There is clearly something I'm failing to understand. Namely why are these awesome looking rods so affordable compared to other categories of spinning rods? Like I cant get a 7' lamiglas blank for under $120 but i can get a 11' lamiglas ultralight rod for $110 shipped? And why have I never seen this category of reasonably priced rod at a tackle shop in FL? I'm sure the quick answer is "we don't have steelheads or salmon here."
Well yeah, i know. But is there something about this category of rod that makes it so hyper specialized that it can't be used for other types of fishing where one would seek a longer ultralight rod to cast light lures stupid far? What am I missing here?
I don`t want to start a"snow " storm , but when i was a little boy fishing rod did not have labels .
Go to the local store , shake and bend some cheap poles , then the expensive ones .
Look at the guide trains ............
as I understand, Lami outsourced their low-end to China...
not same animal as their US-made high-end, but OK
you're actually paying a mark-up for Lami name, but it's less of a crap-shoot
you can find same PRC quality, cheaper
personally, I'm a fan of Salm/SH rods & Carp rods as light Surf options, or longer Inshore
Quote from: oldmanjoe on February 04, 2021, 04:00:10 PM
I don`t want to start a"snow " storm , but when i was a little boy fishing rod did not have labels .
Go to the local store , shake and bend some cheap poles , then the expensive ones .
Look at the guide trains ............
Sorta my point. A rod is a rod. Specs are specs. How you use it is up to you. It seems like the physical location of the sellers for such rods are all in the Midwest or further, like these rods are only readily available in places that have steelheads or salmon. When i don't see why this wouldn't be awesome for long distance bass or far away redfish or many other species that live more than 50yds from shore. And the naming convention chosen seems to be the reason why they aren't sold here, and now I'm just plain annoyed.
Quote from: philaroman on February 04, 2021, 04:35:25 PM
as I understand, Lami outsourced their low-end to China...
not same animal as their US-made high-end, but OK
you're actually paying a mark-up for Lami name, but it's less of a crap-shoot
you can find same PRC quality, cheaper
personally, I'm a fan of Salm/SH rods & Carp rods as light Surf options, or longer Inshore
I just used that one as an example, but that does explain a lot. there's lots of options in the $40-$80 range from other companies. And now I want one.
"Screw you, cat tails and other shoreline vegetation! I'll fish right over you!"
:o You might want to check out thrift shops , Salvation army stores and yard sales .
Some dead guy`s wife is selling all his 5 dollar rods !!!!
Quote from: oldmanjoe on February 04, 2021, 06:21:43 PM
:o You might want to check out thrift shops , Salvation army stores and yard sales .
Some dead guy`s wife is selling all his 5 dollar rods !!!!
My secret technique is to search CL for misspellings. I've picked up a few cheap "diawa" and "peen" reels, including one 6500SSV I got for less than i paid to spool it. They couldnt figure out why their post got no action. So being the only one to respond they took my lowball offer. But for real, at any given time if there's 30 daiwa listings there's probably 12 "diawa" listings. none of which know the true value of their items.
It works on EBay too! At least once for me, anyway.
I got a custom, almost new, "Calstor" 760M (a "troller" with AFTCO rollers) for $89. The builder had written the make and model in script. The lister had inherited the rod from her late father. She had no idea what to ask for the rod since there were no matches on the spelling. She listed it for $89 to start, but had received no activity over the Thanksgiving Holiday period. I had offered the asking price and she accepted it.
The old salmon/SH rods I have seen are very slow action, with flex down to the handle. A lot of folks want fast action rods these days, with flex mostly in the tip and a stiff handle/butt area. I think that explains a lot as to why they are not popular these days, except for S/SH anglers using the techniques that call for these rods, or the few others that like slow action for whatever purposes. I myself have an old Shakespeare S/SH rod ( I think it is 8 or 9 ft--rather short for these rods) that I have converted to a "long casting" spinning rod, and it does launch lures as far as any rod I have. Many of these rods are several feet longer than that, which might also scare off the angler who has never used anything (barring a fly rod) longer than, say, seven feet.
