Heating up guide wraps to remove them is normal right? How does one avoid going too far? Only do rod work when sober is step one apparently.
I just cooked and ruined a blank. Better a $20 lesson than a $200 lesson but it still hurts, and i wanna never make that mistake again.
hair dryer on low... if buzzed, you'll get bored & find something else to do, long before any damage
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on December 18, 2021, 05:21:13 AM
Heating up guide wraps to remove them is normal right?
Since when? Won't it get gummy?
The object is to heat the finish just enough, and only enough, to soften it so you can peel/cut it away easily. Once you get to the thread it will usually just pop right off with the thread. I've never had a problem doing it, but then I never indulge when I'm trying to work on something. The two don't usually mix very well.
??? Come on over and i learn you how to do both !!!!!!!!
I try and avoid using any un-necessary heat on any rod work.
Removing guides is best done with a careful sober hand employing a sharp craft knife, cutting along the ridge of the wrapping on top of the foot of the guide. Cut both sides on a two foot guide, then twist to remove guide, and then just peel off the redundant wrapping. Might occasionally need further careful use of a knife to pick up an edge thread and carry on unwinding.
No heat needed. Preferred tool is a Stanley knife - big enough handle and stiff blade. Back of blade then used to scrape away any residual resin on the blank.
I do it precisely as Jeri says.
I use a heat gun on low to soften the finish then a tiny slice at the end of the wrap. Grab the end of the thread then un-wind under power. Won't gouge the blank that way
Yeah that was a first and last time doing something non sober. Wasnt hammered but a few beers dulled my wits. I'm not much of a drinker in general anymore in general.
I tend to use a lighter to just barely soften the epoxy. Guess i got carried away. Thankfully it was a random cheap rod that I grabbed on a buzzed whim, not an important project.
So you guys don't use heat at all? Interesting. I guess I was way off. But that's nothing new.
I'm sure folks w/ years of experience can use metal,
but read somewhere that newbs like us should use a plastic knife to scrape blanks
disposable white/clear plastic didn't work at all -- just crumbled
non-disposable grey "better plastic" camping utensils worked GREAT
I think I have the old loose 4-pc. version of this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozark-Trail-3-Piece-Sturdy-Polystyrene-Spoon-Fork-and-Knife-Set/49332888
I use a pocket knife to cut off the guide and scrape the blank. For old rods with varnish I scrape the entire blank.
Hey Steve, how come you are using an avatar of my friend Wayne? ;D ;D Dominick
Because my old avitar was a fifteen-year-old photo and was becoming deceptive. This captures my debonaire self image. Besides, I'm more interested in chickens than reels now.
Jason, how do you know you cooked and ruined the blank?
did the rod felt apart because of the heat?
I do use a lighter to soften the epoxy above the foot of the guides but 90% of the rods I restore are heavy duty/old saltwater glass rods, I will have hard time using the same technique on light and super thin freshwater rods, tho.
Quote from: steelfish on December 20, 2021, 06:09:14 PM
Jason, how do you know you cooked and ruined the blank?
did the rod felt apart because of the heat?
I do use a lighter to soften the epoxy above the foot of the guides but 90% of the rods I restore are heavy duty/old saltwater glass rods, I will have hard time using the same technique on light and super thin freshwater rods, tho.
After I removed the wraps I saw there was a noticeable kink to the rod at that location. I already knew it was trouble. I started to bend it a bit and it snapped at that spot immediately. There was no question.
I tried last night with no heat on the identical rod bought as a replacement, and it wasn't any more difficult. My methodology has officially been revised.
I normally dont use heat on the guides near to the tip because the same reason.
heat, craft knife and buzz is not good mix, we tend to use more the " what if..."
There are only three applications of work on rod blanks using heat of any sort, bearing in mind we predominantly work on heavier surf rods, so going down in size of blank/rod makes these even more sensitive.
1. Gently apply heat around a tip guide with a small gas lighter to soften glue to replace, only enough heat to allow the resin to loosen and then pliers to remove guide.
2. To shrink, heat shrink onto blank handles, low setting on heat gun, or higher settings on a hair dryer. Rotating blank as it heats and shrinks, so no one spot gets anywhere near excessive heat.
3. bursting bubbles in fresh applied thread resin, again minimal to just pop the air bubble, never enough to get resin flowing.
Any other applications basically require steady sober hand, with sharp tools.
Perhaps Jeri will comment to this.
I used to not worry too much about using heat on a blank as "Graphite gets heated during manufacture" nothing extreme obviously.
