For some reason it seems like a lot of the discussion about the Suzuki special is about the 9'6" variety.
Well I'm in the process of building a rod using the lighter 10' blank. I haven't finished it yet, guides are taped on but still moving around a bit as i fine tune for max casting. So far I'm tossing an otherwise unweighted tennis ball about 75 yds on my first draft of guide locations.
And all I can say is dang this is quite a rod! It casts as well as can be hoped, and while i have not fought a fish on it yet, i have fought a few trees while test casting. It seems like it's gonna be a lot of fun.
Most my talk of this rod has been about my plans to decorate it (see thread in generalized fishing rods subforum called "epoxy art") but im quickly realizing that how it looks is the least important part of this thing.
I saw the machine test for the heavier 9'6" version, has any such thing been recorded for the 10' version?
Ok, rod is built. Gonna hopefully get to fight something with it soon, but it casts really well and the action feels like it's gonna be a lot of fun to use.
Also i can't get over how light it is compared to just about every rod of comparable size and specs I've ever felt. I actually added a bit of weight under the butt cap to balance it out, and it's still quite light.
These Black Hole rods have become very popular here where I live. I have not see the Suzuki models around but various others and they all seem strong and cast extremely well.
Light is good, don't worry about it.
Quote from: Cor on May 14, 2021, 02:44:48 PM
Light is good, don't worry about it.
Lighter is better. Part of why I picked this one is its the lightest 10 footer under like $200 for the blank that isn't a total noodle.
I was test casting last night with a 1oz spoon. Was wondering why I didnt see the splash in the lake. It was because I was completely overshooting the lake. I realized it when my lure got caught in the trees on the other side. Via google earth those trees are over 100 yds away. I think I can do even better, but i gotta learn the feel of that rod first.
Is that Suzuki a 2 piece rod? 100yds with a one ounce spoon? Dang! Might have to get one
Did you build it reel down style?
Quote from: Swami805 on May 14, 2021, 05:24:11 PM
Is that Suzuki a 2 piece rod? 100yds with a one ounce spoon? Dang! Might have to get one
It is a 2 piece, with a lot of overlap.
I've been doing most my test casting with a tennis ball. Compared to that the spoon flew.
Quote from: jurelometer on May 14, 2021, 09:08:20 PM
Did you build it reel down style?
Not quite. I used a 12" cork butt, with about 40" from the top of the threads up reel seat to the first guide. So basically normal rod but longer and not necessarily heavier. Its only rated for a 2oz lure, so I don't feel like that's a very extreme build.
Got to try it out this weekend. Fish werent super active where I was so I didnt get to give what I'd consider a full or thorough test, but I'm pretty happy with it. All I got was a 16 redfish a 28" sail cat and a 15 mangrove snapper, plus a few regular catfish but those dont count.I was throwing freeline shrimp (on the small end for what I uzually get) a good 30 yds, but I couldn't get a half oz bucktail out past 50 yds. Heavier lures flew considerably further.
I wanna land some bigger stuff before I give a full synopsis but I found it very fun to fight fish with, and quite sensitive.
I'm very happy with this purchase.
and.... where are the pictures of your rod?
how many guides did you used and which model of guides?
pics or never happened!! ;D ;D
Quote from: steelfish on May 17, 2021, 05:53:25 PM
and.... where are the pictures of your rod?
how many guides did you used and which model of guides?
pics or never happened!! ;D ;D
Was delaying pics til I finish decoration. But it has 11 guides total. all Fuji alconites with the polished finish.
1 CMNAG-30J
1 KLAG 20J
1 KLAG 12J
1 LYAG 6
7 LAG 6
1 TFST titanium SiC tip.
I find in my limited experience the tip and the lowest guide take the most abuse, which is why I opted for a double foot lowest guide and titanium tip.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on May 17, 2021, 06:10:31 PM
I find in my limited experience the tip and the lowest guide take the most abuse, which is why I opted for a double foot lowest guide and titanium tip.
thats correct, nice setup of guides
https://youtu.be/ESrNfW9V5mI
If a video of somebody pulling on a redfish is an demonstration of a rod's capabilities, lets take a look at the competition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6_fuouiR7E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6_fuouiR7E)
I don't want to sound condescending, but the Spongebob model is sort of for for the newbies. I prefer to fish the classics myself, especially the Zebco Snoopy outfits.