Frank
While you can use a salmon steelhead rod for anything they are designed for that fishery, small hooks realitvely light line and fish with soft mouths. You need a forgiving rod.
You might look into crappie rods to find a similar action long rod marketed to a different group without deep pockets. Basspro sells some built long light rods for pretty cheap, I have a couple I use for surf perch fishing with small grubs. Pretty good bang for the buck
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on February 04, 2021, 05:29:49 PM
I just used that one as an example, but that does explain a lot. there's lots of options in the $40-$80 range from other companies. And now I want one.
"Screw you, cat tails and other shoreline vegetation! I'll fish right over you!"
BAD idea, IMO... I got crap dipping into that price-range SSH,
did much better paying clearance prices for "next rung up" Cabelas FE-II (discontinued)
good Chinese IM-6 well-wrapped w/ all Fuji components (Hardloy? ...pre-Alconite)
some design issues that could use a partial re-build, but still an excellent value
in general, just assume the actions are a bit more moderate then you'd expect,
for modern graphite... more so, for old glass
do consider crappie rods for great rebuild candidate:
just leave the tip section w/ its 8-10 tiny guides, as is, and rebuild the butt
for longer handle, higher seat, and proper spinning reduction train
there's a place that offers spare tip sections for some 12-footers ($20?)
could make alternate butts from appropriate broken L/ML
few years back some guys in Puerto Vallarta, Mex and here in Baja, Mex (myself included) saw those Salmon /steelhead as a option for "light" surf fishing since there are many small and medium sized fish on the shore that offered no battle to the normal surf fishing rods 11ft 20-30, 25-50 3-6oz lure, etc, so, we started using those Salmon rods to cast light lures far to ocean, now there are brands that offer light surf fishing rods but they are kind of expensive (maybe because they are from that small niche of surf fishermen).
shimano convergence and scimitar were some of the favorites because of the price and quality.
I have posted this pic few times but clearly show that a long 13ft salmon rod can be used for light surf fishing
When we wanted to cast heavier lures but still considered light lures for normal surf rods we used/use Carp rods, which are also pretty long and pretty parabolic, my favorite was a Cabelas predator 11ft rod, I could cast 1oz lures and 1.5oz pretty far, I also used it for fishing with bait and used 3/4 egg weights + bait and could sent it to the moon
* 1st picture, I was using a 3/4oz Krocodile spoon and caught a 1# seabass or seatrout which was a blast on that rod and a small 2500 shimano sonora reel with 6# mono light, the rod is German rod "Balzer" 13ft 3-pc 25gr lure (max 7/8oz) that I bought at the FredHall show back in 2009
* 2nd picture, I was casting a Yo-zury freshwater crackbait that I changed the hooks for SW, lure is less than 1/2 oz and the reel was also a Shimano Sonora 4000 with 20# braid and 20# mono, the Rod is also a Balzer brand but this one is just 10ft long 2-pc 25gr lure (7/8oz)
* 3rd picture with the Cabela's Predator carp rod 11ft , on that rod I could use a big Daiwa emcast sport reel or a small casting saltist 20h with no problem
precisely... SSH for up to 1.5 oz.; Carp for 1-3 oz.; for more, get a proper Surf Rod
Predators are glass (E?) -- well-beloved blank in Carp community w/ minor complaints about guides
here's the most interesting model from the crappie guys that offer spare tips <$20:
https://www.grizzlyjig.com/p-21-grizzly-elite-jiggin-rod.aspx
never tried, but sure it's a good blank -- find some feedback on guide quality
I got 2 tfo 9ft searunners,,,they used to be the steelhead salmon rod,,,,, ;) they just changed the name for inshore use,,,,,, :D my favorite rod is the 10ft black hole Suzuki it's like a fly rod converted to a spin,,, but it's made for surf,,,,,,,,, ;D
I think I was asking about a lighter Suzuki, while back & ksong mentioned
another Black Hole model w/ similar action & lighter specs. (9'6" or 9' ? )
I've got my 11' penn prevail surf rod. I can throw 3-5oz of meat + lead + 40# braid about 100 yards on a good day. But you need to hook one heck of a fish to really get much feeling on that, and if there's no current to fight i'd like to not have to use much, if any lead if possible.. I just want something lighter that I can throw free line shrimp and soft plastics a mile away on 10# braid.
