I am seriously considering buying a Clash,but on Alan Hawks review,there were line roller issues right out of the box. I also saw another review on YouTube where there was line roller trouble....So I am a bit concerned...The rest of the construction looks quite good..so anyone else here experiencing line roller issues? And if so,,is it something that can be easily remedied or is it going to be annoying?
Also,,I looked at the reel in a shop recently, a 3000 & 4000 size,,one felt quite smooth,and the other felt sluggish,,display case models..Why would there be a noticeable difference?
I have a 5000, my go to reel. It cast a mile and is quite smooth even after being dunked off my kayak. The only issue I have had was if you fill it full of line, to the outer most ring, I got wind knots every few cast. I now have it 2/3-3/4 full and have not had any further issues. Solid reel for me in the almost two years I have fished it.
The battles and conflicts have the same issue with wind knots when the spool is full. I'm not exactly sure why it happens but I think it has to do with the shape of the spool.
I have generally found that filling any spinner right to the edge of the spool will cause 'wind knots'. 1/8 to 3/16", 3-4mm from the curved edge of the spool usually solves the problem. I have always considered that when the spool is filled right up the line will literally fall off the spool faster than its being pulled.
Clash is an outstanding reel. Penn has sold thousands and thousands without this line roller issue "Alan Hawk" imagines. Just ask Penn yourself with a post in their forum.
Extremely light for the line capacity and very tough machined gears. Love every one I have fished from 4k-6k.
People that fill reels to the brim don't know how to spool a spinning reel. That's why Shimano bends the lip back so you can't overfill and Penn puts marks on the spool to tell you when enough is enough.
Alan H. Performs a great service for those of us who like HD spinners.
He very thoughtfully disassembles each reel for his reviews -- fishes them hard -- dissassembles again -- looking for any issues -- meticulously reports his findings, good, bad, or even issues that won't generally matter in the real world.
He is independent, purchases his own equipment, has many contacts within the industry -- and I trust him.
He is like the Consumer Reports or Cnet of the angling world when it comes to spinners, manufacturer marketing claims, and performance on the water.
Having said that -- we should also make our own evaluations -- and Alan Hawk even tells us to do this.
He is a discerning and knowledgeable critic when it comes to spinners.
And his mission is to find the weak spots in HD salt spinners.
So it is like the old saying -- "when you are a hammer, every problem is a nail".
IMO, the Clash is an outstanding reel line -- no hesitations on my part for fishing or recommending one.
Best,
Fred
On the modern Penns that I own, you literally need to have the spool 3/4 full or less or you get wind knots after a few casts. I fish multiple days a week. I never fill my reels to the brim. Never seen that before from another another manufacturer
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 09, 2017, 03:54:56 PM
Clash is an outstanding reel. Penn has sold thousands and thousands without this line roller issue "Alan Hawk" imagines. Just ask Penn yourself with a post in their forum.
Extremely light for the line capacity and very tough machined gears. Love every one I have fished from 4k-6k.
People that fill reels to the brim don't know how to spool a spinning reel. That's why Shimano bends the lip back so you can't overfill and Penn puts marks on the spool to tell you when enough is enough.
He imagines? There's pictures of the gap and the wear,,,why do you say that?
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on November 09, 2017, 06:41:23 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 09, 2017, 03:54:56 PM
Clash is an outstanding reel. Penn has sold thousands and thousands without this line roller issue "Alan Hawk" imagines. Just ask Penn yourself with a post in their forum.
Extremely light for the line capacity and very tough machined gears. Love every one I have fished from 4k-6k.
People that fill reels to the brim don't know how to spool a spinning reel. That's why Shimano bends the lip back so you can't overfill and Penn puts marks on the spool to tell you when enough is enough.
He imagines? There’s pictures of the gap and the wear,,,why do you say that?
Because thousands and thousands of them have been sold without a single issue.
Anyone can identify small issues with one budget reel in their hand. That often has little to do with thousands and thousands sold in something like 9 different sizes.
I spoke at length with Penn about this. They simply never see any trouble with the design and also thousands of guys are stoked on the reel. I think they added a plastic lock washer to protect the finish when its over-tightened like AH did and are done.
Who's right?
The guys selling thousands and thousands of reels and seeing no returns or complaints or a blogger with a sample of one?
"a blogger with a sample of one?"
I agree John. People who tear down a brand new reel, take lots of pictures and then tell us what they think about it are wasting our time. ;)
The only meaningful test is the test of time. Use it hard until it breaks, fix it, and use it hard until it breaks again. When you get to about two hundred thousand miles (in car years) you'll know if it is any good.
