Reel Repair by Alan Tani

I started surf fishing here in Southern California for the first time last summer, and I fell in love with it. The one thing, however, that I have not liked about it is all the added reel maintenance. I like to wade out to about my hips, and it's not uncommon for the occasional larger than average wave to soak my reel. Unfortunately I find myself having to break down my reel multiple times during the season to keep it working properly. I first started with a 2500 Shimano Sahara and eventually upgraded to a 2500 Penn Battle 2. I don't mind opening a reel up and working on it, I just prefer to do it after a good season of fishing, not multiple times during the season.

This led me to start searching the web for a reel that was either better protected against the harsh surf conditions, or at the very least find one that is easier and quicker to service. The old Penn Z series reels kept coming up in conversation on various different fishing forums, and not wanting to invest the money in a Van Staal I decided to give one of these old spinfishers a try. So I bought a blue 720 off of Ebay.

Why this outdated reel still appeals to certain fishermen became pretty obvious the first time I open it up. What a simple and easy reel to take apart! I haven't had the chance to fish her yet, although I am hoping to take her out sometime this week. But before I get out on the water I have a couple of questions:

Is there anyway to make the 720 a manual bail?

What is the stock max drag on one of these reels? The first thing I did was upgrade the drags to carbonfiber. I don't need much drag, as most of what I target are panfish, croaker, corbina, and the occasional rockfish and sheepshead depending on where I am fishing. I'm only asking out of curiosity.

After reading some posts on the stripers forums I went ahead and packed the reel housing with grease. Unsurprisingly the reel is now pretty stiff. Hopefully I get use to it. From what I have read packing the housing full of grease will help keep salt and sand out, and assuming I'm not frequently dunking the reel or taking it for a swim I shouldn't have to worry about repacking it again until after a full summer of fishing, correct? Anyways I'm excited to try this reel out, and assuming it isn't horrible at casting, and doesn't require an excessive amount of maintenance outside of rinsing it off after every trip then I might just have found a new favorite spinning reel.

You could make any reel a bailess if you wanted to, all you do is cut or on some just remove the bail wire.
I believe you are using the wrong reel for the job, those are more for freshwater than saltwater.
You could very well use them for saltwater, but you need to keep after.
We do not fill the cavity of the housing anymore and there is no need to.
I did a little tutorial on the 722...same reel with minor differences:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2180.msg11851#msg11851
My opinion to you is to get a little larger reel for the surf.

Sal

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 26, 2018, 09:39:22 PM
You could make any reel a bailess if you wanted to, all you do is cut or on some just remove the bail wire.
I believe you are using the wrong reel for the job, those are more for freshwater than saltwater.
You could very well use them for saltwater, but you need to keep after.
We do not fill the cavity of the housing anymore and there is no need to.
I did a little tutorial on the 722...same reel with minor differences:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2180.msg11851#msg11851
My opinion to you is to get a little larger reel for the surf.

Sal

Thanks for the response, Sal.

My apologies. I guess I wasn't clear. I was asking if there was a way to manually close the bail on these reels.

Out of curiosity what makes this reel not ideal for saltwater? Does this model have inferior parts? Scott's Bait and Tackle has it listed as both a light fresh water and saltwater reel.

Currently I've been running a 2500 reel, 6-8lb line, on a medium light St. Croix Triumph (7' and 4-10lb rating) for my surf fishing. I've been fishing the lighter gear so I can enjoy the fight of the perch and other panfish (sargo, halfmoon, etc). This reel, in terms of line capacity, seems to fall in between a 2000 and 2500 reel. I think it should have enough line capacity, as that has never been a problem with the 2500's, although those reels did have braid on them, and from what I hear this one is best used with straight mono. I hope it works out. I do prefer the blue paint job over the later black models.

Glad to hear I don't have to pack it with grease. It's definitely stiffer than I currently like with all that grease in it.

Thanks again.

Honestly, there is no need for a bigger reel if you are surf fishing in Socal. I used to surf fish in San Diego and caught the same species that you mentioned. It's more fun with light tackle.

