I have a Mariner 149 and a Master Mariner 349 that were my grandfather's (different grandfather than the Mitchell/Penn 9 guy). I am very comfortable with the Peerless and Longbeach series, so would these be much harder to pull apart and put back together? Any real problems I should watch out for? Being shore bound, I doubt I will actually use them, but I am curious about their innards and it would be nice to better preserve what's left of them. Thanks in advance!
Quote from: grekim on November 18, 2017, 07:23:41 PM
I have a Mariner 149 and a Master Mariner 349 that were my grandfather's (different grandfather than the Mitchell/Penn 9 guy). I am very comfortable with the Peerless and Longbeach series, so would these be much harder to pull apart and put back together? Any real problems I should watch out for? Being shore bound, I doubt I will actually use them, but I am curious about their innards and it would be nice to better preserve what's left of them. Thanks in advance!
No just go for it. If you run into trouble we are here for you. Dominick
Well, no excuse now. Thank you!
Quick question. Both have trolling wire. I'm not sure if it makes any sense to save any of it, but could it be transferred temporarily to a longbeach 68 or is that not so good for the 68?
Unless you are going to use it for deepwater salt-trolling -- I would just remove the wire and toss it away.
Restore the reel to as near new as you can -- if just a display piece leave line off -- if you are going to use it -- you can install new line of your choice at that time.
These are great reels -- but for most fishing conditions today -- their use is limited and specific -- deep water trolling or deep drops.
Guys like Lee, and a few others on our site are experts at restoring and modifying these well made tanks.
IMO, the order of quality and strength of these Mariners is:
149 -- weakest
49 -- stronger
349. -- strongest
There are many variations like the "H", Supers, and more -- but these are nice reels, and good for display, or to use -- if your fishing target works for this type of reel (salmon, halibut, etc)..
If you get stuck on anything -- let us know.
Plus post some pics of your progress.
Best,
Fred
Any old Penn reel without a level wind is doable. If something goes wrong you are in the right place. It's just a big Longbeach, only different.
The 149 and 349 are among the easiest reels to work on. However, be aware that parts for the 349 are very difficult to get; you can get most of what you might need for the 149. BTW: There was a fourth reel in this series, the 249. It was a knuckle buster with no drag or anti-reverse.
Quote from: akfish on November 18, 2017, 08:10:00 PM
BTW: There was a fourth reel in this series, the 249. It was a knuckle buster with no drag or anti-reverse.
And it's hard to understand how/why they sold so many of them for so many years.... but they are harder to find than any of the others in the series. I guess the popularity was based on the idea that it's hard to change people's behavior, and the old timers that grew up with knucklebusters just didn't want anything to do with those newfangled drags and anti-reverse contraptions.... I guess it says a lot about human nature.... Sorry, I'm away from my resources and can't look up how long the 249 was in production.....
Sid
Initial cost may have factored in, too, Sid.....$.50 doesn't seem like much, to us, but, in the 40's ?
Be REAL careful with the trim rings on the 349......if they crack about the only way to get a replacement is buy a donor reel.....Bill
Yes Bill - I know - still looking :(
Thanks for the info! The first challenge was getting the handle screw to turn. I got it, but it was a little ugly. I took care not to bend the handle. I'm glad you warned me about the rings. I left one on because it would not budge. The inside looks pretty good considering. The threads on the shaft for the main gear look bad, but the star drag seems to turn fine. The only things missing are one side screw and the handle lock screw. Unfortunately, there is a very small crack near the edge of one of the side plates. What do you guys do to prevent these from spreading?
Penn Master Mariner 349:
Put the side plate in the freezer overnight, that might shrink it enough to get the ring off.
Might try some epoxy for the crack, the trick would be getting it thin enough so a little gets in the crack, maybe a little heat to thin it a bit.
Here are most of the parts cleaned up with simple green and vinegar. The main gear and shaft are much improved. I actually couldn't get the main gear off until it soaked overnight.
Do you think these are "brake material"?