-steve
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 09, 2017, 07:58:28 PM
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on November 09, 2017, 06:41:23 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 09, 2017, 03:54:56 PM
Clash is an outstanding reel. Penn has sold thousands and thousands without this line roller issue "Alan Hawk" imagines. Just ask Penn yourself with a post in their forum.
Extremely light for the line capacity and very tough machined gears. Love every one I have fished from 4k-6k.
People that fill reels to the brim don't know how to spool a spinning reel. That's why Shimano bends the lip back so you can't overfill and Penn puts marks on the spool to tell you when enough is enough.
Ok that's a good answer,I'll order one.
He imagines? There's pictures of the gap and the wear,,,why do you say that?
Because thousands and thousands of them have been sold without a single issue.
Anyone can identify small issues with one budget reel in their hand. That usually has little to do with thousands and thousands sold in something like 9 different sizes.
I spoke at length with Penn about this. They simply never see any trouble with the design and yet thousands of guys are stoked on the reel. I think they added a plastic lock washer to protect the finish when its over-tightened like AH did and are done.
Who's right?
The guys selling thousands and thousands of reels and seeing no returns or complaints or a blogger with a sample of one?
Quote from: oc1 on November 09, 2017, 09:43:48 PM
"a blogger with a sample of one?"
I agree John. People who tear down a brand new reel, take lots of pictures and then tell us what they think about it are wasting our time. ;)
The only meaningful test is the test of time. Use it hard until it breaks, fix it, and use it hard until it breaks again. When you get to about two hundred thousand miles (in car years) you'll know if it is any good.
-steve
Yes, and that is precisely correct.
When I tear down a reel I **always** offer the caveat for good or ill that anything I see has to be tested by **thousands** of guys before anything is truly known. That is what all the manufacturers have to do themselves when they introduce a new reel. All early adopters are "beta testers".
My beef with "AH": is when he gets one Fin Nor Lethal 100 he proclaims it the greatest ever for $100...then we see the handles breaking, bails coming apart and stems snapping with modest fish on....but not one word of correction from the guy. It should have been black-listed until the faults were corrected.
He over tightens a nut and mars his finish and its all Penn's fault he has a squeaky line roller = Clash is junk to him???
A squeaky line roller (deal breaker to AH) versus snapped stems and busted handles (best budget reel evar).....hrm?
In AH's defense he gives us what I think is his honest opinion (right or wrong) of the reel in his hand....but the trouble is when that is extrapolated to THOUSANDS produced in many different sizes and they are fished far harder than any tests of his...and it is not remotely the same thing.
I also lean on Handi2 and guys like that because they service everyone's reels (ie Penn, Daiwa, Shimano et al)...there is a big disconnect between the reality of regular use and any sort of autopsy of a barely fished reel. Keith always was a big fan of the old Saltist (best budget high speed spinner) because they simply worked in capable hands (literally the go to world wide for budget popping). AH refused to even review it....
AH also got the capacities for the weight completely wrong on the Clash as detailed in this post:
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/661741-spool-capacities-of-clash-4k-5k-6k-and-8k-surprising-results/
AH called the Clash a "heavy reel" when in fact it is substantially lighter for its capacity than any other saltwater spinner (ie baring magnesium framed tiny freshwater reels). On the spot he invents a standard of comparing different reels by drag spec as a basis of weight comparison rather than capacity...which is nonsense and never done as it simply makes no sense. You don't compare the weights of a small reel to a large one because they make the same drag. You compare weights based on line capacity. It would be like comparing an 18K Spheros to a 5K Stella and complaining the Spheros is heavier because they make the same drag? Who would do this? Apples to apples you compare reel weights based on capacity (ie physical size). Drag is a separate criteria.
Its either a glaring error or an intentional misrepresentation. Again, no retraction...
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 09, 2017, 10:51:44 PM
Quote from: oc1 on November 09, 2017, 09:43:48 PM
"a blogger with a sample of one?"
I agree John. People who tear down a brand new reel, take lots of pictures and then tell us what they think about it are wasting our time. ;)
The only meaningful test is the test of time. Use it hard until it breaks, fix it, and use it hard until it breaks again. When you get to about two hundred thousand miles (in car years) you'll know if it is any good.
-steve
I think I will order one based on what John says.
Yes, and that is precisely correct.
When I tear down a reel I **always** offer the caveat for good or ill that anything I see has to be tested by **thousands** of guys before anything is truly known. That is what all the manufacturers have to do themselves when they introduce a new reel. All early adopters are "beta testers".
