Hey guys,
New to the board but been using this site to work on reels. GREAT tutorials and information. However, I just ran into a small issue and have no idea what this is about. I adjusted the right side of my reel to get more leverage and easier access to my freespool switch. Several of anglers that I know said it's better this way. However, when I reel hard and stop the handle, it makes a clicking noise. I've even switched it back to stock. I have no idea how to stop this and been tearing my reel apart but no results. here's a vid of it.
Aloha! LBCtermite, welcome.
What did you do to modify your reel to try to get more leverage and easier access to your free spool switch?
From the video, it's hard to tell what side the noise is coming from, but it doesn't sound good.
Can you tell if the clicking is coming from the right or left side plate??
Assuming that all parts were re-installed:
If the clicking noise is coming from the right side plate, I would check the assembly of the anti-reverse ratchet & dogs.
If the clicking noise is coming from the left side plate, then I would check the clicker assembly.
Something is definitely not right there. I think your problem is under the left side plate. You have some clicker issues it sounds like to me. Something has come loose or bent.
Here is Alan's tutorial on it, but I think your problem is beneath that left plate.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14.0
the drag is loose and the clicker is engaged??????
all i did was move the right side towards me. the screws and holes line up. no other modifications. the dogs are good to go, clicker is fine. it feels and sounds like its coming from the pinion gear (key #13) and sub shaft (key #13a) when connected with right spool bearing (key #55a) but can't figure out why. drags were tight and clicker off too.
You got me. If it were mine, I would do a complete teardown until I figured it out.
I'm guessing you rotated the plate and it had had a detrimental effect on something for it to make that grinding noise. ::)
for some reason i can't open the file. but if i understand correctly, the reel DOES function normally, right? so you crank hard with a full spool of line, but no tension against the line. the spool gets moving in retrieve and then you abruptly stop the handle and the spool keeps on spinning in the retrieve direction.
if this is correct, then i think this is normal. ambassaduers do the same thing.
I couldn't open the video at work, but it works at the house. He is cranking it fast from a dead stop and it makes a grinding noise like the clicker is on. It doesn't sound good. He says it is not the clicker assembly, so there has to me some metal shavings somewhere.
it's the shoulders of the spool shaft banging against the pinion gear. check some of your own reels. i bet they will do the same thing.
Shimanos do it too.
Huh, Another lesson learned! ;D
that does not sound right. My baja does not make any of those noise...
Well he is doing better with me. I tore apart a perfectly funtioning Baja Special to for regular lube and maintenance. I just cannot get the drags in this one to stay in place long enough to get the reel back together. Leaving for Baja soon, so maybe the warmer weather will help me get it together. ;)
TomT
Tom,
I am confused. The drag is very easy to service. The dogs on the other hand are a bit fussier. Make sure you have the gear seated completely onto the bottom of the sleeve and the sleeve bearing is flush into the gear. I was able to add additional drag to the baja without any issue. Took it up to more than 30 lbs of drag easily..
That is how I tell if a reel is worn or not, I couldn't listen at work. If it spool shaft shoulder doesn't skip a time or ten then the reel has wore in a bit.
Ron
Tom,
I am confused. The drag is very easy to service. The dogs on the other hand are a bit fussier. Make sure you have the gear seated completely onto the bottom of the sleeve and the sleeve bearing is flush into the gear. I was able to add additional drag to the baja without any issue. Took it up to more than 30 lbs of drag easily..
You are only confused because I said it wrong. I am having trouble with getting the "dogs" to stay in place--probably the vodka or the zin-- ;)
TomT
Well, I took it to The store for them to figure it out. Initially, they said the dogs are worn but they seemed fine to me. I'll get it back after I come back from whistler next week. We'll see what they have to say. I'll let you guys know.
Also, I can't wait to use my new setup of a custom btg90j and cedros csd12. Seems and sounds like an awesome setup for tossing the plug.
Aren't those stainless dogs? It would take a lot to wear out TWO stainless dogs.
Ron
LB.
Did you completely dismantles the reel or merely removing the 4 screws and reorient the reel? if you took apart the reel pay special attention to the orientation of the dogs.
Quote from: maxpowers on February 13, 2014, 05:30:53 PM
LB.
