Hello all. My first post here so hopefully I don't break anything. ;D I've fished off and on for decades around So Cal, but the past couple of seasons has given me the itch again. Itchy enough to throw a wad of cash on some tackle and I'd really welcome any advice from seasoned veterans. Basically I want to get two or three rigs for 3/4 to 1.5 day six-packs and party boats out of So Cal, with perhaps some room to grow into longer trips.
The six-pack charters I've been on recently have provided everything, including the tackle: braid with a short flouro leader for use with all live bait, sardines and anchovies. These rigs are always better than the old bargain junk I've got sitting in the garage and at least as good as the rental rods I've gotten at the docks. Based on this limited first hand experience and lots of internet-ing, I'm thinking the following might be good all around set-ups for me:
50# braid to 25# mono topshot or flouro wind-on
60# braid to 40# mono topshot or flouro wind-on
80# braid to 60# flouro wind-on
Running these lines on the following United Composites rods:
Elite MAG (I like the extra length for casting)
Elite MEGA or RCE700H (undecided)
RCE700XXH
As for reels, I'm still undecided but really like what I see from Okuma and Penn. I'm thinking good casting star drag for the 25# and then 2-speed lever drags for the 40# and 60#. Or perhaps no star drag and all 2-speed LD's? In order of price, they look to be Penn Fathom, Okuma Andros, and Penn Torque. Obviously, all three reels don't need to be from the same mfg, but I'm OCD.
Value:
Fathom FTH15
Fathom FTH25NLD2
Fathom FTH40NLD2
Middle:
Tesoro TSR-5S
Andros 12NSII
Andros 16
Expensive:
Torque TRQ15
Torque TRQ25NLD2
Torque TRQ40NLD2
The difference in price between these is not insignificant, with Okuma sitting in the middle. I've fished the Fathom and the reel certainly did what it was supposed to. Only the other hand, I didn't hook anything big enough to really test it, and I don't recall it as being "premium" in any way. Maybe the looks and finish are giving me some bias? As for the others, I've only handed them in-store.
So then, fisherman's jewelry or meaningful upgrade? Best straight out of the box? Handles the best? Require more routine maintenance than the others? Easiest to maintain? Enough of a difference based on cost? Etc.? Any thoughts and opinions on these set-ups and advice to help me decide would be much appreciated!
Looks like you've done your homework and I'm sure the repair pros will chime in on the ins and outs. Only thing I'd say is 2speeds for light line seems excessive just more stuff to break
I use a Phenix psw808mh for 25#. The UC US80 Mag would be good too.
I like the UC US76HP and Phenix psw700xh for 40#
I like the UC 76 Raptor or Predator 76 for 60#. Predator 80 if you like 8'. I use a Phenix phd700x2h.
I'm capable of taking 5 rigs with 5 different makes of reels and 5 makes of rods.
I'm taking a 2 1/2 day over Memorial Day and currently planning on:
20# Fathom 12 / OC Rods Kaiuli 86HF Mag
30# Accurate dx2-400 / psw760h
40# Avet JX 6/3 / UC US76HP
60# Shimano Twinpower 14k / Black Hole CB S-801H for poppers and surface iron.
Will change things up if it looks like big BFT are in the mix.
Trust me, 30# is not too light for a 2-speed. I caught an 85# BFT on the 30# rig above and it took an hour and 1/2 and took me around the boat 7 times, 5 times under the anchor line. I spent plenty of time in low using the rail!
If money is not a issue I'd go with the Torque's, if your more budget minded the Fathom's would be my choice.
I have nothing bad to say about the Okuma reels I just don't own any. The people I know that fish them like them.
My 25 lb set up is a Daiwa BG 20H matched to a Calstar 800L. The only reason I went with the Daiwa was because the Fathom line if reels had not hit the market yet. Now if I was going to buy a reel for 25 lb I'd go with a Fathom 12, maybe the 15. You could back that reel with 30 or 40 lb braid and still be solid to fish 25 lb toppers. I personally like smaller reels that offer the drag, cranking power and line yardage I'm looking for so the 12 may be better fit for me.