My beef with "AH": is when he gets one Fin Nor Lethal 100 he proclaims it the greatest ever for $100...then we see the handles breaking, bails coming apart and stems snapping with modest fish on....but not one word of correction from the guy. It should have been black-listed until the faults were corrected.
He over tightens a nut and mars his finish and its all Penn's fault he has a squeaky line roller = Clash is junk to him???
A squeaky line roller (deal breaker to AH) versus snapped stems and busted handles (best budget reel evar).....hrm?
In AH's defense he gives us what I think is his honest opinion (right or wrong) of the reel in his hand....but the trouble is when that is extrapolated to THOUSANDS produced and fished far harder than any tests of his...and it is not remotely the same thing.
I also lean on Handi2 and guys like that because they service everyone's reels (ie Penn, Daiwa, Shimano et al)...there is a big disconnect between the reality of regular use and any sort of autopsy of a barely fished reel. Keith always was a big fan of the old Saltist (best budget high speed spinner) because they simply worked in capable hands (literally the go to world wide for budget popping). AH refused to even review it....
AH also got the capacities for the weight completely wrong on the Clash as detailed in this post:
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/661741-spool-capacities-of-clash-4k-5k-6k-and-8k-surprising-results/
I am going to buy one based on your opinions..
Its an excellent reel! You wont be disappointed.
...............Lou
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on November 10, 2017, 02:26:56 AM
I am going to buy one based on your opinions..
What I would add at last is that as well, AH reviewed the 8k size (very large reel) that is really outside the "wheelhouse" for the fundamental design at least for deep jigging.
The Clash is an ultralight saltwater spinner with beef in all the right places for light tackle tossing of artificials and casting all day but a lower geared reel like the Spheros is better for jigging. Once you get to the 8k size (~500 yards of 65# braid) beefier framed reels (ie Slammer III or Saragosa) are really in order for that class of fish. The Clash 8k is more of a bait and weight reel to be spooled with mono or one for casting lighter lures to smaller models....not moving deep jigs against current for fish that need 500 yards of braid...imo.
And the smaller sizes 4k-5k-6k are perfect for casting small lures all day long and a far tougher reel than a Stradic FK with more capacity for the weight than even that excellent reel. In these small to medium size reels it gives anything a run for the money.
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 11, 2017, 05:34:43 PM
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on November 10, 2017, 02:26:56 AM
I am going to buy one based on your opinions..
What I would add at last is that as well, AH reviewed the 8k size (very large reel) that is really outside the "wheelhouse" for the fundamental design at least for deep jigging.
The Clash is an ultralight saltwater spinner with beef in all the right places for light tackle tossing of artificials and casting all day. Once you get to the 8k size (~500 yards of 65# braid) beefier reels (ie Slammer III or Saragosa) are really in order for that class of fish. The Clash 8k is more of a bait and weight reel to be spooled with mono or one for casting lighter lures to smaller models....not moving deep jigs against current for fish that need 500 yards of braid...imo.
And the smaller sizes 4k-5k-6k are perfect for casting small lures all day long and a far tougher reel than a Stradic FK with more capacity for the weight than even that excellent reel. In these small to medium size reels it gives anything a run for the money.
Well I have a 9ft Ron Arra for the back bays...I currently have my Daiwa Advantage 4000 on it..but I figured I'd get a Clash for it.. I know Daiwas spools were always larger that Penn and Shimano..so I don't know if a 4000 size Clash is a good replacement or not,,,any thoughts?
Clash 4000 holds ~300 yards of 20# power pro (37# breaking strength). Probably perfect for a back bay rod (I assume its a light build).
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 12, 2017, 01:05:12 AM
Clash 4000 holds ~300 yards of 20# power pro (37# breaking strength). Probably perfect for a back bay rod (I assume its a light build).
Well yes the Arras are lighter walled ,,although it is a factory build one piece if that matters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRCGfaogeLs
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 12, 2017, 01:44:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRCGfaogeLs
Yes I've seen all Skinners vids..but I know he has that 4000 on a 7 or 7 1/2 footer not a 9,,am I wrong?
Yea, its on a shorter rod than yours so you might consider a 5k...but it has way more capacity than you need (4k holds 300 yards of braid that breaks at 37#...that will land anything in any bay in North America)...Buy from a good retailer and return and exchange if you don't like the balance.
Pretty hard to make a rec when its gonna come down to personal preference.