I can not really tell, if there are little white specks in them then yes, otherwise leather. With the reel in that condition, I would pull the gear sleeve also by punching out the gear sleeve pin, a 1/16" punch does the trick. Also the trim ring should come off also. As stated above a couple freeze, warm and freeze should loosen it. Might even soak the plate in vinegar for a couple hours to further break the corrosion bond. Use a razor blade between the ring edge and plate and carefully twist, just make sure the razor blade is inserted between the screw holes. I have found the common utility knife blade works well and the edge of the blade will chip and break before the ring is damaged. Change blades often. Bill
I need to pick up the 1/16" punch. I have been using an awl type of thing on Swiss Army knife. On some reels I've been able to remove the pin and others not (and this one is indeed stuck). However, it is turning very well.
I did get the ring off after the overnight soak.
I thought I read somewhere (here) that the HT-100's are not recommended with the brass washers? Looks like the steel washers are not available for this at Scott's.
Finally, the crack bothers me. It is probably too hard to get a picture. I am thinking of injecting some marine epoxy with a syringe.
Sears is the best place to get the punch. Lifetime garrantee. Get two to have a spare. I don't think epoxying the ring will do any good. The ring is still supported by the taper in the screw holes. Rudy
If the plate is cracked, they are common on ebay and fairly reasonable. I believe you can substitute Penn 113H drags and metals inthe 349, not an exact fit but work well. Keta is our resident expert on the 49 family (49, 149, 249, and 349) of reels . A picture of the crack may help us come up with a solution. Bill
Here's the crack. It would be hidden by the ring, so it's more of a structural concern, not cosmetic. Scott's has the plate for $11, but it is a different color, so getting two plates would be $26. I could probably pick up another reel for close to that.
Tough choice, no easy fix for that, ebay plates are going for about the same....If not fished hard no worries on the crack, and if a shelfie no worries either....on the otherhabd if you get a donor, you will have spare parts left over....Let us know what you decide.....Bill
Since I am a surf guy, I won't have much occasion to use this reel. But, it does hold memories...coming back from Port Jefferson and catching bluefish. So, I am going to assemble as is. In fact, having the original plates is kinda part of the whole nostalgia.
So, now I have a question because I was too quick to pull it apart. I have the drag assembled which is 3 brass washers and oldtime drag discs ;). Remaining are two tension washers and the heavy duty beveled collar. And the sleeve. All the other reels I've done have the tension washers on top of the last drag washer. Is that the case here?....so we go last brass drag washer -> 2 tension washers -> beveled collar -> sleeve -> star drag -> handle? And the last brass washer is holding the drag stack on the inside. Thanks!
Quote from: Bill B (Tarfu) on November 19, 2017, 09:41:12 PM
I can not really tell, if there are little white specks in them then yes, otherwise leather. With the reel in that condition, I would pull the gear sleeve also by punching out the gear sleeve pin, a 1/16" punch does the trick. Also the trim ring should come off also. As stated above a couple freeze, warm and freeze should loosen it. Might even soak the plate in vinegar for a couple hours to further break the corrosion bond. Use a razor blade between the ring edge and plate and carefully twist, just make sure the razor blade is inserted between the screw holes. I have found the common utility knife blade works well and the edge of the blade will chip and break before the ring is damaged. Change blades often. Bill
Picked up the 1/16" punch and got the pin out, yay! For something like the Penn 9/109 I guess a 1/32" is a better way to go.
Here is true schematic for that reel but I think you have it right. I would dio the same as your doing if your not going to fish the reel. Keep it original.
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/349.pdf (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/349.pdf)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
WooooHoooo we got another one over to the Darkside :P Good job brother. Now that it's serviced got to fish it once for the old man. Then shelf it and remember the good times. No need to change the plate for a nostalgia fishing trip.
BTW, here's a link to a DIY punch.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=22379.0
Thanks for the schematic link. I did see that before, but it shows a more modern design. Different drag and collar system than mine.
Bill...nice improvised punch there. If I had a drill press I would try it.
A few observations on this model:
First, I really like the heaviness and massiveness of it.
The dog setup is cool since the bridge has knobs that hold the dog and dog spring in place rather than being put on a bridge screw that you have to hold in place.
