Here's a reel I knew nothing about, but the more I looked at it, the more I liked it. It's not a reel with parts that are easily found. Some of it's parts are used only on Sailfishers, like the odd size gear sleeve. This limits cross use of other parts like the main gear, drag washers, even the tension spring/wave washer. I wanted to tinker with one of these babies so I found a decent one to tear into.
These first two pics show what I bought. It's no shelf queen...could use a face lift for sure...but fully functional. Look close and you'll see it's loaded with old lead core line. The first thing I did was remove that.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4676/39671128391_6a1da47818_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23rAUmg) (https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4662/38773712545_1f9e357279_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/225ipTg)
Wow, the spool is clean under that line. Obviously that line has been dry, or it would have been corroded under it. The rest of the reel is going to need a vinegar bath. This is a strong reel, with a top post and lugs, and a 6 screw stand. I like the large #24-49 handle too.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4740/39671243681_b175eb8896_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23rBuC2)
After removing the head plate and seeing the condition inside it, I'm convinced this is another reel that wasn't fished. When you see these reels that are clean inside the side plate and under the line, but corroded on all exposed areas, it's a safe bet it has just been sitting around in the salt air.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4602/39671243261_80bca60517_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23rBuuM)
It's a roll of the dice when you dip these corroded parts in vinegar. Sometimes the chrome peels off in chunks, leaving you with parts so ugly you wonder why you even tried to clean them! Then other times...like on this reel...the parts come out great. It all depends on how deep the corrosion is into the brass, and you really can't tell just by looking. You just have to go for it...and cross your fingers. The only seriously damaged part is the tension spring/wave washer, but I had to use it, as a normal size tension spring won't slide over that goofy size gear sleeve.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4767/38773714535_e4e5f5052e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/225iqtz)
You may have noticed I have the original drag washers in the parts photo above. That's because I'm actually going to use them. Normally I would change to greased carbon fiber discs...but this time I wanted to test the old style set up...and I was surprised how well it worked. The Sailfisher's drag stack is as odd as it gets for a Penn. A 5-stack...2 leather and 3 red fiber discs. What's that? Yep, the same red fiber discs used under the gear on all vintage Penn reels. I was dumbfounded, it produced 17lbs. easily. It wasn't as smooth as greased carbon fiber...but it was damn close...very usable. Back in the day these leather and red fiber drags were used dry, but I put a light smear of Cal's on them, because it's my party. ;D
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4757/25798966008_eb34f70354_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FiLrLL)
Holy Cannoli, this thing looks a lot better than I anticipated. I need to buy a new spool of 40lb. mono, what's on the reel is all I had. I'll probably change that drag stack to carbon fiber also, because I have an itch to fish this dude. It would make a killer catfishing reel. After sitting and gazing at it a while I had a revelation. This reel is a bigger, faster, stronger Long Beach 60! How about that? A Penn custom, from way back in the early 1950s. 8)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4631/25798965138_989e7ddf34_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FiLrvL)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4698/38773713035_338a0f7e0b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/225iq2H)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4608/39671128831_3bf6daa397_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23rAUtR)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4709/38773713435_b518cb63c7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/225iq9B)[
Looks very nice Mo. For some reason, the chrome on these reels, especially the rings seems to be quite heavy. The only reason I know this as I've stripped a few.
The plastic take a nice sheen too.
Love it with the red handle and just an overall great job! Excellent work Bud!
.............Lou
Mo! That's your sea bass reel. No question. I just rebuilt mine and it will take jiggy drags with a few rats Tail strokes. Sand the wavy and rattle can it black and call it done. This actually may be the perfect bass reel. I thought it overbuilt fir sailfish. You can pop in a power handle fir the trip. Or not. Btw it takes a 33-49 clamp.
Nice Job on that reel Mo. ;)
Quote from: thorhammer on January 13, 2018, 09:20:09 PM
Sand the wavy and rattle can it black and call it done. Btw it takes a 33-49 clamp.
I believe I will sand that wavy...it may be contributing roughness. Hey...the clamp...it's on the reel in the first two pics. I yanked it off and forgot about it...Ha! I think you're right John, with a full spool she'd be a great bass reel. 8)
Thanks also Lou and Daron.
Sweet looking reel Mo, enjoy it!
Sal
Looks good again from where you started! Nice work.
Hey Mo
That drag stack of 2 leather and 3 red fibre washers is exactly what I found in two 3/0 senators.
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/george8322/112%20drag_zpsnzkjssmn.jpg)
cheers Basto
Quote from: basto on January 14, 2018, 05:15:57 AM
Hey Mo
That drag stack of 2 leather and 3 red fibre washers is exactly what I found in two 3/0 senators.