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 09, 2017, 10:51:44 PM
Keith always was a big fan of the old Saltist (best budget high speed spinner) because they simply worked in capable hands (literally the go to world wide for budget popping). AH refused to even review it....
I am afraid that you have struck a nerve here John.
My opinion of this reel echoes that of Alan Hawke with emphasis to the extent that I quoted him in my review:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/KimberleyRodandReel/permalink/937384059676007/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/KimberleyRodandReel/permalink/937384059676007/)
If the old Saltist was so good Daiwa would not have abandoned the original design and substituted a dressed-up current generation BG reel and called it a Saltist.
QuoteNew Release Daiwa Saltist Spin 2016 Preview:
This was unexpected given the release of the Nero clone earlier last year but yep, Daiwa have done it again; resurrecting the reel I just love to hate. But wait, there's more!
They finally abandoned the horrendous Handle / maingear combination that produced so many shattered gears and was a technician's worst nightmare to disassemble. Rumor has it that it has been replaced by a more robust standard design. As I said before, anything would be an improvement! It is still manufactured from zinc alloy but apparently heavier construction and hopefully stronger. Unfortunately Daiwa has also dropped the high speed gear ratio which for many anglers was the main attraction for this reel.
The pot luck flimsy Delrin bushes in the bail roller have now been replaced by a regular bearing with mag-seal shields and the pinion bearing also is shielded by a mag seal. There is still plenty of healthy online debate about the practicality and reliability of this technology and as my exposure is rather limited, I really cannot offer an informed opinion based on personal experience at this point in time.
But just when it seemed Daiwa was doing so well we still find that same weak composite "air bail" wire adorning this new revision. Given it's fragile construction and daunting expense, I really think that Daiwa should supply an ex-gratis spare in the box of every new purchase.
But despite this one lingering fault, I welcome this new revision with open arms because it will mean an end to my worst nightmare of trying to extract a hammered flared maingear shaft through an inner bearing race whilst still assembled in the gearbox.
How Daiwa techs dealt with this I will never know! Perhaps they just drilled it out and replaced the maingear.
Hey! There you go :)
~
Quote from: exp2000 on November 12, 2017, 06:15:18 AM
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 09, 2017, 10:51:44 PM
Keith always was a big fan of the old Saltist (best budget high speed spinner) because they simply worked in capable hands (literally the go to world wide for budget popping). AH refused to even review it....
I am afraid that you have struck a nerve here John.
My opinion of this reel echoes that of Alan Hawke with emphasis to the extent that I quoted him in my review:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/KimberleyRodandReel/permalink/937384059676007/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/KimberleyRodandReel/permalink/937384059676007/)
If the old Saltist was so good Daiwa would not have abandoned the original design and substituted a dressed-up current generation BG reel and called it a Saltist.
I'm confused,what does that have to do with the Clash?
QuoteNew Release Daiwa Saltist Spin 2016 Preview:
This was unexpected given the release of the Nero clone earlier last year but yep, Daiwa have done it again; resurrecting the reel I just love to hate. But wait, there's more!
They finally abandoned the horrendous Handle / maingear combination that produced so many shattered gears and was a technician's worst nightmare to disassemble. Rumor has it that it has been replaced by a more robust standard design. As I said before, anything would be an improvement! It is still manufactured from zinc alloy but apparently heavier construction and hopefully stronger. Unfortunately Daiwa has also dropped the high speed gear ratio which for many anglers was the main attraction for this reel.
The pot luck flimsy Delrin bushes in the bail roller have now been replaced by a regular bearing with mag-seal shields and the pinion bearing also is shielded by a mag seal. There is still plenty of healthy online debate about the practicality and reliability of this technology and as my exposure is rather limited, I really cannot offer an informed opinion based on personal experience at this point in time.
But just when it seemed Daiwa was doing so well we still find that same weak composite "air bail" wire adorning this new revision. Given it's fragile construction and daunting expense, I really think that Daiwa should supply an ex-gratis spare in the box of every new purchase.
But despite this one lingering fault, I welcome this new revision with open arms because it will mean an end to my worst nightmare of trying to extract a hammered flared maingear shaft through an inner bearing race whilst still assembled in the gearbox.
How Daiwa techs dealt with this I will never know! Perhaps they just drilled it out and replaced the maingear.
Hey! There you go :)
~
Quote from: exp2000 on November 12, 2017, 06:15:18 AM
I am afraid that you have struck a nerve here John.