The ecliptic/clutch springs (there are two) are symmetrical. At first I grabbed the wrong one and it becomes obvious that one goes on one side and so forth.
The spool is simply solid as heck and rings like a bell.
I will post a final picture probably tomorrow. The spool is still doing a little more air drying. Whenever I finish a reel I want to take it fishing. I was walking into my local tackle shop every couple weeks with a new fixed up reel looking for line. The guy must think I am nuts (and rightly so).
Here we go....
I've now been working on the Mariner 149. I had it all put together and then noticed that the dog would slip rather than holding in place when you tried to reel backwards. I always check before even putting on more than 2 bridge screws if the dog is clicking into position. And it does do that, but will also easily slip. Seems like the problem is most likely the dog spring. I straightened it and put it back in, but there's no improvement. The dog looks fine and holds if I apply pressure. So, I guess I will order a new spring.
Without tearing mine apart to look, I would say that the spring only "puts the dog in place"...it doesn't "hold it there". I would suspect , either the end of the dog....or the teeth on the gear sleeve....are worn, so that when pressure is applied, the dog is forced "out" of the teeth, instead of "into" the teeth.
That could be. But, that's why I tested it by holding the dog in place and it didn't slip then. Next time I pull it apart I will post a picture of the gear and dog, but it looked okay to my amateur eye.
Could it be that you put the dog in backwards? Done it too many times myself...it will appear to hold but when in actual use it will slip.....Bill
Quote from: Bill B (Tarfu) on November 24, 2017, 05:35:13 PM
Could it be that you put the dog in backwards? Done it too many times myself...it will appear to hold but when in actual use it will slip.....Bill
That is something I would do, but I checked that. It should be that the spring is against the flat edge side of the dog, correct?
Quote from: grekim on November 20, 2017, 10:48:50 PM
Since I am a surf guy, I won't have much occasion to use this reel. But, it does hold memories...coming back from Port Jefferson and catching bluefish. So, I am going to assemble as is. In fact, having the original plates is kinda part of the whole nostalgia.
So, now I have a question because I was too quick to pull it apart. I have the drag assembled which is 3 brass washers and oldtime drag discs ;). Remaining are two tension washers and the heavy duty beveled collar. And the sleeve. All the other reels I've done have the tension washers on top of the last drag washer. Is that the case here?....so we go last brass drag washer -> 2 tension washers -> beveled collar -> sleeve -> star drag -> handle? And the last brass washer is holding the drag stack on the inside. Thanks!
According to the pen catalogs the sequence you have is incorrect it goes like this- the last brass drag washer -> beveled collar -> sleeve -> 2 tension washers -> star drag -> handle
Delrin washers under the sleeve and on top of the drag stack will improve smotthness ;)
Quote from: Vintage tackle man on November 30, 2017, 01:04:20 PM
Quote from: grekim on November 20, 2017, 10:48:50 PM
Since I am a surf guy, I won't have much occasion to use this reel. But, it does hold memories...coming back from Port Jefferson and catching bluefish. So, I am going to assemble as is. In fact, having the original plates is kinda part of the whole nostalgia.
So, now I have a question because I was too quick to pull it apart. I have the drag assembled which is 3 brass washers and oldtime drag discs ;). Remaining are two tension washers and the heavy duty beveled collar. And the sleeve. All the other reels I've done have the tension washers on top of the last drag washer. Is that the case here?....so we go last brass drag washer -> 2 tension washers -> beveled collar -> sleeve -> star drag -> handle? And the last brass washer is holding the drag stack on the inside. Thanks!
According to the pen catalogs the sequence you have is incorrect it goes like this- the last brass drag washer -> beveled collar -> sleeve -> 2 tension washers -> star drag -> handle
I'm sure it's brass drag washer.. bellville washer(cupped washer).. sleeve.. spring washer.. star wheel.. 2nd spring washer.. handle. Rudy
Quote from: Bill B (Tarfu) on November 19, 2017, 11:22:15 PM
If the plate is cracked, they are common on ebay and fairly reasonable. I believe you can substitute Penn 113H drags and metals inthe 349, not an exact fit but work well. Keta is our resident expert on the 49 family (49, 149, 249, and 349) of reels . A picture of the crack may help us come up with a solution. Bill
I am sorry I missed this thread but I have been having so much fun with my new pet kidnestone.