Most of what you are reading is in respect to east coast surf fishing where most people are targeting striped bass, bluefish, and redfish down south. The older reels that people are surf fishing with are mainly 704Z and 706Z reels. Those reels are fine to pack with grease because they are larger. Nevertheless, it does make them feel a bit sluggish. Something as small as a 720 is going to feel really sluggish when packed. Smaller the reel, the more sensitive it is to viscous grease.

I don't know if you've ever fished a Van Staal but they also are very sluggish. The reels are made waterproof due to rubberized gasket seals. The tolerances are really tight to keep water out. They are the best in my opinion if you want a "waterproof" reel. The down side it they are expensive and difficult to maintain. Parts are really expensive. If you do end up going to VS route, check out the VR series. They are a lot cheaper and the pinon gear is removable unlike the older series.

Technically, you can make any reel bailess by cutting off part of the bail but it will throw off the balance of the reel. It will add a lot of rotor wobble. Some of the larger Penn Z series had a kit you could buy to convert it. I have one for my 704Z.

Quote from: Jenx on February 26, 2018, 10:57:08 PM

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 26, 2018, 09:39:22 PM
You could make any reel a bailess if you wanted to, all you do is cut or on some just remove the bail wire.
I believe you are using the wrong reel for the job, those are more for freshwater than saltwater.
You could very well use them for saltwater, but you need to keep after.
We do not fill the cavity of the housing anymore and there is no need to.
I did a little tutorial on the 722...same reel with minor differences:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2180.msg11851#msg11851
My opinion to you is to get a little larger reel for the surf.

Sal

Thanks for the response, Sal.

My apologies. I guess I wasn't clear. I was asking if there was a way to manually close the bail on these reels.

Out of curiosity what makes this reel not ideal for saltwater? Does this model have inferior parts? Scott's Bait and Tackle has it listed as both a light fresh water and saltwater reel.

Currently I've been running a 2500 reel, 6-8lb line, on a medium light St. Croix Triumph (7' and 4-10lb rating) for my surf fishing. I've been fishing the lighter gear so I can enjoy the fight of the perch and other panfish (sargo, halfmoon, etc). This reel, in terms of line capacity, seems to fall in between a 2000 and 2500 reel. I think it should have enough line capacity, as that has never been a problem with the 2500's, although those reels did have braid on them, and from what I hear this one is best used with straight mono. I hope it works out. I do prefer the blue paint job over the later black models.

Glad to hear I don't have to pack it with grease. It's definitely stiffer than I currently like with all that grease in it.

Thanks again.

As FatTuna as mentioned you should do just fine with that little reel, when I read Rockfish, at our end that could mean 50-60lb fish.
Unfortunately you will not be able to close the bail by hand on that reel. unless you turn the handle first to unlock the mechanism.
The reel will feel much better when you take all that grease out of it. Have fun using it, I also enjoy using the lightest gear for the job. Me and my son use the 420ss  when targeting Perch on a really sensitive rod,  on those you could close the bail by hand.

Best,

Sal
Sal

   I don't think the 720 is too small for what you want to do...but as far as strength you would be better with a 430ss or a 714z. They have brass main/steel pinion as opposed to the 720's aluminum main/brass pinion. I use a 720 for Crappie fishing...but that's very light fishing. Also, I have fished braid on my 720 very successfully, no complaints there. 8)

The 43-720 part is the weak link in the 720/722 design (the plastic slider on the main gear), however obtain an aluminum one from Pennparts to keep in as a spare to use when the original breaks. Make sure you wipe it down with warm water after use. I used my 722 with 10 pound test mono in the back bay behind Stone Harber NJ.

Mo, what brand and size braid are you using with your 720? I keep reading that they aren't braid friendly, so I am happy to hear you are having no problems.

Is the 720 the only z series with the weaker aluminum and brass combo? I'm not too worried about the strength of the reel as I doubt I will be catching anything larger than 2-3lbs, with most being much smaller than that. I chose the 720 over the 714 and 716 because it was listed as weighing the same as those two reels, yet had a larger spool capacity. I was not aware they had different gears inside.

George, I saw the aluminum crosswind block, but it costs nearly as much as I paid for the entire reel. I want to find out if I like the reel first before I make that investment. I might look for another plastic one in the meantime as a backup.

