George, after seeing yours, I had to have one of my own, thanks for the inspiration ;).
Here is my Grouper Special:
(https://i.imgur.com/l4otEzJ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/n5k75j2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZjoZlaL.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/BXQuZIN.png)
Enjoy!
Sal
Nice! Mine doesn't look as good and I need to bore out the side plate to take the 66 bridge. Does it have a octagon insert?
Nice looking reel Sal! A beauty as usual :)
Sal it's a beauty. Do they have grouper in New Jersey? Come down to Mexico in June and put it to good use. Dominick
Quote from: Keta on March 01, 2014, 04:32:51 PM
Nice! Mine doesn't look as good and I need to bore out the side plate to take the 66 bridge. Does it have a octagon insert?
Lee, this one has Bryan's 7+1 kit, yours is ready to go, I went the easy way, because this reel wasn't easy to do. BTW, why would you go with the 66? You could still use the Jigmaster stainless sleeve as I did with this one.
The plate doesn't need to be modified , it will work with both 66 & 113, unless you're trying to center the sleeve to the plate opening.
(https://i.imgur.com/lxovf7C.png)
Quote from: Dominick on March 01, 2014, 06:05:24 PM
Sal it's a beauty. Do they have grouper in New Jersey? Come down to Mexico in June and put it to good use. Dominick
Dominick, you'll be surprised on what we catch here, you're forgetting about the jet stream.
On my last Tuna trip we caught Mahi Mahi on the way back, but they're usually under 10 lbs.
I want to go from 2:1 to 2.5:1 for mine.
I have done a few of the bridge swaps and have only had to cut one plate. I think the faster speed is about perfect.
Ron
As usual you have produced another sweet reel. Nice workmanship Sal. Another winner.
Thanks guys, I can't believe no one mentioned the 113H narrow kit yet ::), that spool is from the T4N kit, a narrow aluminum spool for the 113 doesn't exist, well it does now ;D
Lee, how were you going to get from the 2.1:1 to the 2.5:1 on this reel, could you let me know which gears you were going to use?
No modification to the spool? T4N kit + jigmaster sleeve + 4/0= grouper special. :o
Looks good Sal! ;)
I'm sure Sal used his new lathe to modify the spool. I did a couple for John a while back. It's not hard to do. At least for Sal. ;D
Bob
Oh I forgot to tell you, the reel looks great Sal. It looks like your getting pretty good with the lathe. I can't wait to see what you come up with. Bob
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 02, 2014, 12:08:17 AM
Thanks guys, I can't believe no one mentioned the 113H narrow kit yet ::), that spool is from the T4N kit, a narrow aluminum spool for the 113 doesn't exist, well it does now ;D
Lee, how were you going to get from the 2.1:1 to the 2.5:1 on this reel, could you let me know which gears you were going to use?
5-66 main 13-49 pinion. My narrow spool is a 66 spool.
Did you change the bearings or modify the spool shaft to get the narrow 113H spool to work?
Nice reel Sal...
John
Quote from: Keta on March 02, 2014, 12:41:53 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 02, 2014, 12:08:17 AM
Thanks guys, I can't believe no one mentioned the 113H narrow kit yet ::), that spool is from the T4N kit, a narrow aluminum spool for the 113 doesn't exist, well it does now ;D
Lee, how were you going to get from the 2.1:1 to the 2.6:1 on this reel, could you let me know which gears you were going to use?
5-66 main 13-49 pinion. My narrow spool is a 66 spool.
I don't believe that will do it lee, you will be 1/16 too short.
Here is how I got to 2.6:1:
(https://i.imgur.com/VEaRy7q.png)
I used a 5-149 main and a 13-113H pinion, the gears are meshing nicely.
u will need to grind the opening about 1/16" to be able to fit the main gear
(https://i.imgur.com/XyGthob.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/XIXCIWz.png)
stock 2.1:1 ratio on the right, 2.6:1 on the left. gears have been tested under stress and did good.
Quote from: Keta on March 02, 2014, 12:41:53 AM
Did you change the bearings or modify the spool shaft to get the narrow 113H spool to work?
I modified the spool shaft
(https://i.imgur.com/corxpUY.png)
The shaft on the right was as the one on the left. I also needed to do the ratchet side
(https://i.imgur.com/8XQvJpg.png)
I tried with all the cutters that I had available in different combination and nothing worked, that stainless steel is tough
(https://i.imgur.com/nF0yobq.png)
I was able to get it done by using the dremel with the lathe, both spinning at the same time
(https://i.imgur.com/ia016tw.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/vbmzpLg.png)
here is the finished side
(https://i.imgur.com/12UzC9P.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/V99UgeZ.png)
and the ratchet side
(https://i.imgur.com/krW5Wca.png)
if you look closer you will see the aluminum extension block that I had to install on the lathe, so it would clear the spool, that was over $100, but it came with a nice cutting tool holder.
I thought this lathe was good enough for me, but looks like I need to get rid of it. It's great on brass, but worthless on stainless steel. I realize that I'm new at this, but if I could make some neat parts with brass, I should be able to do the same with stainless steel. this lathe is just too small.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 02, 2014, 01:21:37 AM
I don't believe that will do it lee, you will be 1/16 too short.
