As a fisherman of sorts, my choosing a knot should be influenced by the application, ease of tying and expected strength following my fiddling around right?
To my thinking 🤔 the Albright knot has been around for quite some time and I use it some still.
The Alberto knot is being mentioned more now it seems and brings up a simple question.
Are these the same knots? Or a variation ? Usually an improved version has an extra twist?
Somebody will know, Just wondering.
Below is a picture of a problem that I've got concerning the connection. I used 20 wraps down and 15 back up......To me only half of the wraps are working. Do I have too many wraps in the knot?
When testing the knot it always fails in the front part where the braid starts the wraps on the folded mono.
It's an easy knot to use when I,m in a hurry generally just making the day more complicated.....
With the Alberto, the thinner line is wrapped up and then down. The Albright is only wrapped down (toward the bend).
https://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots/alberto-knot (https://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots/alberto-knot)
https://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots/albright-special (https://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots/albright-special)
The Alberto works for me tying braid into thick mono leader. I last used the Albright for tying mono to single strand wire biter tippet. Not too many wraps with either. More is not better.
There is a video link on this site somewhere to the RP knot, which is the same knot as the Alberto. In the video, the final tightening of the knot is done with a sudden hard jerk on both standing lines at the same time. This the key for me. The wraps have to dig in.
-J
I use an albright for 100yd plus top shots in very heavy line, 200lb braid to 130lb mono with a bimini in the braid. For everything else an RP knot. I just don't have confidence in tying an FG, it never looks right when I do it.
That looks like too many wraps. I believe 8-10 max is typical.
An Alberto (modified Albright) is what I primarily use for attaching braid to mono & fluoro --usually 7 wraps down and 7 back up.
I use a basic Albright in fly fishing applications.
Quote from: SteveL on February 26, 2021, 12:29:39 PM
That looks like too many wraps. I believe 8-10 max is typical.
I usual go 12 to 14 wraps but have done less and they hold.
The Alberto/Improved Albright/RP/John Collins knot are all the same thing. The improved part is that unlike the Albright, it wraps up then down rather than just down. On an Albright I use 20 wraps, on the improved Albright I go 10 each way.
Gary, I have been using the Butt knot (that's what I named it) since you showed Wayne and I the knot. You did not mention it but you finish it off with reverse half hitches. Do I remember it correctly? Dominick
Thanks to everyone for sharing your information, thoughts. This knot has my interest and soon I,ll share some variations you won't see on u tube! Maybe I've been locked down a little too long ?.
As for Dominic 🌦. If it's raining we won't fish 🐟. 😅
What knot are you being in question of? Hope all is well with everyone....
Quote from: gstours on February 27, 2021, 12:53:12 AM
Thanks to everyone for sharing your information, thoughts. This knot has my interest and soon I,ll share some variations you won't see on u tube! Maybe I've been locked down a little too long ?.
As for Dominic 🌦. If it's raining we won't fish 🐟. 😅
What knot are you being in question of? Hope all is well with everyone....
I'm just talking about the knot that you go up with wraps and then reverse going down and end up with half hitches. Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on February 27, 2021, 12:06:13 AM
Gary, I have been using the Butt knot (that's what I named it) since you showed Wayne and I the knot. You did not mention it but you finish it off with reverse half hitches. Do I remember it correctly? Dominick
Gary,
Here are a few photos of what Dommy is talk'n 'bout.
Here is your BUTT Knot used every day on the USS Maiko hauling up BIG Halibuts in Glacier Bay NP.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/7588_28_02_21_1_30_13_345921898.jpeg)
AND here is the knot tying diagram I saw stapled on your garage door.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/7588_28_02_21_1_30_12_345911877.jpeg)
OK, not that clear, here is a close-up shot for easier viewing.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/7588_28_02_21_1_30_08_345871148.jpeg)
and a more detailed photo for easier viewing
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/7588_28_02_21_1_31_35_345951512.jpeg)
Dominick got overheated just watching you do your BUTT Magic!!!!
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/7588_28_02_21_1_30_14_34593910.jpeg)
And here is Gary always providing keywords of wisdom and factoids only needed for the serious fisherman in this part of the world!!!! Love you Gary!!!
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/7588_28_02_21_1_36_50.jpeg)
And here is the PHOTO of the Day with Gary working in ONE of his workshops on his property.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/7588_28_02_21_1_30_09_345902043.jpeg)
Gary, Please tell us more about this knot you used, at least in Aug. 2019 - and what knot you might be using now.
