Suppose I was cutting my own brass anti reverse ratchet. Would it be wise/beneficial/pick an adjective to electro plate it with nickel? I've done it at home it's not that difficult. Kinda cool actually.
Why or why not?
Making them out is stainless steel would be better.
Quote from: Keta on September 16, 2020, 01:10:48 AM
Making them out is stainless steel would be better.
That option is on the table too. Since nobody is currently selling what i need on the forum or elsewhere and I'm running into minimum order hurdles trying to get it water jet cut, I'm seriously ready to make my own out of a washer.
Feel like doing another small batch run of 8500SS ratchets?
It wouldn't hurt to try it, Nickel plate looks good and helps with corrosion resistance - it might wear away on the contact areas of the teeth after a while depending on how thick the plate is.
Is your electrolyte bath a caswell type secret blend or do you mix your own? I've used a 100 gms/litre nickel acetate bath to plate some steel bench dogs and small parts to stop them rusting - seems to be working but I've got no idea how thick the plate is.
Mike
Quote from: mhc on September 16, 2020, 03:15:28 AM
It wouldn't hurt to try it, Nickel plate looks good and helps with corrosion resistance - it might wear away on the contact areas of the teeth after a while depending on how thick the plate is.
Is your electrolyte bath a caswell type secret blend or do you mix your own? I've used a 100 gms/litre nickel acetate bath to plate some steel bench dogs and small parts to stop them rusting - seems to be working but I've got no idea how thick the plate is.
Mike
Previously I had done it at a friends house using their pre made solution but I would make my own this time. I have some food grade glacial from my commercial sauce making days so I'm hoping for better results than you get from table vinegar.
My logic is that most things corrode but this is an additional layer of defense. I'd be hesitant to use it on a drive gear or something but I figure an AR ratchet would be a good use.
A bit of Corrosion 101:
Metals that are corrosion resistant (brass/ stainless) usually achieve the corrosion protection by forming an oxide layer on the surface, which prevents further corrosion. Strangely enough, oxide formation requires oxygen :)
Protective layers like paint or plating work well to prevent corrosion until the saltwater finds a scratch or other defect. At this point the corrosion travels along the surface of the metal under the protective layer, which is an oxygen starved environment, meaning that the metal cannot prevent further corrosion by forming a "healing" oxide. Corrosion does not require oxygen.
One form of this corrosion is called crevice corrosion (why bolts corrode inside of a part), but I think there is a more specific term for this kind of traveling subsurface corrosion.
We have all seen this. It is the corrosion scabs and blisters that form under the chrome plating or paint on metal reel parts. It can also happen with anodized aluminum.
For a dog/pawl, I would personally select a marine grade brass or bronze, and just grease it. If corrosion comes it will progress more slowly and can be scrubbed off of the surface as part of normal maintenance without having to strip off the plating or paint. Just a bit of de-greaser and a wire brush.
Just my $0.02,
-J
There was a guy here (maybe two different guys) doing nickel plating. My impression is that getting a thin coating is not so difficult, but getting a thick coating at home is not so easy.
I'd use raw brass. It's easy to come by and easy to work. If the reel is serviced every now and then, the grease and oil will keep corrosion at bay.
-s
Ok so what I'm gathering is:
No, get stainless steel.
Quote from: RowdyW on September 16, 2020, 01:54:05 PM
No, get stainless steel.
The problem is that generic/unspecified stainless steel washers are easy to come by. In fact i already bought some of the ideal dimensions and may still use them. But 316 stainless (what I assume I'd want if i wanted the actual saltwater based benefits of going stainless) is much harder to find. It doesnt seem to exist locally in the size I would need, and if I'm gonna pay 50+ bucks for a large pack of washers i only need one of, and then have to cut them myself, i might as well deal with the min order and get them properly cut.
Loosely related, the best offer I've found thus far was a $150 min cutting fee (independent from materials cost) with a 12" square sheet of 14 gauge (desired thickness) 316 stainless costing $40. so $190 + tax whether I order one dog and ratchet set or 38 (the # that fits on the sheet). But I talked to them further and by no means does it need to be all the same part for that deal. There could be 20 different pieces on there for all they care. So in theory if others on here want parts of the same thickness we could split the order and everyone wins. I'm not sure if it even needs to be the same sheet. so perhaps other thicknesses are available too within that same min. Order.
I've been meaning to put something out to gauge interest.
SS dogs and rachets. What reel models would you make these for? Just the 8500?
Quote from: Gfish on September 16, 2020, 04:46:41 PM
SS dogs and rachets. What reel models would you make these for?
Currently I'm working on this for my penn 8500SS (would also fit a 7500ss, 850ss and 750ss) but regarding splitting an order, given good measurements (and assuming its the same thickness) I could make it for any reel. I can do the cad work its what i currently do for a living.
Alright, your the "resident good idea generator". I don't see myself with an ss model in the future, but they are a pretty popular old-school spinner.
Just a thought, baitcast/conventional handles...
whats your washer thickness spec?
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 16, 2020, 04:50:34 PM
Quote from: Gfish on September 16, 2020, 04:46:41 PM
SS dogs and rachets. What reel models would you make these for?
Currently I'm working on this for my penn 8500SS (would also fit a 7500ss, 850ss and 750ss) but regarding splitting an order, given good measurements (and assuming its the same thickness) I could make it for any reel. I can do the cad work its what i currently do for a living.
Let me look in my scrap, I think I have some cut that need more work than I want to put into them.
Quote from: thorhammer on September 16, 2020, 05:02:23 PM
whats your washer thickness spec?
According to my caliper the original I'm replacing is roughly 0.08" thick. So really a 14 gauge thru 0.1 would likely work.
