It seems like almost every day someone asks "What is a PUM conversion?", "Why do it?", or "Where do I find parts?" The first two questions are easily answered...the third one is a bit tougher. A PUM conversion is simply a spinning reel without a bail. Some surfcasters and folks who toss heavy baits prefer this setup, to prevent the bail slamming shut during a cast. As far as finding the needed parts, eBay is "hit or miss", sometimes you'll see lots of conversion kits offered, other times nothing. These NOS kits bring a premium too. Even worse, most reels don't have conversion kits even offered, so what do you do?
Well...before flaming out over it...you can easily mod a junker reel for peanuts...just to "test drive" a bailess reel. I have home brewed PUM conversions that work equally as well as my high priced factory conversions. Then if you like it, you can confidently spend more on one. There are even a few modern new spinners offered with a manual pickup. One of the things I love most about the manual pickup is you can say goodbye to line twist. I'm guessing the action of the bail closing must twist line, because none of my bailess reels have line twist issues.
I bought this trashed Zebco XB75 because it's the first one I've seen come up for sale in ages. These are fantastic reels, and I wish I had a mint shelfie, but this old gal is gonna have to do for now. As you can see from the first pic, the bail is busted. A perfect candidate to go under the knife! ;D
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49788537166_a054406bf8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iRDguA)
The Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel is perfect for removing the busted bail.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49788852902_1733ca3435_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iRETmj)
Use a fine stone or sanding wheel to smooth the cut off bail.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49788852872_17b41fedd6_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iRETkN)
Same thing on the opposite end. You'll notice most factory manual pickups have a large exaggerated end, like it is needed to keep the line on the roller. Maybe so for some forms of fishing...but I've never had any issues keeping the line on these stock pickup "hacks". The least bit of tension on the line pulls it to the lowest part of the pickup...that is the center of the line roller.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49788852792_46b55d9426_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iRETjq)
Depending on your reel's design, sometimes a washer is needed under the screw(red arrow) to lock the bail arm cam(blue arrow), to hold back the bail arm lever.(yellow arrow)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49788852597_29edab195c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iRETg4)
I also had to fashion a new drag clicker.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49787997073_a6217f594f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iRAuWD)
Looking at these parts all cleaned up you should be able to see why I like these XB series Zebcos. The large brass gears are a rare sight in a 70s Japanese reel. The coil spring assisted three stack drag is nice too, as is the absence of plastic parts. :o
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49788536946_9c42e108d8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iRDgqN)
Hopefully this post will help folks who are on the fence about trying a manual pickup reel. By performing this hack on a broken reel you won't bruise your wallet, and you'll return an otherwise useless mess to service. Every reel wants to be fished. 8)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49788852637_3c3a6d1e8c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iRETgK)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49788536816_33a14d0f92_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iRDgoy)
Good job, photos, and explanation, Mike --
That is how it's done folks!
Best,
Fred
Yes very nice! But I'm more interested on that main gear.
Do I see teeth on top and bottom, or are my eyes playing a trick on me?
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 18, 2020, 03:38:43 PM
Yes very nice! But I'm more interested on that main gear.
Do I see teeth on top and bottom, or are my eyes playing a trick on me?
Sal
Correct Sal...there are teeth on both sides...but the teeth on the back side are for the anti-reverse. Although I prefer an AR system on the pinion, ahead of the gear mesh, this setup has a
bunch of teeth. There is near zero backplay, it sounds like a buzzsaw when you crank the handle! Here's a pic of the AR side of that gear. 8)
Look`s like teeth for the anti reverse. TO late posting
I have one made on a quick 330 .
One of the things I love most about the manual pickup is you can say goodbye to line twist. I'm guessing the action of the bail closing must twist line, because none of my bailess reels have line twist issues.
I can see were it may help with wind knots ,because you look down to put the line on the pin. Line twist , I think comes from bait helicoptering or reeling against the drag .
Can you give me a little more insight , because i do suffer with line twist .
