After a failure today I believe that drag upgrades to Penn SS reels may be a waste of time. I just upgraded my 850SS and set the drag at just under 15 lb by slipping the drag as a 15 lb dumbbell started to leave the ground.
Today I hooked up what appeared to be a large red snapper that headed for the reef and when I tried to put on the brakes the handle sheared off in the reel. If a handle shaft can't take nearly 15 lb of drag then what is the point of upgrading?
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0302_zps85f00642.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0302_zps85f00642.jpg.html)
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/IMG_0300_zpsf5db1db9.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/IMG_0300_zpsf5db1db9.jpg.html)
Ouch, I'm planning on fishing my 7500SS as a 30 pound reel @ 10# drag.
The reel can handle the additional drag numbers, don't count it out just yet. Your problem is not a new one, Penn was aware that's why they made the pivot beefier:
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/043_zpsa5cef9a5.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/043_zpsa5cef9a5.jpg.html)
The one on the left happened on one of my reels at 10 lbs, the one in the middle is for a 9500ss and the one on the right for the 750ss.
put a drill to it and go clockwise, that pivot will work itself out of the gear.
Mine sheared off at the gear. Can't make that beefier. Not sure if I can get it out. No gears are available either.
Yes, that's where they usually fail, even with the gear lip. A spinner gets fished a little different than a conventional, on a big fish you use the rod to help bring it in, the line gets retrieved when the rod is lowered.
Put the gears in a box and send them up, I already worked on that problem and it would be easier if I did it.
I'm going to send you a new set that will take the heavier pivot, the gears that you have now won't work.
Better yet, put the complete reel in the box along with the handle I just sent you and I'll take it from there.
Should be able to clamp the gear in a wood-faced vise -- drill a small hole -- then ease it out by hand -- with an easy-out bit attached to a t-bar handle or ratchet.
You will still need part #15B-850, the standard pivot. The 850 & 750 use the same part number. My parts only go up to the 15B-650...and I do have that.
I might have some handles with the correct pivot already attached -- but I have no way of knowing for sure without the reel in hand. You would be welcome to whatever I have that may work.
There should be someone else on the board with the right part.
Best of luck--
Fred
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 17, 2014, 12:26:30 AM
Yes, that's where they usually fail, even with the gear lip. A spinner gets fished a little different than a conventional, on a big fish you use the rod to help bring it in, the line gets retrieved when the rod is lowered.
Put the gears in a box and send them up, I already worked on that problem and it would be easier if I did it.
I'm going to send you a new set that will take the heavier pivot, the gears that you have now won't work.
Better yet, put the complete reel in the box along with the handle I just sent you and I'll take it from there.
Okay Ole Buddy, it will be in the mail Monday. Thank you very much for saving the day and my reel.
Dwight
No problem Bud.
As I said earlier, you're not the first:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=8753.msg77697#msg77697
Fred, thanks for always trying to help out, you're a good man ;).
From the looks of things down your end, it appears you don't need much, but just in case you get into a jam, give me a shout, you never know....
Sal... You're a righteous individual. :)
Same here, Sal --
If I have it, it's yours...
Best,
Fred
Not a good outcome. Can I offer an opinion, here in NZ as most places when setting drags particularly on game reels we use a spring scale and pull the line of the reel at a fast walk. Lifting a dead weight will give you a much heavier drag than the 15lbs you have, that's the weight it takes to start the drag not pull off line at a good speed you have probably more like 20lbs drag at the speed a fish will run. These older reels unfortunately will not allow you to crank like a winch at the drag setting you can achieve. It is really important to crank on the down stroke. I had the unfortunate experience of hooking a 100kg Striped Marlin on a 7500 Spinfisher catching bait wow I had not a chance of stopping it eventually ran over the line chasing it. Sometimes its just horses for courses. I sure hope you can salvage the reel.
Jeremy
Good point on startup vs running drag settings. I wonder how much more drag was at the reel to pull fifteen pounds at the rod tip.
