I know many here adore the older classics like the 1500C, 1600C, 2500C, and 2600C, but what about the forgotten small Ambassadeurs? By forgotten, I'm speaking of the older Black Max, Pro Max, Silver Max, and Tournament Pro round reels of the 90s that came in the 1600 and 3600 sizes. I got my first Black Max 1600 earlier this year and it has quickly become my favorite reel. Since that first one, I've since become hooked and have been buying them up. Now I have three Black Max 1600s, a Pro Max 1600, a Black Max 3600, and two Pro Max 3600s. All have been upgraded to Carbontex drags and light blue brake blocks. In the case of the 1600s, they can really throw the light stuff. I've had no issue throwing baits as light as 1/8oz from my ML rods. I really dig the disengaging level wind and how they sit low on the reel seat. To me, they palm almost as easy as many low profile reels on the market. I think these reels will make up the majority of my arsenal from here on out due to the increasingly high prices of the classic 1500C/2500C.
Quote from: tincanary on June 05, 2019, 01:16:28 PM
I'm speaking of the older Black Max, Pro Max, Silver Max, and Tournament Pro round reels of the 90s that came in the 1600 and 3600 sizes.
I really don't know much about the models you've mentioned here Tincanary...I guess we know what Mo will be googling today! I have a feeling you are about to send me on a small Ambassadeur chase. 8)
Quote from: mo65 on June 05, 2019, 02:02:03 PM
Quote from: tincanary on June 05, 2019, 01:16:28 PM
I'm speaking of the older Black Max, Pro Max, Silver Max, and Tournament Pro round reels of the 90s that came in the 1600 and 3600 sizes.
I really don't know much about the models you've mentioned here Tincanary...I guess we know what Mo will be googling today! I have a feeling you are about to send me on a small Ambassadeur chase. 8)
Here's some good reading for you :) http://www.realsreels.com/servicing/servicingtuningABUBlackMax.html From a service standpoint, they are very much like the Ultra Cast 4000 to 6000 reels, so very easy to work on.
I have a 5600 and 6600 promax- 200 each bucks in 1992! I think they had ten bearings, very smooth; I like them a lot but the finish was very poor and scratched easily.
The finish on the Pro Max is very poor to say the least, but the Black Max isn't too bad. The letter wears off easy on the Black Max but that's about it. With the Pro Max, they are very prone to paint chips. Those reels were also sold with a lifetime warranty. One of the last purely Swedish Ambassadeurs before Pure Fishing bought the company. I need to borrow a scale from work so I can weigh the spool on one of my 1600 reels. They are super light, much lighter than any other production Ambassadeur spool I've encountered. They are made of some sort of aluminum alloy.
Any ABU except the 5xxx and 6xxx are rare where I live but occasionaly a 4xxx shows up I have a 3600C.
Oh yeah, these take the same Carbontex drags you'd use on a 4000 to 6000 sized C3 or C4 (replacement for Abu part no. 20907). The only difference is there is no drag washer at the base of the driveshaft. In its place is the cog wheel that drives the level wind when the spool is engaged.
Here's a Black Max 1600 I serviced a couple of months back. Works like a champ for stream trout spooled with 6lb CXX.
(https://i.imgur.com/Y7V9Q17.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RXjeFBt.jpg)
Quote from: tincanary on June 05, 2019, 04:58:31 PM
Works like a champ for stream trout spooled with 6lb cxx
This is what i've been trying to do with my 4600!!
What rod do you use? What is "cxx" ?
Does the cog under the main gear make it tougher to make a CT out of these? I'd really like a teeny tiny Abu for yellow perch and such at the local lake, assuming they ever let us fish again.
The Man
There are no small ambassadeurs and it would be a major ordeal to make/hack them smaller. I have 1500C and royal 4600. You can scarcely tell the difference between them and a 5000 when it comes to palming it.
The older ABU 2659 and ABU Record 2200 feel smaller.
-steve
Quote from: Ron Jones on April 20, 2020, 02:58:54 AM
Does the cog under the main gear make it tougher to make a CT out of these? I'd really like a teeny tiny Abu for yellow perch and such at the local lake, assuming they ever let us fish again.