I had to use different bearings, I'll look and see what I did tomorrow.
NICE! The ULTIMATE Grouper Special. Thanks for sharing, Sal.
Simply amazing Sal. Your learning curve is steep. I am in awe.
Good work Sal! The Dremel is a miracle. What would we do without them? ;)
I just tested the reel and was disappointed to find that the spool locked up on me at 30lbs, I probably went out of square when milling, or maybe the shaft got weak from grinding it down :-\.
Looks like I wasted a $70 spool :'( oh well...
I took it apart just to make sure it wasn't the gears and reassembled as a standard size
(https://i.imgur.com/r6Xti9U.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/DKxBOc3.png)
Took 32lbs to lift (6) bricks in a bucket
(https://i.imgur.com/XJ293AD.png)
This reel has the 5-149 main gear and the 13-113H pinion, the ratio is 2.5:1.
I like the gears upgrade much better than the stock 2.1:1.
The drag stack is the 1+5 kit from Bryan.
Bryan, I'm impressed, I also did a rolling test and the reel is nice and smooth. If any of you ladies and gentlemen want to make this reel a little faster, go for it, the swapped gears are working flawlessly.
This is a great reel and it will have its place.
The aluminum narrow spool is not available for this reel, so if anyone is interested, Gregg (Chowderpuff) will try to make a special run for us as a Narrow Kit. The cost would be as the 113h Narrow (T4N).
We will need at least 50 orders to get it going, please post here if interested and maybe we'll get it done.
Thanks! Sal....I'm definitely in for one ;D
Hello Sal,
As always, nice work. Too bad the spool did not work out for you. I don't know how you came up with the 149 main and 113H pinion combination but I am glad you did. I just checked and I have a 149 main gear so I am going to convert one of my grouper specials to the 2.5:1 gear ratio. Since I had all of the parts I got carried away with this reel and made 4 of them using the Penn 66 spool with Tiburon topless narrow frames. The Penn 66 stainless steel spool works well. I don't have any of Brian's 5 stack kits so I will use the 3 stack. Too bad the 149 main is not as tall as the 66 main. I think this will be a great gear ratio for this reel. I will need to find some more 149 mains.
Thanks again Sal for your work and sharing it with all of us.
John
Hey John, the 5-149 & 13-113H are a perfect match, the only problem, you will need to grind about a 1/16" for the main gear to fit, but only at the bottom part, which it makes it very easy to do.
The side wall on the 5-149 is .65mm thicker than the 5-66, the opening is a little larger, but Bryan's ears fit to perfection, maybe that's what we need to make the drags smoother, a little extra room.
On the pull I got 40lbs, lifting 32lbs, my back started to hurt so I gave up.
Lee's insert will bring you to the same height, but if you use Bryans kit, you will need a jigmaster's spacer.
It is also a good idea to replace the gear sleeve with the jigmaster's sleeve, that one has a better ratchet, just make sure you get the stainless from Alan.
When you're done, you will be surprised on how smooth the reel feels.
Let me know if you need anything, I have the steel gears that I believe are Moly coated. These are very strong gears, Let me know and I'll put it in the mail
That Sucks about the spool Sal. :-\ Isn't there a frame out there so you could just use a stock 4/0 chrome spool? Or am I just missing the point of being Narrow Minded. ;)
Yes, I'm showing one above your comment ;).
I knew that there was a good chance I would damage the spool, I'm ok with that, besides, I'm not done with that spool just yet.
I really like this reel, George had a good idea when he did his and I always wanted to make one for myself.
Scotts has the stainless steel spool that would go with that narrow frame, but I really like the look of the aluminum spool, you need to see this reel live, pictures don't do it justice.
I will be making myself the narrow, standard and wide, I need to have all three ;D, I already have three sets of new plate and gears. This started with a new set of 113 plates for $6, but I know I will be paying for it. Remember, its not about the money ;D
I mean a Tib frame you can just slap on a stock 4/0 Black without any other mods.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on March 02, 2014, 10:54:52 PM
I mean a Tib frame you can just slap on a stock 4/0 Black without any other mods.
Yes, as mentioned earlier there are options for the narrow, standard and wide. Tiburon has the frames for all three options.
Scotts has the spools, but the narrow aluminum is not available from Tiburon or Scotts.
The Longbeach 66-67 and 68 will give you the narrow-standard and wide.
Sal, when you said that the spool locked up, can you explain? Are you saying that the spool contacted the sideplate or frame?
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 03, 2014, 03:31:42 AM
Sal, when you said that the spool locked up, can you explain? Are you saying that the spool contacted the sideplate or frame?
Yes, but not the side, the outer edge. Here is a shot of the spool. you could see the rub mark.
(https://i.imgur.com/HKsmFjJ.png)
It is related to my grinding of the spool shaft, the right side is bent a little. Not much, but it doesn't take much.