113H CF washers are undersize for the "H" reels but will work if double stacked. Smooth drag has a 5 washer upgrade but for a reel that is not going to be fished much it might not be worth he $.
Quote from: RowdyW on November 30, 2017, 02:25:06 PM
Quote from: Vintage tackle man on November 30, 2017, 01:04:20 PM
Quote from: grekim on November 20, 2017, 10:48:50 PM
Since I am a surf guy, I won't have much occasion to use this reel. But, it does hold memories...coming back from Port Jefferson and catching bluefish. So, I am going to assemble as is. In fact, having the original plates is kinda part of the whole nostalgia.
So, now I have a question because I was too quick to pull it apart. I have the drag assembled which is 3 brass washers and oldtime drag discs ;). Remaining are two tension washers and the heavy duty beveled collar. And the sleeve. All the other reels I've done have the tension washers on top of the last drag washer. Is that the case here?....so we go last brass drag washer -> 2 tension washers -> beveled collar -> sleeve -> star drag -> handle? And the last brass washer is holding the drag stack on the inside. Thanks!
According to the pen catalogs the sequence you have is incorrect it goes like this- the last brass drag washer -> beveled collar -> sleeve -> 2 tension washers -> star drag -> handle
I'm sure it's brass drag washer.. bellville washer(cupped washer).. sleeve.. spring washer.. star wheel.. 2nd spring washer.. handle. Rudy
Here's out of a catalog
Okay, thanks very much guys. I hadn't seen that manual. Consensus is that the Belville washer is against the last drag. That makes sense in both distributing force evenly to the drag washer and for making a tighter seel to the outside environment. I'm trying Sal's way with the spring washers apart...I just like the idea better.
Back to the 149 and the slipping dog....
I finally got the new dog spring, put it in and there was no improvement....as you guys predicted....should have listened. I don't know why I didn't order a new dog too. Anyway, for the heck of it I flipped the dog around and it holds. But, this is not the way it looks in the manual. So, the way it is currently holding is with the spring against the curved/indented edge the dog. Next time I will try a new dog.
Great job!
I just found a 149 of my late grandpa's that I'm going to rebuild for my dad for father's day.
This thread is just what I needed. :)
If you need any parts for the 149 Chad holler, I'll add it to the rest. Hoping to see you towards the end of the week. Sheridan
Quote from: Swami805 on June 10, 2018, 12:16:47 PM
If you need any parts for the 149 Chad holler, I'll add it to the rest. Hoping to see you towards the end of the week. Sheridan
Thanks Sheridan!
I'm going to pull it apart tonight, but I know for sure I'll need a new bridge. I can tell the post has come loose.
I'll text you so I don't muddle up Grekim's thread.
Quote from: xjchad on June 10, 2018, 06:33:36 AM
Great job!
I just found a 149 of my late grandpa's that I'm going to rebuild for my dad for father's day.
This thread is just what I needed. :)
Really? I read through this thread thinkin some day, I'mna get onea the 49 series models, but came away kinda confused. Differing opinions make fora informative, interesting read, but this is the "Beginners Board". What can add to the confusion for me is using diffrent, subjective terminology to describe the same parts. Perhaps a peroid correct catalog for your particular reel is the best way to see something, like how drag stack and other gear sleeve parts are arranged.
I used to be bad about tossin my boxes which add to the resale value, but I been pretty good about keepin my manuals, though storin and retriveing paperwork can bea pain.
Post a pic of the crack.
My Grandpa fished a 349 with epoxied together side plates for years with no problems.
Let's see what you have......
Quote from: theswimmer on July 05, 2018, 10:50:45 PM
Post a pic of the crack.
My Grandpa fished a 349 with epoxied together side plates for years with no problems.
Let's see what you have......
See reply #18 for the picture. Thanks!