I might be wrong, I do know that some stainless steel don't stick to magnets, but this older pivot shown on the handle appears to be aluminum :-\.
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/001_zpsd41913af.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/001_zpsd41913af.jpg.html)
I tried to grind it and it was very soft, felt softer than wood.
Floating doc, on my spinners I've increased the drags 5 to 7 lbs, the reel choosen has a lot to do with it, this particular reel could handle it. More travel with the drags will give you a much smoother reel at the numbers you where fishing it prior to the upgrades. If you get carried away, you could control it by using the correct line...These are some nice reels, too bad they don't copy from them.
Most SS is non magnetic and soft, but not softer than wood.
Well, not all wood is soft ;D, there is a type called iron wood that we need special blades to cut it.
The pivot on the left is stainless, and sticking to the magnet, that one must have some other types of metal mixed in.
That older pivot that you see on the handle is very soft, the ones from a later model, still being a 750ss and not a 7500ss, is much stronger and it still doesn't stick to the magnet. :-\
Quote from: locknut on August 17, 2014, 04:41:35 AM
Not a good outcome. Can I offer an opinion, here in NZ as most places when setting drags particularly on game reels we use a spring scale and pull the line of the reel at a fast walk. Lifting a dead weight will give you a much heavier drag than the 15lbs you have, that's the weight it takes to start the drag not pull off line at a good speed you have probably more like 20lbs drag at the speed a fish will run. These older reels unfortunately will not allow you to crank like a winch at the drag setting you can achieve. It is really important to crank on the down stroke. I had the unfortunate experience of hooking a 100kg Striped Marlin on a 7500 Spinfisher catching bait wow I had not a chance of stopping it eventually ran over the line chasing it. Sometimes its just horses for courses. I sure hope you can salvage the reel.
Jeremy
I also ran away with the weight on the ground and drag stripped nicely with 30 lb line. With snapper there is no pumping action with the rod because the fish is charging straight down with drag stripping off. All that I did with the handle was make an attempt to get some line while pulling hard and never got an inch. It snapped very easy. I saw a 750SS handle break off Saturday and 3 weeks ago I saw a 750 bring in a 50 lb AJ but AJs run around like a wild horse and don't necessarily charge for the bottom for a cutoff.
The handle is just simply too weak of a design in my opinion or just faulty material but I am confident Dr Sal can work some magic.
Dwight, like Sal said the older pivots are weak. The newer stepped pivot is a lot stronger. It is if its screwed in the left side of the reel. If it is screwed in the right side, the smaller diameter threads can snap just like the older pivot. With your guns, I'm not sure any of them are safe. ;D Bob
Maybe I should quit working out so much. My ninja wife just told me to get off the computer and go the gym. Can't win. :-\
Did a little more research and looking at the end of the pivot pin that broke with a 20X I can see that it is chrome plated brass. Pulled the handle off of my 750 and filed a groove in the end of it. Chrome plated brass on that one too. Then took the 850 and tied to a scale and pulled hard and only went to 13 lb so these handles are definitely flawed in design. Looks like 750 and 850 will be restricted to beach use only.
Bought a Conflict 8000 for one of our regulars who died after getting stint surgery so that reel has been in my closet since I never saw him again. Pulled that handle and it is larger in diameter and looks like the handle in the 9500 that I got from Sal. That one is on a surf rod and I don't want to risk messing it up so the Conflict is headed off shore Tuesday.
Since I bought it for old salty and good friend it may be a lucky reel. ;)
Quote from: Newell Nut on August 17, 2014, 06:30:56 PM
Maybe I should quit working out so much. My ninja wife just told me to get off the computer and go the gym. Can't win. :-\
Did a little more research and looking at the end of the pivot pin that broke with a 20X I can see that it is chrome plated brass. Pulled the handle off of my 750 and filed a groove in the end of it. Chrome plated brass on that one too. Then took the 850 and tied to a scale and pulled hard and only went to 13 lb so these handles are definitely flawed in design. Looks like 750 and 850 will be restricted to beach use only.
