I was just sent this reel today, from a guy in Florida- the cranking was rough, loud and stuttery- so much I only turned it a few times before opening it up. Looks to have those fancy new affordable stainless 4;1 gears that are being sold on Ebay. The slot in the pinion for the yoke- tolerance is too tight, I can barely slide the end of the pinion into the slot- my other pinions work fine with his yoke, my other pinions no want to fit into his pinion's slot........
not sure how to proceed, I think he should get seller to send him a new pinion or set. i can use a fine stone and relieve it ever so slightly but i'd rather he got what he paid for before paying me to make them right
I guess these gears are made in Taiwan by an "injector manufacturer"
I hate to hear it. I put a set in a 113h wide and other than being a little noisy they seem fine. I hope the seller makes it right. Bob
I see what problem is- the smaller teeth closest to the collar each have a burr on the leading edge from when they were cut. Its like each one had razor thin edge that folded over.......bad batch I guess.
I popped mine in here:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/015-10.jpg)
Idid not have that issue, I was actually impressed with the way they were machined, but do not have a bunch to compare :-\, I only purchased one set.
The reel is working nicely though.
SS on SS gears tend to be noisy and feel "grity".
Quote from: Joel.B on February 05, 2013, 01:08:06 AM
The slot in the pinion for the yoke- tolerance is too tight, I can barely slide the end of the pinion into the slot-
I'd rather have it tight and then hand fit it with a file.
Quote from: Keta on February 05, 2013, 01:40:01 AM
SS on SS gears tend to be noisy and feel "grity".
Quote from: Joel.B on February 05, 2013, 01:08:06 AM
The slot in the pinion for the yoke- tolerance is too tight, I can barely slide the end of the pinion into the slot-
I'd rather have it tight and then hand fit it with a file.
As would I but this is not just "tight" the burrs are cutting into the yoke and you cant even turn the pinion with your fingers when on the yoke. Wife is getting me the "macro" lens and I will try to snap a pic of the issue in a moment
Does not sound good.
QuoteI'd rather have it tight and then hand fit it with a file.
I'd prefer to have it perfect to begin with. :D
OK now I can also clearly see that the pinion teeth are plated in some kind of foil and the plating is coming off
has anybody actually fished these gears and then cleaned and inspected them afterword?
I think the main gear is fine but don't think these pinions will hold up to much use at all. The material is very light and soft, and whatever they are plated in has not even held up to being installed and tested.........
if you look at the pics in the ebay listing, zoom over the pinion, you can see the one in that pic is almost as bad as this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-1-HIGH-SPEED-STAINLESS-STEEL-GEAR-SET-PENN-113H-4-0-PRO-GEAR-ACCURATE-NEWELL-/360583264281?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53f46ff819
I copied the picture so I could zoom it, I didn't see anything. You can only zoom a little, it gets out of focus quickly. Can you take a shot so we can see what you're talking about?
I measured and weighted the gears before installing them, if I remember correctly, the pinion was a little heavier that the accurate pinion, the main gear was exactly the same. I have pictures and notes somewhere, but can't find them.
I've got old eyes so I couldn't see anything either. I haven't fished mine yet. I guess the real test will be afterward when I open it up. Bob
I took pics but can't get close enough to capture the burrs. I actually determined that it is the "plating" that is folding over the top of the tooth
if you look at 2nd and 3rd pic in the listing, use the ebay mouse-over zoom feature and look at the very tip of the bottom short teeth of pinion, they are almost as burred as these. If you look at same spot on Penn/Newell/Accurate gears it is a clean cut
when I zoom these in my picasa file I can see the problems..
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/Bigjfb/IMG_3696_zps4865d6a8.jpg)
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/Bigjfb/IMG_3695_zps1a1090be.jpg)
I believe that the problem with this gear set is the SS material. The seller should never use 304 graded SS. It is just too soft SS for fishing reel.
I dont think the pinion and main gear are same material :-\
The main gear should be softer than the pinion.
