Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Fishing Rods => Fishing Rods => Topic started by: steelfish on July 14, 2017, 09:21:56 PM

Title: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: steelfish on July 14, 2017, 09:21:56 PM
Finally have the time ( I forced it between other rods) to rewrap on of my own rods, actually this was where everything started few months back almost a year I think, I wanted to build me a rod with the colors on my favorite soccer team, so I learned the basic to wrap my own rod but somehow everything got outta control and ended up rebuiliding 10-15 rods for other guys before doing mine, ooh well.

that really helped a lot cuz now I took my time and wanted gave it a try to dragon scales and acid wrap, heck if it was my own rod I could handle if I made a mess on it, so I went for it, my first time on both techniques but of course I read tons of tips on acid wras and saw hours and hours of videos so, I was confident to make a good job.
it was a factory made musky rod from Gander Mnt, I love this rod for inshore fishing for sierras, corvinas, croakers and big Cabrillas, so it was a perfect candidate for me to get a face lift, this rod have years been married with my calcutta 400TE so, it will look awesome with all the gold accents with the gold reel.

so, he it is, few pics on how the rod looked in its factory made suit and then some pics on how it looks currently
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4305/35792757521_be3dd70e4d_o.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4310/35924660285_266a8a73b5_o.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4298/35792734791_7c3348fc6b_o.jpg)

(https://alantani.com/gallery/19/3592_14_07_17_1_09_40_190241610.jpeg)

(https://alantani.com/gallery/19/3592_14_07_17_1_09_30_19023728.jpeg)

(https://alantani.com/gallery/19/3592_14_07_17_1_08_52_19022855.jpeg)

(https://alantani.com/gallery/19/3592_14_07_17_1_08_50_190211764.jpeg)


(https://alantani.com/gallery/19/3592_14_07_17_1_08_18_190201218.jpeg)


(https://alantani.com/gallery/19/3592_14_07_17_1_08_16_19019414.jpeg)

(https://alantani.com/gallery/19/3592_14_07_17_1_07_21_190101854.jpeg)









and last, the whity thingy on the epoxy ramp on the front grip, it was just for giggles, it looks good on the ramp but its actually a luminescent dust to paint lures for the deep, dont believe me, check this out

(https://alantani.com/gallery/19/3592_14_07_17_1_07_35_190181299.jpeg)

it brigths so intense that it could light up the rod rack drawer when its recently "charged", it has 0% usage on fishing but who cares. :P ;D


Note: for those who noticed bumpy clear coat job, I also used 2k automotive clear coat as "varnish" after taking the black paint on the blank and left a naked graphite blank I stoped as soon as the graphite was visible, I wanted to get the naked look of the graphite, the bumpy clear coat job was made on purpose to add some unique look to the blank, first after sanding a bit the naked blank I put 4-5 coats of 2k clear which were as smooth as rod building epoxy is and next day I poured many drops of 2k clear coat all over the blank when the formula was starting to get thicker while the rod was on the drier turning, took my heat gun to help the drops to run from the top to the bottom on diameter of the blank as soon as I saw the clear about to drop on the bottom I took the excesss out, it seemed to work like it was my idea and I actually liked the final product, all the blank has some kind of smooth collars/rings surface.  



Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Shark Hunter on July 14, 2017, 11:41:22 PM
Great Work Compadre. ;)
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: steelfish on July 15, 2017, 12:43:55 AM
thanks a lot Sharky boy

Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: oldmanjoe on July 15, 2017, 01:14:43 AM
 I think you did a great job .      I like the colors .     Let me ask , why did you go left hand twist ,  most go right hand twist ?    joe
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: steelfish on July 15, 2017, 02:04:37 AM
Quote from: oldmanjoe on July 15, 2017, 01:14:43 AM
I think you did a great job .      I like the colors .     Let me ask , why did you go left hand twist ,  most go right hand twist ?    joe