Bought a Conflict 8000 for one of our regulars who died after getting stint surgery so that reel has been in my closet since I never saw him again. Pulled that handle and it is larger in diameter and looks like the handle in the 9500 that I got from Sal. That one is on a surf rod and I don't want to risk messing it up so the Conflict is headed off shore Tuesday.
Since I bought it for old salty and good friend it may be a lucky reel. ;)
Nice to have anything from old salty. ;)
Give it a chance and I will change your mind on the 750. By the way a 850 is a 750 with a wider rotor.
You said you've seen brass, I didn't see it on mine :-\.
Sal, how to feel the original SS models compare to the current version? I know the newer Penn spinners have the keyed and greased CF drags, but what about durability without upgrading anything but the drag?
I understand the technique for fishing with a spinner. Pump and reel is the method, the spinner is not used to winch in line as with a conventional reel. Nonetheless, if I hook a big snapper, cobia, grouper, etc. and it makes a dive for the reef, is the new reel more likely to hold up when I lay back on the rod and begin to palm that spool?
Quote from: Newell Nut on August 17, 2014, 06:30:56 PM
Maybe I should quit working out so much. My ninja wife just told me to get off the computer and go the gym. Can't win. :-\
Did a little more research and looking at the end of the pivot pin that broke with a 20X I can see that it is chrome plated brass. Pulled the handle off of my 750 and filed a groove in the end of it. Chrome plated brass on that one too. Then took the 850 and tied to a scale and pulled hard and only went to 13 lb so these handles are definitely flawed in design. Looks like 750 and 850 will be restricted to beach use only.
Bought a Conflict 8000 for one of our regulars who died after getting stint surgery so that reel has been in my closet since I never saw him again. Pulled that handle and it is larger in diameter and looks like the handle in the 9500 that I got from Sal. That one is on a surf rod and I don't want to risk messing it up so the Conflict is headed off shore Tuesday.
Since I bought it for old salty and good friend it may be a lucky reel. ;)
Wow that's crazy about your friend. I just had a stent put in my right leg and my left leg was rooted out with an Angiogram and I just bought a Penn Conflict 8000..!!
Quote from: floating doc on August 17, 2014, 11:00:14 PM
Sal, how to feel the original SS models compare to the current version? I know the newer Penn spinners have the keyed and greased CF drags, but what about durability without upgrading anything but the drag?
I understand the technique for fishing with a spinner. Pump and reel is the method, the spinner is not used to winch in line as with a conventional reel. Nonetheless, if I hook a big snapper, cobia, grouper, etc. and it makes a dive for the reef, is the new reel more likely to hold up when I lay back on the rod and begin to palm that spool?
Floating doc, it wouldn't be fair because you are comparing the SS reel that has proven itself for over 40 years, to a reel that has been around for only two years, we will both need to wait and see if the newer ones hold up. I would be more concerned about parts availability than the reel failing, from looking at the V series it will definitely need replacement parts more often than the SS, and I'm not saying it's a bad reel, just a different design.
The SS reel wouldn't need as much, simply because there isn't much going on in that reel.
The SS parts were available up to a few months ago, now they're getting hard to find, I've been talking too much here ;D.
Still, we might be able to fix that, but a little more time is needed.
We already have stainless dogs and ratchets, Bryan is looking into a 5+1 kit for those.
We also have and working on other ideas, but have too much going on at the moment, one thing at a time. ;D
The next spinner for me will be a Penn Torque25 with 80 lb of drag.
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/More-Realistic-Popeye-02-560x858_zpsc1d23c5e.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/More-Realistic-Popeye-02-560x858_zpsc1d23c5e.jpg.html) ;D ;D
Quote from: handi2 on August 17, 2014, 11:23:06 PM
Quote from: Newell Nut on August 17, 2014, 06:30:56 PM
Maybe I should quit working out so much. My ninja wife just told me to get off the computer and go the gym. Can't win. :-\
Did a little more research and looking at the end of the pivot pin that broke with a 20X I can see that it is chrome plated brass. Pulled the handle off of my 750 and filed a groove in the end of it. Chrome plated brass on that one too. Then took the 850 and tied to a scale and pulled hard and only went to 13 lb so these handles are definitely flawed in design. Looks like 750 and 850 will be restricted to beach use only.