OK, took this with help of magnifying glass and flashlight- here you see the coating coming off and buggered splines in the groove
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii298/Bigjfb/be81fb9d-6ec7-4e97-9ec7-8fa39e3fce65_zps42a05fc1.jpg)
Nice shot Joel, now I see what you're talking about. I'm not really concerned about the burrs, looks like that one got missed form getting cleaned. The finish peeling off got me worried, Why would the plating be there :-\
Looks like we might have contact this guy, even if the gears look good, I'm not crazy about that plating. If any of you that have purchased these gears and didn't install them yet, would you mind checking them out? I hate to take that reel apart again.
every single on of those short splines is burred so severely on top inside the channel for the yoke- that the yoke barley fits in there and can barely be turned. I believe that the "burrs" are actually the foil-like coating folding over top of the spline, I dont know if you can see it but there is a dull core with the shiny outer coating, and you can see that same dull core peeking through up that one spline.....
The pinion looks plated, not SS.
Yes, definitely plated- that is the word I needed.
The plating is the issue IMO, and no idea what the material is underneath it
Put a grinder on it and see if it sparks orange.
Quote from: Keta on February 05, 2013, 09:25:08 PM
Put a grinder on it and see if it sparks orange.
I would but these are not mine and the owner wants to send them back so I have to leave them alone.....
otherwise I would happily sacrifice these for the greater good
If the guy is not using SS pinion gear, that will be very bad for him. I can tell you that he probably has these gears made in China. He his making a killing for around $53.00 (after paypal and Ebay fees) on these 304 SS main gears and whatever material for the pinion gears.
Quote from: Keta on February 05, 2013, 09:25:08 PM
Put a grinder on it and see if it sparks orange.
Okay Lee it's about time for you to become proffessor Lee. Tell what would it mean to see orange sparks? In your answer I want to know what the chemical changes taking place that make the sparks orange? Come on take the challenge and run with it. ;) Dominick
Steel sparks orange, SS white.
I'll have to look, possibly oxidation.
An hour ago I couldn't even spell metallurgist, now I are one....Oxidation of the elements that make up the alloy.
Quote from: Pescachaser on February 06, 2013, 04:18:16 AM
Quote from: Keta on February 06, 2013, 04:12:31 AM
Steel sparks orange, SS white.
Yeah, but why?
I believe it has to do with carbon burning (sparks). SS has much less carbon so it doesn't spark. Hardenable SSs do spark, however.
Quote from: Joel.B on February 05, 2013, 01:08:06 AM
I guess these gears are made in Taiwan by an "injector manufacturer"
I would not fit Chinese/Taiwanese ball bearings to my reels nor would I fit their gears either. Lack of QC leads to premature failure.
Would be interested to see what the eBay seller has to say about these gears. Without a guarantee/warranty its money down the drain..
"Pay peanuts get a monkey" :'(
There has to be a reason why that pinion has been plated and it doesn't look good :-\.
When I was checking these gears out, I noticed that the pinion was a little heavier than the accurate pinion, the main gear was spot on.
Is plain steel heavier than ss :-\.
Quote from: Irish Jigger on February 06, 2013, 10:11:28 AM
Quote from: Joel.B on February 05, 2013, 01:08:06 AM
I guess these gears are made in Taiwan by an "injector manufacturer"
I would not fit Chinese/Taiwanese ball bearings to my reels nor would I fit their gears either. Lack of QC leads to premature failure.
Would be interested to see what the eBay seller has to say about these gears. Without a guarantee/warranty its money down the drain..
"Pay peanuts get a monkey" :'(
That might be the case Tom, but i feel bad for the seller that got involved. Fortunately for us, we are protected...."IF" the pinion isn't stainless steel.
Plated ss pinions?
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 06, 2013, 11:15:34 AM
Is plain steel heavier than ss :-\.
SS is usualy slightly heavier.
Quote from: Irish Jigger on February 06, 2013, 12:17:26 PM
Plated ss pinions?
Tom, not related to this pinion, but yes ss can be plated. There are some that have more money than they know what to do with it. Those are the ones that are looking for a flawless mirror finish on their ss parts. They can't get it out of ss, so they get them plated. I'm sure it's not cheap.
From what i've learned, there aren't many shops that do it, but there are some.
All I can hear is blah, blah.... when a person is talking about something is bad when it is made in China or Taiwan.
Even AVET is made in the USA, some parts inside are made in China.... AVET's CNC machines are made in China, so I guess people should not buy AVET.....
It is a fact that a lot of things are made in China this day, you just need to deal with it.
Play nice fellas ;D.
Hi there, I can tell you how to a simple way to make sure whether the gears are made of SS or alloy steel. Just use a magnet if it is SS it would never stick to the gears. If Alloy Steel or even Chrome Steel they will be moved to the magnet.
