Wayne asked me a few days ago -- about a new line of hand tools being promoted by Harbor Freight that were claimed to be as good as the highest quality competition.
Wayne's Dad had always bought the best tools he could afford, being a professional tradesman -- and relied on the old Craftsmans, Kleins, etc..
The advertisement was very interesting and also well done.
Plus I have no doubts that the product (Hand Pliers) was a solid tool.
Then I got to thinking about a couple of instances over last weekend -- needed to go through the little boat -- getting it ready for some fishing trips. Needed to use the drill press to fabricate a bracket -- it didn't work -- worked a couple of weeks ago. Did a quick troubleshoot -- realized that a mouse had stored a dozen acorns in the head, up near the switch -- and in the process had gnawed through a few wires.
Pulled out the electrical tool box I use for quick little jobs. Snip, strip, splice, and rewire -- works perfectly.
The two main tools I used were a little pair of very old Snap-On Dyke/Strippers, and a very old M. Klein & Sons pair of linesman pliers. Don't know where these ever came from -- yard sales mostly. Just a couple of bucks each probably.
We all have these old tools laying around -- and it is easy to take them for granted.
But, here is the point -- after 70 or 80 years -- the cutters and linesman pliers worked flawlessly, no slop in the hinges, felt good in my hands, stripped back (2) gauges of wire quickly and efficiently -- job done.
Then I needed to rewire some connections on the camper furnace. Pulled out the furnace, did a troubleshoot -- again used the same pairs of dykes and pliers -- job done.
Rewired the lights on the boat -- new switches, wire, and connectors -- job done.
These (2) old pairs of pliers and dykes showed considerable usage, patina, and lots of nicks and drops over the years.
Compared to the new imports that lose their cutting edge or become loosey-goosey after a year or two -- these just did their job.
These were manufactured in the days when American companies took enough pride in their products to put their names on the tools.
Excellent materials, engineering, and carefully manufactured.
These quality types of old tools takes more than a great advertisement to prove their worth -- their worth is proven over a couple of generations of constant usage.
Best,
Fred
My Dad always told me that when it comes to tools....buy the best, and only cry once ! I've always made my living with tools, and I understand what Dad was talking about ! If you intend on USING the tool often, have to RELY on the tool , or intend on only ever buying that tool once....buy the best you can afford! And, yes, sometimes the price might make you "tear up", a bit, but, if it breaks before the job is done, damages the item you are working on, causes you to hurt yourself..or someone else, or fails when you need it most.....will you STILL be glad you saved a couple bucks ?
Where have you guys been. Look at the price of old used, tarnished and dinged hand tools on eBay, especially if they are a known brand like Klein, Snap-On or Craftsman. You are going to pay more for the old tool than you would for a new tool from Harbor Freight or Ace Hardware.
-steve
At our lake place the original 1972 AC unit is still pumping away. We have to replace a relay about every 18 months, and the old boy what always comes serviced it for my grandfather, whom he knew well. We toyed with getting a heat pump but this thing will not die, and you can positively hang sausage in the place in summer. It was built to cool, and cool well for a long time...no Sere this, that, or the other...just do it. My grandfather had two fridges, two stove tops, and two washer drier sets in the 43 years we shared and some of those were rocking before i was born. good luck with that now.
And, he built houses with my uncle and GGF early on, from which I still have a lot of 100 yo tools....they will go another 100. Later, he was a TV repairman, when you could still repair one....
I like shoppin hard for stuff I like, if I can hold it in my hands before I buy. Really gotta know the stuff I buy online before I bite. However, I don't like hands on tool shoppin anymore. Recently my hacksaw options were so limited, I setteled for crap. Not poorly designed, just not old school construction quality and the blades will probably break or get dull before they really should. I really treasure the few tools I inherited from my Dad and Grandfather.
Quote from: oc1 on June 04, 2020, 07:03:10 PM
Where have you guys been. Look at the price of old used, tarnished and dinged hand tools on eBay, especially if they are a known brand like Klein, Snap-On or Craftsman. You are going to pay more for the old tool than you would for a new tool from Harbor Freight or Ace Hardware.
-steve
IMO, in many cases, it is still money well spent if you plan on using it a lot or hard. While they may still have lifetime warranties many of those well respected names' new products are not near the quality of their old stuff. Screwing around trying to trade in a warrantied item still takes time and is inconvenient, plus in a couple of instances I've had with SK & Snap-On, the time spent arguing about use & warranty wasn't worth the frustration. I generally buy the high quality older stuff at yard sale, flea markets or pawn shops. I love buying old Snap-On sockets, wrenches, etc. for $1 or 2 each at the PS. ;D
I like the old Craftsman hand tools. Most of my wrenches/sockets/screwdrivers/pliers/etc are Craftsman. These days they aren't as good as the old days so I just buy Husky wrenches and sockets where I get lifetime replacement. I'll buy once, cry once if it's something I figure I'll use often... like my Makita 18v brushless tools. I'll buy Harbor Freight if I just need something for a one-off job. It it turns out I use it more frequently and it gives me grief I'll buy a better replacement from somewhere else. I have sledgehammers, breaker bars, etc from HF that will probably last forever even if I use them often. You can't beat the HF floor jacks!