Very interesting Basto...I found this same stack in a Long Beach 66...so it appears folks were converting other models to the Sailfisher set up. It must have performed well for this to be happening. I can say that in my tests it was much better than a stack of all leather or even the old brake lining discs. Those set ups are famous for "chattering" at high settings. The Sailfisher set up didn't do that, it was less pronounced as it varied, smoother. I actually hit 20lbs. on the scale, but by backing off to 17lbs. it pulled more to our liking.
I read many of the older threads here pertaining to the Sailfisher 130 while I was working on mine. Most folks had converted their reels to a carbon fiber 5-stack...making 20-25lbs. of drag. I'd like to do this too...
but...having the stock brass gear sleeve under that kind of load might be trouble. Here's my idea: Instead of 5 carbon fiber washers, substitute one or two with a Delrin washer. Not only should that hold max power to 15-20lbs., it should also be super smooth. 8)
Good save Mo......I was doubting your sanity after looking at the first photos, but it cleaned up really well....Im assuming you used the dish soap/ baking soda mixture for the initial clean up.....Bill
Quote from: Bill B (Tarfu) on January 15, 2018, 06:06:20 PM
Good save Mo......I was doubting your sanity after looking at the first photos, but it cleaned up really well....Im assuming you used the dish soap/ baking soda mixture for the initial clean up.....Bill
Correct Bill, after the vinegar soak I cleaned the parts with the dish soap/baking soda method. The baking soda bubbles like crazy as it neutralizes the vinegar. I believe it's some sort of "oxy-clean" deal, those scrubbing bubbles work. 8)
Try scaling the reel again with a full spool... if you got 17lb with it that empty I'll be surprised if it gets to 10lb with the spool full.
I can't get enough of this.. Nice job Mo ! Now I gotta put a sailfisher on my list ha... p.s. I think the red knobs make em' fish better.... Carl
Quote from: boon on January 16, 2018, 02:00:46 AM
Try scaling the reel again with a full spool... if you got 17lb with it that empty I'll be surprised if it gets to 10lb with the spool full.
Recently I've been testing drags at 3/4 to 1/2 spool...it only makes sense. I doubt if I ever hook a fish at full spool. 8)
Earlier in this thread I mentioned a hybrid drag stack because I was uncomfortable with the amount of power a carbon fiber 5-stack can develop in this reel. With no steel gear sleeve option you could get into trouble here, as that carbon fiber 5-stack can hit the 25lb.+ mark. Let's put a governor on it...cap it at 20 pounds. Here's the proposed drag stack. I subbed the top carbon fiber disc with a Delrin washer. This is to loose some power, the Delrin doesn't bite like the carbon fiber. Hopefully, it will contribute no power. I'll be happy if it just scrubs a few pounds off, just to safeguard my stock brass sleeve. The carbon fiber discs are Penn HT-100s, and the washer at the far left is the under gear Delrin.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4657/26356591398_0107e7e4f4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ga3qnC)
Since I had to increase the inside diameter of these drag washers I slipped them all on a #98-155 gear sleeve. I then taped them together so I could slip them back off the sleeve but held in place.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4671/26356592038_0b1a71fd4a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ga3qyE)
The 130's sleeve is only a few thousandths bigger than a #98-155 so a little dremeling should put us in business.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4699/26356591838_51c0184d61_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ga3qvd)
BOOYAH! They slid right on the 130's gear sleeve. The 130's sleeve was a bit sloppy, so I added a shim behind it while I was under the hood.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4664/26356591108_096563763b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ga3qhC)
I also stated earlier the stock wave washer was bugging me...so I replaced it too...with a big ol' honkin' 9/0 Senator wave washer! It's so much thicker I didn't need the spacer, the pic below shows the 9/0 washer above the stock washer and spacer. Now the drag star reacts like I always wished they would. Instead of going from 0 to full on within a half a turn it has more range.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4613/26356592328_91179dd53e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ga3qDE)
What reel hop-up would be complete without some stainless steel? Since no gear sleeve is available, this stainless yoke should get us by...
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4749/26356591548_02e226960b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ga3qqd)
I greased all the drags with Cal's, filled 'er up with new 40lb. mono, and broke out the scale. It smoothly reached 19lbs...fully tightened star was barely over 20lbs...success!! I feel like with that power cap, plus the perfectly tight fit of Ted's handle, I can fish this puppy with confidence. 8)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4658/26356590858_48b91e4521_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ga3qdj)
very, very, nice work Mike. IMO you should put ole skool pink Ande back on that sleeper and go slay with it! Note, Cabelas Salt Line is readily available in pink, blue and yellow and is very economical in bulk for a rough and ready line.