If you had this reel here in Egypt, we could have figured out a solution for both gears for less than you paid in epay. Try to find someone specialist in making cogs and pinions. they may change both of them and ask him to use a case hardening Steel for both cogs. This is as far as I know.Many Thanks for all of you. :)
400 series SS is magnetic.
Penn anniversary ss gears stick to magnets, never seen rust on those
penn baja special ss gears stick to magnets, can't tell you if they rust...never used them, but I wouldn't think so
newell ss gears stick to magnets, seen lots of rust on those
accurate ss gears don't stick to magnets, never seen rust on those
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 07, 2013, 03:57:57 PM
Penn anniversary ss gears stick to magnets, never seen rust on those
penn baja special ss gears stick to magnets, can't tell you if they rust...never used them, but I wouldn't think so
newell ss gears stick to magnets, seen lots of rust on those
accurate ss gears don't stick to magnets, never seen rust on those
As Lee points out, the 400 series SSs do rust and it's because of the high carbon content in the alloy. This also makes the steel hardenable, and capable of being quite a bit harder than other SSs, especially those in the 300 series. The 440, for example, is often used in making knife blades by even some top end companies. None of those companies would think of using a 300 series SS for knives (although some of the real cheapie kitchen and utility knives made by others probably are), and while the application is different, the factors for considering them do have similarities (wear resistance, ability to hold an "edge", toughness, resistance to corrosion, etc).
Essentially, all SS have a trait known as "work hardening". That is, as the surface is worn it becomes hard. For example: You try to cut SS with a dull blade and give up after 1/2 hour because you're getting nowhere. You see the groove, but it's taking you so long to make any progress that you know there's something wrong. This is the result of "work hardening". What makes this trait a good things in fishing reel gears is that those gears will take longer to wear under normal circumstances (e.g., reeling up bait, cranking in lures, bringing in small fish, etc).
The advantage a 300 series SS has over the 400 is that the 300 has better corrosion resistance. The 400s, with the higher carbon content, will rust more. This is not to say that it will rust like non-SS.
The advantage the 400 series SS has over the 300 is that it can be harder and tougher. Consequently, there is less chance that the gears will get stripped or too severely worn on (a) very large fish being fought with very tight drag. Even though all SS will work harden, this only happens to the surface of the metal, and if the pressure is too great, the whole tooth will fatigue/fail at whatever the rated strength is. You will see this either as the tooth breaking (usually not with SS but with other hardened steels), or severely smashed up against the next tooth. If you see a tooth really messed up against the next, and if there was no manufacturing defect involved, that would suggest that the material the gear was made with was inappropriate for the anticipated load.
The final point, on the overly long post, is the answer to why aren't all fishing reel gears made with SS and, specifically, 400 series SS. It's the same answer as why they are not all made with brass/bronze, aluminum alloy, or plastic: First, SS costs more, regardless of whether it's 300 of 400. Second, machining SS is more difficult that bronze/brass. Third, machining hardened SS (the 400 series kind) is even more difficult (the smaller the part, the more difficult). Yes, the 400 SS can be had in the annealed (softened) state and be easy to machine. However, that would require another step of then hardening and tempering the steel to the proper hardness after machining, involving more time and cost.
Contrary to what we might hope or want to believe, reel manufacturers do not make reels for a select few (unless maybe you're like Everol). They design and make reels for the majority of user who will encounter the majority of fish. Those on this Forum likely are not part of that "majority" but, rather, a smaller group of people who want and expect much more performance from their reels than what comes out of the box. That being the case, the components also cannot be made from the same materials as what is suitable "for the majority". The components must be made of better materials and must be made better. Guess what, you get what you pay for. If you see "imperfections" on the gears (as has been pointed out), and if they fall short in terms of performance (at least the noise, as has also been pointed out), you did get what you paid for.
Maybe paying $100 for a
good set is sounding more reasonable?
I would like somebody to work these gears and then report back
i'd like to think that this set is from a bad run, and that good gears can be had for $60
I dont want to buy some for myself and have them shred while I am in Baja
Quote from: Joel.B on February 07, 2013, 09:24:24 PM
I would like somebody to work these gears and then report back
i'd like to think that this set is from a bad run, and that good gears can be had for $60
I dont want to buy some for myself and have them shred while I am in Baja
Neither does anyone else ::)
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 07, 2013, 10:08:42 PM
Quote from: Joel.B on February 07, 2013, 09:24:24 PM
I would like somebody to work these gears and then report back
i'd like to think that this set is from a bad run, and that good gears can be had for $60
I dont want to buy some for myself and have them shred while I am in Baja
Neither does anyone else ::)
Yeah but you already bought and installed them so you should go fish them hard ASAP and report back.......i'd do it for you
but I am poor and have no gears to test so.........