I own a Fathom 25N star drag that I use as a 30 lb reel and like it just fine. A friend who lives in Loreto B.C.S. needed a 40 lb reel and asked me what reel he should get, budget was a issue for him. On my recommendation he purchased the Fathom 25n LD two speed and likes it very much. Its a super reel that can handle big fish
My nephew bought the Fathom 40N LD two speed for his 50-60 lb reel but has not caught anything challenging with it, but this reel will handle those tests no problem.
I own reels and rods from several manufactures so I really don't need for them to be from one, but I am a bit OCD also, as all of my reels are black except for one and so are the rod blanks. I like my gear to match in rod and reel color. I don't get my rods custom wrapped any more but but if you saw my gear on a boat in the racks you would be able to easily tell they all belong to the same person.
P.S. The YT in my avatar were caught on my Fathom 25N star and here is a couple of pics of a thresher my buddy caught with bait on his 25N two speed. You can see his reel in the first pic.
Sorry Steve,
I can see them on both of the browsers I use. One is AOL, don't laugh I use AOL to stay in contact with my pops. Sometimes it's easier not to try to teach old dogs new tricks, if you know what I mean. The other is Google Chrome and I also can see them on my Android phone. All three work here and even in your copy of my reply I can see them.
I can't see them on google chrome either,just a circle with a bar in it.
Quote from: Swami805 on April 14, 2018, 02:44:19 PM
I can't see them on google chrome either,just a circle with a bar in it.
pretty sure Mark is using google pics from his account content, I tried using it and I could see my pics on the posts but nobody could, so I stop it using it and now I use inhouse (my gallery /alantani ) storage or attach them with the additional options on the bottom
and to keep the post on track, I can say that buy you the best reels you wallet let you, I know there is a buch of best for the buck reels out there and many bargain reels that could do the job but checking your current rods and selection I see that you are not after bargain or best for the buck reels.
I have used penn fathom LD2 reels and now Im using a Mak15sea, torque reels are in the same value of Mak reels but not the same intended use, Makaira reels are more similar to the tank Penn international reel bit heavy but strong as a reel can be.
why dont you mix and match brands and try to find your favorite, every reel feels different for any angler.
my current setup for Baja (sea of cortez) fishing its the next
15lb - 25lb Low profile Okuma Komodo 364 -------Okuma inshore stalker 801XH
20lb - 30lb saltist20h/calcutta 400TE ----------- St Croix. 7.6h muskie rod/phenix blackdiamond 700h
30lb- 40lb trinidad 16 (gold)/solterra 10slx ----- shimano trevala 5.8 XXH / phenix blackdiamond 700h
50lb - 60lb Makaira 15 SEa / Penn 113hn Baja Special ----Phenix Axis 820h / Seeker SS 6460XH
as you see Im not married with a brand, I like to try every reel I can and chose my goto reels I like and sell the rest.
Thanks for the feedback and recommendations. Leaning towards the Fathoms but I'm still mulling this all over.
The way I see it, this purchase is not an investment. Rather, it's a discretionary, luxury purchase. So, just like a car, I might want to sell or trade at some point. This brings up an important factor: resale value.
Thoughts?
I tried uploading the pics using " Additional Options", can you all see them now?
Quote from: SoCalAngler on April 20, 2018, 02:45:30 AM
I tried uploading the pics using " Additional Options", can you all see them now?
Great pictures! ...in living color
steve
Quote from: SoCalAngler on April 20, 2018, 02:45:30 AM
I tried uploading the pics using " Additional Options", can you all see them now?
Yep.. great Pictures Mark
Resale value it's tough to beat a Newell. There old and you'll be buying used but you can usually sell then for the same you bought hem for. Easy to get parts and to fix, and fish as well as any new star drag reel.
I'd hazard a guess that the Fathoms would have the best resale value of the Fathoms, Andros and Torques.
It looks like the resale values are all pretty similar based on searching on the 'bay. Andros has a very slight advantage, followed by Torque and then Fathom. Frankly, I didn't find enough transactions for this comparison to be meaningful, which makes me wonder where the secondary market is. Whatever. I'll disregard resale value as a deciding factor. Edit: To my eye, the finish of the Fathoms wears far worse than anodized finishes.
Interestingly, I found few direct comparisons between these three product lines. Fathom vs Andros or Andros vs Torque. Fathom vs Torque discussions ultimately seem to end up as a price debate. FWIW, the most common complaints about these reels are the gaudy gold color of the Torques, abrupt drag curve and sometimes less drag at full than strike with Fathoms, and the lack of thrust bearing with the Andros.