A 12' light rod just sounds like the ticket. They describe some of them as being fast taper. But some 7' light rods described as "fast" are still kinda floppy just because they're thin. I can only imagine that in 12' is probably a noodle. And I bet with some practice I'd be able to launch it. I've got just the reel for the job.
Quote from: philaroman on February 05, 2021, 05:24:11 AM
I think I was asking about a lighter Suzuki, while back & ksong mentioned
another Black Hole model w/ similar action & lighter specs. (9'6" or 9' ? )
The 10ft Suzuki line weigh is 10to20lb and the 9.6is 20to30lb but is way underrated,,,,, ;) the difference between my 9wt Thomas & thomas fly rod and the 10ft Suzuki is that is has a fast tip,,,, :D same back bone all the way down the rod,,,,,, ;D
I don't have many long term relationships, but this has been my sweetheart go-to rod for quite a while now. For throwing 1/4 oz and 3/8 oz jigs. It is not a noodle at all and has a lot of backbone.
https://www.lamiglas.com/collections/salmon-steelhead-rod-blanks/products/gp1382ml-g1000-pro-blank-116-steelhead-float-rod?variant=14974622662705 (https://www.lamiglas.com/collections/salmon-steelhead-rod-blanks/products/gp1382ml-g1000-pro-blank-116-steelhead-float-rod?variant=14974622662705)
I found two sticks that you can have to rebuild ,one is 8 ft and the other is 9 ft .
yellow stick tip is .170 - butt is .660 - 8 ft
gold stick has a label Bayside marking assoc -modle no 6090fb -9 ft graphite composite.
Some pic .
Super cool! I gotta start stocking up on components.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on February 05, 2021, 06:27:38 PM
I found two sticks that you can have to rebuild ,one is 8 ft and the other is 9 ft .
yellow stick tip is .170 - butt is .660 - 8 ft
gold stick has a label Bayside marking assoc -modle no 6090fb -9 ft graphite composite.
Some pic .
nice move, the ohana on its finest
In a similar vein Muskie rods are often underpriced & tough as nails perfect for light tackle inshore bottomfishing.
Quote from: whalebreath on February 07, 2021, 04:14:56 AM
In a similar vein Muskie rods are often underpriced & tough as nails perfect for light tackle inshore bottomfishing.
dont blame me but I also use a musky rod as an inshore rod, I actually liked it that much that I rebuilt a factory one with my personal touch as you can see in the link.
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=22222.0
My Go to reel for the "Gander Mountain" 7'6" Musky rod is a Calcutta 400TE which is also considered a great Musky Reel, so a combo that could fish in the river for Musky can fish inshore for big King Mackarel ( or big spanish mackarel)
2nd pic same rod but already rebuilt
I just ordered this Lami on Sunday, made in USA and 93.00 on sale with a coupon code. They are still just 125.00 right now until they are gone. They should work perfect for surf fishing with the moderate action! Figured what the heck?
https://www.lamiglas.com/collections/salmon-steelhead-rod-blanks/products/xcc1502xh-126-2pc-20-40lb-4-20oz-troll-2-8oz-cast?variant=5291637145641
I am so uncoordinated with long rods that I look like a chimpanzee jumpin' around.
Quote from: Rancanfish on February 12, 2021, 06:34:10 PM
I am so uncoordinated with long rods that I look like a chimpanzee jumpin' around.
The good news is I doubt the fish can see you.