I am going to get pics of this Newell pinion next to the Ebay pinion (is there even a maker name to assign?) will make observations and take notes.........
I happen to have 2 sets of the ebay 4:1 gears and was installing them as part of rebuilding 2 113h's today so this topic is quite timely. I found that they are smooth when I use the original yoke, but bind when I use the new ss yoke. Maybe some tolerance shifted slightly on the ss yokes? Or the original pinions had a slightly wider slot?
(I have some lapping compound and may try that as a solution, despite the recent kerfuffle regarding abrasive, premature wear, etc. I do see some roughness in the way the slot is cut in the pinion, btw.)
Just my 2 cents, but I will have my reels apart for a while if someone wants me to check anything. (I have to replace a couple of sticky bearings.)
Not necessarily the gears, I had that issue with the ss yoke on 4/0's and 6/0's a few times. If you look closely you will notice that one side of the ss yoke has a soft edges while the other side sharp.
Flip that yoke and see what happens. I usually buff them on my buffing wheel.
Quote from: wolvie on March 17, 2013, 10:27:34 PM
I happen to have 2 sets of the ebay 4:1 gears and was installing them as part of rebuilding 2 113h's today so this topic is quite timely. I found that they are smooth when I use the original yoke, but bind when I use the new ss yoke. Maybe some tolerance shifted slightly on the ss yokes? Or the original pinions had a slightly wider slot?
(I have some lapping compound and may try that as a solution, despite the recent kerfuffle regarding abrasive, premature wear, etc. I do see some roughness in the way the slot is cut in the pinion, btw.)
Just my 2 cents, but I will have my reels apart for a while if someone wants me to check anything. (I have to replace a couple of sticky bearings.)
can you get a feeler-gauge and check the tolerances of the slot?
did you get a good look at the inside edges of the teeth in the slot?
Ok some images. I will have to see if I can dig up my feeler gauges . . .
Excuse the quality - depth of field is lousy at this magnification and photography is not my forte.
There does seem to be some plating chipping off. But one edge is much rougher than the other.
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131258355411149.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131447355520022.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131453355526200.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131500355532924.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131525355558009.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131801355714883.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131752355705430.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131806355719439.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318132255356008664.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131157355349903.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131202355355005.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131407355480398.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131408355480913.jpg)
(http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/wolvieweb/130318131408355481241.jpg)
Wow, that's very good and clear photos. Thanks for the heads up.
I wondering if they are actually using Stainless Steel if they are plating the gears...
I filed down the burrs and other gunk (probably plating) with a nail file and now it fits fine and turns freely. It is a tighter tolerance than my other ss sets, so we'll see how it works out. The plating does worry me, as I do not see the point in plating it if it is ss. I won't be able to fish with it for a couple of weeks, so someone else may have quicker results. But I will try to beat on it and then take it apart again to see how it held up.
Still did not find my feeler gauges - maybe tomorrow.
I also sent some feedback to the ebay seller, to see how he responds.
You have a nice camera Wolvie ;). Mine would probably do the same, but I just don't know how to set it ;D. Well it isn't really mine, it's my wifes. Wait when she gets it back, thanks to you guys it now loaded with grease :o. I'll probably tell her that is was a little stiff ;D.
This is what I came up with.
I just removed the gears from the reel, they were working nicely, no issues what so ever. here is what I found by removing the grease
from the pinion with a toothpick
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/parsts%20an%20such/006-10.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/parsts%20an%20such/013-7.jpg)
Lots of flakes,. The pinion has definitely been plated, don't ask me why, it just don't know.
The main gear is stainless steel and the pinion appears to be the same, but not sure. I put a magnet to both and they did not stick.
I also did a little test on how hard the material is.... thanks for the tip Tom.
These ebay gears feel very similar to the Accurate, very close in every way, even in density. The only difference is with the plating.
These gears were tested by me , but not on the water, the teeth look fine on both.
I believe the roughness that you've showed us is from the plating, I used a tighter yoke and forced the pinion to go around by hand and more flakes came out.