Despite the lack of a thrust bearing assembly, I didn't find many complaints of Andros bearing failure. Is it fair to say there shouldn't be any issues if fished safely under max? Maybe I'll let vanity be the deciding factors and pick the Andros because it's finish will look better on the rod. Decisions, decisions....
You should have no issue with the Andros reels. I have three 12's. I've replaced the right side bearing in one & I'm pretty sure it was bad when I got it. Probably from a customer cranking the drag down to far prior to my purchase. These are great reels for 50 line. Mine see 25 lbs. of drag frequently. A lot of people use 60 on them. There is no more handle bind in them at higher drag than the Penn Torques. Maybe less. The drag remains very fishable at higher settings.
I am in no way saying they are an 80 lb. class reel. They are not. However they can produce 25lbs. of drag & a little more when needed to help stop a fish. Doing so with out destroying the pinion bearing.
My thoughts are they are worth every penny paid for them. However I believe the Penn Torque is a more refined reel.
When some one combines the pluses of both reels that will be one dandy reel... Jeff
Shimano Talica 20/25 are a great 65lb reel and a pleasure to fish with. Quite expensive though.
Yes, the Shimano's look to be very nice as well, thanks for the suggestion. I'm leaning toward the less expensive options so the Talica and Torque are unlikely at this point.
Quote from: Rivverrat on April 22, 2018, 03:40:50 AM
You should have no issue with the Andros reels. I have three 12's. I've replaced the right side bearing in one & I'm pretty sure it was bad when I got it. Probably from a customer cranking the drag down to far prior to my purchase. These are great reels for 50 line. Mine see 25 lbs. of drag frequently. A lot of people use 60 on them. There is no more handle bind in them at higher drag than the Penn Torques. Maybe less. The drag remains very fishable at higher settings.
I'm finding it difficult to compare line capacities between Okuma and Penn based on the specs provided. Varying line diameters further complicate the issue.
Let's say I wanted ~400yds/60# hollow plus ~100yds/40# mono topshot on the narrowest, smallest reel fit to do the job. Which size to choose? I'm guessing the Andros 12N might be too small, the FTH25N might just barely hold it all, and the Andros 12 with a bit extra capacity? Jeff, I think I saw a post you made comparing the Andros 12 with the Fathom 25N so perhaps you'd have a better idea?
Thanks!
I don't think a Fathom 25n would take 400 yds of 60# plus 100 yds of 40# mono.
Quote from: MarkT on April 23, 2018, 05:22:44 PM
I don't think a Fathom 25n would take 400 yds of 60# plus 100 yds of 40# mono.
Shucks, ok. Maybe 400yds + mono is just wishful thinking on these smaller reels.
I think I have 300 yds of 65# with a 40# topshot on my 25nld2. I have 400 yds of 65# with a 50# topshot on my JX Raptor and Saltiga 40ld2. I have 300 yds of 50# with a 30# topshot on my SX Raptor and DX2-400. I try to go with at least 300 yds of capacity on all my reels. I've never (knock on wood) been spooled even when I got an 85# BFT on the dx2-400 with 30#.
You would need a Fathom or Torque 30 or the standard size Andros 12 to achieve that kind of capacity.
Lets back up just for minute... If your using 40 or even 50 with a short leader either the Penn 25N or the Andros 12N will hold plenty of line for most anything those reels should be used for.
Are you deep dropping bait ? What will be the main use for this reel ?
For live lining & casting stuff 300 plus yards of 60 braid with a 40 lb. leader will catch a lot of fish in open water. It would be a big help for those here if you would tell us what your after & a bit about where exactly you fish.
Charkbait spooled my Andros 12N with 335 yards of 80 braid. That Omega line winder they have is amazing how much line it can pack on a reel.
The Penns will hold 300 yards of mono based on their model number. The 25N 300 yards of 25 lb. 30 300 yards of 30 Mono. Plenty of conversion charts for mono to braid capacity on the internet.