I have about a couple thousand dollars worth of stuff specifically for salmon. I haven't caught a salmon in 2 years. Dominick
Quote from: Breadfan on February 12, 2021, 04:40:06 PM
I just ordered this Lami on Sunday, made in USA and 93.00 on sale with a coupon code. They are still just 125.00 right now until they are gone. They should work perfect for surf fishing with the moderate action! Figured what the heck?
https://www.lamiglas.com/collections/salmon-steelhead-rod-blanks/products/xcc1502xh-126-2pc-20-40lb-4-20oz-troll-2-8oz-cast?variant=5291637145641
Looks like the perfect choice and at a steal to boot.
-s
Two maybe three bait & tackles in my little corner of nowhere (south Georgia) sell salmon/steelhead rods, Shimano I think. I would guess that people down here are using them for speckled trout.
It's a shame that a whole class of rods were named after two species.
Quote from: oc1 on February 26, 2021, 08:59:03 AM
It's a shame that a whole class of rods were named after two species.
Indeed. And I hate salmon. Almost turns me off to the whole idea. Almost.
Quote from: Breadfan on February 12, 2021, 04:40:06 PM
I just ordered this Lami on Sunday, made in USA and 93.00 on sale with a coupon code. They are still just 125.00 right now until they are gone. They should work perfect for surf fishing with the moderate action! Figured what the heck?
https://www.lamiglas.com/collections/salmon-steelhead-rod-blanks/products/xcc1502xh-126-2pc-20-40lb-4-20oz-troll-2-8oz-cast?variant=5291637145641
A follow up on this rod. I did a rather simple build on this, just black thread with AT Snagless guides and a aluminum reel seat with split grips. the specs said I could throw 2-6oz. I took it out and put 3.5 oz and my rig and bait, just sand fleas so it could not have been 4 oz total. The rod over loaded and was very late in releasing. I had to throw to the right to make it go straight. Not good. However, it fought pompano wonderfully, with a parabolic curve that kept them pinned down, no lost fish to this rod. But the casting was just off. I'm experimental so I thought, what the hell, tip it three inches and see what happens. it cast a little better and the action seemed unaffected, catching many fish and losing none. So I tipped it 3 more inches. My 12'6" was now a 12'. Next trip to the beach and this rod has become my best caster with almost zero difference in the action. What difference there is, is for the better. Paired with my fathom II CS, it is now a pompano catching machine!
Out of curiosity, just for the sake of an additional data point for an entirely separate discussion...
Re: not casting straight, did you build with the guides aligned with the spine of the blank?
I did align the spine. I cast slightly sideways (about 2:00 o'clock) to begin with, kind of Hatteras style, and maybe I adjusted an earlier release more than a more sideways cast or combo of both. The rod just wasn't able to handle the weight and when I tipped it, everything changed. I'm going to buy more of these so I have all the same rods in my outfit. I could have just backed down to 2oz and it would have been fine without being tipped, but normally we can't hold bottom unless we use at least 3 oz.
I picked up a couple of the same blanks for light surf casting live shrimps and crabs. The blanks are nice and light the moderate action should be perfect for what I am using them for.
I like the way they cast minimal effort to launch lead a good distance.
I have never purchased any kind of rod based on manufactures description or recommendations. Once I was offered a free blank by a local rod manufacturers rep. I chose it from about 8 different blanks in his warehouse. It was an HMG blank, stiff, light and too long. So I shortened it from the back and made a very nice casting Yellowtail rod from it. I fished it for 3 months, caught many Yellowtail and decided to order another one to make a similar but longer rod. Before the new one arrived, the first one broke while lifting a fish. I did not understand at that time that HMD was more fragile. When the new longer blank came I made up an very nice rod for distance casting, it cast well and at the first opportunity to use it I hooked a nice Yellowtail just outside the surf, worked it in towards the rocks and in the strong wash while exerting a lot of pressure to persuade it to go where it did not want to.....a horrible BANG and it also broke. I was very annoyed, it should never have broken like that!