Nice Mo! You got me interested in the Sailfisher. That looks like an uncommonly large bridge plate, if I'm lookin at it in the right perspective. I really like the stock strength design on this'n.
Gfish
Mike: Let me add, Outstanding job!
Joe
Using a Delrin washer at the bottom of the main gear and one above the drag stack is always the best choice, no matter if you're trying to reduce drag or not.
Sal
That's a great looking real Mo, cleaned up very nicely.
Quote from: Gfish on February 12, 2018, 09:54:20 PM
Nice Mo! You got me interested in the Sailfisher. That looks like an uncommonly large bridge plate, if I'm lookin at it in the right perspective. I really like the stock strength design on this'n.
Gfish
the guts are way beyond that needed in a "sailfish" reel.. i was surprised.
Great looking reel. I have 2 now and really like them. They are super versatile.
If Tom makes a frame and bar for these you wont be able to find one for sale....
Very nice, Mo! I'm sensing a slow migration from sweet to saltwater in your posts. :D
Quote from: thorhammer on February 14, 2018, 02:43:32 AM
If Tom makes a frame and bar for these you wont be able to find one for sale....
If he makes a 970 frame, you could put its crossbars on the sailfisher, if my frankenreel sense is right.
Quote from: thorhammer on February 14, 2018, 02:43:32 AM
If Tom makes a frame and bar for these you wont be able to find one for sale....
For sure John...as they aren't easy to find already. Actually, I was thinking a ss gear sleeve and aluminum spool would make this reel a household name. The frame work is pretty stout as is...with the six screw stand and top post. If we had an aluminum spool I could cast this thing. That bronze spool has the inertia of a freight train. I spun it and got a full minute of freespool...recipe for either a burnt thumb or a massive bird's nest. This reel fell into the same blackhole as the Silverbeach 99, two of Penn's greatest creations, yet many folks have never heard of either one. If anyone has ever dreamed of a faster, bigger, stronger LB60...this Sailfisher 130 is your boy! 8)
That turned out splendid Mo!
What a beautiful reel!
Mo,
Wow, great job on the restoration!
And also, thanks for the play by play on your thought process on the drag stack. That plus the pics really help those of us with much less experience understand what you did, and why, and more importantly what is possible on these reels.
Thanks😁
Brett
I've got a couple of these hiding in a box-o-reels somewhere. They have moved up the list. Thank.
Exemplary job, Mo! I just picked up one of these. I was ready to put together a Grouper Special narrowed 113 with 66 spool, but now I'm thinking this may be a better reel.
Mo,
Great post, perfect read with my morning coffee! It's a beauty!
Thanks for the inspiration Mo. Mine's gonna yak troll with that rig tomorrow early AM. When the sun comes up I'mina switch to an dead bait Opelu(bigeye scad) and see. Indeed, a very nice strong Penn. Switched the leather washers to C-tex, kept the fiber washers as they were, put on the Penn power handle n' knob and that was it...
Way ta go G! 8)
Great work Mo, you brought it back to life nicely, that reel is real solid, also the screw stand, is great, your baking soda & soap powder mix, what is the ratio you mix, 50/50 or,?, cheers Don
Had some time to play last night, and did this as a proof of concept. [Thorhammer, avert your gaze from the photo below :o] There are very few parts from the Sailfisher 130 that interchange with other reels; however, as I suspected, the cross bars from the Mag 970 do work on the Sailfisher. I think they will also fit the SeaBoy 185.
Of course, who wants to strip such a beautiful reel as a 970? A 970 frame kit would make this practical. ;D
Hey Joe, did we discuss whether 501 bars fit? the 500 bars fit 990. That would give the option for black newell parts also, and leave your 970 intact. Agree, I hope Magpower frames come to being at some point.
John
Quote from: thorhammer on April 05, 2018, 01:15:09 PM
Hey Joe, did we discuss whether 501 bars fit? the 500 bars fit 990. That would give the option for black newell parts also, and leave your 970 intact. Agree, I hope Magpower frames come to being at some point.
John
John, 501 bars will definitely not fit a 970 or a Sailfisher. 500 bars fit the 980 and 990.
