Replaced the felt washers on both of my Pflueger President 6930 spinning reels with Carbontex. Smoothdrag.com did not have something specifically for my reels but after taking a caliper to the old washers they found something that matched up, which was nice. After lightly greasing the carbon washers with some Cal's and installing them they have been rather jerky. Not smooth at all. My drag was nice and smooth previously with oiled felt washers. I've had them in since July of last year and thought maybe they just needed a little break in time. But no luck, still jerky when engaged. My setup is on a 6'6" M/L power and fast action rod with 6# Yo-Zuri Hybrid line. I set my drag to around 2# using a digital scale. I'm thinking one of two things. I either need to check out the metal washers in my reel to see if they need polished up, or maybe my setup is too light to benefit from carbon washers and I should just go back to the felt? What are your guy's thoughts?
If oil gets on the CF drag it will get jerky. It's possible that some oil left over from the felt washers contaminated the stack. Also, any oil that's on the shaft can get on them too. You'll probably need to clean the CF disks in solvent and re-apply the Cal's once they're dry and clean. Also, the shaft should be wiped clean around where it touches the spool, and lubed with Cal's. Not the whole shaft, just in that area.
I've converted older Pflueger spinner drags to CF and it works great.
for such light applications, I'd go w/ fresh(!!!) felt for quicker, smoother start-up
(also, more precise at low settings w/ calibrated knob, IMO)
others prefer CF for longevity, durability, easier care
ideally, I'd have 2 spools -- 1 CF upgrade + 1 w/ spare felt
Thanks for the responses!!
Nelz - I'll give that a try. Do you like the carbon washers in the Pfluegers greased or dry? What is the best method of cleaning the carbon drag washers? I have brake cleaner handy, but can pick up some mineral spirits or acetone if something like that would work better.
Philaroman - Yeah, I've been doing some reading and for lighter applications felt does seem to be sufficient or even preferred. I'm chasing river smallmouth. So we're talking 1# to 2# fish for the most part. But we do get some that are 18-20" and 4#, and they sure can fight!! Also we hook into the occasional Flathead and rarely a muskie. So definitely need a good drag system when one of those is on the end of the line.
Quote from: BigTerp on May 13, 2019, 10:16:22 PMNelz - I'll give that a try. Do you like the carbon washers in the Pfluegers greased or dry? What is the best method of cleaning the carbon drag washers? I have brake cleaner handy, but can pick up some mineral spirits or acetone if something like that would work better.
I've used mineral spirits to clean them, but acetone should be ok too. Dry works well but I use greased since I fish salt water, it prevents corrosion of the metals.
I upgraded a larger Pflueger Supreme to greased CF for use on snook. These fish put up quite a tough fight, especially in the current of the inlet where I fished for them. A heavier yet still smooth drag was called for and the greased CF worked great. But I have to agree with Philaroman about using felt for lighter drag applications. Cf is great too, but really not needed for lighter drags.
there should be a drag washer under the spool as well. did you take a look at that one?
I'd put tape on the spool to cover the line, then crank on a few yards of heavy line, tighten the drag and pull off line against the drag. Repeat a few times. It will mash down the drag washers and get them to polish themselves a bit to remove the rough spots. When you back off on the drag it should be smoother than before.
-steve
that's a really good point
felt is compressible -- it pretty much seats itself w/ no extra attention after replacement
CF is hard/dense -- might need some quick breaking in at higher settings, before everything is seated & surfaces are "married"
Quote from: nelz on May 14, 2019, 04:28:07 AM
I've used mineral spirits to clean them, but acetone should be ok too. Dry works well but I use greased since I fish salt water, it prevents corrosion of the metals.
I upgraded a larger Pflueger Supreme to greased CF for use on snook. These fish put up quite a tough fight, especially in the current of the inlet where I fished for them. A heavier yet still smooth drag was called for and the greased CF worked great. But I have to agree with Philaroman about using felt for lighter drag applications. Cf is great too, but really not needed for lighter drags.
Makes sense. Thanks.
Quote from: alantani on May 14, 2019, 05:15:18 AM
there should be a drag washer under the spool as well. did you take a look at that one?
The washers under the spools are in good shape. However, they were not replaced with Carbontex. Just the 3 in the stack were replaced.
Quote from: oc1 on May 14, 2019, 05:36:58 AM
I'd put tape on the spool to cover the line, then crank on a few yards of heavy line, tighten the drag and pull off line against the drag. Repeat a few times. It will mash down the drag washers and get them to polish themselves a bit to remove the rough spots. When you back off on the drag it should be smoother than before.
-steve
Good idea. Thanks.
Thanks again for all the replies. Much appreciated. I think I'm just going to go back to the stock felt washers. They worked fine before. I just thought switching to carbon washers would make things that much nicer. With my fairly light setup it seems to be working against me though.