I now always choose a blank/rod based on the feel, the flex , stiffness and backbone because I know what I want to do with it. If its a rod I don't usually worry too much about the components because I nearly always re build it. Often that is a slow process, I go fish with it then may decide to shorten it by 3 inches or change the position of the real seat or whatever. In this way I get it to precisely what I want and while fishing I determine that it is not going to break on me easily, or if it does.......
This long story is really to say that I will buy any blank/Rod based on my own "feel" not recommendations from manufacturers. Yes sure I do look at the specs as a guide line and who made it but often I don't care either, these are just secondary considerations. I have purchased many cheap rods from the east, rebuilt them in to superb fishing rods that others copy. The critical aspect is that you need to understand precisely what you want and be able to identify a suitable blank.
Part of my approach is from lack of choice after my favourite blank builder went out of business 10 years ago. We now have only 1 & 1/2 graphite rod manufactures here, the rest are all imported and very pricy.
The Lami did not specify a lure weight rating in the specs you linked to. That is the only number that speaks to me. They call it a trolling, plunking and downrigger rod and don't mention casting. If they had used a lure weight rating it might have saved you some aggravation.
I rarely believe what manufacturers specify as to the performance of a rod blank, as they are not under any kind of control; a lot is purely down to which market element they are looking to attract. Most often lure ratings and casting weights seem at best optimistic and stated more to attract a wider potential range of purchasers than is actually accurate for any give blank.
Have written in the past, about the need for a more comprehensive manner of labelling of products, but it is complex and exceedingly unlikely to happen. When we get a prototype, we will build it and test, both for optimum and maximum overload situations, especially in casting rods. A lot of pre-test handling can give a 'feel' towards what is going to be the kind of range, but pure testing is the only way we have found to get it right.
Perhaps the closest to outright expected performance can be seen in how UK Carp rods are marketed, against a test curve rating, which then gives a clear idea to the maximum weight loading the rod/blank can handle. However, there are numerous discussions as to how best to achieve even this simple rating, so a long way off for potential customers to get a really accurate expectation of what they are buying.
Quote from: oc1 on May 30, 2021, 08:26:31 AM
The Lami did not specify a lure weight rating in the specs you linked to. That is the only number that speaks to me. They call it a trolling, plunking and downrigger rod and don't mention casting. If they had used a lure weight rating it might have saved you some aggravation.
From the website. It says trolling 4-20 OZ or casting 2-6.
12'6" 2-Piece Blank
Leader 20-40lb Braid 30-60lb
Troll / Anchor 4 - 20 oz.
Cast 2 - 8 oz.
--- Matte Black Finish ---
Extra-heavy power but moderate absorption in the blank. Can troll heavier offerings or cast effectively. Excellent choice for a soft bait chunking blank or a salmon/steelhead/sturgeon plunking blank. Softer than most surf blanks which can allow some excellent live bait or chunk bait opportunity
Designed for trolling and anchoring for salmon. Able to pull flashers and bait or hardware with big spread. The fiberglass / graphite blend loads nicely but also drives hooks home. Highly durable yet classy. Very powerful but not stiff.
It's all good. Once I tipped it it quickly became one of my favorite surf rods. The action is perfect for pompano and it almost resembles my honey Lami. Pompano fishing can be frustrating. You need a moderate action rod to keep the fish pinned yet sometimes you can't reach the bar. If you stiffen up and go for a carbon rod the action is not there and it is hard to hook one let alone get him in without him jumping off. They are very sensitive to the rod when taking the bait, any resistance and they let it go.
Quote from: Fishamen7 on May 30, 2021, 01:37:03 AM
I picked up a couple of the same blanks for light surf casting live shrimps and crabs. The blanks are nice and light the moderate action should be perfect for what I am using them for.
I like the way they cast minimal effort to launch lead a good distance.
It's a very good deal on a Lami!
They are a great deal! I put a 200 series Newell (Thanks to Randy) on mine and it seems to fit the rod nicely.
I went with the factory recommended guide spacing for this blank. Just used slightly larger guides in titanium to help keep weight down.