ;D. Thanks again guys, you know who you are. ;)
Aaron had these frames made a while back he found this one in a box in his shop and decided to let me have it. He said I would put it to good use and that I would appreciate it the most, sorry guys, but he might be right on that one ;D.
The craftsmanship is amazing, the only thing is that they didn't come with harness lugs. I already have a few ideas for it, but I'm leaving this one as is, I like it and it makes it unique.
Here are some pics:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/002-27.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/002-27.jpg.html)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/004-27.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/004-27.jpg.html)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/005-18.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/005-18.jpg.html)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/006-18.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/006-18.jpg.html)
I couldn't believe I was able to find a nice spool for it ;D
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/010-15.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/010-15.jpg.html)
Dan at reelygone is checking if he could scrape up some accurate bearings and screws, if not, I'll use Penn's.
I will post some more pics when fully assembled.
Sal
WOW! :o :o You have all the connections! A one piece frame and side plate is a very solid build. That definitely is going to be a one of a kind reel! Fully modded with all the great upgrades now available that Gold beast will beat anything in its class! You have to make a whole new thread for that one! I dont think I would double dog this one though. ;)
Yes this is one of the best 114H I've ever seen ;), it will be very hard to beat when all done.
I hope Aaron doesn't mind me showing it here. I was too excited and wanted to share with friends.
Aaron was a member here, I asked him why he doesn't show up anymore and he said he's way too busy, he will try to do so in the future when he gets caught up with his projects.
I believe he is too busy, he sends me a message a year, but they're always good ones ;D.
Last year I was trying to find a bearing to sit under the gear and I did, but it was just too thick, Aaran contacted me and said to try the Delrin. I'm thinking he is watching us...as the rest of the world does, I just wish he was here with us.
That man is a great mechanic and an inventor, we could all benefit from him, the Delrin was his idea.
We were on the same page on the washer for under the gear, that it should act as a bearing and not a friction washer.
So just yesterday I received this box that I didn't know anything about and besides that gorgeous golden frame there was a piece of the new Delrin with a note that said, try this, it's doing much better.
I sent him a message to thank him, he did mention that he only uses it under the gear, I still say that I also like it on top...we'll see if there is any difference as we move along.
Sal
Now that is a thing of beauty! Aaron does do great work and is a huge asset to our site, but being as busy as he is the customer service is rough... I wish his creations were more readily available :-\
Were those frames ever offered to the public or here on this site? Cant believe I missed them if they were. :'(
Awesome work,
Dom
Quote from: broadway on December 29, 2014, 12:26:57 AM
Now that is a thing of beauty! Aaron does do great work and is a huge asset to our site, but being as busy as he is the customer service is rough... I wish his creations were more readily available :-\
Were those frames ever offered to the public or here on this site? Cant believe I missed them if they were. :'(
Awesome work,
Dom
Dom, I don't believe these were offered to the public, his friend made a run of them a while back for personal use, Aaron took some, but I'm not sure if he has any left. I think he said he found this one in the shop, so don't believe he has anymore.
This kit will make a beast of a reel, a Super Tank ;)
Sal
Uber Tank ;)
QuoteThey're not cheap, but considering the quantities, it isn't bad:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#2636T23
The piece shown above was sent to me from Aaron ( Reel Speed ) he wanted me to try it out, he's been using it on all of his reels that he services and swears by them.
Hey Sal, I was looking at these. I prefer the 0.020 thickness which is about 0.5mm. The delrin we have been using holds up well even in this thin form. Do you think this material will be fine? The washer you are showing in the pic im guessing is the 0.031" right?
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on December 29, 2014, 12:39:44 PM
Hey Sal, I was looking at these. I prefer the 0.020 thickness which is about 0.5mm. The delrin we have been using holds up well even in this thin form. Do you think this material will be fine? The washer you are showing in the pic im guessing is the 0.031" right?
Yes, the Delrin in the pic is .031". I'will be getting the .031" and the .020". Both were recommended to me. I will try the .020 first.
Sal
Thank You Sal! I'm using this material on the bottom of the gear and on top of the stack as Sal has shown us. Very very smooth! lots and lots of drag stopping power. can't wait till March.