Bought a Conflict 8000 for one of our regulars who died after getting stint surgery so that reel has been in my closet since I never saw him again. Pulled that handle and it is larger in diameter and looks like the handle in the 9500 that I got from Sal. That one is on a surf rod and I don't want to risk messing it up so the Conflict is headed off shore Tuesday.
Since I bought it for old salty and good friend it may be a lucky reel. ;)
Wow that's crazy about your friend. I just had a stent put in my right leg and my left leg was rooted out with an Angiogram and I just bought a Penn Conflict 8000..!!
This was Mr. Bill Smock who could really catch some nice fish and he was never sick but he was starting to tire easily. At 89 his system just could not take the strain for surgery. He used to tell me about the days when he was a Corsair pilot a long time ago. Not sure when he started fishing but he loved it and was good at it. We sure miss him.
Just put the conflict on the rod and yes I lifted the 15 lb dumbbell to set it. ;D
(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a526/dwebb49/RIPMar62014_zps08ab3382.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dwebb49/media/RIPMar62014_zps08ab3382.jpg.html)
Dwight, thank you so much for sharing this picture. I'm so glad that you're going to be keeping that reel. It might not have meant as much to me, but you're going to remember Bill every time you use it.
I'm sure sorry I didn't get to know him.
I didn't get it at fist, you purchased that reel for Mr. Smock, too bad he left us. If you remember I requested a photo of Mr. Smock when you were telling me about him, I wanted to see what he looked like and this was the photo. I would have loved to have met Mr. Smock and fish next to him :(, may he rest in peace.
You're a lucky man Dwight, for having the opportunity to fish with old timers, we could all learn a lot from them, as I'm sure you did.
Keep that reel in top shape, I'm sure the good old memories will come back every time you use it. ;)
The trouble is that on the quest for the holy grail of reels, when you find one it will only transfer any problems to the next weakest link. This could be the line, hooks, fish or angler depending on the circumstances. For example if you get a reel that is rated at 50lb drag and spool it with 50lb braid and have arms capable of holding on to it the chances are your going to pull the hook from the fish's mouth.
Good technique will land more fish than sheer strength alone, the proof of this is seeing kids with photos of marlin they have caught there is no way they can out muscle a fish who's shadow weighs more than they do.
Rgds
Mark
Quote from: Alto Mare on August 18, 2014, 02:10:52 AM
I didn't get it at fist, you purchased that reel for Mr. Smock, too bad he left us. If you remember I requested a photo of Mr. Smock when you were telling me about him, I wanted to see what he looked like and this was the photo. I would have loved to have met Mr. Smock and fish next to him :(, may he rest in peace.
You're a lucky man Dwight, for having the opportunity to fish with old timers, we could all learn a lot from them, as I'm sure you did.
Keep that reel in top shape, I'm sure the good old memories will come back every time you use it. ;)
Funny thing Sal is that at 65 I am a kid next to the guys in there 80s. Bill was 89 and lived a healthy life style with food and exercise and was never ill until near the end. He always wore a big smile no matter if the fishing was poor or great. If he fought a heavy fish he did not sit down. He put the hook back in the water. I have seen young smokers gasping for air and were done for the day after one heavy fish fight. Bill was a tough guy and a happy guy.
We have another that it 87 and has survived throat cancer from smoking. His legs are really weak now and his fingers are full of arthritis so I tie his hooks and leaders for him when he is on the boat. Frank is another happy guy and a tough guy.
And the legendary Captain Al Coley. At 81 he is tough as nails and has had a horrible life with injuries and surgeries and keeps on going. Al is an extremely tough guy with sort of an abrasive manner of speech so he is either loved by those that understand he wants you to be successful or hated by those that just don't get his intention. A real no nonsense kind of guy and a truly great fisherman.