Quote from: mo65 on April 18, 2020, 03:02:58 PM
One of the things I love most about the manual pickup is you can say goodbye to line twist. I'm guessing the action of the bail closing must twist line, because none of my bailess reels have line twist issues.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on April 18, 2020, 04:05:27 PMI can see were it may help with wind knots, because you look down to put the line on the pin. Line twist, I think comes from bait helicoptering or reeling against the drag. Can you give me a little more insight, because i do suffer with line twist.
There are many things that cause line twist, like you mentioned, the helicoptering and reeling against the drag. I also see a lot of line twist when my trolling swivels crap out. Those are all things we can "watch out for" and control. I read once that the cycling of the bail causes line twist...and I think it indeed does...because that is the one factor I couldn't "watch out for"...and when I eliminated it I eliminated twist! 8)
Good job, Mo ! I may have to try it ! I have *a few* spinners in my "someday box" that have broken, or missing bails.
Quote from: Crow on April 18, 2020, 04:30:22 PM
Good job, Mo ! I may have to try it ! I have *a few* spinners in my "someday box" that have broken, or missing bails.
Thanks Crow! Yes, those old dogs with broken bails can be resurrected easily. Many reels with issues casting heavy weights can get a new lease on life with the PUM conversion. This 306 Mitch in the first photo was one that would lock up on a cast and...SNAP...6 dollars worth of terminal tackle flying into the sunset! The kit to convert this model is a stock Mitchell part, and they often come up for sale NIB. There are kits for others too, like the 302 Mitch and the 700/704 Penn. Or if you have deep pockets...pick up a Mitch 498 shown in the second pic. :o
Quote from: mo65 on April 18, 2020, 03:58:27 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 18, 2020, 03:38:43 PM
Yes very nice! But I'm more interested on that main gear.
Do I see teeth on top and bottom, or are my eyes playing a trick on me?
Sal
Correct Sal...there are teeth on both sides...but the teeth on the back side are for the anti-reverse. Although I prefer an AR system on the pinion, ahead of the gear mesh, this setup has a bunch of teeth. There is near zero backplay, it sounds like a buzzsaw when you crank the handle! Here's a pic of the AR side of that gear. 8)
Very smart, that is a nice size gear, there wouldn't be much back play with the handle.
This is the first I've seen.
About the bailess, I rather have the bail on my fishing reels.
If you haven't fished without it before, it takes a lot of getting used to.
The ONLY advantage I see going without it is that it will save your favorite lure.
Most times you will lose a lure when the bail malfunction and closed on its own.
By the way, I always close my bail by hand, just something I got used to... and that's a good thing.
Thanks Mo!
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 18, 2020, 06:01:13 PM
If you haven't fished without it before, it takes a lot of getting used to. Most times you will lose a lure when the bail malfunction and closed on its own. By the way, I always close my bail by hand, just something I got used to... and that's a good thing.
Thanks Mo!
It must depend on the user...for me it was a natural. I'd never hack the bail off a fully functional reel...this post was aimed at folks who want to try it and have busted candidates lying around waiting. And like you...I prefer a reel that allows you to close the bail manually. If you like the looks of that XB series Zebco check out this post for a better look at the reel's inner workings. 8)
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=29870.0
You are correct Mo, I'm not taking anything away from your thread and sorry if it seemed as I was.
You always do good work, along with a good explanation and some great pics.
Sal
Mo, you certainly have a knack for inventiveness and finding diamonds in the rough!
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 18, 2020, 06:35:33 PM
You are correct Mo, I'm not taking anything away from your thread and sorry if it seemed as I was.
You always do good work, along with a good explanation and some great pics.
Sal
Oh no Sal...I understand what you meant. I've fished with guys who didn't like the bailess set up...you're not alone. Thank you for the compliments...I really appreciate it!
Well done, Mike, nice explanation.
As far as line twist, I think the biggest culprit is reeling against the drag. I've never understood why people get so excited that they forget to quit cranking when the fish is taking out line. ??? Bad swivels with untuned lures also causes a lot of twist, as do those silly newfangled slow death crawler rigs. I prefer to jig my live bait rigs while trolling, mainly because I fish a lot of walleye & keeping contact with the bottom is crucial.