Sal,
What we did with the reels a couple years ago is switch to the 66 bridge in order to use the 66 gear set of 2.5:1 ratio. This sometimes mean you have to dremel out the sideplate a little to make it fit. I have to say that your system is really nice.
Ron
Hi Sal, try putting the spool back on the lathe and the other end next to your tail stock with a needle and have it contact the spool shaft. Then rotate the lateh by hand and compare the position of the needed with the center of the spool shaft. Do you notice if that shaft deviates from the needles? If no, then try to repeat with the sides of the spool shaft. This is to just check if the cut is concentric all around the shaft. If it is, then it's probably flexing the shaft. There is nothing you can do about that unless you are able to temper the shaft, and the shaft is made out of a SS that is temperable (is this a word).
Your creation is not all shot...30# before it hits the sideplate? How many people can hold 30# of drag from the end of a rod? It it works perfect at 18-25#, that is way plenty for that reel. It may not be a Grouper Special, but it is a special reel for some type of catch.
Just file the marked high spot off and brush Alocrom the cut aluminium to protect against corrosion.
It helps if you have a friend in the Aerospace business who can help out here as this stuff is expensive.
http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=A00FWS9N9
Thanks guys for trying to help, I appreciate it. This spool is pretty much gone, I already got over it.
Bryan. I did your test yesterday and it is off, the problem now is that it can't be fixed. I bet if I started with my dremel set up it would have came out close to perfect. About the 32 lbs, that was by lifting the bucket, I could have pushed it to 40lbs, but didn't want to make Dwight look bad ;D. I pushed it hard to make sure that the new gear combination would work, and it did. ;)
You're right, this reel would make a nice 25lb reel.
Quote from: noyb72 on March 03, 2014, 07:40:00 PM
Sal,
What we did with the reels a couple years ago is switch to the 66 bridge in order to use the 66 gear set of 2.5:1 ratio. This sometimes mean you have to dremel out the sideplate a little to make it fit. I have to say that your system is really nice.
Ron
Ron, you always impress me, you must have lots of tricks up your sleeve ;).
I'm liking this reel, it's a shame no one is interested on the narrow aluminum spool.
Tiburon, could have made a special run just for us here :-\. oh well.
Sal
Irish Jigger,
Do you have any pics of bare Alum parts that have been treated with this Alocrom stuff. I'm kinda curious what the surface ends up looking like, and wonder if paint and or alum filler would stick to treated parts too. You're right about it being pricy though :(
Being someone who does not care for bearings, I would be interested in that spool. Don't know if we would get enough interest to get Tib to do it.
Ron
Yep, I'm also thinking it won't happen. I don't get it why Penn offers the standard and wide in aluminum, but not the narrow :-\
A complete Tiburon Kit would have looked sweet though, black plates look gorgeous with the black tib kit .
Quote from: Tightlines666 on March 03, 2014, 10:46:55 PM
Irish Jigger,
Do you have any pics of bare Alum parts that have been treated with this Alocrom stuff. I'm kinda curious what the surface ends up looking like, and wonder if paint and or alum filler would stick to treated parts too. You're right about it being pricy though :(
Tightlines666. Sorry no pics. Google "alocrom" and click on "Images" to view the colour.
I have used this process to protect and repair aluminium aircraft parts that had been anodised and subsequently part machined.
The finish colour was an iridescent golden or pale yellow which readily accepted paint or aluminium fillers.
I have used it when repairing a Shimano Trinidad TN16 spool which was partially corroded and found that the colour matched the spool as well as providing protection against further corrosion.
Take care when using Alocrom as it carries health and safety warnings.
Quote from: noyb72 on March 04, 2014, 12:13:42 AM
Being someone who does not care for bearings, I would be interested in that spool. Don't know if we would get enough interest to get Tib to do it.
Ron
It sounds like it has a bent shaft from side loading when Sal was trying to cut it.
Quote from: Keta on March 04, 2014, 01:05:24 AM
It sounds like it has a bent shaft from side loading when Sal was trying to cut it.
Yep!
Sal, it's too bad about the spool. It sure did look good, though. At a quick glance it could be mistaken for a Baja Special. 30 lbs drag; good grief! You are a braver man than me, as I plan on limiting mine to 15lbs with #40- or #50 mono.
George
Hey George, I pushed it as far just to see if the gears would handle it. This is a new combination with the gears, well to me anyway, you probably already did this ;D.
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 04, 2014, 03:26:54 AM
Hey George, I pushed it as far just to see if the gears would handle it. This is a new combination with the gears, well to me anyway, you probably already did this ;D.
Sal, I thought that was your reason for pushing it. BTW the grouper special is my favorite reel, at least for now, anyway.
Sal,
What was Bryan's 5 stack you used in the 149 main gear?? I assume it was a 5 stack for a 113, but please confirm. I need to re-read what kits Bryan has available.
Thanks,
John
Hi John,
I have done the 113 drag set yet but the 5-60 gear. Fits nice and will offer with Belleville washer as well. The stack sits a little lower in the gear and allows space for the Belleville and you can then get rid of the spring wave washer.
I need to order more carbon text washers soon.