My opinion of this reel echoes that of Alan Hawke with emphasis to the extent that I quoted him in my review:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/KimberleyRodandReel/permalink/937384059676007/
If the old Saltist was so good Daiwa would not have abandoned the original design and substituted a dressed-up current generation BG reel and called it a Saltist.
You mistake me. :)
The point is not that the old Saltist was so good.
The point is that it was the only game in town for a budget high speed reel that caught lots of big fish and it (with proper maintenance and care during use) was entirely up to its task.
Conversely, some on here think the new Daiwa BG is junk, with the rotor hitting the spool in some models and the supposedly great bearings rusting right away due to inadequate (ie none) sealing etc. despite AH calling it the greatest.
This is a case of:
1. Any real flaws in a reel take many users, using many sizes of the reels, and conditions to be revealed (Daiwa BG jury still out).
2. When people know a reel's limitations and know how to use it despite them (ie Saltist) they may have a unique need (for speed and capacity) that makes the reel the cat's meow for their purpose.
The (old) Saltist was the go to reel for hundreds of guys for Rooster fishing in Mexico because they could find nothing better for the purpose for the money.
In the specific case of the Clash, AH reviewed one of the least popular sizes whereas the reel **excels** for ultralight uses in the smaller sizes. Nothing better for the money, imo, and as above John Skinner caught 200 False Albacore in a single month with one etc.
Who's right? The guys catching thousands of fish or when one persons tries to dissemble the reel with personal preferences not met?
best
Excuse me for going somewhat off-topic, but, are the Abu Revo 2 SW's essentially the same as the Clash?
Jack
Quote from: natch! on November 12, 2017, 06:47:06 PM
Excuse me for going somewhat off-topic, but, are the Abu Revo 2 SW's essentially the same as the Clash?
Jack
Yes and no. They use a similar (dimensions likely differ) machined aluminum gear for the guts.
However, the frame and side-plate arrangement is very different plus other details (ie spool design etc).
Very good light reels for near shore applications.
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 12, 2017, 07:04:27 PM
Quote from: natch! on November 12, 2017, 06:47:06 PM
Excuse me for going somewhat off-topic, but, are the Abu Revo 2 SW's essentially the same as the Clash?
Jack
Yes and no. They use a similar (dimensions likely differ) machined aluminum gear for the guts.
However, the frame and side-plate arrangement is very different plus other details (ie spool design etc).
Very good light reels for near shore applications.
John can I ask you to compare the Slammer to the Saragosa for surf casting work?
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on November 16, 2017, 03:40:43 AM
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 12, 2017, 07:04:27 PM
Quote from: natch! on November 12, 2017, 06:47:06 PM
Excuse me for going somewhat off-topic, but, are the Abu Revo 2 SW's essentially the same as the Clash?
Jack
Yes and no. They use a similar (dimensions likely differ) machined aluminum gear for the guts.
However, the frame and side-plate arrangement is very different plus other details (ie spool design etc).
Very good light reels for near shore applications.
John can I ask you to compare the Slammer to the Saragosa for surf casting work?
Slammer III v. Spheros (no need to get a Saragosa for the Surf) a Slammer is a beefier and tougher reel, imo. Far more capable with more drag and tougher gears....but that doesn't necessarily make it a better surf reel, unless fishing for Roosters or other Jacks that pull like hell. Slammer III is a reel to fight real bruisers with.
Spheros however is very, very good for the coin, very smooth and refined and I can't hesitate to recommend it. But it just doesn't have the nuts of the Slammer III on big fish. But that really isn't a big deal until south of the border or maybe Florida etc for Tarpon. Nothing in northern waters can really hurt a Spheros until well offshore.
FWIW Clash is a different kettle of fish altogether. Much lighter build than either and not as sealed. Better for casting all day if it meets your sealing needs. Clash top of the pinion assembly is sealed (most problematic area for splashes) but the body has no sealing.
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 16, 2017, 03:53:10 AM
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on November 16, 2017, 03:40:43 AM
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 12, 2017, 07:04:27 PM
Quote from: natch! on November 12, 2017, 06:47:06 PM
Excuse me for going somewhat off-topic, but, are the Abu Revo 2 SW's essentially the same as the Clash?
Jack
Yes and no. They use a similar (dimensions likely differ) machined aluminum gear for the guts.
However, the frame and side-plate arrangement is very different plus other details (ie spool design etc).
Very good light reels for near shore applications.
John can I ask you to compare the Slammer to the Saragosa for surf casting work?