Did you completely dismantles the reel or merely removing the 4 screws and reorient the reel? if you took apart the reel pay special attention to the orientation of the dogs.
Also make sure that you have the anti reverse ratchet in the right direction. It fits both ways and is easy to not really notice you put it in upside down. If you put it in upside down the teeth will be going the opposite direction
Quote from: Lbctermite on February 13, 2014, 08:13:29 AM
Well, I took it to The store for them to figure it out. Initially, they said the dogs are worn but they seemed fine to me. I'll get it back after I come back from whistler next week. We'll see what they have to say. I'll let you guys know.
Please keep us posted.
So I just returned from my trip and got a voicemail from my tackle shop. They said that everything was good to go and that the clicking was normal. They even opened up new boxes of Baja specials and tried it out with the same results. This boggles my mind as to why it would occur. If anyone has a Baka special with the metal star drag, please see if you get the same thing that I'm talking about. I'll be going to the store tomorrow to see for myself also.
The method or issue is when you crank the handle in gear fast, stop the handle and see if the spool spins just a little bit with clicking noises. Please advise!!
Thank you
It is true to what they said. Tried out the brand new Baja Specials and it does the same. The reel performs perfectly besides that little annoyance. Anyone that has a baja special have the same thing too? Just need to confirm so that I can feel comfy. If anything, I got a free service out of it. ;D
it's just the way the shoulders on the spool shaft are cut. the ambassaduers do the same thing. i'll bet many other reels will, as well.
Quote from: Lbctermite on February 20, 2014, 02:16:13 AM
It is true to what they said. Tried out the brand new Baja Specials and it does the same. The reel performs perfectly besides that little annoyance. Anyone that has a baja special have the same thing too? Just need to confirm so that I can feel comfy.
I never noticed it before, but my 113HN does it too!
Mine doesn't do it. Weird. Does this mean mines broken lol
i just watched the video again and i did not realized that the spool continued to spin after the handle stop. the spool on mine stop spinning one i stop turning. i don't remember any of my reel continued to spin once i stop turning.
Quote from: alantani on February 12, 2014, 10:22:46 PM
for some reason i can't open the file. but if i understand correctly, the reel DOES function normally, right? so you crank hard with a full spool of line, but no tension against the line. the spool gets moving in retrieve and then you abruptly stop the handle and the spool keeps on spinning in the retrieve direction.
if this is correct, then i think this is normal. ambassaduers do the same thing.
Alan,
If I am reading this correctly you are saying that put the reel in gear but have almost zero drag tension and turn the handle hard. The spool should continue to spin afterward?
Thanks,
this happens only with an empty spool, or one where the line is just cut and is flopping around. you crank the handle to get the spool turning in the retrieve direction, then stop handle abruptly and the spool keeps on turning. the momentum keeps the spool turning and the shoulders of the spool shaft bang against the pinion gear. it's normal if the shoulders of the spool shaft are bevelled. the same thing happens with a spool shaft that has a cross pin if the pinion gear is bevelled.
Quote from: alantani on February 20, 2014, 06:49:56 PM
this happens only with an empty spool, or one where the line is just cut and is flopping around. you crank the handle to get the spool turning in the retrieve direction, then stop handle abruptly and the spool keeps on turning. the momentum keeps the spool turning and the shoulders of the spool shaft bang against the pinion gear. it's normal if the shoulders of the spool shaft are bevelled. the same thing happens with a spool shaft that has a cross pin if the pinion gear is bevelled.
Alan,
I have the baja special with a full spool and the line is taped down so there is no line tension. However I have gears engaged and the drag set at about 10 lbs or so and when I stop cranking the spool stopped moving. I have not test it with almost zero drag.
in order for the spool to keep moving with the drag set high and the handle abrupty stopped, the shoulders of the spool shaft or the pinion gear have to bevelled. if yours is not, then then spool will stop when the handle stops.
Quote from: alantani on February 20, 2014, 07:04:14 PM
in order for the spool to keep moving with the drag set high and the handle abrupty stopped, the shoulders of the spool shaft or the pinion gear have to bevelled. if yours is not, then then spool will stop when the handle stops.