Bryan, how many washers can you got in the 66 gear? I'm thinking this thing would be great for a 3/4 day trip to Mexico for bottom fishing.
Ronald
Depends on thickness. With Bryan's kit and .50mm carbon fiber washers, you will get 7+1.
Quote from: john2244 on March 06, 2014, 02:40:45 AM
Sal,
What was Bryan's 5 stack you used in the 149 main gear?? I assume it was a 5 stack for a 113, but please confirm. I need to re-read what kits Bryan has available.
Thanks,
John
Hey John, I used Bryan's .50mm metal washers and made .50mm carbon fiber washers from a .50mm sheet from Dawn.
Bryan might have those as a complete kit, but I'm not sure.
You could also use Lee's insert, you could get 7 to 12 working surfaces with those, thickness would determine how many.
Sal do you work for the USPS? you always deliver... :D ;D
Sal,
I installed the 149 main and 113H pinion in one of my "grouper specials" today. As you stated, the gears mesh very well. I purchased four 149 main gears and need to buy some 113H pinions and I will then change the other reels too. This is a very different set of gears but they work well.
Thanks again,
John
Very nice John, I didn't know you had that many ;D. Were you able to find steel 149 gears?
What washer does the 149 gear use?
Ronald
6-60, but if you use Lee's insert it won't work, it needs to be a little wider. I'm sending Lee the 149 gears so he could test them. Bryan's 6-60 kit feels very smooth in the 5-149, maybe because of the little extra room. :-\
The reel is back together, got me a stainless steel spool for $8...not bad.
(https://i.imgur.com/4JCoIHC.png)
8 Dollars! Good Job buddy. Take it easy on her. ;)
Grouper season opens here in May or June so come on down and give it a test run.
I wish I could Dwight, you might get to test this one before I do :-\.
I changed directions thanks to Sal and finished building my Grouper special today. It has a 149 main gear (thanks Sal), a 113H pinion gear, 66 spool (thanks Alan), 5+1 drag (.025 titanium metal washers and .020 CF washers from a ABU 7000 with the ID opened up), 1 thick and 1 thin Bellville washer (thanks Bryan), an Accurate frame (thanks John), one of my reject kranks and one of Alan's handles. Tomorrow I'll test the drag, the line is 50' of 130# Dacron so I don't go flying.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/DSCN1416_zps49b8b78b.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/DSCN1416_zps49b8b78b.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/DSCN1415_zpsac3d7b0e.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/DSCN1415_zpsac3d7b0e.jpg.html)
Looking good Lee, you will find that the new gears combination is actually smoother than the original.
I put in a marginal 113H pinion to see how they worked but a new one is on the way. Even with the used gear it runs smooth.
Awesome Lee! ;)
I get 23# of drag with the set up I have now but it ramps up too quickly.
Check your spacer and spring washer. Mine didn't do that, did you use 1+5?
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 16, 2014, 08:19:31 PM
Check your spacer and spring washer. Mine didn't do that, did you use 1+5?
Yes, it's 5+1. I think I need to remove the heavy Bellville and put in a spacer washer.
That will do it. I'm also not having luck with those, I now use the original tension spring.
Quote from: Keta on March 16, 2014, 08:13:28 PM
I get 23# of drag with the set up I have now but it ramps up too quickly.
I haven't built a grouper special but I've had that problem with other reels. Usually it is fixable by replacing the coarse thread gear sleeve and star with a fine thread equivalents (98-60 -> 98-505 and 10-60 -> 10-505).
A narrow grouper special with a narrow kit from Tiburon might still happen. As some of you know I messed up a brand new Tiburon 113H spool trying to make it work on the 113. Since I had nothing to lose, I attempted to pull the spool shaft and yes it can be done.
(https://i.imgur.com/0tD8K6E.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/0Nxkna9.png)
Now all I need is a beat up 66 spool.
Sal
So how did you do it Sal? Can you show some pics of the shaft?
Sure Tom, here you go:
(https://i.imgur.com/Z9rEcwr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Yg6It6a.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/oO8VXNP.png)
I thought they used epoxy, but it cleaned off pretty easy, it is some type of glue though
(https://i.imgur.com/XIIkEXB.png)
Taking measurements the shaft is the same diameter, but when I press it back into the spool it stops 1/2" from setting itself all the way in. This tells me that the shaft gets a little larger by the ratchet.
How I got it out was by heating up the spool using Map gas for about 15 seconds, I then grabbed the spool with a couple of rags and hit the end of the shaft with a hammer, once the spool came out about 1/2" I was able to pull It right out by hands, All it took was one tap with the hammer.
Nice!
I've been wondering how the spools and shafts were machined and assembled.
Good to know for future reference ;).
If you get a chance, may I get them in my paws for a little inspection?
I'm not in any hurry.
Tom
Will do! I believe I have your address ;D
Shafts will be relatively easy to make.
Resurrecting this since you posted it to the other thread. Did you ever get a shaft swap for the spool? Also, have you caught any fish with this beauty.
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on December 14, 2014, 01:09:10 PM
Resurrecting this since you posted it to the other thread. Did you ever get a shaft swap for the spool? Also, have you caught any fish with this beauty.