As far as Í understand, Right twist is to protect the bumper / transition guides with the reel , left twist is to help to align the Line easier while recovering it, you just have to push it a bit to the right with your left thumb then the line tends to return to the left of the spool, I actually tried that on an open field and worked really good with a trini 16
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: oldmanjoe on July 15, 2017, 02:58:06 AM
  Ok i under stand that theory , what i have tried was to clock my first guide 11-  11.30sh so as to favor the left side of the reel .  pushing the line to the right with the thumb .
    This supposedly  gives you  the protection to lay the rod down keeping the reel handle and bumper facing upward .     Just  tidbit info ,no rite or wrong .      joe
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on July 15, 2017, 09:37:19 AM
I like :)
For a spiral rap I also do it to the left - It just seems more natural for line lay. I never just lay my rods down.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Fishy247 on July 15, 2017, 02:39:40 PM
Very cool stuff! Nice to get your practice wraps(aka buddy's rods) out of the way first...lol.
Keep up the good work and cool ideas! I like that glow dust idea. Might have to try that one out...

Mike
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Alto Mare on July 15, 2017, 03:29:21 PM
Cool Alex! That glowing ring should come handy in the dark, might be a good idea to put one on the tip as well on your next build.
Good job!

Sal
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: steelfish on July 15, 2017, 09:39:17 PM
Miles & Sal,  the glow ring could have more use on a bait & wait rod tip, or for  cat fishing rods Í know some even have incorpored a light with  battery
I normally dont fish at night
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Newell Nut on July 15, 2017, 10:39:08 PM
Alex, you just keep raising your bar with great success. That is a cool looking rod and one to test your patience as well with all the scale work. Well done.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: steelfish on July 16, 2017, 02:52:02 PM
Quote from: Newell Nut on July 15, 2017, 10:39:08 PM
.....and one to test your patience as well with all the scale work. Well done.

Tell me about it, I really dont know if I will do all those scales again even on another personal rod.
But it looks goooood!!

Personally I Line the candy apple effect that the blue color got when wrapped over the gold metallic thread
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: STRIPER LOU on July 16, 2017, 03:41:03 PM
Looks great Alex and the color combo is outstanding. Top shelf work as usual!

..................Lou
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: oc1 on February 07, 2021, 05:54:00 AM
Nice stick!  Alex, I saw where you have a good reel for casting on this rod (the 400).  Are you doing any casting with it?  Any comment or opinion about what the acid wrap does to casting distance or accuracy.  The dogma is that acid wrap will not cast well, but I never heard of anybody who actually tried it.  Thanks,
-steve
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Jeri on February 07, 2021, 08:37:57 AM
Another supporter for the left hand spiral, it just seems so natural.

We tried it on some surf rods for a while, too radical for the natives, they thought it was an April Fools joke, but can confirm that the dogma is wrong, little or no difference in casting over a standard casting rod built on the same blank and with similar size guides. Just the actual performance under load is way better than conventional styles. Still have my own prototype acid wrapped surf rod, for the rare occasions that I take out a multiplier and nylon.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Cor on February 07, 2021, 09:14:19 AM
Quote from: Jeri on February 07, 2021, 08:37:57 AM
Another supporter for the left hand spiral, it just seems so natural.

We tried it on some surf rods for a while, too radical for the natives, they thought it was an April Fools joke, but can confirm that the dogma is wrong, little or no difference in casting over a standard casting rod built on the same blank and with similar size guides. Just the actual performance under load is way better than conventional styles. Still have my own prototype acid wrapped surf rod, for the rare occasions that I take out a multiplier and nylon.
I've always wanted to try one but thought the casting would not work very well and it's too much work just for a try.    Have you tried it with a conventional reel setup?    My feeling is that you will get a twisting caused by the tip guide under casting load?    Even the slightest effect on casting would be somewhat awkward as I make many more casts then what I pull fish.....especially this year!   Not caught one fish for over 2 months.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: steelfish on February 07, 2021, 09:58:16 AM
yes , I use that rod mostly to cast spoons and 2oz jigs to spanish macks and seabas, I dont feel any difference or problem versus a regular rod ( all guides at the top of the blank), if the rod Load properly with the lure then you will achieve the same Distance than casting with a regular wrapped rod ( maybe 3-5 yards less if any).
but it feels 2x better this rod acid wrapped when retrieving a fish, feels like figthing a fish with a spinning rod but using a casting reel.