Thanks Alan... I took my Baja Special apart just to figure it out. I should have waited.
I learned something new again. :)
On a related note...I've often noticed deep marring/wear on the ramp and/or shoulders that engage the pinion on the spool of heavily used senators. I'm assuming this results from rapidly engaging the pinion, when the spool is spinning fast, and reel is put 'under pressure' (drag settings are high). I was taught to try to avoid this when fishing. But my question is, short of replacing the expensive spool, is it safe or a good idea to try to smooth out any noticeable ridges on the ramps with a grinding wheel or something, or is it best to leave well enough alone? Is there an easy way to test this...like maybe checking how smoothly the pinion or reel engages or releases, when the spool is: a)stationary and under pressure, b)moving and under pressure, c)moving freely and engaged under no pressure, and d)engaging the reel when the spool is spinning, and immediately comes under pressure...to check for smooth transition, complete engagement/disengamemt etc... I actually rarely notice any roughness or hesitation here, even in heavily used reels with excessive damage to this area. Just wondering if I'm overlooking something here when do my final reel testing/adjustments...before sending it back into service. Maybe I'm over thinking this one.
Thoughts would be welcomed.
John
I've touched the shoulders up with a file before. You had best be pretty hot with a grinder to do this and not take off to much. I only ever messed with it if their was a lot of chatter or on one reel that refused to go into gear.
Ron
I've fished with senators that are older than me and have never tried to reel any of my reels that fast without having something on the other end.
Once you throw the lever forward and all is engaged, The only thing still spinning will be the drags. ;)
Should you engage the reel if the spool is spinning? I never leave my reels in freespool while fishing, always engage them and just back off the drag, surely you smash the pinion into the drive gear if you do that or am I missing something here?
Quote from: Shark Hunter on February 21, 2014, 08:14:17 AM
I've fished with senators that are older than me and have never tried to reel any of my reels that fast without having something on the other end.
Maybe that's why I never noticed my Baja Special doing it before
Quote from: CapeFish on February 21, 2014, 10:04:28 AM
Should you engage the reel if the spool is spinning? I never leave my reels in freespool while fishing, always engage them and just back off the drag, surely you smash the pinion into the drive gear if you do that or am I missing something here?
I leave my reels in free-spool when fly-lining a live bait.
Quote from: CapeFish on February 21, 2014, 10:04:28 AM
Should you engage the reel if the spool is spinning? I never leave my reels in freespool while fishing, always engage them and just back off the drag, surely you smash the pinion into the drive gear if you do that or am I missing something here?
I usually fish like you, and leave the drag backed off, but if I get a fish that thinks he's sneaky, One that likes to swim toward the shore and keep creating slack in the line. I'll take the slack out and put it in freespool. I am usually strapped in while doing this, because he is going to take off real fast and hook himself or go into a slow roll.
glad to have find this thread, I just serviced a Baja Special that does the same weird thing of the loud clicking noise when you suddenly (abruptly) stop the handle after turning it fast and strong.
uff thanks Alan
are you not ruining the reel slamming it into gear when a fish is taking line at a rate of knots? I always leave my reels in gear on a low drag setting and simply tighten up the drag as the fish runs, it also prevents getting overwinds when a fish takes.
I do this all the time with no damage to the reel.
Just to clarify, I'm not fishing a Baja, I'm fishing with a Big Senator, a 12/0. The gears on these old work horses are tough and can take it. Yes, I'm slamming the pinion into the main, but they are steel and drag will be slipping immediately on hook up. Then I tighten it down.
I usually leave my reels on freespool with the clicker on. this prevents backlashes and my reel from getting pulled into the ocean.
Right on Daron. I do the same live lining. When the fish takes off you let it run before you set the hook. Some fish we wait as long as twenty seconds before setting the hook. Lots of variables in fishing. Dominick
Just to clarify how/when the reel may be slammed into gear under load from freespool. Typically when trolling, I let out line in freespool with the clicker on to prevent backlash, or having to 'baby sit' the spool. I slow the spool down and stop it with my thumb, check the bait, and when satisfied, put the reel in gear. The drag is always preset to the desired strike setting (in order to ensure the best hook set), and I mark one prong of the star by putting a piece of clear rubber tubing on it so that when it lines up with tue handle I am at a premeasured maximum desired drag setting.