NO and No! ;D.
As mentioned above, the spool and shaft went to Tom ( Cortez_Conversion) .
I didn't hear anything from him and wasn't expecting to,Tom just wanted to take a look. But with that said, you never know what he has up his sleeve. ;D That man has some serious talent ;).
The problem with machinists as Tom is that when you're that good, there is very little to no time for small on the side projects, their time is too valuable.
Nothing was lost from my messing up the spool, when all done, I still came up with a nice Grouper Special and Tom got to dissect the parts...that's a good thing ;)
Sal
To bad would have loved to see a that black beauty all put together! I'm working on a grouper special now but not with the 4/0. This thread helped A LOT!
Also, how have you not taken it fishing. Thing about a reel head all the time spent working on the reels not enough time fishing ;D :P
Great stuff as always Sal
With the shaft removed from the spool I imagine it's easier to machine. Sal, thanks for sharing and never giving up.
No George, thank you....you started this. ;D
You go ahead and keep a low profile, we know what you've done here. The Grouper Special was your idea and you've also helped with squeezing additional washers in the stack.
Things happens because of guys like you, keep it up my friend. ;)
Sal
Sal, or anyone,
When reinstalling the spool shaft, how would you secure it so it wouldn't slip?
Tough one George. When I measured the spool shaft above, it appeared to be the same all the way across and yet when I placed it in the spool, it would hung up about 3/4". I'm thinking those are press fit with a lot of force. A stainless steel pin going through the spool and shaft, might do the trick, but I'll let Lee or some other guys smarter than me answer that one.
A cross pin is stronger but a press fit would most likely work.
Sal, have you done anymore experimenting with the aluminum spool or spool shaft?
George
George, the spool and shaft was sent to Tom ( Cortez_Conversions ) a while back...a good place to be ;)
I second that Sal. ;) I am patiently awaiting his run of ss sleeves for the 12 and 14/0. I know they will be perfect. The Man is a Genius.
Thanks to Sal, George and everyone else for the ideas. I have slowly been picking up the parts needed for a grouper special with a 149 main and 113H pinion. It started when I picked up a left side plate and rings for $5 & finished when I got a Newell YTS stand, spacer bars and post from Randy (Vintage Offshore Fishing).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GpVxI5WCKIw/Vi3C_gY3bVI/AAAAAAAAAj8/TaYZoLkslng/s800-Ic42/DSCF2527.JPG)
The only problem I had was with the spring for the second dog - it ended up being completely outside the bridge and didn't have anything to stop it falling out. Did you have this problem with yours Sal? I decided to drill a hole in the bridge and tap it for a 5-40 screw and used a 63-209 clicker spring screw to hold a piece of copper sheet shaped to make a 'spring guard'. There is enough room between the SS 66 spool and the bridge for the screw and copper piece - plan B would have been to use a countersunk screw but it wasn't needed.
The spring;
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y8wTZXdw9Bg/Vi3GTyzM_RI/AAAAAAAAAkI/tSd4tQOEjYA/s800-Ic42/DSCF2525.JPG)
And with the spring guard;
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-W-MZ9mMirRA/Vi3HJckx_3I/AAAAAAAAAkQ/etdN3aQ9iU4/s800-Ic42/DSCF2526.JPG)
Excellent job on that reel, I also like the way you covered that spring.
I don't remember what I did on mine, I will need to pull the plate when I get a chance and take a look.
I will let you know.
Good job!
Thanks Sal, Your original post was over 18 months ago and you would have worked on more than a few reels since then!! - I'm not surprised you don't recall the blow by blow details.
I just opened her up again:
(https://i.imgur.com/4N25KxK.png)
the spring is still set in place, but haven't taken the reel out.
I believe I used a larger spring, but your way is a much better choice, as long as you have enough clearance with the spool.
Sal
Sal, how about a pic of the silver reel behind? Is that the SS Jigmaster?
You've seen it before, but sure, here you go:
(https://i.imgur.com/8XlfgEc.png)
Good job on that spring cover mhc. That baby isn't going anywhere. ;)
Sal, where did you get that ball to fit on Adam's handle? Is it an old accurate or something else? I want a bunch of Adam's handles but I'm having a hard time finding a good ball grip that will fit properly.
Any info is appreciated!
Thanks
Dom
PS- MHC nice/ inventive job on the spring guard.
Very nice job Mike, that should crank a few reef dwellers out of their lairs.
Good on you for sharing.
Quote from: broadway on October 27, 2015, 11:55:33 PM
Sal, where did you get that ball to fit on Adam's handle? Is it an old accurate or something else? I want a bunch of Adam's handles but I'm having a hard time finding a good ball grip that will fit properly.
Any info is appreciated!
Thanks
Dom
PS- MHC nice/ inventive job on the spring guard.
Hey Dom, that knob came from Alan C., I asked him if he could find me some round knobs and that's what he came up with. It looks and feels good, but I'm not sure if he would be selling those.
I hear you on the mounting, some of the Eva knobs...as the one on the left of my pic, have the shaft that needs to sit in the arm, the silver knob is flush mount. It comes with a nice mounting screw, so I'm not worried about it.
