So first and foremost I wanna change to concurrently active 2 sprung dogs. I want an upgraded ratchet but given what I'm seeing re: availability that's like saying I want tickets to a nirvana concert; that ship has sailed. (Please please please let me know if I'm wrong on this! If someone still has some available please let me know!)
One thing I'm wondering, and yes I searched before asking, is has anyone attempted to install a 3rd. (Or 4th!?!?!?!) dog? I recognize that this would entail either drilling and threading a new mounting hole, or custom making a dog of a different size/shape to use an existing hole previously intended for a different purpose. Or making a custom bearing cover that has a wider base with a strategically placed screw hole (threads in the custom bearing cover, in threaded hole in reel body for extension of screw)
What I was considering might be the least painful approach to this bold mod is a longer dog that could utilize the transfer lever's existing mounting hole, but of course the longer a thin piece of metal the weaker it is, so materials would of course be a consideration.
So it's been fairly established that the dog and ratchet assembly is the weak point on these reels, thats why it gets so much attention from the mod crew). So what's the second weakest point? By that I mean say you get the anti reverse to be rock solid through a combination of mods, What would be the next thing to watch for failure (and by that i mean what's the next area to modify)?
And has anyone figured out how to improve the line lay for braid? I'd like to run 40-50 lb spectra, but I'd also like to be able to cast. (Modified crosswind gear with more teeth to accommodate the thinner line perhaps?) If I can't make braid functional on this guy my enthusiasm for the reel will drop considerably.
One can make the dogs synchronous as well as spring load the by adding springs but I have never tried it. I have not seen the dog system fail on these reels but definitely could be better in the back play.
And I have not seen. Anyone add more dogs. You may need to experiment with it yourself.
And regarding the line lay, I haven't seen anyone with a gear hob make one. Not sure I would like a finer line lay as you may encounter that the line will groove in if it's too fine.
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 29, 2020, 02:44:18 AM
One can make the dogs synchronous as well as spring load the by adding springs but I have never tried it. I have not seen the dog system fail on these reels but definitely could be better in the back play.
And I have not seen. Anyone add more dogs. You may need to experiment with it yourself.
And regarding the line lay, I haven't seen anyone with a gear hob make one. Not sure I would like a finer line lay as you may encounter that the line will groove in if it's too fine.
Admittedly I don't have a super strong understanding of what makes for good or bad line lay. My assumption was that the gearing in these were set up before the braid era so it was geared for the wider mono lines. How thick a strand is affects how far apart wraps should be to get it tight, right? That was my logic going in.
I wanna look at designing a 16 tooth ratchet and getting it cut. I have no idea how much such an item would cost. I guess there's only one way to find out.
I guess I should have been more clear when I talked about having this reel, it wasn't actually in my possession yet. I had found it for sale on CL. This fella had a pile of random fishing crap with a tagline basically "400 obo to take it all!" Most of it was junk but i spotted the SS in the pile. After getting him to remove the side plate to verify brass gearing I bought it for $60 (If i had known how clueless the guy was I would have offered 20). He was in Orlando, so i sent my brother to meet him.
Well I finally got to see my brother this weekend and got hold of the reel. Lets just say I pictured it being in better shape than it was. The anti reverse is more of a pro reverse (freely spins backwards unhindered in silent mode and clicks while spinning backward with the switch flipped), and there's sand between the spool and the rotor. I haven't even taken it apart yet and I'm already seeing this is gonna be a restoration mission before its an upgrade mission.
Well, I wanted a project reel. Pictures to come.
Ok so I may be talking to myself here, but am I correct in thinking that how close the rotor sits to the spool might be the next weak area to consider? Doesn't seem like it would take much deformation at all to make it rub, though I'm not sure at what drag pressure that would be a consideration.
Also I think I've decided I'm gonna strip and polish the aluminum instead of touching up the black paint (body and rotor). I've seen some pics and it looks super cool.
The rotor is pretty strong. I'd be more worried about the spool shaft bending before deforming the rotor.
Quote from: Bryan Young on September 01, 2020, 10:50:03 PM
The rotor is pretty strong. I'd be more worried about the spool shaft bending before deforming the rotor.
Sounds like I should pick up a spare spool shaft if I'm gonna be experimenting. Saw some on auction site for pretty cheap. Thank you.
I was going to suggest you buy some inexpensive parts reels if you are committed to this model and plan to stay with it for a while. Then I looked and realized there are no inexpensive parts reels. Those things really increased in value while I wasn't looking. They're getting greenie prices now.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on September 02, 2020, 04:58:02 AM
I was going to suggest you buy some inexpensive parts reels if you are committed to this model and plan to stay with it for a while. Then I looked and realized there are no inexpensive parts reels. Those things really increased in value while I wasn't looking. They're getting greenie prices now.
-steve
I've been seeing an influx of SS reels on CL. I guess to a certain portion of the fishing population these reels are getting old and they want something new and shiny. I'm glad i got mine for what i did when I did.
I actually just disassembled it tonight. The innards all appear to be in good working order. Knock on wood.
Attached is my before picture. A lot of the paint damage is on the rotor and the handle. I swiped the handle from my 750ssm for now until I can get a proper knob. The thing is, with the damage being on the rotor and the body being more or less clean I'm second guessing polishing it. Would it look goofy if I polished just the rotor?
So one of the things that annoys me is the bail wire. I tend to hold the rod such that the reel stem sits between my middle and ring fingers. Idk why, thats just how I've done it since i was a kid. The problem is the bail wire hits my index finger as it swings past. I haven't fished it yet but I assume that will cause trouble, for my finger. The correct answer of course is to change my grip. But I really don't like that answer. Do I need to consider the bail-less conversion? I found one on auction site but I'm not sure i wanna throw that $50 at the problem just yet. Also I've never fished a reel without a bail so i have no idea what I'd be signing myself up for...
Thoughts?
Rotor is a work in progress. I think I'm gonna go all the way.
Hi Jason, welcome to the site. A polished spinfisher would look pretty good, but corrosion or oxidation might be an issue if you use it in salt water without some sort of protective seal. Do you have a sealant in mind? Fred (foakes) and others here have had some success with baked enamel although I've never tried it.
Mike
Or, Mike could tell you how to re-anodize it.
-s
Anodizing I don't think will work well on a casting.
By my reading just about nothing actually has a foolproof adhesion to polished aluminum. So odds are I'll just wax it and have to keep up with it.