The Man
Not at all. The cog rotates the gear on the worm shaft. Remove the worm shaft and you're fine.
the 3500, center reel in pic, is a bit smaller diameter than the 5000, similar to a 2650. i've not fished it yet, but it is in a box with some other abu's i'm going to service. the 2650 is a shelfer.
tincanary
Tell me about your stream fishing for trout. I want to give this a try this summer with a 4600 and a cheap Eagle Claw rod I found on eBay a while back. I've got the 4600 spooled with 10# stren right now, You said you use your 1600 w/6# line, would that weight differential make any appreciable difference in reel performance? What size rod are you using?
thanks tincanary.. I didn't even know about these until someone posted one on the fiberglassflyrodders miscellaneous forum..
https://fiberglassflyrodders.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=71338 (https://fiberglassflyrodders.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=71338)
Always wanted a 1500 or 2500 but prices on those have gone way into the stratosphere, particularly since baitcast finesse fishing became a thing - the Japanese are bidding them up now I think.
So just got a 1600, will upgrade the bearings to ceramic and maybe drag, look forward to trying it out.
I've been using an old Lews for light baitcasting and it's been great, but have a fondness for Abu..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JzffCf0bF8RvJh-BEGSZ4X4IF1B0M5ZeCTR_RxuAoB7bnkslTwC7tdQO7pZF_WSHhOYZQEx-Htqf8T122JVPWnWAdtu7cnnB2aqfOcIBa-1W6gRnWVShpl_Ldw3IoBSw9PzTZhUI2K88HqcBUOhK2IZAe3UnUYV1ZahFaBHBwjKL8CLod9-GHVMMgv9adj_FKieewJkaE2fL6rUtGvFOWOiRbnw736kcGVL5aWZO2CMkTEi2-DxRpUJ9qHBW0NLBIZK_9eaN7dBIcv06LXRzofO164YeqW_zU9OWArivp3q9Bq5hm9cAtc7ko1BpZ5L7za5Z2MP4vWT8kz8Ws-NNpPIliW109PO1DbSFs9c9K1JtMOyaqmnIFak9jU2pb9UgpCBAgghRvRt07fNOD5pLRM2SEhLjAfQPbRmEi_4RpwCVICo8PpXLXrO8kl4tAMGHDyN5POcj5Gjs64F3_-bZ8wmfkVvIchkKwQtEktWa217V4nkAJ78jl4wLih1Xrmmy6_RN4TueC1dSaThY6nyqWegTKV1VDJZwkKBGJ6LFHBiqX5zzpn39T--oQ106J6Wn3eDD6M2O_CS7nC4z37Zc5yWzqd_nt8_DtP1MvCidMFSPV7t_utq8B7drvdlNq0XnKIAxm320OvMh-sBUgDn3legPqOqQvA3lO1Y553F-5Q7_-kUYUlUN-mQJiQg2uiYwl7VPpm0F6UttZaK5uttH8ho=w663-h883-no?authuser=0)
Quote from: DougK on March 25, 2021, 10:34:28 PM
So just got a 1600, will upgrade the bearings to ceramic and maybe drag, look forward to trying it out.
I've been using an old Lews for light baitcasting and it's been great, but have a fondness for Abu..
The factory bearings will be plenty good, just give them a good cleaning. Another good upgrade would be to swap the brake blocks for lighter ones. The 1600s come with either the heavy white, or medium weight black blocks installed from the factory. The lightweight blue brake blocks will really wake them up, additionally, you may opt to swap out the clutch washer and brake blocks for the clutch washer and Bakelite blocks found on the Pro Rocket reels. I noticed the person in the post you linked swapped out the worm bushings for bearings. While it will make the reel feel marginally smoother, it's an unnecessary upgrade since this reel uses a disengaging levelwind that stays put when casting. Additionally, there's a bronze bushing pressed into the palm side of the frame, polish the surface where it makes contact with the spool bearing retainer and give a coating of light oil. That will free it up good. You may also wish to polish the brake drum to clean it up and smooth out the surface so braking is more consistent. Have fun with it, it's a wonderful little reel and can be tweaked good with a little elbow grease.