With that said, how often are you guys replacing the felt drag washers (if any of you even use them :D)
For spinning reels with felt wahers I used to replace them every season. They were mainly used on carp, pike and catfish. Since joining this forum I swapped all of them for greased cf. I have never replaced cf washers. For very light applications, like fly reels, I simply bed the greased cf washers in by tightening the drag then rotating the spool by hand a few times - then back the drag off. I have fished with drags as light as 6ish oz for 1.5 - 2 lb tippets, I have never encountered any 'snatching' - the grease is a very important factor (Teflon based).
How much drag are you needing? 2 lb? as Phil put it, the felt drags would have been fine for your needs.
I like small reels (size 10,20s) I fish for salmon (30 lbers) with these. Before I found this site and cf drags, I would have to replace my reels after a couple of years cuz the felt would dry and I would get jerky drags.
Reapply cals, check bottom of spool too and drag in down and work it the spool by hand and then back if off and check again with line.
I have replaced some of my smaller reels with cf drags and the drag is smooth and consistent, I don't wipe off extra cals from the cf drags, as the gods here told me that extra cals will squeeze out.
update us with what you find :-)
Quote from: BigTerp on May 14, 2019, 01:01:57 PM
Quote from: alantani on May 14, 2019, 05:15:18 AM
there should be a drag washer under the spool as well. did you take a look at that one?
The washers under the spools are in good shape. However, they were not replaced with Carbontex. Just the 3 in the stack were replaced.
It's possible that the washer under the main gear could be the problem.
It's a spinning reel boss. ;D
I'll give the suggestions a try of cleaning the washers/shaft, reapplying Cal's and then cranking down on my drag and engaging it by hand a few times to try and seat/polish the washers and hopefully get it running smooth. I don't necessarily mind going back to felt if that's what ends up working best for my setup, but would prefer the longevity of the carbon washers vs replacing felt washers every so often.
Alan - Unless the washer under the spool doesn't work well with the main washers being carbontex and not felt, I don't think that's the issue. They looked fine when I swapped the main drag washers out. Also one of my reels is just over a year old, the other is several years old. Both act the same with the carbontex washers. If the washer under the spool was the issue, I would think the older reel would show the signs of that versus the newer reel. You are talking about the #8 in the schematic linked below, correct? Should I have replaced that one with a carbontex as well? https://www.ereplacementparts.com/pflueger-6930-president-spinning-reel-parts-c-186372_186375_187193.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwzunmBRDsARIsAGrt4mslrzvrfqEekK6u7uAXTsq_1HEiM2B-kuisMmv0Vhp2e00TLg7HlyQaAtfqEALw_wcB
yeah, the schematic helps. sometimes you have really big drag washers under the spools of some of these newer spinners.
any chance that the drag smooths out a little under a heavier load?
Quote from: alantani on May 14, 2019, 05:38:22 PM
any chance that the drag smooths out a little under a heavier load?
Good question, and something I planned to test myself. If it does, I'm hoping the suggestions of working the drag under a heavy load will smooth it out once dialed back down to my normal drag setting. I honestly have not had the drag set over about 2# (set on a digital scale before each outing) probably ever. I use 6# Yo-Zuri Hybrid exclusively on these reels and always set my drag to 1/3 of the rated breaking strength of the line. Hence the 2# setting. I also loosen the drags a good bit after each outing for storage.
For two pounds of drag you could also use Delrin/acetal or Teflon/PTFE drag washers.
-steve
if the weave of the carbon fiber is slightly uneven, then increased pressure can smooth it out. i've seen lever drag reels that are a little jumpy under a light load, only to smooth out when the drag pressure is up to normal.
Tried a few things to smooth out my drag with carbon washers. Cleaned and re greased the washers with Cal's. Then I cranked down my drag to it's max and manually worked it many, many times. Things did smooth out a bit, but once dialed back in to my standard 2# setting it still wasn't as smooth as I'd like. Still some catching/jerkiness as the drag worked that I felt was to much and could potentially cause problems if (when!!) I hooked into a nice one. Took out the carbon, cleaned, re oiled and then reinserted my oiled felt and things were back to nice and smooth!! I have no doubt that carbontex is a nice upgrade for most reels. I actually have sets for my Abu Ambassadeur round reels that I use for catfishing. Just need to take the time to get them installed. But for my river smallmouth setup, felt seems to be the better way to go. Thanks again for all the help and suggestions, much appreciated!!!
just get a spare spool for CF & 5-10# drag w/ 15-30# braid & keep fresh new felt for the 6# mono spool... best of all worlds
Quote from: philaroman on May 17, 2019, 10:13:56 PM
just get a spare spool for CF & 5-10# drag w/ 15-30# braid & keep fresh new felt for the 6# mono spool... best of all worlds
Some quick maths says you might get 50 yards of 30# on it :/ Tiny reel, made for light weight applications only.
This may be an obvious thing but is your line cutting in on itself or not laying properly. Under a light drag the line pulling out from where it is binding could give you that feeling. Kinda like when you let line out on a reel where the line guide does not move and line up with it coming off the spool.
Yes the line should be fead on tight, I would use a delrin greased under the pool, I have never had trouble with greased ( Cal`s ) carbon fibre washers not being smooth, maybe your metal drag washers are out of order, or a little rough, good luck cheers Don.