Rudy is correct, cast aluminium doesn't anodize very well. From what I've read, the casting alloys have stuff like copper, silicon, zinc, magnesium etc added to improve casting properties but these additives don't convert to aluminium oxide during anodizing and can result in a porous grey or speckled finish depending on what's in the alloy. The usual caustic etch used for aluminium removes Al but exposes more of the other stuff - some of the grown ups use an acid based etch tailored to the specific contaminates, nitric acid for the copper and fluoride-bearing acids for the silicon etc to remove some of the other stuff from the surface but still say it is unlikely to achieve great aesthetics.
I don't know what's in the alloy Penn used to cast the frame and rotor on the spinfisher reels but I'm reluctant to experiment and risk contaminating my bath - Sulphuric acid (for the bath) is hard to buy in Aus even though just about all vehicles have a few litres in their battery.
Mike
Progress! I truly underestimated how long this would take. Someone suggested I use oven cleaner because it would supposedly dissolve everything. It did not. I've just been sanding away. Obviously not finished yet.
I've never been one to wait around. It doesnt seem like I'm gonna find an aftermarket ratchet kit for sale, so I designed my own. I've started sending this out to machine shops for quotes this morning. If I get it cut and it works out, I'll make my .stl files available for download. Wish me luck!
I've changed the name of this thread to remove the word "ideas." We're past the idea stage, I'm building.
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 29, 2020, 02:44:18 AM
One can make the dogs synchronous as well as spring load the by adding springs but I have never tried it. I have not seen the dog system fail on these reels but definitely could be better in the back play.
with that in mind, why not just make the 2nd dog alternate (or, would it make too much of a racket)?
effectively double #stop-points / cut back-play in half, AND
provide backup for the original dog hitting original big ratchet teeth -- which never fails, anyway
here's an idea: design a "FLIPPABLE" 2nd dog -- i.e.,
on the same tapped hole, install the dog one way & it's concurrent... flip it over & it alternates
Quote from: philaroman on September 04, 2020, 06:13:32 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 29, 2020, 02:44:18 AM
One can make the dogs synchronous as well as spring load the by adding springs but I have never tried it. I have not seen the dog system fail on these reels but definitely could be better in the back play.
with that in mind, why not just make the 2nd dog alternate (or, would it make too much of a racket)?
effectively double #stop-points / cut back-play in half, AND
provide backup for the original dog hitting original big ratchet teeth -- which never fails, anyway
here's an idea: design a "FLIPPABLE" 2nd dog -- i.e., on the same tapped hole,
install the dog one way & it's concurrent... flip it over & it alternates
Interesting thoughts. If i wanted to make them alternate I would have 3 choices: move the post, give the ratchet an odd # of teeth, or possibly shorten a dog. Of all those the odd # of teeth would be the most feasible. If what I've heard (there's a youtube vid of one reeling posted my another forum member elsewhere) they're gonna make a racket anyway. Im fine with that. I want them working synchronously but i have no idea if they are aligned as such from the factory.
Also the image i posted has an octagonal cutout when it should be hex. That will be corrected before it goes to production.
A laser or waterjet shop will probably be able to do the parts for a lot less than a machinist. After the setup/job fee, the costs per unit go way down as well. There are some online shops that cater to hobbyists. It might be harder to get a local shop to handle a very small order. It is just not worth their time.
These are flat, two dimensional parts with some pretty generous tolerances, so machining is not necessary. Genereally speaking, these type of parts are not machined unless you need to get under a thou or three in accuracy.
If machined as drawn, a broach will need to be made to cut the hex hole, and broaching thinner stainless plate might get a bit tricky. Not sure that you can broach it in a press without some additional fixturing, so it may have to be a rotary broach. Also the part will have to be mounted on an indexer /fourth axis to cut the teeth (more fixturing?). Won't be cheap.
If you use a waterjet shop, the less costly machines cut an angled kerf that can be a problem with thicker mechanical parts, so you need to specify the tolerance for kerf angle in the bid request. A decent shop will know all about this and can advise you if they are not too busy.
With a laser cutter, kerf angle is typically less of a problem, but if the part needs any of the holes tapped, you may need to drill them separately, as work hardening on laser cut edges can be an issue.
Adam used to use a waterjet to cut the same parts that you are making. Lee does dogs and drag washers, both waterjet and laser (I think). I have cut a few 2D stainless and aluminum parts on a waterjet. Lots of fun. I haven't laser cut metals myself, so no firsthand knowledge.
BTW, pointy ratchet teeth might not be the best option, especially if you go with alternating dogs. You don't want to end up spearing a dog with a ratchet tooth. Not sure how much this matters for this particular reel. If you resized the ratchet diameter, or changed the dog length at all, there are some rules about designing dog and pawl systems for maximum strength that you may want to consider. There is a thread somewhere on this site that discusses this.
In terms of painting the reel, Powder coating is by far the best option. I have a couple threads on that, plus there are a few others. Rattle can and baking might be a less expensive option, just don't use the oven that you cook food in.
And if you want to do all of this the most economical way, Chad has a larger SS Penn for sale with lots of the goodies installed. It is in the classified section. Not as fun as doing it yourself, but almost always cheaper in the end.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on September 04, 2020, 09:51:32 PM
A laser or waterjet shop will probably be able to do the parts for a lot less than a machinist. After the setup/job fee, the costs per unit go way down as well. There are some online shops that cater to hobbyists. It might be harder to get a local shop to handle a very small order. It is just not worth their time.
These are flat, two dimensional parts with some pretty generous tolerances, so machining is not necessary. Genereally speaking, these type of parts are not machined unless you need to get under a thou or three in accuracy.
If machined as drawn, a broach will need to be made to cut the hex hole, and broaching thinner stainless plate might get a bit tricky. Not sure that you can broach it in a press without some additional fixturing, so it may have to be a rotary broach. Also the part will have to be mounted on an indexer /fourth axis to cut the teeth (more fixturing?). Won't be cheap.
If you use a waterjet shop, the less costly machines cut an angled kerf that can be a problem with thicker mechanical parts, so you need to specify the tolerance for kerf angle in the bid request. A decent shop will know all about this and can advise you if they are not too busy.
With a laser cutter, kerf angle is typically less of a problem, but if the part needs any of the holes tapped, you may need to drill them separately, as work hardening on laser cut edges can be an issue.