My plan is to make all my personal rods acid wrapped
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: oc1 on February 07, 2021, 10:17:05 AM
Thank you sir.  That's good to know and has me thinking.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Cor on February 07, 2021, 11:18:40 AM
Quote from: oc1 on February 07, 2021, 10:17:05 AM
Thank you sir.  That's good to know and has me thinking.
Ditto.   I'll have to find a 2 piece rod that I can re build, then I can just turn the front section around.

@ steelfish.... you talking about White Seabass?   I know they will take a lure but because they generally deep fish here we catch them on bait....Sardine which is preferred.  You rig a weedless hook on your spoon?   Those fish are so scarce here now I would feel guilty to catch even one.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Rivverrat on February 07, 2021, 04:07:38 PM
        
   I have found doing an acid wrap to lend itself well when when trying to achieve the ultimate lightest build for a particular blank. It allows the use of single foot guides making for an extremely lite tip & build.

  I have yet been able to rip out or deform the guides while using 15 - almost 20 lbs. of drag.  I TRIED !  

  What I'm speaking of here will not work well on fast tapper boat style rods.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Cor on February 07, 2021, 07:34:04 PM
I took a 9 ft Diawa Megaforce  22 lb line, Rod,  that I modified  2014, and use as a light boat rod.  Experimented to see if it could be turned into a spiral wrap.
Decided it would work, cut off two guides and replaced them at the appropriate left side angles and wrapped back on.

Still need to coat with epoxy and will be away with my own Acid Wrapped rod, made in 2 hours.

This rod started its life as a spinning rod and is now nearly back to the same design with the front guides facing downward.   I have not used this rod much as I found it slightly too light, but will see.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Gfish on February 07, 2021, 10:33:31 PM
Cool Alex! That rod is a "GOOOOOOOOAL!!!"
Who was that anouncer for soccer games? A world famous sports call.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Jeri on February 08, 2021, 07:28:49 AM
Quote from: Cor on February 07, 2021, 09:14:19 AM
Quote from: Jeri on February 07, 2021, 08:37:57 AM
Another supporter for the left hand spiral, it just seems so natural.

We tried it on some surf rods for a while, too radical for the natives, they thought it was an April Fools joke, but can confirm that the dogma is wrong, little or no difference in casting over a standard casting rod built on the same blank and with similar size guides. Just the actual performance under load is way better than conventional styles. Still have my own prototype acid wrapped surf rod, for the rare occasions that I take out a multiplier and nylon.
I've always wanted to try one but thought the casting would not work very well and it's too much work just for a try.    Have you tried it with a conventional reel setup?    My feeling is that you will get a twisting caused by the tip guide under casting load?    Even the slightest effect on casting would be somewhat awkward as I make many more casts then what I pull fish.....especially this year!   Not caught one fish for over 2 months.

Hi Cor,

Our work was on the surf rod using a conventional multiplier and nylon, because we were using 9 guides + tip, we could manage the transition from top to bottom more gradually, and this seemed to pay off with control of any blank twisting, as the line really doesn't impart that much load on guides during a cast - if any. Tried it successfully on a range of rods from 5oz right up to 7oz, which was where we saw the greatest acceptance, as the loading on the angler improved so much for Bronzies and the like.

Guide angular movement was 5 degrees for the first guide, then 45 degrees for subsequent guides until on the opposite side of the blank. We even tried options on different sides of the spine of the blank with no apparent difference, thought with multi-piece rods we had to be very careful to make sure we determined the spine on all the sections, and to get correct alignment, such that the spine was always on one side of the blank or the other. Too many multi-piece blanks pay little heed to the alignment of spine, which would definitely induce blank twisting during casting.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Cor on February 08, 2021, 02:29:30 PM
Thanks Jeri,
As I indicated above I went and did a super fast modification on a light 2 piece boat rod.   It is currently on the dryer.   If it does not work I can just as quickly put it back as it was.

The rod had only 7 guides and a tip, one on the back section and 6 on the tip section which was fine for the original setup.    Ignoring the spine completely, I turned the front section around so the guides faced down and then angled the 2 rear guides on the tip, to bring the line up to the original guide on top on the  rear section and to the conventional reel

The lay of the line along the rod seemed acceptable, though to me guides facing down always just feels wrong........ what I am used to.

Photo shows what I did.