When it comes to hand tools like pliers and cutters there is only one modern company that I buy - Knipex - they have never failed me. Wire strippers - Jokari self adjusting type. I believe Jokari is the company that makes the Knipex branded version of the same. For obscure sizes of cable I also have a pair of 60s wire strippers (still going strong) supplied by the company I worked for at the time.
I used to be a Craftsman fan, initially because my brother worked as Sears and told me about the no question guarantee. But a few decades ago after a change in mangement, they began to question tool failures and reluctant to replace the tool. Now like as others have mentioned, I go to garage sales to look for the older well made tools. The only "new" tools that I like better than the old tools are titanium fishing tools for saltwater use.
Purchased a W Rose brick trowel in 1975,
it wasn't cheap, but most masons recommended it to me.
I still have that trowel today, it is almost reduced to half size, but always been one of my favorite tool.
Sal
Quality vs. the mere appearance of quality will always be an issue, especially for those who won't take the time or make the effort to look a little deeper.
One of my first experiences in this regard was after I got my first car in the '60s and wanted some tools to work on it. First acquisition was an open-end wrench set. Had a choice between good looking chrome-plated whatever brand and a well-known brand at about 50% more in price. The chrome looked good, so that's what I got; learned later about why something looking good might not be something actually being good.
Vehicles have gotten to the point where the manufacturers only want to catch your eye. So, we get plastic "chrome-look" grills, plastic trim, plastic bumper covers, plastic, plastic, plastic, even on so called "tough" trucks. After awhile, some of that plastic is gonna crack, break, have the finish rub off or otherwise go to garbage. Then, you get to buy a new grill for several hundred dollars that probably cost less than $10 to make.
Fishing gear, especially reels, have fallen into the trap too; lots of bright colored or chrome-looking plastic, decals touting large numbers of ball bearings, retrieve ratios of two or three times what a typical reel of the '60s or '70s might have, and all kinds of other stuff that really adds little to utility or longevity.
All we can do is try and be knowledgeable, and engage with companies that have long-standing good track records. Or, like many posting here have said, look for for good, old, used, and be willing to be a codger that isn't tempted by bright, shiny "new" stuff.
Frank
A little mixture of old and new,,,,,, ;) a 1955 emblem on a new snap on box,,, :D but for the price I got channel lock sockets and and 70's and 80's craftsman,,,for big stuff 50'and60's bonney and sk,,,,, :) interior work new ginger scissors and hog pin tool,,,,it's hard to find good quality tools with out paying a arm and a leg,,,,, >:( and sometimes you need a special socket like for seat belts I just go to haroble fake and get a set for $8 it's like a one time deal,,,,,,, ;D
And after reading this I just got a blue point thermometer,,,, :D to replace the one that was stolen from me,,,, >:( that's another problem with high end tools,,, ??? Thieves,,,,,, ;D
Good 🧰 tools not only are a heirloom pass down, butt give a worker pride in ownership and confidence in tackling a job. This can build with time. A positive attitude and pleasant experience cannot be taken away by paying for the best.
I've got a pair of simple craftsman pliers I've been using for way over fifty years. My go to tool.
Also and on the good tool topic, I was gifted another pair of pliers shown here that are from Wayne, mr peskadore here after a fishing trip. These are very good quality as well . The plastic grips are nice as it's usually cold in the shop. The patina is from a little sun and salt. I hope that they float?
Ok name the tool use,,,, :D I got two,,,,, ;D
My guess:
first one - a press for stamping numbers or letters into metal. Just like the Dymo label maker I had as a kid.
second one - 1/2 x 9/16 inch offset wrench so you can work on something that is around a corner.
What do we win? Ted was giving away neat reels and stuff like that.
-steve
The *Williams wrench , is an "S" pattern , which did make it easier to work around obstructions. Even enlarging the pic, I can't make out all the markings, but a lot of those were made, by *Williams, for various car, farm implement, and machinery manufacturers, to be part of the supplied "tool kits". Most were marked, as to 'size", but, the size wasn't "across the flats" as is done now, but the size of the "shank" of the bolt. So, a wrench marked "1/2" , was for a 1/2 inch bolt, which had a 3/4" spacing, "across the flats". I've never seen (that I can remember) a metal stamp like that one....all I've seen were "individual" punches
The first one,,,, :) I think was for a moldel A ford and the second one was for the vin numbers on old grumman fire trucks,,,, :D I hope someone else can post some cool tools,,,,,,, 8)
I'm with Benni - I seem to recall having a wrench like that (or similar) in a packet of Model A tools that I acquired. But I also have to think an "S" type wrench is actually probably not uncommon. I've seen my Dad torch wrenches to make a custom tool... - john
Quote from: Brewcrafter on June 24, 2020, 12:42:54 AM
I'm with Benni - I seem to recall having a wrench like that (or similar) in a packet of Model A tools that I acquired. But I also have to think an "S" type wrench is actually probably not uncommon. I've seen my Dad torch wrenches to make a custom tool... - john
Yes sir,,,,, and the only way I know that is a 80year old mechanic show me one and told me what it's for,,,,, ;) but this thing I found on the side of the rod,,,,, ??? 18wheelers or fire trucks I can't remember,,,,, :-[ so if anybody knows,,,,,,, ;D