Here are a couple of more shots of the gears
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/parsts%20an%20such/009-12.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/parsts%20an%20such/012-6.jpg)
Sal
Sorry, I was going to post morepictures, but photobucket changed things around and I'm having a tough time downloading them.
My guy told me that this pinion gear is SS 303 or 304. There is some kind of coating on it.
He is scratching his head about that.
WOW those are some nice pics!!!!
Has anybody put these gears to work yet?
I imagine that plating will really come off after some real-world use and get ground into fine particles that may find their way into places you wont want them
Joel, didn't do no REAL-WORLD test, but as you can see above the plating did really come off. there isn't much left on the pinion, except for the bottom part.
Now,I actually don't believe that the pinion was plated, maybe a metal reaction from their process. the flakes break up easely by pressing on them with a blade. Here is another shot of the flakes without the grease
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/parsts%20an%20such/005-15.jpg)
Either way, it shouldn't have happened. Did my reel stop working or did I notice any difference in functionality? No, I did not.
As I mentioned above, I did put the gears to a test, the only thing left now is to give them a real tast on the water. Maybe one of you California boys can help out with this. Winter is back, here in the NE and my fishing is very limited at the moment, I have kids in college. :'(
Sal
The machine work looks rough and I do not like the plating flaking off, it will cause premature gear wear.
Like I've said in past posts, these gears are WAY inferior to the Accurate Gears (in so many ways.) Please don't compare them... you're putting real engineers using quality materials in the same category as hack machinists using sub standard materials (glad to see it's finally surfacing), whos just churning them out to take your money. Accurate made a quality product and I know as I have had 9 gear manufacturers tell me so. I wouldn't waste my time and money sending that ebay gear to anyone. I have to say that I'm a little surprised more of you guys don't see the differences, as most are seen by the naked eye. I will not be trusting that pinion on any fishing trip as it needs no testing (it will fail at some point soon)... anyone wanna buy my unused set from me now? Seriously it's here if there are any takers... you can have it for $50 and I'll ship to the lower 48 for free.
All the best,
Dom
Quote from: broadway on March 19, 2013, 03:57:06 PM
Like I've said in past posts, these gears are WAY inferior to the Accurate Gears (in so many ways.) Please don't compare them... you're putting real engineers using quality materials in the same category as hack machinists using sub standard materials (glad to see it's finally surfacing), whos just churning them out to take your money. Accurate made a quality product and I know as I have had 9 gear manufacturers tell me so. I wouldn't waste my time and money sending that ebay gear to anyone. I have to say that I'm a little surprised more of you guys don't see the differences, as most are seen by the naked eye. I will not be trusting that pinion on any fishing trip as it needs no testing (it will fail at some point soon)... anyone wanna buy my unused set from me now? Seriously it's here if there are any takers... you can have it for $50 and I'll ship to the lower 48 for free.
All the best,
Dom
Hey Dom,
I guess I should charge my new 316 gear set higher....
Alan
Has anyone who purchased these gears contacted the seller? Would be interesting to get his side of the story. "Pay peanuts get a monkey" ;)
Alan,
You can keep the price at $60 for now and then see how it goes. "If you build it (properly) they will come" I look forward to seeing a quality gear set produced by one of our own. I know you're not doing this for the money, but for the contribution to the fishing community. That's not to say you're not entitled to make a buck ;)
When do you think you'll have them for us to play with?
Thanks
Dom
Tom,
I wouldn't bother contacting the seller as he already knows he's screwing us. Also, do you know how he thought of doing these gears to begin with? ...he didn't, he listened in on us, and I hope he can here us now, too. >:(
Dom
Quote from: broadway on March 19, 2013, 04:28:28 PM
Alan,
You can keep the price at $60 for now and then see how it goes. "If you build it (properly) they will come" I look forward to seeing a quality gear set produced by one of our own. I know you're not doing this for the money, but for the contribution to the fishing community. That's not to say you're not entitled to make a buck ;)
When do you think you'll have them for us to play with?
Thanks
Dom
No, I think $55.00 is fine. Have you checked the latest updated on that thread (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6259.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6259.0))?
The first 17 sets will be here (FL) on Thursday (03/21/2013). I did play with the first set. Everything is very good. I will send out a set to Sal for testing before send out the rest to the members.