PS Have been very busy with all sort of thing, therefore the mess on my workbench. :-[

Sorry Alex, I seem to have unintentionally hijacked your thread, just got a bit carried away
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Rivverrat on February 08, 2021, 03:59:25 PM
Quote from: Jeri on February 08, 2021, 07:28:49 AM


  Too many multi-piece blanks pay little heed to the alignment of spine, which would definitely induce blank twisting during casting.

     This is very true. Built a very expensive, overly priced 5 piece travel rod. The factory wrapped rod was a joke. They had wrapped different section on different sides of the spine. This on a $1200 dollar salt water fly rod.


                           
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: steelfish on February 08, 2021, 06:22:09 PM
Quote from: Jeri on February 07, 2021, 08:37:57 AM
Another supporter for the left hand spiral, it just seems so natural.

nice to see an expert to share the same way to wrap spiral left hand



Quote from: Cor on February 07, 2021, 11:18:40 AM
Ditto.   I'll have to find a 2 piece rod that I can re build, then I can just turn the front section around.

haha, that whats what I first though when I planned to wrap me an spiral rod, seems that 3/4 or more of the job is already done, but my 2pc rods were too light for boat duty, so I went the long route of rewrap a factory rod, its really nice to have a rod built from the scratch but there are many non-expensive factory rods that have good blanks, maybe just take the "cheap" guides out and install new ones of better quality and use you personal choice of thread colors.


Quote from: Cor on February 07, 2021, 11:18:40 AM
@ steelfish.... you talking about White Seabass?   I know they will take a lure but because they generally deep fish here we catch them on bait....Sardine which is preferred.  You rig a weedless hook on your spoon?   Those fish are so scarce here now I would feel guilty to catch even one.

here in my zone we have two or 3 (maybe more) fish of the same family/specie of the SeaBass as:
WhiteSeaBass
Yellowtail curvina (we called it "SeaBass")
orange mouth corvina (gulf curvina)
silver curvina (which is pretty similar to a USA Seatrout )
etc

normally most sportfishermen are interested in Yellowtail curvina and orange mouth corvina, those can grow up to 8-15#, the great Whiteseabass is also pretty Scarce here too (gulf of california) but from time to time you see them as trophy catch.


Quote from: Cor on February 08, 2021, 02:29:30 PM

Sorry Alex, I seem to have unintentionally hijacked your thread, just got a bit carried away

Dont worry amigo, its a pretty interesting chat so, continue as long as you want, you are very welcome to use any my threads as yours.



Quote from: Gfish on February 07, 2021, 10:33:31 PM
Cool Alex! That rod is a "GOOOOOOOOAL!!!"
Who was that anouncer for soccer games? A world famous sports call.
hahaha, that its a difficult question my friend, there are many "famous" sport call announcer that I dont have a clue which one you hear, just as a side note, that soccer team of the rod (my favorite) just played for the Mexican cup championship 1 month ago.... an lost  ::) :(  .

pictures:
-the orange mouth curvina caught on the same "customized" Musky rod using bait, those fish prefer bait 3:1 or more but are more fun to fish on lighter rods and lures.
-nice haul of orange mouth curvinas
-a White SeaBass caught on another boat
-more corvinas caught on lures with an okuma shadow stalker 8ft rod and okuma komodo 364 on a 2oz Krocodile spoon
-sometimes you cast heavier lures as those irons (tadys, salas, etc) on 40lb rod and Baja Special reel looking for a Yellowtail but those corvinas are around
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Jeri on February 09, 2021, 01:10:55 AM
An aspect that we started to investigate when we were messing around with spiral wrapped surf rod, was the actual direction of the wrapping of the blank/carbon. When viewed from the butt end, we were finding that there was a small torsional bias in a clockwise direction, on clockwise wrapped blanks. And this perhaps aimed a lot of our bias towards left hand orientation of the guides.

At the time we only had a 2 piece blank that was wrapped in an anti-clockwise direction, and it never felt to have the torsional bias we experienced on the 1 piece blank that was wrapped the other way round.