Slammer III v. Spheros (no need to get a Saragosa for the Surf) a Slammer is a beefier and tougher reel, imo. Far more capable with more drag and tougher gears....but that doesn't necessarily make it a better surf reel, unless fishing for Roosters or other Jacks that pull like hell. Slammer III is a reel to fight real bruisers with.
Spheros however is very, very good for the coin, very smooth and refined and I can't hesitate to recommend it. But it just doesn't have the nuts of the Slammer III on big fish. But that really isn't a big deal until south of the border or maybe Florida etc for Tarpon. Nothing in northern waters can really hurt a Spheros until well offshore.
FWIW Clash is a different kettle of fish altogether. Much lighter build than either and not as sealed. Better for casting all day if it meets your sealing needs. Clash top of the pinion assembly is sealed (most problematic area for splashes) but the body has no sealing.
The Spheros is just too heavy...I throw lures exclusively,which is why I was asking about the Saragosa..no way am I buying a Spheros. I deal with Stripers and Blues here in the Northeast..I'd like the reel to be lighter of course,but if the Saragosa can't handle the waves and white waters of the Atlantic then I have to choose the Slammer. The Clash I will get in the spring for Fluke and Spring Stripers.
Spheros and Saragosa are basically the same weight with less than an ounce difference in the 10k size.
Quote from: MarkT on November 16, 2017, 04:16:37 AM
Spheros and Saragosa are basically the same weight with less than an ounce difference in the 10k size.
Sorry, I mixed up reels I guess..
Quote from: MarkT on November 16, 2017, 04:16:37 AM
Spheros and Saragosa are basically the same weight with less than an ounce difference in the 10k size.
I don't like bringing up AH here,but he claims the Spheros he reviewed was 5oz heavier than advertised. So If this is true, I wonder about the smaller ones.
I thinks the weights are correct on the Shimano US site. Which one are you looking at? I have the Saragosa 10k but I don't use it from the beach.
Quote from: MarkT on November 16, 2017, 03:12:51 PM
I thinks the weights are correct on the Shimano US site. Which one are you looking at? I have the Saragosa 10k but I don't use it from the beach.
Probably a 6000 for a 10ft Surf stick
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 16, 2017, 03:53:10 AM
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on November 16, 2017, 03:40:43 AM
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 12, 2017, 07:04:27 PM
Quote from: natch! on November 12, 2017, 06:47:06 PM
Excuse me for going somewhat off-topic, but, are the Abu Revo 2 SW's essentially the same as the Clash?
Jack
Yes and no. They use a similar (dimensions likely differ) machined aluminum gear for the guts.
However, the frame and side-plate arrangement is very different plus other details (ie spool design etc).
Very good light reels for near shore applications.
John can I ask you to compare the Slammer to the Saragosa for surf casting work?
Slammer III v. Spheros (no need to get a Saragosa for the Surf) a Slammer is a beefier and tougher reel, imo. Far more capable with more drag and tougher gears....but that doesn't necessarily make it a better surf reel, unless fishing for Roosters or other Jacks that pull like hell. Slammer III is a reel to fight real bruisers with.
Spheros however is very, very good for the coin, very smooth and refined and I can't hesitate to recommend it. But it just doesn't have the nuts of the Slammer III on big fish. But that really isn't a big deal until south of the border or maybe Florida etc for Tarpon. Nothing in northern waters can really hurt a Spheros until well offshore.
FWIW Clash is a different kettle of fish altogether. Much lighter build than either and not as sealed. Better for casting all day if it meets your sealing needs. Clash top of the pinion assembly is sealed (most problematic area for splashes) but the body has no sealing.
I hate to bring up AH again ,,but he points out that Penn Put a bearing for the spool to ride on,,but being it sits on the spool shim it's rendered inoperable...is this true?
Scattergun, I would like to hear about that too. And anything else from clash owners. The good, the bad and the ugly!
Really would appreciate you clash owners speaking up. Am reel shopping and the best information sources are those that have been there, done that.
Ive had one 3000 sized Clash reel. I could never get it quiet. I sold it. I haven't worked on many either. In my are this means not many people use them. I live where spinning reels are used more than any other reel.
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on November 17, 2017, 09:06:02 AM
I hate to bring up AH again ,,but he points out that Penn Put a bearing for the spool to ride on,,but being it sits on the spool shim it’s rendered inoperable...is this true?
I'm sorry but I saw this and had to laugh lol.