Quote from: Keta on September 16, 2020, 05:06:01 PM
Let me look in my scrap, I think I have some cut that need more work than I want to put into them.
Dude. Please and thank you.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 16, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: RowdyW on September 16, 2020, 01:54:05 PM
No, get stainless steel.
The problem is that generic/unspecified stainless steel washers are easy to come by. In fact i already bought some of the ideal dimensions and may still use them. But 316 stainless (what I assume I'd want if i wanted the actual saltwater based benefits of going stainless) is much harder to find. It doesnt seem to exist locally in the size I would need, and if I'm gonna pay 50+ bucks for a large pack of washers i only need one of, and then have to cut them myself, i might as well deal with the min order and get them properly cut.
Generic stainless hardware is going to be 303 or 304 (AKA 18/8). Both should be good enough for a personal reel that you will maintain, just not best. Some of the machined stainless parts in saltwater reels are 303, as 316 is more of a bear to machine, and therefore more costly to make. Corrosion can be an issue, but it is manageable.
Quote
Loosely related, the best offer I've found thus far was a $150 min cutting fee (independent from materials cost) with a 12" square sheet of 14 gauge (desired thickness) 316 stainless costing $40. so $190 + tax whether I order one dog and ratchet set or 38 (the # that fits on the sheet). But I talked to them further and by no means does it need to be all the same part for that deal. There could be 20 different pieces on there for all they care. So in theory if others on here want parts of the same thickness we could split the order and everyone wins. I'm not sure if it even needs to be the same sheet. so perhaps other thicknesses are available too within that same min. Order.
I've been meaning to put something out to gauge interest.
A generous offer on your behalf.
It is not unusual for it to take a couple iterations to get the parts right, and you may find yourself in the hole if folks get parts that don't fit or work quite right. Just about everyone here who has made custom parts has run into this. The odds of getting this right for someone on their first foray into metal working and reel parts is a bit lower. All sorts of unanticipated problems, like tolerances changing over the years in the parts you are trying to fit with. You want your parts to fit snug, but not too snug.
If you want to get into the custom parts side-business, this is probably an easier part to try. If you just want to want to do some cost sharing of a one-time waterjet run, it could get messy.
-----
I have only done my own waterjet cutting and haven't sent out work, but I was under the impression that the cost for a shop job starts with a minimum job charge, but that does not include much if any cutting time. The shop tacks on a per minute charge for the amount of time abrasive is running through the nozzle (cutting) as well. So lots of tiny parts on a small sheet could add to the charge.
Switching stock size should incur another setup charge. They have to generate a fresh set of cutting instructions from a different DXF file, load stock, set the origin, nozzle height, yada yada.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on September 16, 2020, 07:07:02 PM
Generic stainless hardware is going to be 303 or 304 (AKA 18/8). Both should be good enough for a personal reel that you will maintain, just not best. Some of the machined stainless parts in saltwater reels are 303, as 316 is more of a bear to machine, and therefore more costly to make. Corrosion can be an issue, but it is manageable.
Good enough but not best is a slippery slope. But heck I already have them. And i have a very ingenious plan for how I'm gonna cut these semi-precisely. It involves a 12 point socket, a saw blade on a track, and some additional steel washers that prevent from cutting past the desired mark, with 13/16" OD washers being the exact right size (steel being harder than brass i would feel it when i get that far and know to stop) but using a steel target washer is still an option it would just be less of a tactile indication.
An employee at the hardware store was saying bronze is better than brass for saltwater applications. A quick googling seems to agree. Thoughts? (They had bronze thrust washers of the perfect dimensions, so i bought a few)
Quote
A generous offer on your behalf.
Not really, its fairly self serving. But I'm not a greedy person, i don't need to profit from everything i do for/with others.
Quote
It is not unusual for it to take a couple iterations to get the parts right, and you may find yourself in the hole if folks get parts that don't fit or work quite right. Just about everyone here who has made custom parts has run into this. The odds of getting this right for someone on their first foray into metal working and reel parts is a bit lower. All sorts of unanticipated problems, like tolerances changing over the years in the parts you are trying to fit with. You want your parts to fit snug, but not too snug.
If you want to get into the custom parts side-business, this is probably an easier part to try. If you just want to want to do some cost sharing of a one-time waterjet run, it could get messy.
Way to rain on my parade. Just kidding, you bring up valid points. My work has switched me to hourly with overtime, so frankly I'd be amazed if a sales based side gig could generate anywhere near the income that i could get if i spent that time doing more of my actual work. Thinking of it that way (which is something i prefer not to do) I've already blown hundreds of dollars on this and should really try to wrap it up.
Quote
I have only done my own waterjet cutting and haven't sent out work, but I was under the impression that the cost for a shop job starts with a minimum job charge, but that does not include much if any cutting time. The shop tacks on a per minute charge for the amount of time abrasive is running through the nozzle (cutting) as well. So lots of tiny parts on a small sheet could add to the charge.
Switching stock size should incur another setup charge. They have to generate a fresh set of cutting instructions from a different DXF file, load stock, set the origin, nozzle height, yada yada.
-J
Didnt consider that re: different thicknesses so nevermind on that. But the way it was told to me the min charge included all of that and that cutting 38 sets on one sheet still didn't reach the minimum. So the cost is minimum plus metal cost. Maybe they're just being generous, or not nickel and diming because they are new and want more work? I dunno. All i can go by is the quote i was given.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/33/1583_17_09_20_11_28_36.jpeg)
Quote from: Keta on September 17, 2020, 07:14:10 PM
(https://alantani.com/gallery/33/1583_17_09_20_11_28_36.jpeg)
Where ya been all my life? Sending pm