I made me a note to ask Adam if he could make some of those handles a little wider by the mounting hole.
Sal
Just cleaned up my new to me 4/0, ordered the 5-149 gear, 13-113h pinion, and an AT SS sleeve...now all I need to do is get a handle and figure out where to buy or peice together this 5+1 drag stack. I love that every reel I pick up, there's a perfect thread on one already lol
I'm going broke on old penn reels, etc, since I found this site.
Mark
1 is none, sets are nice, but triple redundency like the space shuttle is my thing.
Packing for a Bahamas fishing trip.
Wow Sal, that Steel jigmaster is beyond cool. 8) 8)
Ted
Thanks Ted!
It is also the only one that exists...unless someone else could show me one :).
In computer software it would be a Beta tester, Sal is the Reel/part Tester. Those old Penns he redid for me are so smooth now, amazing with the array of upgrades here installed by a master reel tuner.Wow. Is he a good fisherman, as well as a man of many skills displayed on here. People like Sal, Alan, Ted, Dominick, Darren etal are what makes this site so unique.
So many from all over, talented and skillful people that also fish, and as a result, best site. with a good sized community diverse More than civil, more like family.
Thanks for this place Alan
Quote from: anglingarchitect on April 05, 2016, 02:06:27 AM
In computer software it would be a Beta tester, Sal is the Reel/part Tester. Those old Penns he redid for me are so smooth now, amazing with the array of upgrades here installed by a master reel tuner.Wow. Is he a good fisherman, as well as a man of many skills displayed on here. People like Sal, Alan, Ted, Dominick, Darren etal are what makes this site so unique.
So many from all over, talented and skillful people that also fish, and as a result, best site. with a good sized community diverse More than civil, more like family.
Thanks for this place Alan
X2STEVE
I debated whether to post this on George's original Grouper Special thread or to put it here on Sal's...but since it's wearing Ted's narrow Tank Top, I figured it needed a full Tank treatment and belongs here on Sal's thread. The steel gears are Sal's 149 main and 113h pinion combo and Sal is absolutely correct in that they mesh very nicely. These smaller gears limit the drag surfaces so I installed Bryan's 5+1 along with a PRO Challenger 10-tooth gear sleeve and it just wouldn't be a Tank without double dogs. This is where I strayed off the beaten path just a little bit and chose to use Lee's 15-500 dogs. I figured if they are strong enough for a Jigmaster, they should be strong enough for the smaller drag set as well. I also wanted the dogs and springs to be completely captive below the bridge plate. Here's the photos of what I did:
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_8_03_25_30370681.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30371)
The 15-500 dogs on the left have been modified. The dog on the right is stock for comparison.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_8_03_27_303701155.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30372)
Here's the plate. I wanted to keep the dremel work to a bare minimum. I scored some guide lines into the plate with the tip of an xacto knife. You can see these lines in some of the photos.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_7_59_54_30325291.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30326)
Here's a close up of the relief cut for the original dog location. I also made a small pocket to help keep the spring in place during assembly.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_7_59_40_30324155.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30325)
Here's the dog and spring installed.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_7_59_17_303231098.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30324)
...and with the bridge in place.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_8_03_01_30351214.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30353)
Here's the relief for the second dog. It also gets a pocket for the spring.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_8_03_27_30373338.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30374)
Here's the second dog and spring installed.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_8_00_41_30334217.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30335)
...and with the bridge installed.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_8_03_24_30368346.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30369)
Both dogs shown with a stock 8-tooth gear sleeve for reference. They synchronize perfectly with the 10-tooth gear sleeve.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_8_01_50_303352062.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30337)
With the bridge in place you can see just enough of the AR works peeking out to confirm function.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_8_03_21_303662364.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30367)
On the exterior I used Lee's lug blanks and Ted's Tank Top frame.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_14769_11_11_19_8_03_19_30365351.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30366)
Thank you Ohana for sharing your imagination, talents, knowledge, skills and superb aftermarket parts.
-Mike
Wow Mike, your adaptation of the 2nd dog is vastly superior to anything I've seen. Thanks for sharing with all the details. You made it look easy, but I know better.
Beautiful tank Mike
-Ted
Ted, We all got real spoiled with the double-dog bridges but I decided I wanted to do this one in the classic Sal style...seems to go nice with your frame too. I'll say one thing though...it's a real #### to keep the dogs and springs in place while setting the bridge but if I hold my tongue just right and cross my eyes, it's a snap. I forgot to take a photo of the dogs and springs without the bridge covering them and I swore I wouldn't take it apart so soon but I did anyway. I figured you guys deserve a full set of photos and it was easier the second time around. I need to get some extra dog springs to have on hand next time I open it.
-Mike
Quote from: PacRat on February 09, 2017, 07:18:07 AM
I'll say one thing though...it's a real #### to keep the dogs and springs in place while setting the bridge but if I hold my tongue just right and cross my eyes, it's a snap.