I am very fortunate to have had my time with Bill and very fortunate to fish with Al and Frank as these guys have so much to share about life.
The two most important things is to have a smile and to be tough as nails no matter what life throws at you. Just keep picking yourself up when you fall. As the old saying goes "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger".
Dwight
This pic is of a Fin Nor 100, a Saragosa 14000f and a PENN 7500SS and their pivots.
The 7500SS pivot is the same thickness as the Saragosa and thicker than the Fin Nor`s.
I think the PENN`s pivot should be strong enough as the two other reels both claim over 40lb of drag.
I realise that the pivot metals could vary, just thought it may be of interest.
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/P1020575_zps8ac8a6e3.jpg)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/P1020574_zps2d7ff233.jpg)
The Saragosa weighs 846gms
The Fin Nor weighs 844gms
The 7500SS weighs 720gms
Basto
I have one of each pictured as well as couple of big Cabos and a penn battle, that I like a lot, I alternate them all, it's more about the Rods catching the big fish I have spazzed out and twisted handles off when I was learning how to do it while keeping the reel alive.
I torture test all brands of equipment, my VS is almost indestructible so far.
material used has a lot to do with it. Not related, but I have two 3/8" bolts on my bump truck, when I purchased the truck, I told the dealer that I didn't trust the size, those are the pins that the bed rides on.
He told me that they were designed with material able to handle the job, 18 years later it's still doing good.
The pivot on the earlier SS series wasn't as strong as the later ones.
I have read that the earlier SS was the better model because of the brass main gear, but I think I prefer the later model with a good pivot.
I have had my 6500ss for many years now and it has done a lot of work and the aluminium gear still looks good.
Having said that, I just bought a 850ss that has not arrived yet. Don`t know what gear or pivot it has yet. I think these are all great reels.
Basto
Basto, if we get enough interest we could probably get someone to make us some heat treated stainless pivots for the 650-750 and 850ss early models. I could use a few myself.
I might be game, but only if I can get some after hours time on the CNC lathe I run at work.
Quote from: basto on October 27, 2014, 08:04:58 PM
I have read that the earlier SS was the better model because of the brass main gear, but I think I prefer the later model with a good pivot.
I have had my 6500ss for many years now and it has done a lot of work and the aluminium gear still looks good.
Having said that, I just bought a 850ss that has not arrived yet. Don`t know what gear or pivot it has yet. I think these are all great reels.
Basto
That is the same impression I have Basto. I have a 6500, 7500, 8500 and 9500. All have the brass gears except for the 6500. I am upgrading it to brass gears as well with a little help from the Boss! All with Brass gears and the beefier pivot.
Sounds like the perfect Spinfisher!
My 7500ss has the original bronze gears, and I swapped the bronze gears from an 850ss into my 8500ss which had an aluminium main gear.
Rgds
Mark
I just noticed that Scott does carry a replacement pivot for the earlier models, I'm sure those are much stronger than the earlier soft ones.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/15B-850.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/15B-850.aspx)
Basto, don't get rid of the older brass gears just yet, those are of a much better quality than the newer brass ones that will take the larger pivot.
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
I was doing some tinkering last night, and found out that my 6500 to 650 gear swap requires new bearings as well. You can't just swap the main gear alone. You have to change the pinion and the main bearings in my case. The main bearings are the same as the 550. Smaller ID.
Sal, did they make the 550 with bronze gears?
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_25881_zps759753c4.jpg)
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 28, 2014, 10:33:41 AM
I just noticed that Scott does carry a replacement pivot for the earlier models, I'm sure those are much stronger than the earlier soft ones.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/15B-850.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/15B-850.aspx)
Basto, don't get rid of the older brass gears just yet, those are of a much better quality than the newer brass ones that will take the larger pivot.
Don`t worry Sal. I would never get rid of any brass gears. I don`t want to fish any of my SSreels. I just like to collect them and bring them back to good original condition.
I have a 6,7, and (8 on the way.) Just need my 9 now.