Wayne
Gary was also practicing on a smaller and slimmer knot - don't know or remember the name,
BUTT here was Gary's rendition back in Aug. 2019.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/7588_28_02_21_2_01_15_345961839.jpeg)
BUTT, if you have any issue with Gary's knot tying, please see press the complaint button!!!! ;D
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/7588_28_02_21_2_01_31_34597877.jpeg)
This all in FUN!!!!
Wayne
Just like a great stew or spaghettis sauce this won got a little better overnite......Thanks Waynee. What? no selfie? :o
Firstly the yelllo braid on the chain link showed you paying attention, Dominick was as well, butt I never did figgure what the half hitches came from? I,m thinking the knots have to be treated separately. And put that camera back in your pocket!!! ;)
The yello braid knot pic is a knot that is my "go do" knot for connecting to a swivel .... It was first shown to me at the advent of the spectra revolution. Years ago braid was also Dacron, and it was pretty knot friendly to the fisherperson.
Maybe before (?} the Sandiago knot even? Before u tube, back when gasoline was twentynine cents a gallon on the west coast.
Spectra is slippery and small diameter , So my knot started out as a doubled line thru the eye and back down to the pinched fingers and held just like a double Sandiago for starters,,,,,,,OK, leave a foot to go up thru the eye and back to pinch (minimum).
Seconldy the swivel or hook need to be held somehow to keep it from twisting and you must pull a little with the loop pinching fingers to keep the wraps in a strait line.
Thirdly the doubled line loop is wrapped toward the swivel using almost all the space you have provided for it, THEN unlike the Sandiago knot the line remaining is wrapped back down to the held loop tag end/main line keeping the line pulled firm, put the looped double wrapping line thru the hole between the tag and main line pinched fingers. wet the line just like the Sandiago and pull the main line first, then the tag end some, and the loop a little, you will see the knot start to form and move up to the swivel. Now a pliers is used to pull the tag end more firmly.
also pull bothe ends of the loop some as well as the main line with a rag or glove until the knot stops moving, Just like any other knot.
You will notice that you have 3 tag ends now to trim and burn. The loop2+1=3!
So now you kinda know? I have extreme confidence in this knot, and it reminds me of the good ol days fishing for sturgeon on the Columbia River. Its still a good Knot, can be used with mono butt Scoffers chime its "too bulky" 8)
The knot diagram Wayne showed is Knot the knot and may have kept his attention and camera busy enough to have missed the earlier presentation? ;D
"Dominic got overheated just watching you do your butt magic !!!"
Good for a deep, extended and much needed belly laugh!
Quote from: gstours on February 28, 2021, 03:12:50 PM
......Thanks Waynee. What? no selfie? :o
Gary,
How many photos of Ansel Adams do you ever see???
My POINT exactly!!!!!
Wayne
Tanks, the diagram shown is not the knot. Below is a replica of the yellow line ☝️ one.
Doubled line and swivel held.
Then raps.up to swivel tote and back down.
Upper and lower part shown.
As always moisten the line and work the ends slowly. Finally pulling very hard.
I have not ever seen anyone else ever use this knot. Nor know if it has a name, butt somebody here has......
It may also have something in common with the Alberto knot. Maybe upside down ?
Another reason I don't do this teaching stuff is I forgot to mention with braid sometimes more is better. As I usually use 20 turns up and fifteen back if you leave your self enough to work with.
Thanks. Any criticism of course is welcome 🙏....
And now back to a variation of the Alberto knot. It's a work in progress, and uses the bobbin and spiral under wraps and the RP bobbin over wraps then ticks in the usual Albright mono loop after adding 4 turns with the tag end. Sounds like a good lockdown project? ???
Now back to the earlier question of Dominic. I can only think 🤔 when you mention half hitches it was on tying the FG knot. Thanks Wayne for your pictures. This goes back a ways .🧐
The Albrite and FG were the only knots I knew at that time. Both of these are good knots and will be around as long as we can go fishing.
This spiral wrap hybrid Alberto shows promise and needs some actual field testing.🎣
It also uses some half hitches as shown. These hitches seem to make the looped end softer.
It seems also that if more than about 4 raps are used in the risotto finish they slide down eventually at least for me.🐟
I think you did way too many wraps....I've used the Alberto knot for years and was taught how to tie it from the the man himself....I go 5-7 wraps each way and never had an issue....This is the knot i used last year to tie 65# braid to 50# flouro and it hld tight on a 110# bft after a 2 hour fight....
Thanks mr. P. I'll try some and test home. It's a simple one that I might be able to do.?☺️
Below is another actual shop test. 45# held for 2 minutes. Here's the picture. Tag of loop starting to walk. I don't know if this would cost me a fish 🐟? Constant strain may change the knot?