Adam used to use a waterjet to cut the same parts that you are making. Lee does dogs and drag washers, both waterjet and laser (I think). I have cut a few 2D stainless and aluminum parts on a waterjet. Lots of fun. I haven't laser cut metals myself, so no firsthand knowledge.
It seems like my path forward is water jet cutting. The part will be 2mm or 0.08" for what it's worth. I've been doing a lot of research, it's humbling seeing how much i didn't know about this topic. I could frame a house or build a dresser with ornate trim work for you, but i know very little about metal work.
QuoteBTW, pointy ratchet teeth might not be the best option, especially if you go with alternating dogs. You don't want to end up spearing a dog with a ratchet tooth. Not sure how much this matters for this particular reel. If you resized the ratchet diameter, or changed the dog length at all, there are some rules about designing dog and pawl systems for maximum strength that you may want to consider. There is a thread somewhere on this site that discusses this.
I'll have to dig up that thread. I put some thought into teeth angles etc, I'm kind of a geometry nerd. But I'm certain there's more to learn. I have no intention of alternating the dogs to me the point of having two is them working in unison. I plan to have dogs made of the same or stronger metal as the ratchet.
What if I just 3d printed it, made a mold, and cast it in brass? I may or may not have access to a home made blast furnace. I know it'll be weaker but i figure i can make a few and just replace more often. Not leaning toward that as the path forward but it seems to my non metallurgic brain an idea worth considering.
Quote
In terms of painting the reel, Powder coating is by far the best option. I have a couple threads on that, plus there are a few others. Rattle can and baking might be a less expensive option, just don't use the oven that you cook food in.
I'm gonna polish the heck out of it and likely wax it from time to time. I'm not painting it. I know I'm signing myself up for some upkeep but I have not seen another polished 8500SS. Kinda cool to be the only one or one of few.
Quote
And if you want to do all of this the most economical way, Chad has a larger SS Penn for sale with lots of the goodies installed. It is in the classified section. Not as fun as doing it yourself, but almost always cheaper in the end.
-J
I saw that. Its gorgeous and it partially inspired some of my choices. And you are absolutely correct and I don't disagree. But I'm already $150 and 6 labor hours into this. I'll likely be $220-250 and 20 hours into it before I call it finished. I could just buy a pretty decent reel for that and spend that time fishing.
This is 100% for the joy of it. I learned how computers work by building a computer. I learned how cars work by helping build cars. I took this as an opportunity to do the same for a reels. And I damn sure wasnt gonna start with a modern shimano or something. These reels are a bit more forgiving than many others for a beginner. Also I can never just do something simple like merely fix the busted AR by replacing the busted pieces (and i even bought the parts to do so!). I have a tendency to go overboard. But i have fun. My wife has learned to tolerate me.
Thank you for the informative post.
If you are going to have these mass-produced for distribution, then carry on. If it's a one-off (or two or three) then the fastest and most efficient method may be to take out a file and a dremel and carve it. You see dogs that are some sort of brass or bronze that is easy to work.
-s
Quote from: oc1 on September 05, 2020, 05:01:21 AM
If you are going to have these mass-produced for distribution, then carry on. If it's a one-off (or two or three) then the fastest and most efficient method may be to take out a file and a dremel and carve it. You see dogs that are some sort of brass or bronze that is easy to work.
-s
Man I wanna argue with you but you.might be onto something here. Given the dimensions I might be able to do that with a SS washer on the super cheap. I might actually already have some that are roughly the right dimensions (half inch hole, more than an inch outside and fairly thick) and a dremel. If the prices the water jet folks come back with aren't reasonable I may go that route.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 05, 2020, 02:07:44 PM
Quote from: oc1 on September 05, 2020, 05:01:21 AM
If you are going to have these mass-produced for distribution, then carry on. If it's a one-off (or two or three) then the fastest and most efficient method may be to take out a file and a dremel and carve it. You see dogs that are some sort of brass or bronze that is easy to work.
-s
Man I wanna argue with you but you.might be onto something here.
You will soon find out to never discount what Steve sez!
He has a lot of skills, common sense approaches, and experience.
He makes 1/0's out of coconut shells tied together with bamboo strips!
Steve is the first guy you want with you on the Wagon Train heading West.
Best, Fred
Quote from: foakes on September 05, 2020, 02:30:48 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 05, 2020, 02:07:44 PM
Quote from: oc1 on September 05, 2020, 05:01:21 AM
If you are going to have these mass-produced for distribution, then carry on. If it's a one-off (or two or three) then the fastest and most efficient method may be to take out a file and a dremel and carve it. You see dogs that are some sort of brass or bronze that is easy to work.
-s
Man I wanna argue with you but you.might be onto something here.
You will soon find out to never discount what Steve sez!
He has a lot of skills, common sense approaches, and experience.
He makes 1/0's out of coconut shells tied together with bamboo strips!
Steve is the first guy you want with you on the Wagon Train heading West.
Best, Fred
While you're here, you were mentioned as someone who may have input on how to seal polished aluminum (which is what I'll be doing with the body of the reel). Any comments to offer?
Quote from: foakes on September 05, 2020, 02:30:48 PM
Steve is the first guy you want with you on the Wagon Train heading West.
Nah, he'd have to keep stopping to go to the bathroom.
Steve is right as usual.
I am not a wizard with the hand tools like Steve, so I usually draw up and 3D print plastic fixtures/templates, file guides etc., for routing, grinding, cutting filing and bending small metal parts. Sounds like you have access to a 3D printer, so I would suggest giving this a go. An indexing file guide for the pawl teeth would be a fun project in its own right.
If you are using brass, any old set of mini files, drill bits, rotary burrs, etc. will work, but if you go for stainless you will need some better quality. Drill with slower RPMs and with some extra force and lots of cutting fluid on stainless, or it will work harden in an instant and fry your drill bits. You need to cut below the surface on each rotation, and the cutting edges have to keep digging (no rubbing). Stainless is a bit of a pain to work with rotary cutting/drilling. Do everything right and it cuts like butter, but get your feeds/speeds or cutting depth off, and it can be a miserable experience.
If you read up on work hardening and stainless steel and how to avoid it, you will be well on your way.
But maybe better to start with brass. One of the easiest metals to work with.
-J.
Quote from: jurelometer on September 07, 2020, 01:20:51 AM
But maybe better to start with brass. One of the easiest metals to work with.