Yes, I broke a sweat assembling my Flathead Special which was double dogged this way, it's not for the timid. Awesome job on this reel Mike...it looks great! 8)
Good looking grouper special Mike, nice work. That was a great idea to use the 500 dogs - they look like they were made for the reel. I like the way you kept the dremel work on the plate to a minimum as well, the enlarged opening for the 5-149 main is very tidy.
Mike
Excellent work on the dogs Mike, you really know how to get it done with minimal material removed.
Your way is a much better option, thanks for showing it to us.
Yes, assembly could be a pain, I always make sure I use an O-ring on top of my gear sleeve. The last thing you want is for that eared washer to get out of position when you're finally able to set the bridge in.
I also set all four bridge screws in and hold them in place with a piece of tape, this really helps.
Good job!
Sal
Nice! I should have sent you 15-500S dogs though, they would have saved you a little work.
I never noticed there was a difference in the dogs. Now I have to go look. ;D
The 15-500S has a spring notch.
I picked up an old black plate 4/0 and decided I want to make one of these grouper specials. I think it might make a good catfishing reel in a situation where speed isn't critical. There's a ton of great info on this thread...great work fellas! 8)
I can't believe I made the last post on this thread almost 2 1/2 years ago...and just got around to doing this project! If Nelz hadn't mentioned wanting a faster 113 a few days ago I'd probably never remembered. This 113 is one that belonged to a friend who has passed on. It's not in the best of shape cosmetically, but functions very well. With that in mind, I decided to skip all the stainless and expensive parts...just make a slightly faster/stronger version of John's ol' 4/0. I suppose if I did trash the brass gear sleeve, I have a stash of extras to replace it.
I ordered a new 149 main and 113H pinion from Mystic, then cobbled together a 5-stack from a few of Bryan's washers, 2 Mitch 302 washers, and a few stock Penn washers. The first photo is the new parts above the replaced ones. I couldn't resist double dogging it while I had it torn down. If I were going for large drag numbers I'd make it simultaneous dogs, but for the range I'll be in alternating sounds cooler. The second pic shows how I used two flat springs on the new dog to get a good "slap". I noticed some folks had concerns about the second dog's spring being outside the bridge. My set up has everything contained under the bridge.
I tested the retrieve after modding the reel, and it increased from 16 inches per turn to 20. The drag is much smoother now also. The third photo shows how an owner previous to John had inscribed "M S" on the reel. Funny I should end up with a reel that wears my initials...but I didn't scratch them on! 8)
Nice work Moe. Dominick
Good work ! I may have to *have* one of those ::).
great work Mo, you are a wizzard amigo.
making it 20" per turn reel doesnt put it too far from a stock 113h which is 26" (if I recall correctly) and thats pretty decent recovery Vs torque, I uninstalled a 4:1 steelgears on my 113h t4n1 special and installed some old steel 3:1 gears
my Mak15 in low speed recover 15" per turn !! pretty low for nomal fishing but really useful with 30+ angry groupers and yellowtails looking for structures here in Baja.
Tidy work Mo
Mike
Excellent job on that Grouper Special Mo! 👍
Sal
Awesome Mo, Great photo's and description.
Particularly interested in this "double dogging" caper, have one to attempt soon, so that's a great photo of yours.
Cheers,
Col
Thanks everyone! Take your time with it Col...I've found the best approach when double-dogging is to analyze everything before diving in. Use simple things to help hold parts in place, like the tape I put on the flat springs, or a dab of grease on the coil spring. Don't freak out if a spring goes into orbit. Have extras on hand if one does leave earth.
I learned a valuable lesson this time about grinding for clearance on a larger gear that I'll share: Do not test for fitment by using only two screws to hold the bridge in place! Use all four screws fully tight, as the bridge will move slightly when one screw or another is loose or missing. I thought I had full clearance for the larger gear, then fully assembled, and guess what? Yep...a slight rub. Also, test with drags tightened and loosened, as this will also shift the gear ever so slightly. 8)
Good info and ideas! Thanks for that Mo!
Very nice work,,,,, ;) and great for big cats too,,,,, ;D
I caught a 103# Gulf Grouper a few days ago using a Mak 20 SEa with 100#. That's now my grouper special!
Quote from: MarkT on November 17, 2019, 01:40:58 AM
I caught a 103# Gulf Grouper a few days ago using a Mak 20 SEa with 100#. That's now my grouper special!
I knew you were always partial to the newer stuff Mark... good for you.
Sal
Quote from: mo65 on November 16, 2019, 03:04:46 PM
Thanks everyone! Take your time with it Col...I've found the best approach when double-dogging is to analyze everything before diving in. Use simple things to help hold parts in place, like the tape I put on the flat springs, or a dab of grease on the coil spring. Don't freak out if a spring goes into orbit. Have extras on hand if one does leave earth.
I learned a valuable lesson this time about grinding for clearance on a larger gear that I'll share: Do not test for fitment by using only two screws to hold the bridge in place! Use all four screws fully tight, as the bridge will move slightly when one screw or another is loose or missing. I thought I had full clearance for the larger gear, then fully assembled, and guess what? Yep...a slight rub. Also, test with drags tightened and loosened, as this will also shift the gear ever so slightly. 8)
Thanks Mo, Good advice.