There are a lot of variables in blanks, that make it difficult to come up with definitive directions for spiral wrapping. Sometimes it is just a 'feel' of a blank that suggests which would result in the optimum direction of spiral.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Jeri on February 09, 2021, 01:13:51 AM
Hi Cor,

Think that is an ingenious way to quickly test the theory, though with so few guides doing the transition, it might skew the results and provide more questions than answers. Certainly the issue of spine orientation between the two sections might be an issue, one half fighting the other for domination.

You'll have to get out and cast a few lures to see what it feels like, just close the eyes to what it looks like ..... ;)
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Cor on February 09, 2021, 05:44:59 AM
The rod has dried, and looks like I was on my 5th Namibian beer when I positioned the guides, (I have the same feeling as your "locals")

I'll probably only get to test it on Thursday from shore as tomorrow we have too much wind.

On a light stick like this casting max 70 gr and 32 lb line I doubt if Ill feel any effect of twisting or torgue.

Will let you know.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Cor on February 10, 2021, 07:15:01 PM
I went to fish the Acid rod today, from shore under windy conditions.   It is too light for that, but my conclusion is that it casts as well as as it did before with a 55 gr (2 oz) iron and it will work as a boat rod.   Made about 20 casts, I had the feeling that it felt softer in the cast and would have been happier with 50 gr or even a bit less.    As I turned the spine around it may well be softer this way.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: steelfish on February 10, 2021, 08:50:34 PM
Quote from: Cor on February 10, 2021, 07:15:01 PM
I had the feeling that it felt softer in the cast and would have been happier with 50 gr or even a bit less.    As I turned the spine around it may well be softer this way.

that what I trying to say when I said " it feels like using a spinning rod but with a casting reel", wait till you have a fish at the end of the line so see if you feel any difference.

this might not be a technical answer but maybe its because now the line pulls the blank instead of pushing it down.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Jeri on February 10, 2021, 11:46:20 PM
Quote from: Cor on February 10, 2021, 07:15:01 PM
I went to fish the Acid rod today, from shore under windy conditions.   It is too light for that, but my conclusion is that it casts as well as as it did before with a 55 gr (2 oz) iron and it will work as a boat rod.   Made about 20 casts, I had the feeling that it felt softer in the cast and would have been happier with 50 gr or even a bit less.    As I turned the spine around it may well be softer this way.

As said, more questions than answers perhaps............  :)

The mis-match of spine orientations has now possibly confused the issue, or it might have been confused before, being a factory 2 piece.... more confusion and questions.

The only positive point is that it dispelled the myth that spiral wrapped rods are poorer casting machines.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Cor on February 11, 2021, 04:23:27 AM
Quote from: steelfish on February 10, 2021, 08:50:34 PM
Quote from: Cor on February 10, 2021, 07:15:01 PM
I had the feeling that it felt softer in the cast and would have been happier with 50 gr or even a bit less.    As I turned the spine around it may well be softer this way.

that what I trying to say when I said " it feels like using a spinning rod but with a casting reel", wait till you have a fish at the end of the line so see if you feel any difference.

this might not be a technical answer but maybe its because now the line pulls the blank instead of pushing it down.

The tip section of the rod felt weaker and I had to adjust my cast for that. 

I have never used a spinning rod in any serious way so I can't comment on what that feels like.   What I have sometimes done is to experiment with the spine, up or down and that can provides a noticeably stronger side to a blank.    I have used this to determine the "casting" or "pulling" side of the blank I was building.   I don't like soft tipped rods.

It's time the manufacturers start to make blanks without a spine?

Well at least as Jeri says, I now do know that you can cast perfectly well with such a rod.

What I should do is remove the guides again and turn the tip around to the way it was and re position the them in precisely the same way.    That should tell us if it was the spine or the position of the guides that made it feel softer.   Maybe in winter ;D ;D
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Jeri on February 11, 2021, 06:42:07 AM
Quote from: Cor on February 11, 2021, 04:23:27 AM


It's time the manufacturers start to make blanks without a spine?


Just how to achieve that would be a sight to behold.