Hi,
I did contact the ebay seller:
--------------------- my message
Dear bugsconnection,
I purchased 2 sets of these and have been trying to get them to work but the pinion gear slot seems to be too narrow for the yokes. Looking closely it appears that the slot is not uniform, one side seems very rough - it looks like some burr or type of plating on the pinion is preventing it from turning freely in the yoke. I have tried several different yokes, but the results are the same and my other pinion sets, both ss and standard, do not exhibit this issue. Can you tell me if this was a bad run or there is some remedy?
--------------------- reply
Hi,
Thanks for your purchase and I am sorry to hear this. Yes, we did plating the pinion gear for durability purpose which might cause the problem from turning freely on the yoke.
If you feel comfortable with tools, you can use a small file to smooth the groove on the pinion gear it will solve the problem or please send them back (just the pinion gears) and I will replace them free of charge. Please let me know, thanks.
Once again I appreciate your business and sorry for the inconvenience.
Regards,
Kuojui
--------------------- end
I wish I had caught the thread about gears available here before I made my ebay purchase and my preference is to return them for a refund. I will let you know how it goes.
Cheers,
David
Dom,I understand you being upset, so am I.
This is a pretty simple process. If the seller doesn't cooperate, all we need to do is to open a case with paypal .
I will be sending him a picture of the pinion.
Sal
PS. My gears did not fail from my test, my test of lifting dead weight is hard on gears. I would still like to return them, simply because of the flaking.
Quote from: wolvie on March 19, 2013, 04:46:00 PM
Hi,
I did contact the ebay seller:
--------------------- my message
Dear bugsconnection,
I purchased 2 sets of these and have been trying to get them to work but the pinion gear slot seems to be too narrow for the yokes. Looking closely it appears that the slot is not uniform, one side seems very rough - it looks like some burr or type of plating on the pinion is preventing it from turning freely in the yoke. I have tried several different yokes, but the results are the same and my other pinion sets, both ss and standard, do not exhibit this issue. Can you tell me if this was a bad run or there is some remedy?
--------------------- reply
Hi,
Thanks for your purchase and I am sorry to hear this. Yes, we did plating the pinion gear for durability purpose which might cause the problem from turning freely on the yoke.
If you feel comfortable with tools, you can use a small file to smooth the groove on the pinion gear it will solve the problem or please send them back (just the pinion gears) and I will replace them free of charge. Please let me know, thanks.
Once again I appreciate your business and sorry for the inconvenience.
Regards,
Kuojui
--------------------- end
I wish I had caught the thread about gears available here before I made my ebay purchase and my preference is to return them for a refund. I will let you know how it goes.
Cheers,
David
I think this ebay seller is reading this posting. He gave you the same method as you posted in reply #46 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6363.msg56921#msg56921 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6363.msg56921#msg56921))
Sal,
I noticed the flaking on the first day I got it, but I felt like I was ranting too much because I had a lot of personal time and some money invested in bringing quality gears to the market, so I shut up. I'm way less knowledgable than most of you on here which is why I knew you guys would see the issues in short order.
Now that you know the seller plated the parts (thanks David) you have to ask yourself that very important next question... WHY?!
I have a good idea... inferior materials coupled with a lack of precision. Platings hide imperfections well and are a feeble attempt at protecting metal when used improperly or in the case of fishing gears where the plating is sure to receive high wear. Does anyone have any pinions or main gears that are plated in their reels? Not mine >:(
I have enough Newell and Accurate to last my lifetime so I'll just wait until someone does it right to buy for the next generation or just to marvel at a bit ;)
Thanks
Dom
Anyone familiar with metals would notice the plating but it takes a trained eye.
This is mostly out of curiosity, rather than constructive to a resolution, so take it for what it is worth.
I am not up on plating methods, so maybe someone can fill me in: It looks to me like the plating was done after the slot was cut in the pinion. I am confused why the teeth on one side of the slot are nice and sharp but on the other side, all gunked up. It looks like it was dipped into something. Is that a plating method?
Lee,
How I found it was I scratched it with a house key very easily because I saw the crackling. I probably could have used my finger nail it came off so easily.
I'm no metal guy or anything but a parking lot supervisor and a passionate fisherman.
Dom
Dom, We all have our strong points and things we learn where our lives take us. What we know does not make us any better than anyone else, what we do does.
Quote from: wolvie on March 19, 2013, 07:07:10 PM
Is that a plating method?