Ok I will jump in with a couple of questions for the group. In Idaho many use the 4600 for trolling for Kokanee in the lakes. I serviced a handful of 4600 Kokanee Specials for a gentlemen a couple of month back. They had clickers in a 4600 size. Could not find any good info on the model. But many folks would love to add a clicker to the standard 4600.
Secondly, 4601's on Ebay. :o Why do they fetch such a price? Is the supply and demand at work or am I missing something else?
Andy
I saw one for sale in our FOR SALE section, page 2.
Quote from: YellowLabs on April 20, 2020, 02:28:34 AM
Quote from: tincanary on June 05, 2019, 04:58:31 PM
Works like a champ for stream trout spooled with 6lb cxx
This is what i've been trying to do with my 4600!!
What rod do you use? What is "cxx" ?
CXX is P-Line
Quote from: steelhead_killer on March 26, 2021, 12:21:18 PM
Ok I will jump in with a couple of questions for the group. In Idaho many use the 4600 for trolling for Kokanee in the lakes. I serviced a handful of 4600 Kokanee Specials for a gentlemen a couple of month back. They had clickers in a 4600 size. Could not find any good info on the model. But many folks would love to add a clicker to the standard 4600.
Secondly, 4601's on Ebay. :o Why do they fetch such a price? Is the supply and demand at work or am I missing something else?
Andy
There are two ways to add a clicker to a 4600. The cheapest way and most involving is to cut the side plate to accommodate the clicker and install the parts. The easy and more expensive way is to swap the 4600 side plate for a 6500/6600 side plate and associated clicker hardware. Aside from a clicker, the only differences between a 4000, 5000, and 6000 size reel are the frame, spool, and axle. Everything else is interchangeable.
Quote from: tincanary on March 27, 2021, 12:05:02 AM
Quote from: steelhead_killer on March 26, 2021, 12:21:18 PM
Ok I will jump in with a couple of questions for the group. In Idaho many use the 4600 for trolling for Kokanee in the lakes. I serviced a handful of 4600 Kokanee Specials for a gentlemen a couple of month back. They had clickers in a 4600 size. Could not find any good info on the model. But many folks would love to add a clicker to the standard 4600.
Secondly, 4601's on Ebay. :o Why do they fetch such a price? Is the supply and demand at work or am I missing something else?
Andy
There are two ways to add a clicker to a 4600. The cheapest way and most involving is to cut the side plate to accommodate the clicker and install the parts. The easy and more expensive way is to swap the 4600 side plate for a 6500/6600 side plate and associated clicker hardware. Aside from a clicker, the only differences between a 4000, 5000, and 6000 size reel are the frame, spool, and axle. Everything else is interchangeable.
Did not even think about the interchangeability of them. Thanks!
Quote from: tincanary on March 26, 2021, 11:19:32 AM
Additionally, there's a bronze bushing pressed into the palm side of the frame, polish the surface where it makes contact with the spool bearing retainer and give a coating of light oil. That will free it up good. You may also wish to polish the brake drum to clean it up and smooth out the surface so braking is more consistent.
thanks, I have the blue brakes on order, and already figured with a disengaging level wind those bearings/bushings don't count for anything on casting.. but had not occurred me to polish that bushing and the brake drum. Good idea..
Reel arrived today, it's been neglected but not abused it seems. Just the way I like them, can fix neglect easily enough..
Quote from: DougK on March 27, 2021, 03:10:15 AM
Quote from: tincanary on March 26, 2021, 11:19:32 AM
Additionally, there's a bronze bushing pressed into the palm side of the frame, polish the surface where it makes contact with the spool bearing retainer and give a coating of light oil. That will free it up good. You may also wish to polish the brake drum to clean it up and smooth out the surface so braking is more consistent.
thanks, I have the blue brakes on order, and already figured with a disengaging level wind those bearings/bushings don't count for anything on casting.. but had not occurred me to polish that bushing and the brake drum. Good idea..
Reel arrived today, it's been neglected but not abused it seems. Just the way I like them, can fix neglect easily enough..
When you polish the parts, use a non abrasive metal polish and go at the lowest speed possible. You don't want to remove any material.