Agreed. You don't see brass ratchets, but you do see brass dogs. It is as though the dog is sacrificial. In this case, both dog and ratchet are sacrificial because you can just make another one and have a good story to tell.
-s
Quote from: oc1 on September 07, 2020, 02:59:33 AM
Quote from: jurelometer on September 07, 2020, 01:20:51 AM
But maybe better to start with brass. One of the easiest metals to work with.
Agreed. You don't see brass ratchets, but you do see brass dogs. It is as though the dog is sacrificial. In this case, both dog and ratchet are sacrificial because you can just make another one and have a good story to tell.
-s
Wanna see a brass ratchet? Stock penn gear in the 8500SS
I still have a lot of polishing to do but I couldn't help myself. I wanted to see what it'll look like. This is gonna be worth it.
Are you going to anodize it or put some sort of seal/coating when you're done?
I polished up a 704Z and didn't do any coating. I use mother's polish on it every few months just to bring the shine back.
Nick
are you sure you want to keep polishing?
isn't that dull-grey just natural AlO2... kinda' like anodizing,
but only a few molecules deep, instead of layered on artificially
if that "aged aluminum" look was acquired away from salt -- maybe, keep it :-\
Once you get the tiny scratches out try some Simachrome on a demel polishing wheel. I've had pretty good results with that
Quote from: Swami805 on September 07, 2020, 03:52:48 PM
Once you get the tiny scratches out try some Simachrome on a demel polishing wheel. I've had pretty good results with that
I'm doing progressively finer sandpaper. I'll go to buffing compound with the dremel after I'm done with the 2000 sandpaper then likely a coat of carnauba wax.
Also I figured out which knob.
This has been done to the Penn 750 and 850SS reels for years now. This way you have 2 silent dogs on all the time. It also eliminates accidental turning both dogs off by the rear lever. To make the reel go backwards you have to turn both levers off.
I should have 2 of the clicking dogs in SS. Maybe the ratchet too. They used to be able for purchase here on the forum with the 16 tooth SS ratchet. It made the reel so loud most did not use it. It's nothing new.
Keith
Quote from: handi2 on September 07, 2020, 09:25:04 PM
This has been done to the Penn 750 and 850SS reels for years now. This way you have 2 silent dogs on all the time. It also eliminates accidental turning both dogs off by the rear lever. To make the reel go backwards you have to turn both levers off.
I should have 2 of the clicking dogs in SS. Maybe the ratchet too. They used to be able for purchase here on the forum with the 16 tooth SS ratchet. It made the reel so loud most did not use it. It's nothing new.
Keith
It seems the problem is its too old. Many of those cool bits were limited run parts that are now gone. I've been in contact with three se7vens and he may have one on a shelf somewhere. Am I interpreting you correctly that you may have a set available to spare? I may be going with the overly optimistic reading of what you said but if so I'm very interested.
I'm Not necessarily worried about noise but I can always go to double silent on the 16 tooth if it just gets to be too much.
After 30 minutes of looking I've found one SS dog. I have thousands of parts that are mostly in a mess. I'll keep looking.
Keith
Quote from: handi2 on September 08, 2020, 06:28:06 PM
After 30 minutes of looking I've found one SS dog. I have thousands of parts that are mostly in a mess. I'll keep looking.
Keith
Man that would drive me crazy. I don't think I'd successfully be able to identify anything. I have this reel disassembled in a tupperware, with a self imposed rule that unless I'm reassembling it only one part is allowed out of the bin at a time.
But I'm a terribly disorganized person and I know one missing piece and this show comes to a screeching halt. So I have to rein in my own chaos.
Looks like I skipped some stuff that was worthy of comment.
Quote from: ReelFishingProblems on September 07, 2020, 10:57:46 AM
...I polished up a 704Z...
That was you? (Or are there a few out there?) Well done. Your reel was my inspiration for the visual portion of this whole undertaking. When my wife is looking for someone to blame for the sound of constant sanding I'll send her your way.
Quote from: jurelometer on September 07, 2020, 01:20:51 AM
Steve is right as usual.
I'm noticing that.
Quote
:)Sounds like you have access to a 3D printer, so I would suggest giving this a go
I Do but its my brother in law's and he's 120 miles away. So it's available but not readily so.
QuoteDo everything right and it cuts like butter, but get your feeds/speeds or cutting depth off, and it can be a miserable experience.
If you read up on work hardening and stainless steel and how to avoid it, you will be well on your way.
Man I wish i had known about this 20 years ago as its something I've experienced many times and blown through many a drill bit and saw blade fighting. Not knowing enough to know what you need to learn about, etc. Again, if you need to dog ear a joint on trim moulding, I'm your guy. Metal, less so.
Quote
But maybe better to start with brass.
I've thought about it. My concern is that there's likely a reason Penn went with only 6 teeth on the stock ratchet. And that reason is that brass may not be strong enough for smaller teeth with any kind of longevity. So the answer may be that if I make it out of brass I'd need to make several and be ready to swap them out.
The other concern for manually cutting my own ratchet is that if I do a double sprung setup the dog and the teeth will rub constantly during rotation. If I use a steel ratchet and brass dogs, the business edge of the dogs will be worn down fairly quickly. So I would need to cut steel dogs as well.
Also I'm strongly considering sawing off and filing down the external bail trip. I hate the bail flipping during a cast, but I'm not sure I'd like a bail-less setup. I figure if there's ever a time to do it, its now. Any considerations here that might not be obvious to me?
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 10, 2020, 02:17:20 PM
I've thought about it. My concern is that there's likely a reason Penn went with only 6 teeth on the stock ratchet. And that reason is that brass may not be strong enough for smaller teeth with any kind of longevity. So the answer may be that if I make it out of brass I'd need to make several and be ready to swap them out.
The other concern for manually cutting my own ratchet is that if I do a double sprung setup the dog and the teeth will rub constantly during rotation. If I use a steel ratchet and brass dogs, the business edge of the dogs will be worn down fairly quickly. So I would need to cut steel dogs as well.
While it is important not to dismiss the possibility that something that looks goofy in a design was done for a good reason, it is also a mistake to give too much deference to the original designer. The more complicated the design, the more likely that screwups will occur. But it happens all the time on something as simple as a fishing reel. For example, Penn screwed up the dog and pawl design on the BajaSpecial/US Senator line in a very apparent way.
Alternating dogs will split up the wear. Remember that the big Penn conventionals have a brass dog and pawl system that is on the wrong side of the gears (gear ratio increases the load on the dog), and the pawl is on a shaft that is not well supported, so alignment is an issue. Dogs wearing out is not a major issue with these reels.