Quote from: Decker on April 05, 2018, 12:52:37 PM
There are very few parts from the Sailfisher 130 that interchange with other reels; however, as I suspected, the cross bars from the Mag 970 do work on the Sailfisher. I think they will also fit the SeaBoy 185. Of course, who wants to strip such a beautiful reel as a 970? A 970 frame kit would make this practical. ;D
Good investigative work Joe. I'd think this idea should serve the Seaboy 185 better, as it has the option of a steel gear sleeve. More then likely, pushing drag power in the Sailfisher 130 to the point of needing better frame strength is going to result in a gear sleeve failure. I sure wish Penn would have just used a common #98-60 in the 130, we'd have a very cool reel to soup up! 8)
Alright Joe! You've "raised the bar" for the Sailfisher...
Quote from: Gfish on April 05, 2018, 02:33:08 PM
Alright Joe! You've "raised the bar" for the Sailfisher...
By that much! ::)
(https://stockhead.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/get-smart.jpg)
Hee hee...tiny steps are good steps too Joe...keep experimenting! 8)
I wonder...will this be the final incarnation for this reel? It started as a bone stock restoration, then got some upgrades intended for catfishing, and now it's sporting 80lb. braid for deep drop service. 8)
Love it Mo!
Hope I can find one someday!
Well, I know next to nothing about deep drop fishing, but I leaned a little on a recent trip out, so I think I have a set up here I can work with. My brother scored a Senator rod and a 113H for $40, so I talked him out of the rod since it looked a lot like the rods they used on our trip. The guides had a bit of corrosion and the blank was scuffed a good bit, but she seemed solid.
I realized I had began cleaning the rod before I took any pics, so this first photo shows the difference between cleaned and "as found". I was surprised how easy the scuff marks came off.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/836/42602852755_b021556ac0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27UEKS4)
This guide was the worst one. I soaked the guides in vinegar for a few minutes and then brushed them clean with baking soda/dish soap mixture.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/914/43507588161_64a4c14622_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29hBLbn)
It looks pretty good now. Not perfect...but solid.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/931/42602852095_fea4b6d08a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27UEKEF)
These three pics show the general outcome as best I can...ever try to photograph a rod? It ain't easy!
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/941/42602851265_1409c71183_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27UEKqn)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/927/43507587611_7bea095672_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29hBL1T)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/849/42790607224_601eef7ddb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28cg3J5)
When I went to install the rod clamp, I wanted to be sure it wouldn't end up like all the rod clamps I remove during restorations. I put a good coat of Penn Blue between all connections.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/916/43507586861_8a06ea642f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29hBKMX)
Looking at those long sharp knuckle skinners reminded me how some folks here talked about shortening these screws.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/939/42602850255_89a38560a3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27UEK7X)
With the screws shortened I could use acorn nuts. Now it has a nice smooth look and feel.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1766/43507586171_e12e5b5c95_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29hBKA4)
Here's the finished combo. I think it should serve me well. Any tips would be appreciated though...as I don't even know how to thread the line through those rollers. 8)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1768/42602849235_fa4a68d473_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27UEJPn)
Mike, that's a perfect bottom rig. I have a half-dozen of those rods, and they use them on head boats for a reason...they haven't been made in prolly 20 years yet you still them today in some of the most abusive fishing conditions.
First guide, go under first roller and over second (towards the tip), the all the rest with single rollers go under the top of frame and over the top of the roller, so the line is always on top of the rollers as you flex rod downward at the tip.
John
Thanks John!
Looks like a great outfit !! And kudos on the clean-up !!
Beautiful rod Mo, your restoration skills are beyond most others I've seen.
The sailfisher you created is very pleasing to the eyes and also looks intimidating matched up with that rod. Better hide it from your bro or he may steal it back when yure not lookin' ;) ;)
Hi Mo your 130 sail fisher is screaming out to be double dogged - It was one of the easiest to do - I used an old 200 bridge for the dog and an old drill bit for the post .
Rgds Matt.
great work! love the jeweling.
Way ta go Matt! If ss gear sleeves were available for these reels I'd be double dogging mine right now, and reap the full power of the carbon fiber 5-stack that I put the "rev limiter" on. Even stock brass sleeves are unobtanium. 8)
Got a brass gear sleeve and some other parts if you need 'em Mo. When I got mine, I bought 2. The 2nd one had an unusable tailplate and ring.
Mattman, howdaya peen down a drill bit fora bridge post? Aren't they pretty hard?
Hi Gfish - No peening required - the post I make are slightly larger than the hole and put a small taper on the end that goes into the bridge - a small drop of red Loctite to the post and press it in using a bench vice .
Rgds
Matt...
Just found this thread Mo, nice work!