Penn uses this concept in at least 5 different models sold in like 8 different sizes each, but AH gets one early production 8000 size reel with the under-spool shim like a thousandth of an inch out of spec and people assume and extrapolate it to be true in something like 100,000 reels sold that all use different size shims...? AND it had no effect on function in his case nor could he tell whether it in fact functioned anything other than normally in actual use....I just don't understand why people think this would apply to every Clash reel?
The under or inner spool bearings used in dozens of different reels made by any number of makers reduces binding under heavy load...BUT, some question its utility, particularly in lighter reels for smaller models that never see real loads like a true big game spinner. Others say that it increases smooth performance of the drag throughout the range...but its something very difficult for any user to actually test...all modern reels have extremely smooth drags (and generally it is salt intrusion that causes a modern drag to be sticky).
Scattergun, AH is the guy that compared the weights of an 8000 size clash (500 yards of 65# braid) to a Spheros 10k (300 yards of 65# braid or nearly 50% smaller reel capacity) to say the Clash was a "heavy reel" because their drag ~27lbs is close to the same (and more than most even know how to use).
This is like saying you can only compare the weight of a Spheros 10k (25oz) to a Stella 5k (15oz) because their drags have the same rating? Boy that Spheros is sure heavy?????
WTFover? one is a tiny nearshore size/trout reel, the other is a large capacity offshore spinning reel that you would never purposely buy for the same fish but you should compare their weights? No, reels are compared side by side capacity to their weight.
If anyone doesn't think this is purposely done to satisfy some agenda of his then either 1. AH is not as smart as he thinks he is...or 2. I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you...and 3. AH is very good at pulling the wool over your eyes.
AH can be awesome or have amazing blind spots. He also says that he doesn't think that bearings in/around spools of any kind work or smooth out drags because "the job of the drag is to create friction" with apparently no consideration for smoothness under load...clearly a blogger knows more than the Engineers at Abu Garcia, Daiwa, Okuma, Penn, Shimano or Zebco (Van Stall/Fin Nor) that all use bearings in their spool designs with combined sales of like $10 Billion yearly worldwide....Thank god for AH?
Quote from: handi2 on November 18, 2017, 04:38:03 PM
Ive had one 3000 sized Clash reel. I could never get it quiet. I sold it. I haven't worked on many either. In my are this means not many people use them. I live where spinning reels are used more than any other reel.
I have seen some with quite a bit of "knock" is that what you mean, Keith?
Quote from: handi2 on November 18, 2017, 04:38:03 PM
Ive had one 3000 sized Clash reel. I could never get it quiet. I sold it. I haven't worked on many either. In my are this means not many people use them. I live where spinning reels are used more than any other reel.
Thanks. Not many used ones on eBay, which tells me either people really like them, or there are not many out there.
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 18, 2017, 04:50:09 PM
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on November 17, 2017, 09:06:02 AM
I hate to bring up AH again ,,but he points out that Penn Put a bearing for the spool to ride on,,but being it sits on the spool shim it's rendered inoperable...is this true?
I'm sorry but I saw this and had to laugh lol.
Penn uses this concept in at least 5 different models sold in like 8 different sizes each, but AH gets one early production 8000 size reel with the under-spool shim like a thousandth of an inch out of spec and people assume and extrapolate it to be true in something like 100,000 reels sold that all use different size shims...? AND it had no effect on function in his case nor could he tell whether it in fact functioned anything other than normally in actual use....I just don't understand why people think this would apply to every Clash reel?
The under or inner spool bearings used in dozens of different reels made by any number of makers reduces binding under heavy load...BUT, some question its utility, particularly in lighter reels for smaller models that never see real loads like a true big game spinner. Others say that it increases smooth performance of the drag throughout the range...but its something very difficult for any user to actually test...all modern reels have extremely smooth drags (and generally it is salt intrusion that causes a modern drag to be sticky).
Scattergun, AH is the guy that compared the weights of an 8000 size clash (500 yards of 65# braid) to a Spheros 10k (300 yards of 65# braid or nearly 50% smaller reel capacity) to say the Clash was a "heavy reel" because their drag ~27lbs is close to the same (and more than most even know how to use).
This is like saying you can only compare the weight of a Spheros 10k (25oz) to a Stella 5k (15oz) because their drags have the same rating? Boy that Spheros is sure heavy?????
WTFover? one is a tiny nearshore size/trout reel, the other is a large capacity offshore spinning reel that you would never purposely buy for the same fish but you should compare their weights? No, reels are compared side by side capacity to their weight.
If anyone doesn't think this is purposely done to satisfy some agenda of his then either 1. AH is not as smart as he thinks he is...or 2. I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you...and 3. AH is very good at pulling the wool over your eyes.