Not using too strong a spring tension will help decrease wear, as will rounding the pawl tooth tips.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that brass is going to be that bad. But if you are going to get them cut with a waterjet, might as well go stainless. 316 would be the best choice, but 302 is frequently used.
Also, there are a couple reasons why silent dogs would probably work better with bigger pawl teeth. But I don't want to get off track here.
Quote
Also I'm strongly considering sawing off and filing down the external bail trip. I hate the bail flipping during a cast, but I'm not sure I'd like a bail-less setup. I figure if there's ever a time to do it, its now. Any considerations here that might not be obvious to me?
You have hunt for the bail remnant at the end of each cast, and/or futz with the rotation so it will located in the optimal spot. Some types of fishing (e.g., unweighted live bait) require going from open bail to closed with a large fish taking off at speed. Flipping the bail by turning the handle is relatively safe and easy to accomplish. Trying to tuck some 80 lb spectra into the bail remnant while the coils are flying off the spool, not so much.
I think that wade-surf guys who fish lures popularized bail-less spinners. The full bail gets jammed up by the sand, and lure fishing does not require much free lining, although you can still get a pick up on the initial drop.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on September 10, 2020, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 10, 2020, 02:17:20 PM
I've thought about it. My concern is that there's likely a reason Penn went with only 6 teeth on the stock ratchet. And that reason is that brass may not be strong enough for smaller teeth with any kind of longevity. So the answer may be that if I make it out of brass I'd need to make several and be ready to swap them out.
The other concern for manually cutting my own ratchet is that if I do a double sprung setup the dog and the teeth will rub constantly during rotation. If I use a steel ratchet and brass dogs, the business edge of the dogs will be worn down fairly quickly. So I would need to cut steel dogs as well.
While it is important not to dismiss the possibility that something that looks goofy in a design was done for a good reason, it is also a mistake to give too much deference to the original designer. The more complicated the design, the more likely that screwups will occur. But it happens all the time on something as simple as a fishing reel. For example, Penn screwed up the dog and pawl design on the BajaSpecial/US Senator line in a very apparent way.
very true. Having a very limited amount of metalworking knowledge i have a tendency to assume that there's a valid reason someone who knows more than me did things the way they did. Not always true.
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Alternating dogs will split up the wear.
Yeah but it would double the noise and the load on the individual dogs and lessen the strengthening wffect of going to double sprung dogs. It would decrease handle play though which would be nice. Could be easily achieved by going to an odd # of teeth.
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Dogs wearing out is not a major issue with these reels.
You mean on these SS models or the big conventionals? I've generally heard that the dogs are the weakest point on these reels and do wear out. It's likely I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.
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Not using too strong a spring tension will help decrease wear, as will rounding the pawl tooth tips.
If I cut my own from steel I'll be rounding the tips a bit for this reason. 316 steel washers exist in the right size to minimize the cutting I'd have to do. Turns out brass washers are available in that size too, but a bit less common. I may go that route out of sheer laziness if it's that much easier to cut, AND i dont need to worry about corrosion. Maybe I'll split the difference and go to a 12 tooth brass edition.
Absolutely all of these options involve making my own springs. As such I will likely try to go as light as i can while still making them work. I suspect a strong spring will be felt in the force needed to turn the handle. Likely not a huge difference but I'm assuming it will be felt.
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I could be wrong, but I don't think that brass is going to be that bad. But if you are going to get them cut with a waterjet, might as well go stainless. 316 would be the best choice, but 302 is frequently used.
If i get them waterjet cut I'm going titanium. The difference in material price between that and steel is less of a factor than the minimum order sizes I'm running into (more on that later, I may try to rally the troops and put a larger order together but lets not get ahead of ourselves).
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Also, there are a couple reasons why silent dogs would probably work better with bigger pawl teeth. But I don't want to get off track here.
Let's not pretend this is a well focused thread.
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You have hunt for the bail remnant at the end of each cast, and/or futz with the rotation so it will located in the optimal spot. Some types of fishing (e.g., unweighted live bait) require going from open bail to closed with a large fish taking off at speed. Flipping the bail by turning the handle is relatively safe and easy to accomplish. Trying to tuck some 80 lb spectra into the bail remnant while the coils are flying off the spool, not so much.
I think that wade-surf guys who fish lures popularized bail-less spinners. The full bail gets jammed up by the sand, and lure fishing does not require much free lining, although you can still get a pick up on the initial drop.
-J
My limited understanding is that bail-less setups are better suited for those using lures, and other situations where there's always tension on the line. This rig will likely be primarily used with live bait, either free lining or with minimal weight so I'm not sure it would be a good idea. I feel like if i eliminate the bail trip then there's no risk of it flipping by surprise during a cast at the expense of my terminal tackle. Best of both worlds? To me it makes sense to do it now while I'm doing all this grinding before i finish polishing. So if i don't do it now it likely won't ever be done. (would it surprise you to learn that I massively underestimated the P.I.T.A. that I signed myself up for by deciding to polish the aluminum?)
consult the metal guys about how much to remove...
pretty sure you don't want to cut it anywhere close to flush (gross structural weakening)
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You mean on these SS models or the big conventionals? I've generally heard that the dogs are the weakest point on these reels and do wear out. It's likely I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.
Conventional star drags with gear sleeves have a problem keeping the handle shaft straight. This causes gear shredding (the predominant case) and can cause dog failure ( I believe relatively rare for most Senator models, but the reel repair experts can correct me). At any rate, stronger dog/pawl materials don't help much, if you have angled the pawl above/below the dog. Sticking more dogs in doesn't help much either. The gear sleeve is the weak link on these reels. For the reels with well supported dog shafts (i.e. screw through, not peened in posts), the dogs hold well. None of these design issues are very relevant to you spinner other than dog post support.
I have fished completely beat down 113H reels used for commercial rod and reel fishing, where the handle is loose, the gears are grinding, you have to slap the sideplate to get it to go into gear. Just about everything on the reel worn out, but the dogs are just clicking away, same as day one from the factory.
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Alternating dogs will split up the wear.
Yeah but it would double the noise and the load on the individual dogs and lessen the strengthening wffect of going to double sprung dogs. It would decrease handle play though which would be nice. Could be easily achieved by going to an odd # of teeth.