-J
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on May 17, 2021, 06:10:31 PM
Was delaying pics til I finish decoration. But it has 11 guides total. all Fuji alconites with the polished finish.
1 CMNAG-30J
1 KLAG 20J
1 KLAG 12J
1 LYAG 6
7 LAG 6
1 TFST titanium SiC tip.
I find in my limited experience the tip and the lowest guide take the most abuse, which is why I opted for a double foot lowest guide and titanium tip.
Overhead or spin build? Feels like a lot of guides if it's spin.
Quote from: jurelometer on May 17, 2021, 11:50:12 PM
I don't want to sound condescending, but the Spongebob model is sort of for for the newbies. I prefer to fish the classics myself, especially the Zebco Snoopy outfits.
-J
I'd say the value of such a video is seeing the action of the rod, how and when it bends, etc. Anyone can catch any fish on any rod if one has the skill and patience, yet we don't all fish spongebob rods.
With that said I won't feel I've properly tested a rod til I fight something big (for the rod) on it.
Quote from: boon on May 18, 2021, 01:22:20 AM
Overhead or spin build? Feels like a lot of guides if it's spin.
Team spin it to win it. It doesn't feel excessive. If 9 on a 7 footer is normal 11 on a 10 footer could likely stand to be a bit more aggressive.
among my factory-made w/ well-spaced Fuji:
8+tip -- 10' Fast SSH 8-15#
7+tip -- 8'6" Mod/Fast SSH 6-10# & 7'6" Fast Inshore 8-15#
faster/heavier rods would need FEWER guides, if anything (12' H Surf -- 6+tip)
If it works it works right?
I just noted Black Hole build them as 7+tip and wondered if there was any particular reason for building it that way.
Quote from: boon on May 18, 2021, 07:28:40 AM
If it works it works right?
I just noted Black Hole build them as 7+tip and wondered if there was any particular reason for building it that way.
There's a lot of right answers out there. Me doing things a certain way based on schools of thought that resonate with me doesnt mean other approaches are wrong.
A few differences can account for the different # of guides. For one, if I recall correctly the one BH USA sells premade has a rear grip nearly triple the length of mine. So I have more blank to cover with guides. In addition, I look at how the line tracks the blank as the rod bends to various degrees, and the number I went with was what I found necessary to get it where I want it. Also, a semi-outdated belief still exists that it's friction on the guides that steal power from a cast, when the use of high speed cameras has informed us the real issue is the line slapping the blank. But many fishermen don't know this. And those fishermen wanna buy a rod that looks like what they expect a good rod to look like. BH USA is in the business of selling rods. Market forces tend to drive the evolution of product design more than pure performance does. This is nothing new or unique to this company or this industry in general. I'm just glad they also sell blanks.
https://youtu.be/sAO-SDSjs2U
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on May 18, 2021, 01:13:00 PM
I look at how the line tracks the blank as the rod bends to various degrees, and the number I went with was what I found necessary to get it where I want it. Also, a semi-outdated belief still exists that it's friction on the guides that steal power from a cast, when the use of high speed cameras has informed us the real issue is the line slapping the blank.
I recall reading some post from our surf fishing guru from SA, the one and only Jeri, he was saying (dont quote me but its what I understood) that we need to try to put the less guides on a rod but in a logic way of course, specially if you are using a high tech graphite blank, why? because you need to let the blank to do its job when casting, when fighting a fish, etc, the more guides you put on it the most restrictions you add to the action of the blank, but as you said (Jason) every rodbuilder think different, I have seen light 7'10" UC blanks with 16 guides on it 12 of them single foot and titanium frame but still a bit different style of build, while a short 5.5" casting jigging rod can have 9 guides to keep the line away from the blank but some guys would built it on acid wrap and put only 6 guides on it, so with that said, I think 11 guides on a 10ft rod are not that many specially if the last half of the blank is extremely flexible and you want a smooth flow on the flex all the way of the blank but maybe thats the reason you had to add a bit of weight on the butt to balanced it out.
I'd be willing to bet that my 11 fuji guides (of which 10 are single foot and 7 are quite tiny) weigh less than the 7 double foot guides BH USA is using. And probably create a rigid condition on less total blank length than the 7 double footers as well. But not having seen a completed BH rod I can't say that for certain. None of this is to be taken as a negative statement about BH USA. We're just talking about stylistic differences.