A fishing buddy of mine who is a bit older than me (early 60's to my 38) was looking at my Penn 705z on a recent trip and said he had a few old Penn reels he used to use. I told him I may be able to fix them up and once we got back to his place to clean his boat he pulled out this 130. He said he had an old jigmaster somewhere but couldn't find it. Apparently his dad bought this 130 new, it was so expensive at the time it nearly ended in divorce ;D. I swear my wife has threatened that after a few purchases, funny how some things don't change...
Anyway, he does not collect reels, but fishes them hard. I am going to give it a complete overhaul taking into account your few changes - the 113 tension washer, and two delrin + 3 carbontex in the drag stack. My friend is pretty hard on his stuff; I imagine this reel will end up with the drag buttoned down and I would hate to see him strip the gears on a tight drag with a spool full of braid. I will be keen to see how well this patina cleans up, I notice yours came up quite well!
Cheers,
Andrew
The internal grease looks like mud!
Someone has been under the hood before - the thin wavy washer was between the handle and the drag star, and there is no small shim to be seen. The drag was either off or on. The drag washers all came out in pieces; I suspect they are the same material as yours Mo but cannot tell due to the grease (and I ain't cleaning them to find out!).
I have noticed now the handle is loose in the blade too, will have to reassess once it is all cleaned up.
Now to get onto the cleaning, and ordering some carbontex and delrin. Will need to track down the 113 washer as well. I will hopefully have this baby purring again one day!
Andrew
Looking forward to the AFTER pic! Love these reels.
John
Quote from: Ruffy on September 11, 2023, 06:38:06 AMNow to get onto the cleaning, and ordering some carbontex and delrin.
If you're going to fish it, I'd be happy to help you out. I have some parts that aren't pristine but are good for a "working reel". Just cover the shipping from TX. I don't have everything for it, not many do anymore or they're locked up in secret places... but I'll help where I can.
The 130 bridge sleeve is a larger diameter. Keep that in mind. Heck, most of that model is one-off. You'll see!
I have some of these. Getting them seaworthy is pretty easy. Making one shine
and work like new again can be challenging.
Thanks for wanting to save it!
Mike, where you been hiding? Let's see some big cat pics!
Quote from: thorhammerMike, where you been hiding? Let's see some big cat pics!
Fishing has been
tough for us this year...only catching a few small ones here and there. My brother says we lost our "good luck charm" when ol' Robbie left us. I sure miss that guy. Thanks for checking on me, been doing fine, hope all is well on your end too! :fish
Finally got around to cleaning my friends sailfisher up. Man it is beat up! The chrome is completely gone from the spool. All the other chrome parts (base/bars/rings) have cleaned up reasonably well, but the chrome is clearly pitted so there will be little protection against further corrosion. The handle post has become loose with the grip ceased to the post, so the (previously peened) handle post spins in the blade. There is even rust on the base of the steel main...
I also realised why the drag would go from zero to 100. There was no wavy tension washer in there. I am guessing it probably rusted previously and got tossed, at which time there was no drag adjustment and it went in a box...
I've got three carbontex and two delrin for it - to make a three stack drag with two dummy delrin to space it out, as well as a delrin under gear. I can't source a 113 wavy washer as Mo's original hop-up but will call Daiwa tomorrow to see if I can get some 50H/300H tension drag washers.
I'll get it back to complete and functional. Given it's current state, I'll tell him he could fish it but knowing he doesn't look after his gear too well I may also suggest it becomes memorabilia for his shelf, or if he needs something functional a paper weight ;D
Cheers,
Andrew
And all back together. Not without it's hiccups though. On closer inspection the rod clamp had a near full thickness break, as evidenced by the corrosion on the break. I noticed a few small cracks on the rings where the rod clamps go, and then while doing the eccentric screw up the top of the screw cracked off. I like to think I'm strong, but it was with minimal force so must've had a stress fracture already as well. It was pretty stiff to undo, so perhaps I caused it then. Looks like I have to track down one of them, will have a look at Penn parts.
Mo, what was the ratio of liquid soap to baking soda for the cleaning solution ?
Quote from: sabaman1 on January 26, 2024, 06:05:15 PMMo, what was the ratio of liquid soap to baking soda for the cleaning solution ?
Just a few drops of soap to a pile in the palm of my hand...no real science to it. :fish
I've enjoyed this series and it has promped me to look again at the Sailfisher I have sitting on the reel shelf. It always seemed very well built compared to many Penns of a similar vintage - just purred nicely when fiddled with.
Going to strip it down, clean it up and load with some line for general bottom fishing here in the UK. Probably overkill for almost everything, but we do have to contend with strong tides in most places and leads of 10oz are not unusual. Would look nice alongside my other rod with its 349HC Super Mariner that is kept for those times when over 1lb of lead is needed, even with PE braid.