As I mentioned before, having dogs work in unison may not be the strongest option. Has to do with elasticity (or lack thereof) in the dog system, and the acceleration gained from additional backplay. Acres of threads on this topic.
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I suspect a strong spring will be felt in the force needed to turn the handle. Likely not a huge difference but I'm assuming it will be felt.
Not much on a big reel like this. Lighter springs means that you might not have to hand out earplugs :)
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If i get them waterjet cut I'm going titanium. The difference in material price between that and steel is less of a factor than the minimum order sizes I'm running into (more on that later, I may try to rally the troops and put a larger order together but lets not get ahead of ourselves).
Haven't worked with titanium. If it is annealed, it is in the soft side, mebbe too soft for your purpose.
BTW most brass is less saltwater corrosion resistant than most 300 series stainless steel.
If you just want a quick rundown, McMaster Carr has an overview for each class of metal that sells ("About Brass", etc.) It covers most of the bases for the most common alloys and tempering options.
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This rig will likely be primarily used with live bait, either free lining or with minimal weight so I'm not sure it would be a good idea. I feel like if i eliminate the bail trip then there's no risk of it flipping by surprise during a cast at the expense of my terminal tackle. Best of both worlds?
I don't understand what you mean by best of both worlds on the bail modification. If you have ever had a decent tuna pick up a free-lined bait on the run, you know how fast the coils can fly off the spool. Without a full bail, you have to stick your finger in there to guide the line to the roller and start winding without getting a wrap around your finger. With braid, a hard charging fish will do some damage. That wrap is not coming off of your finger until the fish stops, breaks off, you cut the line, or you pickup the new nickname of "Stubby".
If somebody handed me a live baited spinner without a full bail during a hot tuna bite, I would hand it back, and take a seat. But that's just the opinion of a person who is attached to his fingers.
-J
J,
he means to cutshave external bail-trip for manual-only full bail
needs to know how much "nub" to remove w/out loss of structural integrity ???
You've given me a lot to think about. I might be back to the drawing board on some of it. However it seems like many of the penn ss setups with upgraded AR systems tend to at least look like they're working in unison. Looks like i have some reading to do because I don't understand the contradiction.
What about double silent dogs with a light spring assist?
Re bail modification. I want to keep the full bail wire intact. I wanna remove the nub from the stem. Picture is worth a thousand words, see below:
I haven't thought about the SS series specifically, but it works something like this:
Double dogs will never engage in unison. One will always connect before the other, and not always the same one. If the mechanism is fairly crude (like an SS series spinner) there is a pretty big gap. In order for the second dog to contribute, the first has to give. If there is enough elasticity in the system, then both dogs will contribute. But if the system is rigid, then something has to actually deform before the other dog can help (e.g., a dog post hole deforming), which means that you are pushing past the limit of the dog/pawl. Since the lead dog will probably switch off (e.g., due to a a slightly eccentric pawl) both will begin failing. If the failure is fairly benign, then you will get the load sharing you desire. But if the damage is sufficient, you basically end up with the same damage that you would have with alternating dogs, without the benefit. It depends on the reel design. Reels with pressed in posts for the dog shaft are kinda screwed once the post gets loosened.
Second: In order to bang on the dogs, the fish has to swim. The more slack that you give it, the more the fish can accelerate, smacking the pawl against the dog harder. Alternating dogs cut this distance in half, an each dog will only get half as many whacks over the life of the reel. There is a thingy in physics about the affect of impact vs normal force, but I forgot how it works. But the gist of it was that impact can be more damaging. If I want to drive a nail, I will hit with the hammer. I don't push on it.
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Silent dogs sort of suck in terms of reliability, and they need bigger teeth to engage (more backplay). The only benefit is that they are silent. If you want to go with a lighter spring, you can use standard dogs. It just requires a bit more diligence on maintenance, which is also required of silent dogs.
My guess is that combing dog ears and springs would be net loss, but it is just an opinion. I could be wrong.
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I understand what you mean now about the bail- you want to remove the bail whacker. Other folks have done this. If there is enough room, maybe a small cap, so that this can be reversed if you change your mind later?
-J
Those posts for tripping the bail make a loud thud. If the bail is already snug against the post, it is hard to turn the handle. But, there are the advantages of being able to see where the bail is in relation to the post and being able to easily close it manually. After making semi-conscious adjustments to the way you use the reel in order to avoid the loud thump and hang-up, muscle memory will take hold. Manually closing the bail every time will become second nature and as smooth as silk.
Or, you can cut it off.
-steve
Quote from: jurelometer on September 11, 2020, 02:06:44 AM
I haven't thought about the SS series specifically, but it works something like this:
Double dogs will never engage in unison. One will always connect before the other, and not always the same one. If the mechanism is fairly crude (like an SS series spinner) there is a pretty big gap. In order for the second dog to contribute, the first has to give. If there is enough elasticity in the system, then both dogs will contribute. But if the system is rigid, then something has to actually deform before the other dog can help (e.g., a dog post hole deforming), which means that you are pushing past the limit of the dog/pawl. Since the lead dog will probably switch off (e.g., due to a a slightly eccentric pawl) both will begin failing. If the failure is fairly benign, then you will get the load sharing you desire. But if the damage is sufficient, you basically end up with the same damage that you would have with alternating dogs, without the benefit. It depends on the reel design. Reels with pressed in posts for the dog shaft are kinda screwed once the post gets loosened.
Second: In order to bang on the dogs, the fish has to swim. The more slack that you give it, the more the fish can accelerate, smacking the pawl against the dog harder. Alternating dogs cut this distance in half, an each dog will only get half as many whacks over the life of the reel. There is a thingy in physics about the affect of impact vs normal force, but I forgot how it works. But the gist of it was that impact can be more damaging. If I want to drive a nail, I will hit with the hammer. I don't push on it.
Man for some reason I thought this would be a simple project. But literally nothing ever is.
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Silent dogs sort of suck in terms of reliability, and they need bigger teeth to engage (more backplay). The only benefit is that they are silent. If you want to go with a lighter spring, you can use standard dogs. It just requires a bit more diligence on maintenance, which is also required of silent dogs.
My guess is that combing dog ears and springs would be net loss, but it is just an opinion. I could be wrong.
Ok so nevermind on the silent dogs. Sooner or later I'll run thru all my bad ideas and eventually settle on the good ones.
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I understand what you mean now about the bail- you want to remove the bail whacker. Other folks have done this. If there is enough room, maybe a small cap, so that this can be reversed if you change your mind later?