AH can be awesome or have amazing blind spots. He also says that he doesn't think that bearings in/around spools of any kind work or smooth out drags because "the job of the drag is to create friction" with apparently no consideration for smoothness under load...clearly a blogger knows more than the Engineers at Abu Garcia, Daiwa, Okuma, Penn, Shimano or Zebco (Van Stall/Fin Nor) that all use bearings in their spool designs with combined sales of like $10 Billion yearly worldwide....Thank god for AH?
You laughing at me or Alan?
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on November 19, 2017, 03:58:44 AM
You laughing at me or Alan?
I am not laughing at anyone. :)
I am laughing at the
idea that one reel in a reviewers hand with a simple nylon washer 1/1000th of an inch out of spec (that has zero affect on function as the bearing would turn fine when needed) would be extrapolated to an entire line of reels with 7 different sizes.
No one should reasonably think that should be true.
Fundamentally, it is what someone interested in a factual and objective presentation would clearly state in a review: "This is what I found on the reel in my hand. Without examining dozens of reels all I can say is I got a reel with a 1 cent washer (that doesn't affect function) out of spec that I fixed with 10 seconds of sanding just because. YMMV."
Notice that AH never made any effort to demonstrate that the spool/drag functioned abnormally (because it wouldn't). And the same guy thinks bearings shouldn't be there anyways, with the spool turning on a simple spindle. So he makes an argument that it is some kind of a problem, but in fact it functions more like he thinks it should anyways.
I also think that is funny. :D
And the issue has never been heard from since, until now. ;)
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 19, 2017, 04:55:32 AM
Quote from: Scattergun2570 on November 19, 2017, 03:58:44 AM
You laughing at me or Alan?
I am not laughing at anyone. :)
I am laughing at the idea that one reel in a reviewers hand with a simple nylon washer 1/1000th of an inch out of spec (that has zero affect on function as the bearing would turn fine when needed) would be extrapolated to an entire line of reels with 7 different sizes.
No one should reasonably think that should be true.
Fundamentally, it is what someone interested in a factual and objective presentation would clearly state in a review: "This is what I found on the reel in my hand. Without examining dozens of reels all I can say is I got a reel with a 1 cent washer (that doesn't affect function) out of spec that I fixed with 10 seconds of sanding just because. YMMV."
Notice that AH never made any effort to demonstrate that the spool/drag functioned abnormally (because it wouldn't). And the same guy thinks bearings shouldn't be there anyways, with the spool turning on a simple spindle. So he makes an argument that it is some kind of a problem, but in fact it functions more like he thinks it should anyways.
I also think that is funny. :D
And the issue has never been heard from since, until now. ;)
I did find it hard to believe that Penn could make a huge design flaw...but I am new to this,so that`s why I ask..I`m just asking questions,not implying that AH is right,and people here are wrong,I hope everyone here understands that.
Yea, you just have to understand for all of AH's knowledge he can go off the deep end on stuff that simply doesn't matter sometimes or is contradictory to opinions he has previously posted.
After awhile nearly everyone knows to take the solid information from any review for what its worth to themselves and leave the nit-picking.
But I am a very "glass half full" sort of guy in that regard.
And you have to realize its no "huge design flaw" lol (I laugh because AH presents it like "OMG" when its nothing, so not surprised a newbie thinks that it was some kind of big deal).
Best
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 19, 2017, 05:52:55 AM
Yea, you just have to understand for all of AH's knowledge he can go off the deep end on stuff that simply doesn't matter sometimes or is contradictory to opinions he has previously posted.
After awhile nearly everyone knows to take the solid information from any review for what its worth to themselves and leave the nit-picking.
But I am a very "glass half full" sort of guy in that regard.
And you have to realize its no "huge design flaw" lol (I laugh because AH presents it like "OMG" when its nothing, so not surprised a newbie thinks that it was some kind of big deal).
Best
I am curious,,which other Penn reels have that same setup?
Battle, Battle II, Conflict, Conflict II, Clash.
You can see the simpler straight brass spindle in the Sargus and Pursuit (less expensive reels).
Abu Garcia, Daiwa, Fin Nor, Okuma, Quantum, Shimano, Van Staal et al use bearings in/under the spool too, albeit more commonly inside the spool rather than mounted on the shaft, but the same principle, just arranged differently.
Buncha freshwater co's do too in more expensive reels, but I really don't care about them to trouble to list them.
best :)
Do they actually work as bearings in those other reels or do they just act as bushings like in the Clash?