The Fathom 25N will do fine with 40 lb. line. While it will fish 50 I no longer go above 40 on any of my 3 Fathoms. 50 lb. line begins to push these reels a bit. Now I'm talking star drag. This can change a bit going to a 2 speed lever. For money spent I believe one gets a lot more reel for their money with a 2 speed Fathom vs the Fathom Star drag. Gears are stainless & drag performance is noticeably better as you increase it... Jeff
I don't use 100 yds of mono on any of my spectra backed reels. On most I use a few feet. Even on my cow reels I just have 20' of fluoro tied to the spectra.
Yep 100 yards of topshot does seem like a lot - I typically only have a mono leader of maybe 10-15ft on everything from the 15lb rig to the 100lb one. This will change of course if you need the extra abrasion resistance if, say, the fish goes under the boat at the end of the fight; we only fish off smaller boats where we can easily manoeuvre the boat if required.
Of course my fishing is much different than your all's. I think about the length of my leader all the time. I pretty much use about 30 yards of mono on my heavier combos. This pretty much covers the max distance I'm willing to lob a 1/2 lb. or bigger live bait.
However there are pluses to using a shorter leader when current is involved. Always worry about getting cut off with braid so many rocks & stuff in the river. I guess even if I dont need to go this long it does give me confidence & willingness to put my baits where no sane person would cast... Jeff
Quote from: pitchinwedge on April 23, 2018, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: MarkT on April 23, 2018, 05:22:44 PM
I don't think a Fathom 25n would take 400 yds of 60# plus 100 yds of 40# mono.
Shucks, ok. Maybe 400yds + mono is just wishful thinking on these smaller reels.
What are you fishing for with 40 lb toppers that you need over 1/4 of a mile of line? For 95% of the fishing I do 300 yards is plenty.
I like long topshots and most of my reels have them. There are a several reasons why I fish them and I will list a few.
First most of my go to setups from 25 to 30 lb test play a dual role as live bait and surface iron rigs so I have a longer topshot than I can cast with the 8' rods I use for this. I also have a 40 lb 8' rod setup just for large surface iron, so a long topper on that setup as well.
My other 40 lb bait and yoyo setup also has a long topshot because of where I fish some locations/high spots have a sharp drop off and at times I will bet picked up by a fish only to have them dive back to their hidie hole or wrap structure before I have a chance to move them away. This can result in damage to the mono 5,10 or more yards up the line. I just cut out the damaged line and I'm good to go. I can do this several times before I need to change that topper.
I hate casting braid and I do a lot of casting. No matter how good of a caster you are sooner or later you will get a backlash, picking them out of braid is a pain and can damage the braid as well. Have you ever been picked up by hard charging fish while you are knuckle deep when picking out a backlash? I have several times and I hate to think what a marlin, sailfish, nice sized tuna or other fish could do ripping that braid through your fingers. I have had it done with mono and got burns and line cuts, with braid I'm sure it would be stitches at the very least.
I fish on party boats as well as private. When fishing party boats soon or later you WILL wrap another fish. This usually happens at the end game before deep color. It is much easier for me to see which way the lines are wrapped with mono and I can usually get them unwrapped before a deckhand can get there, giving both fish a better chance of meeting Mr. Gaff. This can damage the mono also but with a long topshot I cut it out and am good to go.
I like to fish lighter line and smaller hooks than a lot of deckhands recommend at the time. I also like to set my drags at the higher end for the line I'm using. For me having the stretch of a longer topper I feel plays a role in me not pulling many hooks.
On smaller baits like anchovies and such on my lighter setups I like long topshots because braid floats, making it harder I feel for your baits to be in the zone the freshest they can be. A smaller bait pulling a floating line to depth could wear it out before it is in the zone. Sure you could use a little weight here, so this may not be a big issue.
I know there is more than one way to skin a cat and you should use what works for you and I will do the same.
Gents, you all bring up good points about line capacity and Mr. SoCalAngler hit it on the head. 400yds + 100 topper is overzealous. But not my fault, the manufacturers made me do it! ;)
Back to my original point, the lack of an industry standard for reporting spool capacities is slightly annoying. I just want a better idea of the difference in line capacity between Okuma and Penn models. So even though 300yds+topper is enough for local party boats and 6-packs... based on the published specs, I thought for a moment the narrow reels might be able to do more.
