I have a Penn 4/0 special senator that is used primarily for bottom fishing for grouper, with the drag locked down as tight as it will go. There is quite a bit of play in the handle (compared to another 4/0 that I just purchased).
I'm not sure if I'm using the terms correctly, but I would say that the handle still fits tightly on the sleeve, but the sleeve is a bit loose on the bridge. It has rotational & axial play. The axial play is most notable, compared to the other reel.
Should I replace the bridge & sleeve? Or do I just need to put a thicker washer under the main gear?
Thanks in advance.
-Bryan
I have a 113h that had the same problem, in place of the fiber washer,I used a ht-100 6-875 washer behind the main gear. A trick that I learned from alan's posts.
After I put the reel back together it turned rough until I cranked down the star a few times. now it has very little play. I hope this helps.
Richie
Are you talking about the gear sleeve moving back and forth or the handle itself wobbling around when you have the star cranked down?
The gear sleeve moves in & out and also has a bit more rotational "slop" than I would like. The handle fits tightly on the sleeve.
you're going to have some slop in the gear sleeve and some play (gear lash) between the teeth of the main and pinion gears. shim the gear sleeve. there's nothing you can do about the gears......... :-\
What do you shim the gear sleeve with? Metal or drag washer material?
Bryan,
I'm not a guru like the rest of 'em on here, but I shimmed mine (on my penn 113hsp's 4/0) with a smooth drag, carbontex washer that came with the pack I ordered. Others use a (#6-875) from Penn's HT-100 drags. Mine has been on for one year on two of my reels, and they work fine so far. Metal on metal=No Good. Thanks
Dom
Actually, in a case like this, I think you want to shim with a very thin metal washer. Note that the gear sleeve and bridge are already metal on metal.
Akfish,
That surprises me! I thought I saw Alan recommend the #6-875? Wouldn't it be smoother with the carbontex or even plastic?
Would it negatively effect the reel? Thanks
Dom
Bryan,
I would listen to Akfish, he's one of the guru's I was talkin' about...keep us posted, please. Thanks
Dom
actually, accurate has a bunch of teflon washers that would be perfect for this application. we just have to find a way to get you some. alan
It sounds like you'll be actually shimming under the gear sleeve, not the main gear itself. For this application, you want a Teflon washer and not a fiber washer like goes under the main gear. I believe Avet or Accurate has a washer that will work.
Evan
Edit: Wow, just noticed that Alan pegged your answer before I got to it.
Hey Richie and Dom,
I think you are talking about the washer between the main gear and the gear sleeve - not between the bottom of the gear sleeve and the bridge. I doubt you would get a carbontex or HT 100 washer in there, regardless of the wear. If you were following Alan's suggestions for using an extra drag washer instead of the fibre washer, that's not what Bryan is talking about.
akfish is right to say that metal on metal would be OK when shimming a gear sleeve - my feeling is that a brass or smooth polished stainless shimming washer would do fine in this situation, if it's outside diameter were not too small - maybe the same as the inner diameter of the teeth in the gear on the gear sleeve. There is very little if any pressure pushing the gear sleeve into the bridge in normal use.
But Alan's suggestion (as usual!) for using teflon is much better.
Bryan, I guess you'd need to estimate or measure how thick it'd need to be, so the correct thickness could be selected - got any feeler gauges?
Simon.
Edit:
Oops, Evan, you got to it before I did too...
Sorry!
Have you considered spending the 12 bucks on a new bridge? ???
Hmmm.
$3 teflon washer vs $12 bridge?
You tell me.
Simon
Ahh! I see what you mean, now. I misunderstood the question. Sorry if I confused anyone with my comments. I do appreciate the knowledge you guys are passing on. Would a delrin washer work? I think I have some sitting around...how big should it be: I.D. and O.D. Thanks
Dom
Delrin, sure. Teflon, as Alan suggested better.
OD - the size of the inside of the teeth on the gear sleeve. Don't want the dog getting hung up on it. ID - just measure the shaft on the bridge.
Simon.
Quote from: slgriffiths on March 31, 2010, 04:25:06 PM
Hmmm.
$3 teflon washer vs $12 bridge?
You tell me.
Simon
Simon, Were you picked on too much as a kid?
Thanks Simon I'll give it a shot when the time comes-hope never:) I will check to see if my washers will work, if so you guys will be the first to know. Thanks
Dom
Had a similar problem with a 113H some time ago with excess lateral movement in handle. Problem was a rusty gear sleeve retaining pin on the bridge assembly. Punched the old worn and rusty pin out and replaced it with a stainless steel one cut from a bicycle spoke, 2mm/ (0.08in)/(14SWG) dia. Did the trick by taking up most of the slack without shimming.
Richie,
Sorry if it came over as offensive. Not the way to go on this board.
Let me put it another way.
In these days of financial constraint, a $3 dollar washer may be a better idea than spending $12 on a new bridge plate and gear sleeve, although that would certainly fix the problem, very definitely.
And Irish, you are right as well. A corroded/worn pin would result in an increased level of axial play.
Never easy, is it Bryan? Drift the pin out and check it - it may be that easy.
Simon.
Alright, I just shimmed my buddy's gear sleeve. I put on a delrin washer. I'll keep you guys posted on how well delrin does instead of teflon. Thanks
Dom
I thought this thread had died over a week ago. Didn't know it came back.
Richie - if you read my initial post, you would see that I did in fact consider replacing the bridge & sleeve. It is $19 for the assembly, though, not $12.
I was also asking about rotational slop, which Alan informed me is due to gear lash. It sounds like the only way to correct that is to replace the gears, and I don't think the problem is bad enough to warrant that (at least not yet). This reel doesn't get used much, and I can live with both of the issues as is, but if there is a simple way to improve it, I would like to do it.
So where can I find teflon or delrin washers in the right size? I need to order some drag washers for a 114h and maybe a couple other items from mysticparts.com. Do they have any washers that will work for this?
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Hey Bryan,
You can get washers in both delrin and ptfe (teflon) from McMaster-Carr. I think they only sell them by the bag, but they're not that expensive anyway. Hope it helps. If they don't have what you want let me know and I'll find them for ya (definitely have them bookmarked somewhere. Thanks
Dom
And if you play around on eBay, try searching for Rubberman7 - he makes up about everything you could ever want, and will do one-offs. Maybe a little cheaper.
As I mentioned in a previous posting, measure up what you think you need, and ask him to do it. Remember I was talking about feeler gauges? Well, he (and you!) needs to know how thick the teflon sheet should be.
The other dimensions I told you about in that posting. I don't have a 113H in pieces at the moment, or I would measure them up and give you the dimensions. If you can't do it, ask me - I'll send you the sizes you need.
Measure it up, and ask him.
Don't forget to check out Accurate as Alan suggested - he has a lot more experience with this kind of thing than all of us put together!
Did you try checking out the gear sleeve pin, as Irish Jigger suggested? That may be at least half a mil of play, if it's worn or corroded. Worth a try.
Simon