To replace a tip guide I would just use a small flame or sometimes heat gun and heat it up to soften the hot melt glue, it was never a problem.
Then one day I replaced a tip on an imported New Zealand blank, the whole tip just bent and fell of like a piece of PVC that you heated up. It broke 1/2 inch above the tip.
I then took it that different manufacturers use different resins on their blanks and some are more effected by heat then others.....would that be correct?
Since then I have been more careful.
They are heat-cured on a mandrel.
Quote from: Cor on December 21, 2021, 06:34:38 AM
........... the whole tip just bent and fell of like a piece of PVC that you heated up. It broke 1/2 inch above the tip.
been there done that
Quote from: Cor on December 21, 2021, 06:34:38 AM
Perhaps Jeri will comment to this.
I used to not worry too much about using heat on a blank as "Graphite gets heated during manufacture" nothing extreme obviously.
To replace a tip guide I would just use a small flame or sometimes heat gun and heat it up to soften the hot melt glue, it was never a problem.
Then one day I replaced a tip on an imported New Zealand blank, the whole tip just bent and fell of like a piece of PVC that you heated up. It broke 1/2 inch above the tip.
I then took it that different manufacturers use different resins on their blanks and some are more effected by heat then others.....would that be correct?
Since then I have been more careful.
Seen that on one of the two NZ blanks that I have come across. Different pre-preg companies use different resins and different weights per square metre, the choice becomes almost endless. Different resins will have different melting points. The same NZ blank I found that on, I experienced that they were also prone to being very brittle, almost as if too high a carbon strength in the build of the blank. Have also found the same problem in one or two of the blanks/rods coming into southern Africa from China, exceptionally sensitive to too much heat.
Quote from: Jeri on December 18, 2021, 01:27:48 PM
I try and avoid using any un-necessary heat on any rod work.
Removing guides is best done with a careful sober hand employing a sharp craft knife, cutting along the ridge of the wrapping on top of the foot of the guide. Cut both sides on a two foot guide, then twist to remove guide, and then just peel off the redundant wrapping. Might occasionally need further careful use of a knife to pick up an edge thread and carry on unwinding.
No heat needed. Preferred tool is a Stanley knife - big enough handle and stiff blade. Back of blade then used to scrape away any residual resin on the blank.
+1
this is what I've always done, worked on every wrap I've tried over forty years now.
Epoxy is a bugger though, can understand the temptation to heat that a bit. Citristrip has worked the one time I tried it, seemed to soften the epoxy enough to make it easier to peel.
The police in Grand Junction CO had to rescue a couple drunks in a Wal-mart raft, from an island in the Colorado river running 30 000cfs and 50 degree water.
The newspaper story said, "Police advise that boaters should be prepared and sober".
Prepared and sober is how I try to approach my rodbuilding too ;-)
Some of the most epic stories come from having just enough knowledge, just enough booze, and winging the rest of it. They're not typically success stories in my experience, but epic none the less. You just have to tell the story the right way.
Jason your story sounds like it fits this category. "There I was, a razor sharp blade in my good hand, a bottle of Brugal Leyenda in the other. I set the knife down in place for my blow torch, next thing I know, the whole thing explodes right in front of me. Looks like I found a quicker way to finish the job"
The story sounds a lot cooler if you don't know what it is you were actually trying to accomplish.
P.S. I'm gonna stop heating the epoxy on the guides before I remove them. Thanks for the lesson!
Nick
Well i think this may help from overheating the epoxy , better yet if you can find the cardboard book matches ....
My best friend just showed up again ......
Silver lining to this story. I kept the bottom piece of this 2 piece rod. I put it to use in conjunction with a throwaway reel when my son complained that his kite wasn't flying high enough with the supplied string and arbor.
So if someone tells you to stop being a hoarder, share this story.
When I was a kid I used to go out with a surf rod and clip several plastic bags to the line and then "fight" the wind. Was good fun, other people using the park clearly thought I was nuts though.
Haha nice move
I did the same with my youngest kid, but she only used the reel but told her next time will be with a handle and reel seat just as you did it
That one guide is all you need
Rod/reel work = sober, fishing = optional, but more fun high.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on May 22, 2022, 06:48:12 PMSilver lining to this story. I kept the bottom piece of this 2 piece rod. I put it to use in conjunction with a throwaway reel when my son complained that his kite wasn't flying high enough with the supplied string and arbor.
So if someone tells you to stop being a hoarder, share this story.
When the wind blows in the right direction ,he can fish the local pond from the house ..