No
Thank's David and Dom. Good to know the seller is aware of the problems.
The seller agreed to a return, so I will be shipping them back and adding 2 more sets to my Black Pearl order.
Same here ;)
He has been a gentleman about it.
He mentioned that the gears have been tested for a year and none failed, except for the thin plating coming off.
Sal
Quote from: wolvie on March 20, 2013, 04:40:29 PM
The seller agreed to a return, so I will be shipping them back and adding 2 more sets to my Black Pearl order.
Guys,
I have been thinking if you bought a set or more sets from the Ebay seller before 03/20/2013, and you return and receive your refund. I will sell you the 316 SUS set for $44.00. If you have bought 2 sets, you can purchase 2 sets from me for $44.00. Of course, you have to show me the refund email from PayPal for that transaction.
Please note the price does not apply for the first 17 set batch.
I hope this will make you guys little happier.
Thanks,
--Alan
Saving my pennies for when you get the 114H or 500 sets done. Thanks for making these available for us Alan.
I just wanted to add that I took apart the reel I put these gears in tonight. I haven't fished this reel yet. I did spool it with line. My pinion does not look as bad as some of the pics here, but I still have lots of pieces of the plating coming off. I will be contacting the seller.
I don't understand how putting plating on the pinion that easily flakes off could be for "durability." I am concerned about metal getting into things like open spool bearings. It looks like everything will get cleaned up and relubed. I hope the seller reads this thread. I will probably send a link in my communication.
Bob
Alan,
I can't get a refund for mine from the seller, but I look forward to your contribution to the AT members.
Nice gesture as well,
Dom
Quote from: Cone on March 21, 2013, 02:18:22 AM
I just wanted to add that I took apart the reel I put these gears in tonight. I haven't fished this reel yet. I did spool it with line. My pinion does not look as bad as some of the pics here, but I still have lots of pieces of the plating coming off. I will be contacting the seller.
I don't understand how putting plating on the pinion that easily flakes off could be for "durability." I am concerned about metal getting into things like open spool bearings. It looks like everything will get cleaned up and relubed. I hope the seller reads this thread. I will probably send a link in my communication.
Bob
Put your pinion in nitric acid for a few minute to remove the plating then in a strong baking soda solution to neutralize the acid.
No need to send him a link... he's a lurker! That's why he produced the gears in the first place. He tried to beat some of us who were trying to produce quality USA made gears (takes time to do) to the punch, so I don't feel he's owed anything. If he wants he can pay me the $725 that I shelled out for shipping to manufacturers for quotes and for analysis and testing.
Glad to see someone doing the right thing like Alan is, what goes around comes around Mr Kuojoi! :o
Sal, with all due respect, since when is it okay for someone to test a product, notice a problem, but sell it any way. Gentleman??? or con artist???
He got what he deserved for selling us that crap in the first place!
If you really wanna know how I feel send me a PM ;)
Dom
Quote from: broadway on March 21, 2013, 02:34:20 AM
If he wants he can pay me the $725 that I shelled out for shipping to manufacturers for quotes and for analysis and testing.
Add $200 in gas for me too.
Lee, I wouldn't know where to get nitric acid around here. Hydrochloric acid is common but I've never seen nitric acid anywhere here. Would Hcl work? Bob
Quote from: broadway on March 21, 2013, 02:34:20 AM
No need to send him a link... he's a lurker! That's why he produced the gears in the first place. He tried to beat some of us who were trying to produce quality USA made gears (takes time to do) to the punch, so I don't feel he's owed anything. If he wants he can pay me the $725 that I shelled out for shipping to manufacturers for quotes and for analysis and testing.
Glad to see someone doing the right thing like Alan is, what goes around comes around Mr Kuojoi! :o
Sal, with all due respect, since when is it okay for someone to test a product, notice a problem, but sell it any way. Gentleman??? or con artist???
He got what he deserved for selling us that crap in the first place!
If you really wanna know how I feel send me a PM ;)
Dom
Dom, I'm sure a few of us have been there before.
I said he was a gentleman on how he handled my issue with the gears. I'm not going to judge him as a person. I'm simply going to return the gears to him and be done with it.
I believe that me Lee and a few others here have wasted way more than $725 from testing parts, but who's counting ;D.
I understand you being upset and I thank you for all that you've done for us buddy, but we need to move on with this one.