-J
Quote from: oc1 on September 11, 2020, 04:34:57 AM
Those posts for tripping the bail make a loud thud. If the bail is already snug against the post, it is hard to turn the handle. But, there are the advantages of being able to see where the bail is in relation to the post and being able to easily close it manually. After making semi-conscious adjustments to the way you use the reel in order to avoid the loud thump and hang-up, muscle memory will take hold. Manually closing the bail every time will become second nature and as smooth as silk.
Or, you can cut it off.
-steve
Man I just want it gone. I want the bail to flip when I manually flip it and at no other time. I've been known to disable the auto trip on my other reels. This will be is the first one where doing so involves a hacksaw. I will likely leave a little bump because philaroman has scared me about structural integrity and if I snap a stem and need a new housing after spending this much time polishing I'm gonna freaking lose my mind.
I understand exactly what you mean,
but err on the side of caution... measure twicethrice, cut once... and all that good crap
figure an imaginary line that would allow the bail to clear & cut well above!!!
get down to the "right height" w/ a hand file, SLOWLY, while you round things off & make 'em pretty
you can always remove more, but can't put the filings back on ;D
Progress so far. Gave it a few passes with the 1000 grit paper. Gonna hit 1500 then 2000 then on to the polish. Oh and I cut the whacker.
Gonna try my hand at cutting this ratchet this weekend. Knock on wood this thing is starting to wrap up.
Looking good Jason - you're putting a lot of effort into this reel, I'm keen to see how it turns out. I've modified a few reels over recent years and one thing I've learnt is it always takes me a lot longer than I first estimate.
Mike
You're making some reel progress. Now is the fun/frustrating part. I kind of sped through the sanding process with my 704 and left some deeper scratches from course sandpaper on the bottom of the rotor cup. I never got them fully out before polishing it. It still shines but it is less than perfect by a lot. It drives me nuts.
Quote from: ReelFishingProblems on September 12, 2020, 12:15:18 PM
You're making some reel progress. Now is the fun/frustrating part. I kind of sped through the sanding process with my 704 and left some deeper scratches from course sandpaper on the bottom of the rotor cup. I never got them fully out before polishing it. It still shines but it is less than perfect by a lot. It drives me nuts.
I had to make the tough call after 800 grit. There were still some big scratches. I decided yes they would bother me so I went back to 320 grit and went ham. Now its nice and smooth.
However I feel like i need to remind myself this is for the beach not the shelf. Sooner or later there will be scratches. But I want it nice and smooth at least once.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 12, 2020, 06:16:33 AM
Knock on wood this thing is starting to wrap up.
Didn't knock on wood hard enough. I knocked over my Tupperware on the porch. parts went everywhere, and there's a potentially unforgivable chip on the spool. Some bad scratches elsewhere but i buffed those out. But i may need a new spool. Don't tell my wife.
Ouch
Sorry brother
If I'm going to a full time double sprung dog setup that will never be disengaged, , do i need the eccentric assemblies and switches or can those just be deleted?
if I can delete them, maybe that lower switch becomes a drain plug? It's not the lowest point in the gear box but a small channel could be cut. just a thought.
Also, I finally showed this to my wife. Unsurprisingly she doesnt get it. Basically her reaction was "if thats what's keeping you entertained lately I can think of a lot worse things to spend time on, but I don't see the point. Why not just fish with a new reel?"
I'm sure many of you have experienced similar with your significant others. Do they ever get it? She has no interest in fishing whatsoever but is happy to rearrange the meal plan to eat the ones I bring home while they're fresh (and sometimes even cooks them for me!)
Scale of 1-10 how cheesy would it be to resin in or otherwise securely attach this mini shark tooth that I found to the rotor? I'm expecting this reel to see a bit of shark action. Reasons why it's dumb are welcome.
"to the rotor" part is questionable -- otherwise, kinda' cool... just don't get carried away
I'm sure the Bedazzled 300 Guy started w/ just one rhinestone ;D ;D ;D
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14701.0
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20979.0
didn't anyone save a photo? they seem to be "scrubbed" from the web (yet, burned into my retina)
Quote from: philaroman on September 21, 2020, 10:54:10 AM
"to the rotor" part is questionable -- otherwise, kinda' cool... just don't get carried away
I'm sure the Bedazzled 300 Guy started w/ just one rhinestone ;D ;D ;D
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14701.0
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20979.0
didn't anyone save a photo? they seem to be "scrubbed" from the web (yet, burned into my retina)
Man, the comments make me either wish I could see the pics, or glad I couldn't. Some people have too much time on their hands, and use it to do weird stuff. Some of the car builds I've seen shop owners come up with really leave me scratching my head. But i guess when you have 15 fully serious builds you can make the 16th-25th goofy.
I mean heck, some might say I went too gaudy by polishing mine (i may be inclined to agree). It seems to be more of a spectrum than a line in the sand.
don't worry -- you're nowhere near The Bedazzler
this was someone on eBay, who went insane w/ old 300's & a glue-gun (no "build" involved)
I imagine an old widow "sprucing up" hubby's reels, while he's spinning in his grave like a rotor
not sure if images of her(?) creations need to be never seen again,
or found & preserved as a cautionary tale :o
Too bad photos of those things were not preserved for posterity. That person must have done at least a few dozen 300'S. Now that they have disappeared from ebay you have to wonder where they all went. Maybe in a few decades they will start to reemerge.
Yeah, the shark tooth is really cheesy. Others can choose to not like it but art is art.
-steve
I like the shark tooth thing. How about putting it on the gear box.
Gee, now I may have'ta have the kid send me the jaws I have in the wife's garage on the mainland. Only a 4' Pelagic White Tip, but an oversized head/mouth with relatively large teeth for this species. Maybe the lower jaw spikey ones on one side and the triangular serrated ones on the other side? The wife would never understand but that kinda makes it even cooler.
Quote from: oc1 on September 21, 2020, 08:18:00 PM
Too bad photos of those things were not preserved for posterity. That person must have done at least a few dozen 300'S. Now that they have disappeared from ebay you have to wonder where they all went. Maybe in a few decades they will start to reemerge.
Yeah, the shark tooth is really cheesy. Others can choose to not like it but art is art.