Butt it makes a quite ride back home....... as many of you know......🤞
Found the video. This is the tying method works for me
John Collins ties with only five wraps. More is not always better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiSik3Jqs7M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiSik3Jqs7M)
The alberto (AKA RP/improved albright) is the knot on the bottom. It is nice and small. and passes through the guides easily. If you can force yourself, test some out with 5- 7 wraps and no locking half hitches :)
-J
OK. thanks, i got it. by using your pocket translator book, is this the earlier discussed Albright? or another variation.
https://youtu.be/hG-5x2dFinA
Quote from: gstours on March 02, 2021, 03:14:25 PM
OK. thanks, i got it. by using your pocket translator book, is this the earlier discussed Albright? or another variation.
I like how he had us watch him clean the lint off of the background fabric for the first 30 seconds. :D
He is tying an Albright with some locking half hitches. He is also bringing the tag through the "wrong" side of bend after finishing the wraps. Don't know if this is intentional or not.
On side note, I have seen two different versions of the improved or modified Albright. One is the same as the Alberto/RP (up and down wraps), the other is the same as the Albright (down wraps only) but has the last 6 or so wraps go only around one leg of the mono.
I don't see how locking wraps in the braid would help with any of these knots.
The reason for not using too many wraps on the braid to mono Alberto is to give it an opportunity to deform the mono a bit to get some grip. The more wraps you add, the greater the chance that you will either spread the load too much and none of the wraps will embed enough into the mono, or that only the bottom wraps will embed, leaving the top wraps with a bit of slack that will work the knot loose if it is jerked frequently ( but may not show on a steady pull test).
There will be a right number of wraps that might change a bit for the lines used, or your personal tightening ability. Looks like most folks are sticking between five and ten on the Alberto.
Looking forward to your next test result. I like your long-time steady pull test idea, and brought it up at the weekly Zoom.
It would be fun to set up a Rube Goldberg machine that does a series of jerk tests. I think you are just the guy to come up with something :)
-J
Didn't you guys hear the disclaimer at the beginning of the video. It said "do not try this at home, and results may vary." :D Dominick
Tanks Dom, your service may be needed in explaining to The court. ;). He didn't mean to hurt anyone. :(
But I'm glad to improve my stuff in fishing, with all of everybody helping.
There's a lot of knots and decisions to make before you leave home 🏠.
Thanks to all.
Quote from: gstours on March 03, 2021, 08:25:45 PM
Tanks Dom, your service may be needed in explaining to The court. ;). He didn't mean to hurt anyone. :(
But I'm glad to improve my stuff in fishing, with all of everybody helping.
There's a lot of knots and decisions to make before you leave home 🏠.
Thanks to all.
You tied a pretty good knot with Mary Jo. :) Dominick
Thanks for agreeing how lucky 🍀 I am. Mary jo keeps me in line, for sure I'd be dead 💀 before now.
But just like knots you got to get it right, or get lucky 🍀?
Butt now back to the art, and science of knots.......
The Alberto is a good knot and has merit for my desire to find some fresh fish to eat. Below is some recent testing and all these broke before my knots tied in a chain with other "many twists " knots.
More on this soon. Remember I,m just trying to learn and keep your minds busy until you can go fishing as we did hopefully again.......? ???
In trying to keep everything uniform the same line and leader are being used. Other than slipping this mono loop seems to be the weak place in my life Alberto knots.
Maybe more of the load is being concentrated here at the mono loop, or the mono is being cut with the braid under stress in the load test?
In this photo the braid was unwrapped some to inspect.
Thanks again for everyone sharing the information and time for my help in the Alberto knot.
I appreciate everything that is promoted, Below is some of my findings..
This knot is very easy and quick to tie, even when queasy, It's good and trustworthy for its small size.
It certainly has its place in the not hall of fame....... ;D.......
Thanks again 🚣♀️
In my findings with tying the knot and testing I've concluded that most of you are right. Thanks 🙏.
It doesn't seem to add anything with more wraps than 6-7, It makes the knot longer that's all.
Butt I had to know,🤔. Now it's easy peezy.🎣. Now on to better things. 🚣♀️
Been using this basic knot for years. Never knew the name. Someone showed me once and i just rolled with it. How many loops depends on braid diameter. With 10# braid I'll sometimes do 15 loops. With 50# braid I'll likely only do 5. I like it because it can be tied in the dark sitting on the rocks while getting sprayed with waves with no issue. I could likely tie it blindfolded. I like a double uni or sometimes a blood knot but I like those a lot better when I'm sitting on a well lit couch. Definitely couldn't do those blindfolded.