I find it extremely fascinating, reading all the posts of those modding and especially double dogging.
I'm in no hurry, I'm still working on my Squidder and a couple of 113h's left in the cue.
My first attempt at D/D' ing is going to be a 9/0, it will get the "full treatment".
Just really enjoying reading the posts like yours and especially so when they have photo's.
Cheers
Col
Quote from: mo65 on November 15, 2019, 07:03:09 PMI can't believe I made the last post on this thread almost 2 1/2 years ago...and just got around to doing this project! If Nelz hadn't mentioned wanting a faster 113 a few days ago I'd probably never remembered.
A little late to comment but I just saw this. Congrats on that hopped-up 113 Mo. I have the parts but haven't gotten around to it yet. I'm really hesitant about grinding the plate to fit the 5-149. What's a good tool to do that with?
Quote from: nelz on November 25, 2019, 08:50:42 PM
Quote from: mo65 on November 15, 2019, 07:03:09 PMI can't believe I made the last post on this thread almost 2 1/2 years ago...and just got around to doing this project! If Nelz hadn't mentioned wanting a faster 113 a few days ago I'd probably never remembered.
A little late to comment but I just saw this. Congrats on that hopped-up 113 Mo. I have the parts but haven't gotten around to it yet. I'm really hesitant about grinding the plate to fit the 5-149. What's a good tool to do that with?
It's not that hard to do, I used my cheapo battery powered Dremel. I prefer the low power cheapo for plate grinding...it's too slow to mess up much! 8)
Quote from: mo65 on November 25, 2019, 09:31:14 PM
It's not that hard to do, I used my cheapo battery powered Dremel. I prefer the low power cheapo for plate grinding...it's too slow to mess up much! 8)
You make a good point Mo😁.
Sal
What bit do you use?
Quote from: nelz on November 25, 2019, 11:22:40 PM
What bit do you use?
I've been asked this so many times. I don't know why I've never made a step by step tutorial of how to grind the plate. I guess it's because once you do one you realize how little is involved...it really is easier than it looks.
Most plates look like the one in the first photo, they have an area for both left and right AR dogs. You'll be working in the red circled area. These plates are the easiest to mod, but the older style with no left side cut away can also be modded with just a little more grinding. The first thing I do is make the spring slot with a standard cut off wheel. Then I use that same wheel to rough out a "shelf" for the new dog to ride on, that cut off wheel is pictured third. I use the bit in the last pic(circled in blue) to finish the job, as it makes nice smooth 90 degree cuts, and the finished work looks very much like it was milled.
This bit in the last photo is also a good one for enlarging the main gear's hole. A stone bit of similar dimensions works well too. This bit will "ride" on the terraced portion of the gear hole making enlargement a snap. 8)
Thanks Mo! I've got an old plate laying around that I'm going to practice on.
Thanks for showing that pic Mo.
Nelz, this has been talked about many times in the past, it is just a matter of you looking for it.
There are a bunch of tutorials on the double dogs, most on the penn senator section.
Shark Hunter has some , I have a couple and other members also have some, as Justin , Mike and a few others.
I do know I have tutorials from the 100 to the 20/0, most show the bits used.
On the 20/0 , I used an end mill, it did a much better job , but it isn't as safe as the bits Mo is showing.
Those you can actually touch while spinning and won't cut you.
Sal
I think the thread in the link below was the most helpful when I was researching the double dog system. It shows many people's versions, various spring types, and cutting methods.
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=23505.0
Mo, thanks, that's awesome info, cheers for sharing.
My double dog effort probably wont happen till the new year now, but that's some great info and link on the subject.
As you say, once you do one it becomes clearer, it's just that first one we have to do.
So much info available in this place, but that's made it easier. ( for us newbies)
Col
Quote from: milne on November 27, 2019, 01:59:14 AM
Mo, thanks, that's awesome info, cheers for sharing.
My double dog effort probably wont happen till the new year now, but that's some great info and link on the subject.
As you say, once you do one it becomes clearer, it's just that first one we have to do.
So much info available in this place, but that's made it easier. ( for us newbies)
Col
Just wondering if you ever tackled that double dog mod yet Col. 8)
Hi Mo, Hope all is well with you ??.
Mo, I have a sad confession to make, I haven't yet done the deed !!.
I can't believe how long ago that post was actually,,, BUT....
I have about 3 D/D projects on the go, I even collected some parts from some helpful contributors over your way, I think Ted may still have an item or two for me, which has been on hold for a while till I get things sorted.
My complete reel collection and all my project reels have been packed and boxed up for the best part of 4-5 months now, which has been completely frustrating. We move states in to our new home January 26 and I think the pod containers arrive a couple of weeks later with all by bit's and pieces.
Fortunately for me, the new place has a giant shed/workshop, of which I can set up a permanent work shop and dedicate an area solely for all my wee projects.
I have book marked your excellent posts on how too and am looking forward to getting set up and getting stuck into the reels.
I shall report back here when I do with some project photo's.....
Regards
Col