We were debating whether we use single foot guides or double foot guides for 10' Suzuki rods. We decided to use double foot guides as single foot guide might not be strong enough for big fish.
(Almost) finished product. Just gotta fix that gap.
https://youtu.be/hr2uQwXtBsk (https://youtu.be/hr2uQwXtBsk)
11+ tip seems a little over the top for a 10' long rod, we build a light surf spin rod, that is 12' long and find it is optimum with 8 + tip - casting 2-3oz lures. But then our blank is much more 'J' curve that what appears to be a 'very' C curve blank. Added to the fact that perhaps our J curve blank will suffer the first guide being near 58" up the rod from the reel seat.
Of the guides chosen, I think you missed the opportunity to try a more KR Concept design, rather than the conventional route that you have gone, a KR design might have yielded better performance both in power and distance. Our 12', starts with a KL20H, which is more than adequate for 25lb braid and 50lb braid leader, and yields very good distances.
I have noticed this preference for the US market preferring more 'C' curve blanks, than 'J' curve designs before - neither is wrong, just personal preferences.
Quote from: Jeri on May 25, 2021, 07:46:26 AM
11+ tip seems a little over the top for a 10' long rod, we build a light surf spin rod, that is 12' long and find it is optimum with 8 + tip - casting 2-3oz lures. But then our blank is much more 'J' curve that what appears to be a 'very' C curve blank. Added to the fact that perhaps our J curve blank will suffer the first guide being near 58" up the rod from the reel seat.
Of the guides chosen, I think you missed the opportunity to try a more KR Concept design, rather than the conventional route that you have gone, a KR design might have yielded better performance both in power and distance. Our 12', starts with a KL20H, which is more than adequate for 25lb braid and 50lb braid leader, and yields very good distances.
I have noticed this preference for the US market preferring more 'C' curve blanks, than 'J' curve designs before - neither is wrong, just personal preferences.
I didn't think I'd get the line to track the way it does with fewer guides, but you're right that may be a reflection of the curve of the rod.
I don't mean to be the guy who assumes everything is a conspiracy, but I'm convinced part of it is a decent C curve rod is cheaper and easier to make than a decent J curve rod. And the norm seems to be to convince consumers that the thing they wanna sell is the thing you wanna buy. Of course I say that immediately after having just purchased one myself. But I knew what I was doing.
Also I have a set of KLH guides starting with a 25H that I planned to use with this. But even with my first guide not as far up the blank as you put it, with the nature of the C curve of the rod under load the angle between the reel, the blank, and the guide seemed pretty extreme, like a lot of eventual-bend-causing load was being placed on the guide foot, so I changed course to a setup that allowed for a double footed bottom guide. I suspect with a J curve that load on the bottom guide isn't there because that part of the blank is still straight. Also I like those L series runners. Their foot is much larger, and the scoring makes it harder to pull out (I did a few tests).
I'm still kinda making this up as I go. This is all a learning experience.
Given the very soft ('C' curve) nature of the blank, I would have thought a more defined KR concept use of guides would have yielded better results, perhaps starting off with a KLAG16H, given the lighter grade of lines to be used on the rod. These would have complimented the design of the blank more, than hindering the flow of the blank with heavy and twin foot guides.
On lighter lined rods/blanks, I've always found going lighter to be the more productive route than trying to achieve some sort of 'stiffening' with guides, especially twin foot guides.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on May 17, 2021, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: steelfish on May 17, 2021, 05:53:25 PM
and.... where are the pictures of your rod?
how many guides did you used and which model of guides?
pics or never happened!! ;D ;D
Was delaying pics til I finish decoration. But it has 11 guides total. all Fuji alconites with the polished finish.
Still waiting for the pics
show us your rod amigo, we're not here to critique but to admire what other members create, personally Im interested in see the grips, reel seat and guides you used on this rod, I was interested on getting this same blank but recalled I have a similar 10ft rod already, it might not be as good as BH but for my needs it works perfect, so I dropped the idea (for now)
I've been delaying because I wanted to try to fix the seam on the picture before I show it off again.
I'll try to get something posted this weekend.