Thanks again.

Good luck trying to find a 43-720 part. The other wear part is the nylon anti-reverse 48-720 the tips break off but they are still available. Just buy a half dozen in case you need one.

   I've had a few types of braid on my reel, they've all worked fine. Currently it's spooled with 12lb. white Nanofil. If you're catching 2-3lb. fish it will be more than strong enough. Unfortunately, that plastic crosswind block probably will crumble if you fish the reel much, mine didn't last long. Who knows, yours may last forever, but the aluminum replacement is worth the investment for reliability. 8)

Haha, you have talked me into buying the aluminum crosswind block (not that it's hard to talk me into buying upgraded parts).

George, I already have a new 48-720 part. I bought this reel blind off of ebay, and not knowing what condition the reel was in I preemptively bought some parts from Scott's bait and tackle that I thought were likely in need of being replaced, which was mostly springs and washers, as well as part 48-720. Unfortunately they are out of part 6B-720 which is the eccentric liner. Mine has a crack in it. hopefully it holds up.

Thanks again.

Just out of curiosity, have you compared this reel to the 430SS? The 430SS has better line capacity, better gears, lighter reel ,better spool and it looks better :)...just a thought. Oh, you could close the bail by hand.

Sal

Quote from: Jenx on February 26, 2018, 10:57:08 PM
I was asking if there was a way to manually close the bail on these reels.

Not without something to pry the bail release arm out of the slot.  You can do it with a thumbnail if you take the pressure off of it first.  Probably not something you would want to do on every cast.

The 716 has a slightly larger spool but is not much larger overall.  The 716 has better guts in my opinion.

-steve

Quote from: Jenx on February 27, 2018, 02:03:48 AM
Is the 720 the only z series with the weaker aluminum and brass combo?

   The 722 is built the same, I think the 747 and 757 share this build style also. It is interesting to note that when the SS series replaced the Z series only the tiny 420ss and 430ss continued the old build style while all the larger models took on the...I won't call it weaker...how about "more economical" build style. 8)

Quote from: mo65 on February 27, 2018, 03:19:31 PM

Quote from: Jenx on February 27, 2018, 02:03:48 AM
Is the 720 the only z series with the weaker aluminum and brass combo?

   The 722 is built the same, I think the 747 and 757 share this build style also. It is interesting to note that when the SS series replaced the Z series only the tiny 420ss and 430ss continued the old build style while all the larger models took on the...I won't call it weaker...how about "more economical" build style. 8)

I like the way you phrased that Mo😄.
A new rotor and skirted spool on the larger Z's and you'll end up whith a heck of a reel.
Oh, and a new metal replacement for those cheap plastic covers.

As for aluminum gears, the Penn Silver series in also worth mentioning.

IMO the Silver series, made in Japan, are functionally identical to single bearing Olympic and Daiwa reels of the 80's. I just picked up another 103 for 15 bucks in good shape. Just fine in the manner the majority of anglers will use it. If i get a sec i will open all three for a pic.

This kind of explains the differences between the 720 & 722.

Best,

Fred

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 27, 2018, 03:12:12 AM
Just out of curiosity, have you compared this reel to the 430SS? The 430SS has better line capacity, better gears, lighter reel ,better spool and it looks better :)...just a thought. Oh, you could close the bail by hand.

Sal

I have not held a 430ss. I was looking for a very simple and easy to maintain reel for the surf, and as I have heard it the Z series was what you used in the surf and the SS series is what you used for everything else. I have heard the SS is less forgiving of sand than the Z series, and just doing a quick scan of the parts list I see it also has 10 more parts than the Z series, which to me just means more things that can break or that would need regularly maintenance.

I did not know that the Z series wouldn't allow for manual bail closure, and while it's not necessarily a deal breaker, I would have second guessed purchasing this reel had I known beforehand. All of this is moot though, as I have yet to fish this reel. It's possible I just wont like how it fishes, in which I will just resell it and start over looking for another reel that best suits my needs. How well this reel casts a 1/2 oz - 3/4 oz weight will depend on whether I decide to keep it or not.

Cheers.

will cast it just fine especially with braid.