Having seen the precision cutting and calculations to get a perfect number of wraps on a mandrel, and then the same sheets of carbon wrapped under high pressure, and the end results to achieve a singularly straight and perfectly aligned spine on a blank. I would suggest that it would be near impossible to make such a blank. As at some point you would always have the +1 situation of wraps on the mandrel. Anything else would just be a fudge to obscure the spine or induce a spiralled spine.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: oc1 on February 11, 2021, 07:37:47 AM
Quote from: Jeri on February 11, 2021, 06:42:07 AM
Just how to achieve that would be a sight to behold.
It's not a problem for a computer controlled filament winding machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZwvRRoR1xw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZwvRRoR1xw)

You can even do it by hand at home:

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=27258.0 (https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=27258.0)

Sorry the photos are screwed up and you will have to click the links to see them.
-s
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: steelfish on February 11, 2021, 08:13:06 PM
Quote from: Cor on February 11, 2021, 04:23:27 AM

It's time the manufacturers start to make blanks without a spine?

I dont think it will happen ever, 95% of the market didnt care about spine on their rods, most of that part maybe 50-70% are cheap or middle priced rods, on the expensive ones many guys care more about "the brand" on the blank that the real improvements on them and just few care about how it perform, I might be wrong as always but only few some crazy guys (ohana and few others) can talk for days about spines on the rod.
and if by chance manufacturers come with a blank without spine that would be because they found a way to make them cheaper than the old regular way  ;D ;D


Quote from: steelfish on February 10, 2021, 08:50:34 PM
......What I should do is remove the guides again and turn the tip around to the way it was and re position the them in precisely the same way.    That should tell us if it was the spine or the position of the guides that made it feel softer.   Maybe in winter ;D ;D
on your 2nd sentence from your comment you have the answer, Jeri which is our rod guru guy already told us that the number of guides on a blank and the position of them will affect how the blank feels and perform.

no need to unwrap an rewrap those guides on winter, use that time to wrap a new rod 1pc 7ft instead on acid wrap and test it with the guides attached with masking tape before wrapping them and epoxy them.

Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on February 11, 2021, 08:55:01 PM
At the risk of sounding dumb, wouldnt a rod with no spine ay all feel roughly similar to one where the builder missed the spine?
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: philaroman on February 11, 2021, 09:14:48 PM
no valid opinions here...  just questions & conjecture:
on a 2-pc, shouldn't the two guides on either side of the ferrule be completely down & lined up?
i.e., can you have the ferrule in the middle of the spiral?
I would imagine it doesn't effect casting, but would twist under heavy load
guessing that any 2-pc w/ butt section too short for complete 180*, is not a good candidate for spiral

Cor, might be a good idea test that before you re-wrap entire tip section


Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on February 11, 2021, 08:55:01 PM
At the risk of sounding dumb, wouldnt a rod with no spine ay all feel roughly similar to one where the builder missed the spine?

I'd guess it would be like many equidistant/symmetrical spines,
so no matter where you put the guides, they line up w/ one of them
...there's an idea -- 6 spines every 60*, like split cane
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: oldmanjoe on February 11, 2021, 09:20:13 PM
 ??? ??? ???     If youall can make up your mind on what side to put the guides on after you map the stick , go old school and put them on both sides  with the adjustable tip.      ;D ;D ;D  Yer i got rain gear in hand ......         :) :)
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Rivverrat on February 11, 2021, 09:24:14 PM
  
          Now Joe, that rod is just sillier than a turd flute ... Jeff
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: philaroman on February 11, 2021, 09:25:47 PM
:o :o :o   what's that -- glass/boo/wood set-prevention?
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: steelfish on February 11, 2021, 10:22:15 PM
Quote from: philaroman on February 11, 2021, 09:14:48 PM
guessing that any 2-pc w/ butt section too short for complete 180*, is not a good candidate for spiral


valid point there, but depending on the rod lenght it could be addressed with no problemo.
but for make a 2pc casting rod a true spiral wraped one the butt sections needs to have the complete transition of the striper guide at 0* to the 3rd or 4th guide at 180* then the tip section of the rod will have all the running guides wrapped at the bottom on the correct spine (ala spinning way).

I actually have a long 9ft Fenwick SST rod (I use them as light surf fishing rods) factory wrapped on spiral guides, all the transition guides are in the butt section with short space of 4" between them and the tip section have the rest guides normally spaced to the tip.
that way the down force of the spiral is always on a steady 1 piece of the blank that cannot slide at anyway, but on a normally spaced 2pc rod IT could a problem to have all the transition guides on the butt section as you said.

Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: oldmanjoe on February 11, 2021, 10:27:42 PM
  Boo stick , load and set prevention ...
 I do have old school spirals  , were the stripper  was set on zero or -12 degrees  and we went right hand because when we laid the pole down reel handle up and transition guide up also , not laying on the guide .
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: oldmanjoe on February 11, 2021, 10:48:27 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on February 11, 2021, 08:55:01 PM
At the risk of sounding dumb, wouldnt a rod with no spine ay all feel roughly similar to one where the builder missed the spine?
Good question , I think no " harmonic  changes "
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on February 12, 2021, 03:31:27 PM
Also, wouldnt trying to avoid any overlap open the possibility of having less than a full wrap? Instead of 'the whole blank has 5 layers but this sliver has 6' it could be 'most of the blank has 5 layers except this sliver with 4.' And wouldnt that then function like a spine? The anti spine...

Again, still speaking from a place of zero experience. Typical.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Jeri on February 13, 2021, 02:51:26 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on February 12, 2021, 03:31:27 PM
Also, wouldnt trying to avoid any overlap open the possibility of having less than a full wrap? Instead of 'the whole blank has 5 layers but this sliver has 6' it could be 'most of the blank has 5 layers except this sliver with 4.' And wouldnt that then function like a spine? The anti spine...

Again, still speaking from a place of zero experience. Typical.

That 4 layer area would become the predominant soft spot in the blank axis, and would therefore move the spine 180 degrees, to balance out the soft axis.
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Cor on February 24, 2021, 08:00:44 PM
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=22222.msg383933#msg383933
I cought 3 small fish round 5 lb each on this rod yesterday, Two Skipjacks, one small Yellowtail and on Bonita, all from a boat.
It all worked, but better then it was.......  I don't know ??? ???
Part of the problem was I had a lousy reel on the rod and the skippies were strong!
Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: steelfish on February 24, 2021, 09:15:52 PM
Quote from: Cor on February 24, 2021, 08:00:44 PM

It all worked, but better then it was.......  I don't know ??? ???

well, according to what I have read and my short time using acid wrapped rods what you describe its mainly the reason this all acid wrap style didnt or havent really convinced more fishermen to used it, the theory why it should be better over a regular casting rod is there but in the real world it really depends in many factors to feel a big improvement, as is the rod is going to be used for casting small lures only, or slow pitch jigging, bait fishing, trolling, vertican jigging, etc. you can have all your rods Spiral wrapped on all those fishing styles but you might not feel much improvement over a regular wrapped casting rod in all of them.

Title: Re: First acid wrap and first dragon Scale
Post by: Cor on February 25, 2021, 08:08:26 AM
Quote from: steelfish on February 24, 2021, 09:15:52 PM
Quote from: Cor on February 24, 2021, 08:00:44 PM

It all worked, but better then it was.......  I don't know ??? ???

well, according to what I have read and my short time using acid wrapped rods what you describe its mainly the reason this all acid wrap style didnt or havent really convinced more fishermen to used it, the theory why it should be better over a regular casting rod is there but in the real world it really depends in many factors to feel a big improvement, as is the rod is going to be used for casting small lures only, or slow pitch jigging, bait fishing, trolling, vertican jigging, etc. you can have all your rods Spiral wrapped on all those fishing styles but you might not feel much improvement over a regular wrapped casting rod in all of them.

In theory it all has to do with the 7mm height of the tip (or front guides) which cause a twisting motion on the rod, which a spinning reel does not have as those guides & tip sit underneath the blank.    I have fished for a few year, always with reel and guides on top, has this ever bothered me....no.   In fact I was never even aware of this until some bright spark brought it to my attention and I started to look at my tip when I had a fish on.  Maybe when using very strong rods where the rod resists the twisting motion could you feel it.

The above rod has a soft tip, so its unlikely ill feel it.    I'll use it again but with a proper reel next time.

PS   I fish in a Panga size boat which is often chaos at best.   We have a bunch of rods between 3 guys all close together upright in rod holders.    Everytime my eye caught this rod  my brain told me the line is twisted around something and I need to straighten it out before I have a tangle when I urgently need the rod. :D