Sal
Quote from: Cone on March 21, 2013, 03:11:42 AM
Lee, I wouldn't know where to get nitric acid around here. Hydrochloric acid is common but I've never seen nitric acid anywhere here. Would Hcl work? Bob
Yes but a bit slower. Be careful, don't drop the gear in and wear goggles.
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 21, 2013, 03:13:24 AM
Dom, I'm sure a few of us have been there before.
I said he was a gentleman on how he handled my issue with the gears. I'm not going to judge him as a person. I'm simply going to return the gears to him and be done with it.
I believe that me Lee and a few others here have wasted way more than $725 from testing parts, but who's counting ;D.
I understand you being upset and I thank you for all that you've done for us buddy, but we need to move on with this one.
Sal
I have a pile of "mistakes" but it's my doing. Not enough to reci yet though.
Quote from: Cone on March 21, 2013, 03:11:42 AM
Lee, I wouldn't know where to get nitric acid around here. Hydrochloric acid is common but I've never seen nitric acid anywhere here. Would Hcl work? Bob
Here you go Bob, you can make your own:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Nitric-acid-The-Complete-Guide/
Some of the gadgets that he's showing look familiar, my brother used to make his own Grappa ;D
I suspect the outfit that made the Ebay gears is one that my contact in China was dealing with - he said they make fuel-injectors among other things, and Ebay seller confirmed to me that the people making the gears make injectors and such.... I dunno..
A few years ago I was trying to get some simple parts made of tungsten, for a really good piece of "fishing gear" I knew I could sell the #$%^% out of........I was tight lipped for a long time about what I need the part for, I would not tell my AMerican contact why I needed it- but then I caved and told him, he immediately cut off contact and in less than two years I see my idea being sold by Bass Proshops.......and they totally missed the boat on it anyway.... missed the concept of why the tungsten was important....whatever
I gave away the hundreds or so I made by hand in my shop - people were begging for more so I showed them how to make them......people are catching fish and having fun, being poor is not all that bad really......
The Ebay seller seems that he is not selling that 304 gear set on Ebay anymore. I think he is keeping his eye on this site.
It sure is funny that the ebay seller reads our postings but with all of our comments he still hides behind a computer screen. Good things happen to good people, there is another side to that cliche, and it applies here!
Lurk away kuoiji!
Thanks for the quality product Alan!
Dom
We will never know. The Ebay seller might be working on improving his gear set or working on a 114H gear set.
Quote from: Black Pearl on April 06, 2013, 03:15:23 PM
We will never know. The Ebay seller might be working on improving his gear set or working on a 114H gear set.
He needs to drastically improve the quality first to compete with the BP gears.
I doubt that, Alan... Who's gonna buy from him again... Keep producing the quality I've seen from you and he won't waste his time. I wouldn't consider him a threat to your business at all.
Dom
Quote from: broadway on April 06, 2013, 04:51:51 PM
I doubt that, Alan... Who's gonna buy from him again... Keep producing the quality I've seen from you and he won't waste his time. I wouldn't consider him a threat to your business at all.
Dom
Competition not only good for business, but also it is good for consumer.
Anyway, have you checked out Sal latest requested? http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6774.msg58505#msg58505 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6774.msg58505#msg58505)
Yes I have and I want one set from the test run.
Just replied to that thread and of course I'm in on that new and improved gear!
Dom
The Ebay seller is back with more gear sets on sale.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360649367346?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/360649367346?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649)
Alan,
He's probably selling the gears that were all sent back, or he likes to lose money... not sure
Dom
How is this guy getting away with selling these crappy gears and still has 100% feedback?
SH, I bought a set of gears from him. When I received them they looked fine. I did take the reel apart when I saw the post about the plating. There were metal flakes everywhere. I contacted him and he did refund my money. I had already left good feedback when I received them. I don't know if feedback can be changed after a certain amount of time.
He did do the right thing and accepted the gears back so I probably wouldn't have changed it. I do know the Pro Challenger gears from Black Pearl are much better gears and less expensive too. I will buy BP's gears in the future and I expect this guy to have a hard time selling his when the word gets out. Bob
He got me too, read this post earlier so I go and open my 113h and flakes all over the place. Just contacted bugsconnection told him i want my money back. he hasn't Replied yet but hopefully I get my refund.
He hasn't responded back to me either, though I was the first to call him out on his shoddy gears!
Glad to see you're not letting him get away with selling you his trash.
Stay on him... I certainly will!
Dom