-steve
seriously, Steve
I scrolled all the way down to a young, skinny, sparkly Jerry Garcia -- no bedazzled 300's
it's like some MIB Master Hacker / Mitchell fan got offended & scrubbed the internet
Jason,
just carve a whole Meggy sideplate ;D ;D ;D
Why no to on the rotor? is it thaaaat precisely balanced that the addition will throw it off?
why have a sharp protrusion closer to line? ...and, spinning ???
it's something cool to look at & you can't tell what it is, when spinning
balance throw-off too minute to hurt, but sure won't help
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 22, 2020, 12:25:30 AM
Why no to on the rotor? is it thaaaat precisely balanced that the addition will throw it off?
It's not just the fossilized tooth, the weight also includes all the embedding compound needed to smooth over the protrusions. But, there are no fishing reel police so.... whatever.
You could carve out the rotor so the tooth becomes an inlay instead of something attached to the surface. Cut a hole in the rotor, back the hole with duct tape, set the tooth in the hole, fill the hole and cover the tooth with clear casting resin.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on September 22, 2020, 04:52:00 AM
But, there are no fishing reel police so.... whatever.
So Alan himself won't be coming to slap the cuffs on? :(
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You could carve out the rotor so the tooth becomes an inlay instead of something attached to the surface. Cut a hole in the rotor, back the hole with duct tape, set the tooth in the hole, fill the hole and cover the tooth with clear casting resin.
-steve
That's actually a really good idea. Just a bit... Permanent...
My concern (beyond the balance issues that wiser folks have pointed out) with mounting a shark tooth is stability. What are the conditions gonna be like you are fishing in? Extreme cold or hot? I would just be concerned that repeated exposure to extremes would cause the different substances, with different thermal expansion rates, to not play nice and delaminate. And while the tooth will be embedded in the resin, you still will need to reckon on the bond that the resin has with the spool over that area, regardless of how thick it is. Especially since it is a rotor cup that is a relatively thin cross section of metal with a lot of surface area for thermal interaction. Cool shark tooth BTW. I wonder if this is also not a contributing factor to all the folks with "Greenies" that are missing medallions? Different metals that over time expand/contract at different rates, until suddenly the medallion pops off? Not sure since I have never fished with or owned a Greenie to have personal experience.
On a side note, I have seen some beautiful polished reels. Even a trick custom paint job requires a lot of surface prep followed by finish work. Not to my taste, but I can totally appreciate the level of work that goes into them. - john
It was a very productive night. I'm having issues with the new (old) main gear I bought, the handle isn't screwing in.. It may be stripped. I have another if thats the case, that just means I can't fish it this morning. But man its getting there. Special thanks to Lee (keta) for the SS ratchet set that i didnt even need to cut myself.
I was just steadily working on it after the wife and kids went down. I finished up and looked back at the clock: 4am! Time flies.
how many manhours personhours(?) is that?
would this have helped? (sorry, didn't think you could get small/cheap aircraft stripper):
https://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-352969-Aircraft-Remover/dp/B086DL1PKG/ref=sr_1_5?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&dchild=1&keywords=rustoleum+aircraft+remover+gallon&linkCode=ur2&linkId=SIZARKPLVFQSKT6F&qid=1601141857&sr=8-5&tag=mjsacom-20 (https://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-352969-Aircraft-Remover/dp/B086DL1PKG/ref=sr_1_5?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&dchild=1&keywords=rustoleum+aircraft+remover+gallon&linkCode=ur2&linkId=SIZARKPLVFQSKT6F&qid=1601141857&sr=8-5&tag=mjsacom-20)
...whatever -- it's a lbor of love: get a can... keep going... start a trend ;D
I used Easy Off... how does it compare to Aircraft Remover?
I don"t know about this specific product, but stuff sold as aircraft paint remover can have VOCs that are super toxic. There are some newer products that claim to be much less toxic.
It is wayyy too easy to buy some pretty scary stuff online.
-J
never tried, can't comment on safety, but would expect more effective -- formulated for tough paint on strong AL alloys... EO is formulated for grease on enamel
I tried easy off. No effect on the paint whatsoever. Didn't expect that. But the paint is an enamel. So if its meant to be safe on enamel I guess I should have expected it.
It's alive!
The custom spring I added is far too strong. The stock spring is plenty strong enough to do the job, but is far quieter. Never expected nor wanted silence, but in its current state its louder than the drag clicker, and that's just excessive. I have an idea for how i can utilize a 2nd stock spring, but it involves some custom work. Gonna experiment with that maybe tonight.
Also just to be clear: I know i took a work horse and made it look like a show pony. I assure you it will still be treated like a work horse. I will be using it at beaches and jetties. I know it'll get scratched. I'm not worried about that. This was about the journey, not the destination.
love the look, but "beaches and jetties" would scare me
I'd try it for brackish Stripers, first & see how it holds up
Quote from: philaroman on September 28, 2020, 06:05:36 PM
love the look, but "beaches and jetties" would scare me
I'd try it for brackish Stripers, first & see how it holds up
No stripers in FL. Ok i hear theres some up in the panhandle but thats kinda far. Point taken though. I suspect it'll start out against redfish and snook, even though my 4000 size reels are more than adequate for those (just because those are my favorites to eat and I'll be targeting them anyway) and i suspect I'll next head to gandy bridge here in Tampa to chase some bonnet heads before I upgrade to the bigger toothier beasts. With 500 yds of 50 lb braid I bet I can target a lot, once I know the AR kit is up to the task. I worry those teeth may not be tall enough, but only one way to find out.
Looks fantastic Jason. Silver and gold. And I don't even get into the looks to much.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on January 19, 1970, 12:48:30 PM
I have an idea for how i can utilize a 2nd stock spring, but it involves some custom work.
Ok so i took a spare pinion spacer I had laying around and modified it a bit. I shaved down one side to sit flush against the bearing cover, and shaved down the bottom to fit on the raised area between the dog stud and the bearing cover, and drilled a carefully spaced hole into which a stuffed a folder over piece of spring wire. This allows the stock spring to function on the silent dog side the same way it works on the stock sprung side. It still needs a bit more refinement but the bottom line is
IT WORKS!!I took a pic but I've refined the shape further since then. I need to go back and take a pic of it in place and working.
Quote from: Gfish on September 29, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Looks fantastic Jason. Silver and gold. And I don't even get into the looks to much.
Thank you. I'm not usually one to care about aesthetics for something like this, but this has been a lot of fun and I'm glad I did it this way. It may be the only truly one of a kind thing that i own.