Well, I decided to skip the heavier rig for now. Although it's a possibility, I'm thinking the odds are against me hooking into 100+lb jackpot winners on short party boat trips. So, 25# and 40# rigs should be good enough until proven otherwise.
Anyways, after handling them on the actual rods, I realized I prefer the smaller reels. Okuma, Avet, Shimano, sort of stand out to me in this regard vs Penn. Seeing and feeling makes a big difference. I definitely get some silly ideas with too much internet shopping.
You've come to the light ;D ...Jeff
Penn Fathom 15 for 25# and 25nld2 for 40# are small, strong and inexpensive. I usually use the 15/525 size for 20#, an Avet MXJ for 25# and the Fathom 25nld2 and Avet JX 6/3 for 40#. The Fathom would drag the Avet backwards until it drowned. The shiny blue Avet is prettier though.
What Mark said.
Probably no better reel for the money than the Penn Fathoms... Jeff
Quote from: MarkT on April 26, 2018, 12:38:19 AM
The Fathom would drag the Avet backwards until it drowned. The shiny blue Avet is prettier though.
Haha. Lovely description. I just might be the biggest sucker alive.
The FTH certainly look to be the best bang for buck. However, a good deal lured me into ordering a TRQ40NLD2. No deal on the 25N tho. So, as long as the darned thing ships as promised, I'm going with the gaudy TRQ25NLD2 for 40# and the 40N for 60#. Guess I just bought a third rig after all. :-\
Only thing left would be to decide on a reel for the 25#. A Penn 15 size star drag should work but I don't like the wide-ish spools. In case I haven't mentioned it before, form factor is a significant consideration. What do you fellas think about star drag vs lever drag vs 2-speed lever for the 25#? For star drags I'm eyeballin the Avet SX, Trinidad 12/14 and Saltiga 15. But the Talica 8 looks mighty fine, too. Thoughts?
I use the Avet MXJ for 25#. It's a little narrower and taller than the SX which is a form factor I prefer.. I use a Torium 16 star drag for 25# too. For jigging for Rockfish I use a Calcutta te300 with a 25# leader.
The standard Avet SXJ thru the MXL all have the same drags and will fish 25 lb fine, so if one of those reels fit you go for it. Like I said in a earlier post maybe check out the Fathom 12's for 25 lb. I have reels from many manufactures like Avet, Penn, Diawa, Progear and even a Shimano I still fish but this reel has a few mods making it hard to tell the manufacture.
I think you have done well in your choices so far so just get what feels right for you. To me some reels come and go, others I love and will never get rid of but a great rod will last you a lifetime. I have rods that I bought in the 80's and 90's that I still fish, some even older rods that I bought used that I will never let go. I know the 80's may not sound too old to some but I graduated high school in 83 and spent some of my hard earned money working as a box boy in HS on gear.
The reels are long gone from that time but many of those rods I still have and fish.
Edit: unless you have some physical limiting issues I personally see no need for a two speed in the 25 lb test range. I start to look at two speed reels in the 40 lb range and above but like I said get what you want.
If you can not see the pic well in my avatar of the YT I caught on my Fathom 25N star drag which is on one setup I use for 30 lb here you go. The reel as you may know has 6:1 gears and I was fishing the yoyo iron here in So Cal. The smallest fish is over 35 lbs and the larger I'd say just shy of 40. Look at the fish on the left of the pic, it was the smallest. Can you see the V shape just below it's chin? That's there because I had to wrestle that fish away from a 300 lb sealion. Even with the Fathom's 6:1 gears I had very good power.
Thanks again for sharing your insights, SoCalAngler. I certainly agree with you about fishing rods. As a golfer, I often feel the shaft of the golf club is the most important component. A good shaft always ends up staying with me. No reason for me to think it would be otherwise with fishing tackle.
Also agree about no need for 2speeds on a 25# setup. Most likely will go with star drag anyways. Simple, easier to handle, and better freespool. Yea, I think I'll swing by a tackle shop or two next if I can find some time. Best to handle them and compare side by side.
5/4 update: I took advantage of today's eBay coupon to finish acquiring my tools. This is what the final count looks like:
25# Trinidad 14A on RCE Mag
40# TRQ25NLD2 on RCE Monster
60# TRQ40NLD2 on RUS Predator
Need to decide now on how to string em up....
Thanks again everyone for the advice and guidance!