Quote from: Jenx on February 27, 2018, 05:26:18 PM

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 27, 2018, 03:12:12 AM
Just out of curiosity, have you compared this reel to the 430SS? The 430SS has better line capacity, better gears, lighter reel ,better spool and it looks better :)...just a thought. Oh, you could close the bail by hand.

Sal

I have not held a 430ss. I was looking for a very simple and easy to maintain reel for the surf, and as I have heard it the Z series was what you used in the surf and the SS series is what you used for everything else. I have heard the SS is less forgiving of sand than the Z series, and just doing a quick scan of the parts list I see it also has 10 more parts than the Z series, which to me just means more things that can break or that would need regularly maintenance.

I did not know that the Z series wouldn't allow for manual bail closure, and while it's not necessarily a deal breaker, I would have second guessed purchasing this reel had I known beforehand. All of this is moot though, as I have yet to fish this reel. It's possible I just wont like how it fishes, in which I will just resell it and start over looking for another reel that best suits my needs. How well this reel casts a 1/2 oz - 3/4 oz weight will depend on whether I decide to keep it or not.

Cheers.

The 430SS is just as easy to service. I was not trying to change your mind, just giving my honest personal opinion. The 720 &  722 are great little reels, but to me when compared to the 420 & 430SS, they are much better reels.

This isn't fair to you though, you've asked if you could flick the bail by hand and how much drag.
You already know you can't close the bail by hand, on the drag, I would not go past 8lb at max.
I have one or two somewhere with shredded main gear.

Sal

My 722 has given very good service since I bought it in Banger ME in 1970 for $14.95 at Woolco. Only part that broke was the 43-720. Replaced it for the sum of $ .76. That being just fish your 720 and have fun.

Even though I've never owned a Penn spinning reel (but have been doing much looking lately), I agree with Sal and Mo65. Imho the 420 and 430ss are better reels than the 720 and 722.  So are the 714 and 716.  Why do I say this even though I haven't had any experience with them?  The main and pinion gear layouts are very similar to the D.A.M. Quicks and Shakespeare maroon series which I am familiar with.  

I'm sure your 720z will do fine.  Came awful close to buying a lot of half a dozen reels with a Penn 720z included, along with a Mitchell 308 and a few more but got outbidded a few weeks ago.

   I just want to add a tidbit concerning the bail on the 720z. I'm a manual bail guy too...and I had this big vision of the automatic bail driving me nuts...and it never happened! I adjusted to it in minutes. I've learned to like it. The 720z and 722z are a blast to fish. 8)

Sounds like I should have asked you guys first what reel to buy.

Thanks for the feedback.

I will keep an eye out for a 714, 716, or 430ss.

Cheers.

Quote from: Jenx on February 28, 2018, 01:14:08 AM
I will keep an eye out for a 414, 416, or 430ss.

That reel will do fine, Andy, don't worry — just keep it serviced and greased well with Penn Blue or Yamaha  Marine.  And remember, salt water is very intrusive and unforgiving if allowed to take hold.

When you are looking for reels, you won't find a 414 or 416 — it is a 714 & 716 you likely mean.

Best,

Fred

Quote from: foakes on February 28, 2018, 04:32:03 AM

Quote from: Jenx on February 28, 2018, 01:14:08 AM
I will keep an eye out for a 414, 416, or 430ss.

That reel will do fine, Andy, don't worry — just keep it serviced and greased well with Penn Blue or Yamaha  Marine.  And remember, salt water is very intrusive and unforgiving if allowed to take hold.

When you are looking for reels, you won't find a 414 or 416 — it is a 714 & 716 you likely mean.

Best,

Fred

Thank you, Fred. You are correct. I did mean to type 714 and 716.

I also want to thank you for the pictures you posted. Scott's lists the 720 being manufactured from the mid 1970's to 1997. Any idea what time frame the blue colored one was made? I'm assuming blue was the earlier model.

Cheers.

The blue metallic 720 started production in '68.

The light green metallic 722, in '69.

Best,

Fred

I believe the 720 sold for 5 or 6 dollars when interduced.

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 27, 2018, 03:40:08 PM
A new rotor and skirted spool on the larger Z's and you'll end up whith a heck of a reel.