Now sometimes a fish grabs the bait as it is being set, and the immediate course of action is to slam the reel into gear.
Likewise, if a fish hits a bait, but is not hooked up, I immediately throw that reel into freespool for a few seconds before reengaging the gear set. This trick often elicites a strike which may cone while the reel is in freespool.
Another example is when trolling live bait, I often leave the resl in freespool with the clicker on, and the line clipped to a downrigger clip, or a flatline clip preset at a few pounds before release. This allows the fish to hit the live bait, and in the case of marlin, flip it around, swallow it, and hopefully turn, before I slam the reel into gear. Alternatively, you can pull off a preset amount of line, and leave the reel in gear.
I actually like the ability to quickly transition from freespool, to a preset strike and back again on the Senators when trolling, live baiting, or chunking.
Lever drags allow you to run real low drag and precise drag when live baiting, and still allow moving into and out of freespool, but it takes just a bit longer, and typically lacks that crisp and sudden transition.
The other nice thing about the Senators is they are lighter weight and can be easily and quickly pulled from the rod holder and fished from hand during the drop back, or when chunking or still fishing live bait.
On the other hand, lever drag reels typically produce smoother, more controllable drag, they are stronger, and they don't suffer the detrimental effects of heat as quickly, or severly as star drag reels. Also, I havn't seen a 2 speed star drag reel yet.
John,
I don't know if you fish a Big Senator, but when you can, get your hands on some of Adam's versa Drag Inserts. They make a Senator smoother than it was ever meant to be. Twice the lock down power, but so smooth at the reels original max drag. The best invention yet to a Big Senator other than Tom's ss sleeves. Truly remarkable.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on June 23, 2015, 05:54:48 AM
John,
I don't know if you fish a Big Senator, but when you can, get your hands on some of Adam's versa Drag Inserts. They make a Senator smoother than it was ever meant to be. Twice the lock down power, but so smooth at the reels original max drag. The best invention yet to a Big Senator other than Tom's ss sleeves. Truly remarkable.
Daron,
I grew up fishing big senators, and small Internationals, a few TLDs, and large Penn SS spinners for most of my offshore fishing.
Got my sleeves today, and am patiently awaiting Adam's big boy inserts. I intend to make myself a set of reels to fish. They hold a special place in my heart, and are a comfortable tool in my hand. This is despite the fact that I am definately an old school International guy.
When fishing lighter line I like smaller internationals, for trolling heavy gear and fighting from the holder or fighting chair I like the Tiagra 130s, or Penn 130s, 80STWs. I also like the idea of catching a 200lb+ Yellowfin on a small 2 speed loaded with braid, on standup from a fast center counsel. But for general offshore fishing including chunking, live baiting, and trolling when I intend to catch the fish on standup, there is something about fishing those big senators that appeals to me. They are good reels, and these upgrades will make them much more capable. Alzo, even with the upgrades buying a 5 or 7 rig setup is much easier on the pocketbook then those shinny gold colored reels.
Quote from: steelfish on June 22, 2015, 08:02:56 AM
glad to have find this thread, I just serviced a Baja Special that does the same weird thing of the loud clicking noise when you suddenly (abruptly) stop the handle after turning it fast and strong.
uff thanks Alan
on my case I foud the culprit of my problem
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=15217.msg157484#msg157484
If problem found can it still be considered normal in other cases? I have 2 new US Senator 113N that make this noise but have never had problem fishing them.
It's been awhile but I am revisiting this topic because I just worked on my US Senators (added Cortex Conversion bridge upgrade) and my reels are now in perfect condition but I would like to update the issue with the continued motion and noise when cranking the reel quickly and stopping suddenly. I do believe it is as Alan Tani said "it's the shoulders of the spool shaft banging against the pinion gear" and I do believe it can be normal. My warning is to not do it repeatedly as it will tear up the shoulder of the spool shaft. I ruined the tiny bearing (#55) trying to get it out of there because of the damage to the shoulders on the spool shaft. I was able to use fine grit sand paper and smooth it out and eventually get new bearing in.