Y'all also got me second guessing myself over # of guides for it, but I don't think I'm gonna redo it for that.
compadre Jason, so, got any pics of the grips, reelseat and guides of this rod?
I didnt recalled that you built a rod with those blanks, how its the performance on the rod on your beaches?
I'll take some pics tomorrow, but a part of me almost doesn't want to. This was one of my early builds and frankly I wanna strip it down and start over. Guide placement is good, my wraps look like absolute crap. This is by far the fanciest blank I've built on and I'm almost embarrassed to use it.
But re: the blank itself it's fun to fish with but I wish I'd gotten the stiffer 9'6" version. That 2oz lure rating is a hard limit. Above that casting distance really starts dropping. But its really sensitive and crazy light weight.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 02, 2023, 02:37:48 AMI'll take some pics tomorrow, but a part of me almost doesn't want to. This was one of my early builds and frankly I wanna strip it down and start over. Guide placement is good, my wraps look like absolute crap. This is by far the fanciest blank I've built on and I'm almost embarrassed to use it.
But re: the blank itself it's fun to fish with but I wish I'd gotten the stiffer 9'6" version. That 2oz lure rating is a hard limit. Above that casting distance really starts dropping. But its really sensitive and crazy light weight.
I understand what you saying about "how we look our early builds" I see that on my early builds too LOL so, no problem if you feel like better not showing it, my only reason was to check how you built it since I always feel attracted to this blank but never went for it cuz there is not much action on my beaches and I already have some long and light rods for the fun of it and some proper surf rods that I dont use that much.
This one just got re-finished. A part of me feels like this is what tattoo artists who do cover up work go through. I pulled the poorly glued on space picture, stripped all the guides, and wrapped on new ones. And dang it I think I did a better job of it.
I did a terrible job on the transition between rear grip and reel seat the first time round. But nah, that's just a happy little trim band now.
I used a fuji KLH20 just under the split between top and bottom sections, then did a 12H an 8H and a 7L then 4 KT6. Still have the titanium tip that I got on crazy discount. But I moved it an inch down, it was loose before.
Gonna try to test it this weekend at my company Christmas party at the beach. A few of us are bringing rods. I just plan to cast farther.
I would like to see more pictures of your rod build wrapper tools. I see what looks lie a hand made wooden roller contraption...
I have built 2 BH rods that I use exclusivly for Yellowtail
- Black Hole USA Striped Bass Special Surf Blanks 10'' 1-6oz
and
- Black Hole USA Striped Bass Special Surf Blanks 10'' 2-8oz
When I built the 1st one I was sure it was to light for Yellowtail from shore, so I built it to cast with the strong side.
The first time I fished it I caught 7 Yellowtail, one of about 14 lb the rest a bit smaller and lifted all from the water. I could comfortably cast 60 to 85 gram (2 - 3 oz) lures, the weight of the lured had a marginal effect on cast distance. I absolutely loved this rod It was very light, easy to cast and it pulled Yellowtail very well for its rating.
The next day it got stolen and I could not obtain another similar blank so bought the heavier model. The heavier one is a better all round Yellowtail rod but I still want another light one.
I never understood how they can build a rod with such a wide casting weight range as 1 - 6 oz, 6 oz is to me a very heavy weight. Both the rods listed are very happy with a just over 2 oz casting weight.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 06, 2023, 05:42:15 AMI used a fuji KLH20 just under the split between top and bottom sections, then did a 12H an 8H and a 7L then 4 KT6. Still have the titanium tip that I got on crazy discount. But I moved it an inch down, it was loose before.
so, you went from 11 +tip guides to 8 +tip configuration?
seems like a more natural guide train setup for a 10ft surf rod, how do you like it this way compared to the way it was before?
Quote from: steelfish on December 06, 2023, 08:03:47 PMso, you went from 11 +tip guides to 8 +tip configuration?
seems like a more natural guide train setup for a 10ft surf rod, how do you like it this way compared to the way it was before?
Correct. I think I laid the last one out like a 7' inshore and wondered why it didn't cast like a surf rod. This time i laid it out like a surf rod.
Ill tell you in a few days how it does. I haven't done any test casting yet I do all my guide placement testing (on spinners) by rapidly stripping line off using a drill and a big spool. I was shocked by how well it flowed. I hope that translates to good casts. I'll find out soon enough.