On which Z models is that possible?

None of them, I was saying IF the Z's had the skirted spools. With a good machinist I don't see why it couldn't be done, but I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap. :-\

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 28, 2018, 11:00:57 PM
None of them, I was saying IF the Z's had the skirted spools. With a good machinist I don't see why it couldn't be done, but I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap. :-\

wouldn't a DAM 5000/5001 be way cheaper & a little better? this 4000 seems almost reasonable:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DAM-Quick-4000-Spinning-Reel-Good-Condition-Left-Hand-crank-on-right-side-BH/142691522947?hash=item213913d983:g:Tx4AAOSwFEpahflt (https://www.ebay.com/itm/DAM-Quick-4000-Spinning-Reel-Good-Condition-Left-Hand-crank-on-right-side-BH/142691522947?hash=item213913d983:g:Tx4AAOSwFEpahflt)

Got her out on the water today for the first time. I didn't catch anything, but she cast great and I had no problems with the braid.

(https://i.imgur.com/dU86D1f.jpg)

   Good show Jenx. 8)

Looks like  nice day for fishing, where is that?

Thanks.

That was Nicholson Point, in La Jolla.

The bite was slow, and the surf was full of salad, but the weather was nice, and I can think of many worse things than watching a beach sunset while fishing.

Jenx,

It's not a bent bail arm.  It's a worn or bent bail release arm (28) or a bail arm (34) that is worn down where it slams against the bail release arm.  That lets the bail arm travel a bit too far so the roller is no longer parallel to the spool. The other models (716 up to 700) have a bail arm bumper.  The bumper is then the first thing to be worn down.

Line rollers do not prevent twists.  The twists are inherent in the way line is wrapped around the spool on a spinning reel.  The line roller only spaces the twists out evenly and minimizes line abrasion.  The older and less expensive style without a line roller (only a bend in the bail wire) do not have more line twists than modern reels.
-steve

Just a quick update:

I took this reel out surf fishing five straight days. As posted above I was skunked the first trip, but over the next four days I spent about 12-13 total hours in the surf with 61 surf perch caught over that span. Most weren't very big, but I did catch one very fat and very pregnant perch measured at 14.25" long that made a couple drag peeling runs. I spent most of that time wading out in waist deep water, so the reel was regularly splashed, but I avoided getting it dunked. And aside from having to remove the bail arm to flush out some sand that got inside when I dropped the reel -- it was making a grinding noise when you flipped the bail -- the only other maintenance I performed was to spray down the body and the inside of the rotor cup with a spray bottle.

As mentioned before I had my concerns about the bail not being manual, so I often took a quick glance down at the reel while closing the bail, and a couple of times I witnessed the line hang loose and start to get tangled when the bail closed. After that I started to close the bail right as my line was hitting the water, kind of like thumbing a baitcaster, and that stopped it from trying to make wind knots. Once I got the hang of the casting I was pretty happy with the performance of the reel. Next question was how well it held up to all the exposure to saltwater...

So yesterday I received my aluminum crosswind block, which gave me an excuse to open the reel back up and see how well it held up, and I was pleasantly surprised to not find any salt or sand buildup anywhere. I did find some signs of water exposure inside the body on the shaft between the pinion gear and the crosswind block, as seen in the picture below. At least I assume that is why the grease is a different color in that spot. I assume that is probably from me spraying the inside of the rotor cup after every use, but now I know it is an area to keep an eye on.

Overall I was very happy with the performance and ease of maintenance of this reel, and I plan on continuing to use her as my main surf reel. I even spotted a couple of nice size corbina, and  some sand crab beds already this early in the season, so hopefully before long I will get a chance to try this reel out on some bigger fish.

(https://i.imgur.com/G5wPy5D.jpg)

Quote from: Jenx on March 09, 2018, 07:54:34 PM
As mentioned before I had my concerns about the bail not being manual, so I often took a quick glance down at the reel while closing the bail, and a couple of times I witnessed the line hang loose and start to get tangled when the bail closed. After that I started to close the bail right as my line was hitting the water, kind of like thumbing a baitcaster, and that stopped it from trying to make wind knots.

   That is exactly how I my 720...it works very well!