I'm not a PUM kind of guy but if I was I would prefer a conical style pickup like this one I added to a broken bail Silent awhile back. Sal sent me the Penn bail that I adapted. Thanks again. Sal! :)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/26/17004_18_01_19_3_39_30_26903886.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/26/17004_18_01_19_3_39_42_2690955.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/26/17004_18_01_19_3_39_44_269112390.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/26/17004_18_01_19_3_39_45_269122406.jpeg)
Quote from: Midway Tommy on April 18, 2020, 06:58:34 PM
I'm not a PUM kind of guy but if I was I would prefer a conical style pickup like this one I added to a broken bail Silent awhile back. Sal sent me the Penn bail that I adapted. Thanks again. Sal! :)
I see a lot of those conical pickups cut off like that Tommy. It approaches the half bail design. Nice save on that cool old reel! 8)
Really nice work Mo. I have resorted to a PUM when I am not able to get a worn out bail assembly to slam shut or stay open and new parts are not available.
Once again, when you open the bail and loops come off the spool there is 360 degrees of twist for each loop. That is 360 degrees of twist for every four to five inches of line (depending on the spool diameter). You will be able to tolerate this amount of twist. When you close the bail and crank the handle there is 360 degrees of twist in the other direction for every revolution of the rotor. It is twist and un-twist in a steady state all day without accumulating twist.
When you finally hook a nice one and the fish runs against the drag it is taking line off the spool without twisting it. When that line is retrieved the bail/rotor adds twist and these accumulate. A long back and forth tug-of-war will accumulate a lot of extra twists. Cranking the handle against the drag does the same thing and they accumulate.
The line roller does not add or remove twists and makes no difference.
When twists accumulate to the point where slack line will start to coil up on itself and tangle, then it is time to manually remove the excess twists by dragging the line behind a boat or something.
It's the same when coiling and uncoiling a garden hose. When you unpack a new hose that has been coiled tightly you should roll out the hose instead of pulling off loops or it will be a twisted mess and difficult to use.
-steve
When you finally hook a nice one and the fish runs against the drag it is taking line off the spool without twisting it. When that line is retrieved the bail/rotor adds twist and these accumulate. A long back and forth tug-of-war will accumulate a lot of extra twists.
I believe this is were i accumulate a lot of line twist . I like tug of war . After a game is when the line cork screws around the rod tip.
That 498 is gorgeous! I have a blue 99 and would love a 499 pro. Yes, I understand that hen's teeth are for sale down the road.
Bail or no bail has ever made much difference to me unless I am throwing a lure. Shimano's QuickFire II is my favorite set up for that.
The Man
Quote from: Ron Jones on April 18, 2020, 11:23:24 PM
That 498 is gorgeous!
No doubt...wish that bad boy was mine...prolly worth more than my entire collection! :D
I had to raise the pickup a bit on this one, like many smaller reels, the pickup is pretty close to the spool. Raising it allows room to get your finger under it. The red arrow points to the stack of flat washers I used to accomplish this task...very high tech stuff...:D!!
P.S. Could a Moderator sticky this post? Everyday someone asks basic questions about PUM mods...this thread answers a lot of those questions. 8)
Sticky done, Mike —
Great photos and explanations.
Best, Fred
Thanks Fred!
Cool! How'ed you get the bail-arm screw to stay down with all those washers? Low tech. is usually the best tech., and often, for me, my only tech. option.
Quote from: Gfish on July 26, 2021, 04:49:29 PM
Cool! How'ed you get the bail-arm screw to stay down with all those washers? Low tech. is usually the best tech., and often, for me, my only tech. option.
I know G...you'd think it would never be long enough...but it had several threads of length to grab ahold. I guess many reels probably wouldn't have a long enough screw. Actually, not many folks would be modding a reel this small to a manual pickup. Most folks do this on a reel big enough to get your finger under the pickup without issues.
But...this may help them in the right direction if they do need finger room. 8)