One thing that's different though, I end the knot with the tag end going through the loop the opposite direction from what I see shown here. So its going through the same direction it first entered the loop. I find, and lets be clear I claim no expertise, that when it goes through the way I see shown here, it pulls tight easier but also sometimes defeats itself and comes undone. Where I never see that tying my normal way.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on March 08, 2021, 06:42:30 PM
One thing that's different though, I end the knot with the tag end going through the loop the opposite direction from what I see shown here. So its going through the same direction it first entered the loop. I find, and lets be clear I claim no expertise, that when it goes through the way I see shown here, it pulls tight easier but also sometimes defeats itself and comes undone. Where I never see that typing my normal way.
The descriptions of the Alberto that I have seen either specify the braid passing though the same side in and out, or claim that it does not matter.
If you go out the back door, you will have only executed half a turn on your final wrap. The point of the Alberto (vs. Albright) is to have crisscrossing wraps, so I would expect that a matching number of wraps helps. The effect could be minor and probably depends on the number of wraps and the diameter of the mono.
However, the back door method might make it easier to slide the wraps into position before tightening, as the legs will hold the bottom wraps open a little bit until you let go of the tag to tighten. Maybe useful for tiers that do not use a solid sudden jerk to lock the knot in place?
I go out the front door, and the hard jerk is what made the Alberto reliable for me. But everybody ties the same knot a little differently, and uses different materials. No reason not to go with something that you have faith in that is getting the job done.
You should call your knot the "back door Alberto" :)
-J
I was getting worried that I would have to change the way I tied this knot ..................... turns out I don't. Thanks Gary for all of the testing !! You had me worried that my knot which has never failed fishing was still OK. For the record I go in the front door.
Cheers:
Todd
In keeping with Alans Rules, i,ll not ask, who is a backdoor man? ???
Actually ive found a lot of fisher people are kinda a proud lot and of coarse want to think theyir knots are like the bosses. Butt the strain test tells the truth and the truth hurts. Testing is Quantitively a story there's lots of other reasons to choose one knot over another. ;)
Thanks for everyones help and being kind. :-*
I've arranged to borrow an IGFA-spec line tester so will be doing a whole load of knots in a somewhat scientific fashion. Mostly to refine my own knot tieing, but being open-minded about the performance of other knots has lead me to some interesting discoveries.
Thanks for the information Mr. Boon, I'm very interested in your machine and setup,etc.....
I always was sheepish about my test results and amateur methods. Butt until you know you don't know.
Thanks for stepping up to the plate. I can't wait to see what you're doing ......... ;)
Mabee SAl did this to us? Thanks again. Gst
Quote from: gstours on March 03, 2021, 08:25:45 PM
Tanks Dom, your service may be needed in explaining to The court. ;). He didn't mean to hurt anyone. :(
But I'm glad to improve my stuff in fishing, with all of everybody helping.
There's a lot of knots and decisions to make before you leave home 🏠.
Thanks to all.
Can you help an Alaskan out? I have been using a double uni to tie my mono to braid for halibut. I am going to try this knot. I am all for a smaller knot. Can I ask what braid and top shot, as well as length you use? I am still using mono for top. I am not sure what fluorocarbon buys you. Any help here is appreciated. We have started going with smaller rods, reels, and line recently. I am fishing southcentral waters, usually 200' - 300'. We get some ripping tides so started trying smaller diameter line to get it to the bottom. I am sItting drinking a cold beverage after digging out of 17" of snow last night. Darn, I am ready to go fishing. Thanks in advance.
Quote from: gstours on March 10, 2021, 05:12:23 PM
In keeping with Alans Rules, i,ll not ask, who is a backdoor man? ???
Just a bit of midnight creeping. What could possibly go wrong?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OloCF_5wWfQ (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OloCF_5wWfQ)
Thanks to Alan nd others for making this possible, And now music 🎼 whenever reading posts here.
What's next? Cold ones w server?
As for the last question. I use 80#solid braid, and 100# or 80 for my fusible link. We generally do a very short mono shot . Maybe 10-20 feet for halibut, the mono is better for handling the line when boat necessities, and more abrasion resist.
The non casting type of fishing lends itself to larger and longer knots as well.
It's a known fact that I like a lot of wraps 🙈. ;)
The sp, fg, rp, and now the Alberto are good knots to know. Best of luck to all the 🎣.
Sometimes you just have to cut your line. :-X